Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Melek, Izzet Paragon Oona, Queen of the Fae Bruna, Light of Alabaster Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Rhys the Redeemed Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord Sen Triplets The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Assuming Wurmcoil Engine is only reprinted in one of the decks, how much do you expect it's price to go down?
Unlikely not enough to be worth buying as a single if there are other singles in the deck you want. I expect Chaos Warp to be reprinted and I want both and Feldon and Sol Ring.
Baleful Strix is probably the best comparison in terms of value from the last commander products. It was around 18 before the Commander 2013 was announced and has steadily dropped since. Now you can get it for 3-5 bucks. Wurmcoil Engine was around 18 before the announcement and has already dropped to 13-14 on tcg. My guess is that Wurmcoil will settle around 6-7 bucks in a few months.
It sounds strange, but I actually like that they've removed the Phyrexian watermark for the Commander reprint. For flavor reasons, some decks that want Wurmcoil are pretty far removed from New Phyrexia in terms of flavor.
Wait....tuk-tuk is the red reprint legend? Like, arguably the worst red legend ever printed as a commander?
I don't really care I suppose, but that's just a bizarre choice. Why would they make the red reprint legend so unimaginably bad when there are plenty of choices that would have been fine?
Something's gotta give. If the reprint legend was Godo, Kiki-Jiki, Jeska, hell anything good, it'd be too good both at $value$ and play value.
Wait....tuk-tuk is the red reprint legend? Like, arguably the worst red legend ever printed as a commander?
I don't really care I suppose, but that's just a bizarre choice. Why would they make the red reprint legend so unimaginably bad when there are plenty of choices that would have been fine?
Something's gotta give. If the reprint legend was Godo, Kiki-Jiki, Jeska, hell anything good, it'd be too good both at $value$ and play value.
Having 1 valuable-ish mythic doesn't mean the deck is OP or anything. It's still just 1 card in the deck. You won't even see it most games. It does make the deck a lot more valuable but it doesn't make it a lot more playable, just a bit more playable. Red needs help anyway.
Drana is the black legend - she's not worth anything but she's perfectly capable as a pilot. This deck could have used almost any other red legend and it would have been fine. Kiki would have been excessive but why not ashling? why not kumano? Why not kamahl? Why not anyone other than Tuktuk?
It's not just that they reprinted a bad legend. They reprinted nearly THE WORST COMMANDER OF ALL TIME.
Wait....tuk-tuk is the red reprint legend? Like, arguably the worst red legend ever printed as a commander?
I don't really care I suppose, but that's just a bizarre choice. Why would they make the red reprint legend so unimaginably bad when there are plenty of choices that would have been fine?
Something's gotta give. If the reprint legend was Godo, Kiki-Jiki, Jeska, hell anything good, it'd be too good both at $value$ and play value.
I don't understand this statement. Yeah...including Kiki would add too much $$$ value...I guess? (the last precons DID have P3K cards that were incredibly expensive, though far less playable than Kiki and the originals were absolutely crammed full of value). But Jeska and Godo would add too much $$$? Godo is like $3 and ol' Tuktuk's token is worth more than Jeska. I've never heard that a precon can have too much play value (what does that even mean?). Though I think Jeska is about as boring and lame as Tuktuk. At least Tuktuk has synergy with Feldon, which is probably why he was picked (still a disappointing choice. It didn't even register with me that Tuktuk was the red legendary for the deck until now).
Imagine Feldon resurrecting Kamahl or Godo every turn. Imagine that along the Wurmcoil and most probably Inferno Titan, Incendiary Command, Red Sun Zenith and Dualcaster Mage.
And we don't even know who the general will be.
It's less about the value and more about the deck not being too strong out of the box so that two newbies to the format have a good time playing their decks against each other and get hooked, instead of one burning the other to death and neither getting hooked.
Imagine Feldon resurrecting Kamahl or Godo every turn. Imagine that along the Wurmcoil and most probably Inferno Titan, Incendiary Command, Red Sun Zenith and Dualcaster Mage.
And we don't even know who the general will be.
It's less about the value and more about the deck not being too strong out of the box so that two newbies to the format have a good time playing their decks against each other and get hooked, instead of one burning the other to death and neither getting hooked.
Ok. I read your statement about $$$ and went to check Godo because I thought he had suddenly spiked in price without me knowing or something. I agree that Godo probably wouldn't be a good choice just for the extra combat phases every turn. Personally, I would have liked to have seen Dong Zhou, the Tyrant. Obscure red legend with an interesting ability that combines very well with Feldon.
Imagine Feldon resurrecting Kamahl or Godo every turn. Imagine that along the Wurmcoil and most probably Inferno Titan, Incendiary Command, Red Sun Zenith and Dualcaster Mage.
And we don't even know who the general will be.
It's less about the value and more about the deck not being too strong out of the box so that two newbies to the format have a good time playing their decks against each other and get hooked, instead of one burning the other to death and neither getting hooked.
Ok. I read your statement about $$$ and went to check Godo because I thought he had suddenly spiked in price without me knowing or something. I agree that Godo probably wouldn't be a good choice just for the extra combat phases every turn. Personally, I would have liked to have seen Dong Zhou, the Tyrant. Obscure red legend with an interesting ability that combines very well with Feldon.
So much this. So now there's no chance to see him reprinted in there?
Dong zhou is $$$. Ofc the price would crash if he were reprinted though. Anyway last commander release was "the p3k commander release". Putting in just 1 reprint here would be weird.
repeated kamahl wouldn't be that bad. It's just a repeatable 3-mana lightning bolt. compared to wurmcoil that's nothing. Godo would be pretty strong ofc but I don't think the deck is going to have Swords of X and Y or anything hugely powerful that would break him.
Jeska is way, way, WAAAY better than tuktuk as a commander. And I say that knowing that jeksa isn't very good. Tuktuk is unimaginably bad. He is seriously among the all-time worst commanders ever printed. As a card he's mediocre, but as a commander he is bad beyond all mortal reckoning.
If they want a mediocre card in the deck that's fine, but making tuktuk the alternate legend means basically the deck only has 2 feasible options for the commander, because tuktuk is just so terrible. I don't care THAT much, but it is kind of weird. There were so many reasonable options. Why pick THE WORST?
Because he combos with Feldon in a way, when Feldon is the commander?
Dong Zhou isn't really $$$, he's only $$$ because he's rare as hell. Look at the prices of the portal reprints that did happen. Ah well, there goes that. In that case they probably won't reprint Imperial Recruiter either. There goes that too. Off to sulk in my sulking dome, with wurmcoil as a tiny bit of comfort.
It also seems they have a Zendikar theme going on. Nahiri and Ob Nixilis are both from Zendikar, and now we know Drana and Tuk Tuk are in, and all basic lands in Ob's deck are ZEN. Maybe we're seeing Lorthos, Livala, Thada Adel, Omnath or Iona as the reprint legend in the other three.
Maybe not and we just got shafted by the worst legend just because (Even Kazuul is much better).
Maybe the planeswalker makes him awesome in some strange way.
Because he combos with Feldon in a way, when Feldon is the commander?
Only sort of. The token is legendary so you still can't do better than 1 5/5.
He would make perfect sense IF he wasn't one of the optional commanders. Maybe he's not, it's possible they'll put in someone else too, but that would break the mold. But if he is the alternative red commander...massive facepalm.
A shame that Tuk-Tuk wasn't Jaya Ballard, instead.
Why are we presuming that the token art used means cards from sets where said tokens first appeared? Luminarch Ascension makes 4/4 angels and is a house in MP games, for example.
Awesome about Wurmcoil.
Cheers!
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If in the area, check out Gamers N Geeks and Mini War Games in Mobile, Alabama and Underhill's Games in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio.
It also seems they have a Zendikar theme going on. Nahiri and Ob Nixilis are both from Zendikar, and now we know Drana and Tuk Tuk are in, and all basic lands in Ob's deck are ZEN.
RETURN TO ZENDIKAR CONFIRMED.
It does seem like whoever worked on these decks loved Zendikar. A linvala reprint would be nice, but sadly if it happened that would probably mean that a lot of other white EDH staples that desperately need reprint have no chance due to value. I only run Linvala in one of my decks and she never does much, so I'd much rather see stuff like Land Tax, Enlightened Tutor, Elesh Norn....though at this point it doesn't seem like any of those are going to happen.
if WOTC reprints expensive rare cards in some unlimited supply constructed decks, whats the purpose of collecting them? Will these rare cards will be fun to collect?
I've noticed that Wizards has been much more concerned with increasing supply than keeping collectors happy. Unless a card is on the Reserved List, don't expect that Wizards won't reprint it in an unlimited supply constructed deck. Coursers and Nykthos in the M15 Clash Pack, Thoughtseize in Theros, Mutavault in M14, Remand in Jace vs. Vraska, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in M15. Heck, Liliana of the Veil was originally planned to be in M15 until they deemed her too powerful for the current Standard environment. They've realized that there's far more money to be made from reprinting high demand cards in current products to drive sales. And it works. Look at the Fetches in Khans. The prices of every other single in the set will settle artificially lower than if they weren't in the set because so many people are cracking packs to get them.
Basically, you should only hold onto cards that you are playing with or have sentimental value to you. Don't save cards because you think that they will go up in value. Wizards finally grasped the concept that they were printing money, and have decided to go all in on it.
@orlouge82 but then they run the chance of scaring off collectors and hurting the game like chronicles nearly did (just playing devil's advocate here).
That being said, I like this re-print mainly cause it benefits everyone. @ingunis Commander is an unlimited print run, however since there is only one wurmcoil per box and you need to actually buy the commander box (whichever one it will be in) to get it, stores will adjust prices depending on demand (similar to mindseize and TNN and how it started out really high when demand for TNN was crazy and now is low now that demand is lower) thus preventing the secondary market from flooding out. The wurmcoil price drop atm is over-reaction from the community similar to how Liliana dropped to $50 when the promo PTQ Liliana was spoiled yet has climbed back to $60 and continues to go back to where it was before (I live in Canada so prices are different but the trend is probably the same).
Current owners of wurmcoil lose out in the short term but wont really see a change long term as the demand for wurmcoil will always been high due to it's popularity in eternal formats (ie R/G Tron in modern) and the people who actually wanna play with it in commander get a good value and have a nice money card to trade if they want to change their stock commander deck around
Besides this Economics talk, I am excited to see what deck it is in, hoping it is in red, and get it and see what parts I can add to my Kaalia deck
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
did you even check the links?
Just a piece of friendly advice:
DON'T buy cards when they are about to announce a bunch of reprints.
I've been burned more than once by that.
As for Wurmcoil- called it! I'm glad it uses the original art since I only have promos.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
It sounds strange, but I actually like that they've removed the Phyrexian watermark for the Commander reprint. For flavor reasons, some decks that want Wurmcoil are pretty far removed from New Phyrexia in terms of flavor.
UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU's prison: blue is the new orange is the new black.
BSidisi, Undead VizierB: Bis zum Erbrechen
GTitiania, Protector Of ArgothG: Protecting Argoth, by blowing it up!
GYisan, The Wanderer BardG: Gradus Ad Elfball.
Duel EDH: Yisan & Titania.
In Progress: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV duel; Grenzo, Dungeon Warden Doomsday.
Something's gotta give. If the reprint legend was Godo, Kiki-Jiki, Jeska, hell anything good, it'd be too good both at $value$ and play value.
Drana is the black legend - she's not worth anything but she's perfectly capable as a pilot. This deck could have used almost any other red legend and it would have been fine. Kiki would have been excessive but why not ashling? why not kumano? Why not kamahl? Why not anyone other than Tuktuk?
It's not just that they reprinted a bad legend. They reprinted nearly THE WORST COMMANDER OF ALL TIME.
Mostly it's just weird.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Trades
Pucatrade with me!
(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
And we don't even know who the general will be.
It's less about the value and more about the deck not being too strong out of the box so that two newbies to the format have a good time playing their decks against each other and get hooked, instead of one burning the other to death and neither getting hooked.
Ok. I read your statement about $$$ and went to check Godo because I thought he had suddenly spiked in price without me knowing or something. I agree that Godo probably wouldn't be a good choice just for the extra combat phases every turn. Personally, I would have liked to have seen Dong Zhou, the Tyrant. Obscure red legend with an interesting ability that combines very well with Feldon.
Trades
Pucatrade with me!
(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
So much this. So now there's no chance to see him reprinted in there?
repeated kamahl wouldn't be that bad. It's just a repeatable 3-mana lightning bolt. compared to wurmcoil that's nothing. Godo would be pretty strong ofc but I don't think the deck is going to have Swords of X and Y or anything hugely powerful that would break him.
Jeska is way, way, WAAAY better than tuktuk as a commander. And I say that knowing that jeksa isn't very good. Tuktuk is unimaginably bad. He is seriously among the all-time worst commanders ever printed. As a card he's mediocre, but as a commander he is bad beyond all mortal reckoning.
If they want a mediocre card in the deck that's fine, but making tuktuk the alternate legend means basically the deck only has 2 feasible options for the commander, because tuktuk is just so terrible. I don't care THAT much, but it is kind of weird. There were so many reasonable options. Why pick THE WORST?
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Dong Zhou isn't really $$$, he's only $$$ because he's rare as hell. Look at the prices of the portal reprints that did happen. Ah well, there goes that. In that case they probably won't reprint Imperial Recruiter either. There goes that too. Off to sulk in my sulking dome, with wurmcoil as a tiny bit of comfort.
Maybe not and we just got shafted by the worst legend just because (Even Kazuul is much better).
Maybe the planeswalker makes him awesome in some strange way.
He would make perfect sense IF he wasn't one of the optional commanders. Maybe he's not, it's possible they'll put in someone else too, but that would break the mold. But if he is the alternative red commander...massive facepalm.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Why are we presuming that the token art used means cards from sets where said tokens first appeared? Luminarch Ascension makes 4/4 angels and is a house in MP games, for example.
Awesome about Wurmcoil.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
RETURN TO ZENDIKAR CONFIRMED.
It does seem like whoever worked on these decks loved Zendikar. A linvala reprint would be nice, but sadly if it happened that would probably mean that a lot of other white EDH staples that desperately need reprint have no chance due to value. I only run Linvala in one of my decks and she never does much, so I'd much rather see stuff like Land Tax, Enlightened Tutor, Elesh Norn....though at this point it doesn't seem like any of those are going to happen.
Trades
Pucatrade with me!
(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
I've noticed that Wizards has been much more concerned with increasing supply than keeping collectors happy. Unless a card is on the Reserved List, don't expect that Wizards won't reprint it in an unlimited supply constructed deck. Coursers and Nykthos in the M15 Clash Pack, Thoughtseize in Theros, Mutavault in M14, Remand in Jace vs. Vraska, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in M15. Heck, Liliana of the Veil was originally planned to be in M15 until they deemed her too powerful for the current Standard environment. They've realized that there's far more money to be made from reprinting high demand cards in current products to drive sales. And it works. Look at the Fetches in Khans. The prices of every other single in the set will settle artificially lower than if they weren't in the set because so many people are cracking packs to get them.
Basically, you should only hold onto cards that you are playing with or have sentimental value to you. Don't save cards because you think that they will go up in value. Wizards finally grasped the concept that they were printing money, and have decided to go all in on it.
That being said, I like this re-print mainly cause it benefits everyone. @ingunis Commander is an unlimited print run, however since there is only one wurmcoil per box and you need to actually buy the commander box (whichever one it will be in) to get it, stores will adjust prices depending on demand (similar to mindseize and TNN and how it started out really high when demand for TNN was crazy and now is low now that demand is lower) thus preventing the secondary market from flooding out. The wurmcoil price drop atm is over-reaction from the community similar to how Liliana dropped to $50 when the promo PTQ Liliana was spoiled yet has climbed back to $60 and continues to go back to where it was before (I live in Canada so prices are different but the trend is probably the same).
Current owners of wurmcoil lose out in the short term but wont really see a change long term as the demand for wurmcoil will always been high due to it's popularity in eternal formats (ie R/G Tron in modern) and the people who actually wanna play with it in commander get a good value and have a nice money card to trade if they want to change their stock commander deck around
Besides this Economics talk, I am excited to see what deck it is in, hoping it is in red, and get it and see what parts I can add to my Kaalia deck