Yeah, this is a great card. More people need to run spells to deal with lands. LD isn't bad, MLD isn't bad, bad decks are bad. If your deck is so narrow that one land hoses it completely, you need to build a better deck or at least add in a Strip Mine/Ghost Quarter/Wasteland/Encroaching Wastes/Dust Bowl/Tectonic Edge/Spreading Seas/etc, etc, etc.
This doesn't even "hose" Hexproof Commanders. It hinders them, sure, but it hardly hoses them. Losing Hexproof/Shroud only matters if somebody has spot removal in hand. There have been many times when I don't even tutor for Diplomatic Immunity for Zur because the decks I'm playing don't run enough spot removal, or I have other counter measures such as Vanishing.
Now if this said something like "shuffle all opponents' creatures with Hexproof/Shroud into their library" then yes, it would be unfair.
The sheer amount of people bloo blooing about a single card that sometimes lets people conditionally interact with their Solitaire play is absolutely hilarious to me, but then again you don't play hexproof/shroud commanders to ensure everyone at the table has fun.
Putting a bad hate card in a deck that needs colored mana like most 3 colored decks is not a good idea. Saying that spotlight is irrelevant is kind of offsetting too, since you can sac it to GIVE YOUR OWN DUDES HEXPROOF AND NOT BE BLOCKED. You say alpha strikes, I can't think of much better than this to compliment the attack.
Cards exist to counteract dominating or back breaking deck ideas. Making this a land is fine. Get over the fact that your own deck is now affected. It happens.
While I agree that cards with this ability are good for the game, I think there should have been a higher cost for activation, possibly with sacrificing as part of the cost. Or perhaps a colored cost so it wouldn't be such an auto-include in all but the most color intensive of decks.
While I agree that cards with this ability are good for the game, I think there should have been a higher cost for activation, possibly with sacrificing as part of the cost. Or perhaps a colored cost so it wouldn't be such an auto-include in all but the most color intensive of decks.
QFT. At least Homeward Path didn't produce mana...
It's just bad if an entire strategy is hosed so hard with little to no cost to the player with these lands. Who ever thought Jester's Cap would become a chase card...
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Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Were Mind Control effects RUINED FOREVER and became UNPLAYABLE JANK when Homeward Path was printed?
Stop overreacting guys. Besides, utility lands that don't produce color aren't a "staple" in 3+ color decks.
With that said, I find it hilarious you can "turn off" Shroud for some other player so he can enchant it with stuff. Politics!
Mind Control-effects that are continuous like Control Magic doesn't care about Homeward Path, so it doesn't hose all those effects that effectively. All other fragile control-forms are not really viable atm - one reason is that card.
I think Arcane Lighthouse hoses a bit too effectively. For instance it could be worded as Glaring Spotlight so it only works for the activating player. Another could be a slightly higher cost.
Effectively it's the same as a land that says "Prevent all but 2 damage from target (legendary) creature" - just to hose large beater commanders and reduce their effect.
While I agree that cards with this ability are good for the game, I think there should have been a higher cost for activation, possibly with sacrificing as part of the cost. Or perhaps a colored cost so it wouldn't be such an auto-include in all but the most color intensive of decks.
QFT. At least Homeward Path didn't produce mana...
Were Mind Control effects RUINED FOREVER and became UNPLAYABLE JANK when Homeward Path was printed?
Stop overreacting guys. Besides, utility lands that don't produce color aren't a "staple" in 3+ color decks.
With that said, I find it hilarious you can "turn off" Shroud for some other player so he can enchant it with stuff. Politics!
Mind Control-effects that are continuous like Control Magic doesn't care about Homeward Path, so it doesn't hose all those effects that effectively. All other fragile control-forms are not really viable atm - one reason is that card.
I think Arcane Lighthouse hoses a bit too effectively. For instance it could be worded as Glaring Spotlight so it only works for the activating player. Another could be a slightly higher cost.
Effectively it's the same as a land that says "Prevent all but 2 damage from target (legendary) creature" - just to hose large beater commanders and reduce their effect.
Control Magic effects are affected by Homeward Path. They're both control granting effects, so you go by timestamps. And since Homeward Path was likely activated most recently, it's the effect that 'wins', so control is granted to the owner. Mind Control stays on the creature, but it's effect is superseded, similarly to how two mind controls on the same creature works.
all i know it i preordered 2 playsets, let the hype commence
Also throwing them in mono or dual color decks isnt really an issue, but a tricolor deck i would definitely pass.
Umm, I play a lot of cards in mono-colored decks (like Caged Sun, Gauntlet of power, stuff like beacon of Creation, Skred, every single black card ever especially Cabal coffers-like cards etc) that profit from very high number of basics respectively colored mana (e.g. Firebreah-effects). Actually, quite often those cards are the reason I want to play monocolored. I already have a lot of lands that are better and produce colorless mana; this will be far from an auto-include.
Didnt say anything about auto-including. Also if your running black it will almost always be a swamp from that urborg you tutored.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
All other fragile control-forms are not really viable atm - one reason is that card.
I think Arcane Lighthouse hoses a bit too effectively.
Effectively it's the same as a land that says "Prevent all but 2 damage from target (legendary) creature" - just to hose large beater commanders and reduce their effect.
1. Helm of Possession is amazing.
2. This card is not even close to how irritating Maze of Ith is for targetable voltrons.
3. This card is not comparable to Maze of Ith as far as playability because it is very narrow.
4. It does not even do anything to the Hexproof/Shroud creature, just opens them for something else to have an effect.
It will get played if the meta requires it and thereby makes it valuable enough, otherwise it will be replaced by more relevant lands.
Of course random noobs will play random lands while they learn what they are doing. Expect this land to see some play then slowly disappear just like Homeward Path did.
Those cards seem just like a contingency plan to keep such strategies from ever being truly viable. If people pick up the archtype and it becomes "routine" in your environment, you add this land and problems solved.
My problem is how effective it is. For a minimum of investment you remove a core strength from certain decks.
I agree that Hexproof is an annoying and sadly poorly created mechanic, but that doesn't mean it should just get an effective and relatively easy solution to deal with it. At first I thought Glaring Spotlight was a rather poor design to make hexproof utterly useless but I could see how it became a necessary evil - nonetheless an evil to deal with a degenerate mechanic.
To me, that's as lazy a design as a 1 or 2 mana enchantment or artifact that says:
"Creatures can always be blocked by creature who could block." - granted the wording is not elegant, play along.
It would render Flying, Intimidate/Fear, "Unblockable" (why were you removed my dear friend?) and Protection useless as a combat evasion.
Imagine the worth of True-Name Nemesis if it could just get blocked by a X/4+ creature with this lazy permanent on the board?
4. It does not even do anything to the Hexproof/Shroud creature, just opens them for something else to have an effect.
This so much. The fact that it doesn't do anything on its own pretty much keeps it from being too hard of a hoser, besides the fact that there are plenty of answers to it or the subsequent removal spell. Compare it to Wave of Vitriol against a colorless commander.
Being able to negate an ability is commonplace. Just because hexproof/shroud is a strong ability that is naturally hard to interact with does not mean that having some sort of counter to it is too strong, any more than reach is overpowered against flying.
A creature has hexproof only on terms of being lower on P/T in general. So they sacrifice power to be harder to deal with - removing that advantage is plenty for doing stuff.
It might not affect the board directly, but it certainly makes those strategies WAY less attractive.
It's not a lie, that ability literally does nothing on its own. You have to have a removal spell or something to back it up.
A creature has hexproof only on terms of being lower on P/T in general. So they sacrifice power to be harder to deal with - removing that advantage is plenty for doing stuff.
Oh no, your creature is less efficient. Hosed.
Anyway, that's why people play Voltron strategies. You take away the drawback of having slightly lower base stats and take advantage of the really good ability by increasing stats. The creatures are hardly underpowered once suited up.
A creature has hexproof only on terms of being lower on P/T in general. So they sacrifice power to be harder to deal with - removing that advantage is plenty for doing stuff.
Not sure what you are basing this on. Seems like Narset is the only shroud commander with unusually low stats. But that is most likely because her other ability is nuts, not because she has hexproof.
Take a look over the creatures with hexproof and you'll notice that almost none of them are cost-effective, except a chunk of the rares that's basically french vanilla - most ohters having P/T around 3-. Most of the bigger creatures with hexproof have horrendous costs to balance out their big bodies with their resilience.
Take a look over the creatures with hexproof and you'll notice that almost none of them are cost-effective, except a chunk of the rares that's basically french vanilla - most ohters having P/T around 3-. Most of the bigger creatures with hexproof have horrendous costs to balance out their big bodies with their resilience.
I do not think I understand. Looking at the hexproof rares and mythics, their body seems pretty much on target with their mana cost, and uncommons and commons are overpriced for value as they typically are.
What are you expecting to see that is lacking? Undercosted creatures with downsides? Undercosted creatures with upsides as were power creeped in Theros?
I see a lot of 3 for 3 power, 5 for 5 power, 2 for 2 power which is pretty standard.
Take a look over the creatures with hexproof and you'll notice that almost none of them are cost-effective, except a chunk of the rares that's basically french vanilla - most ohters having P/T around 3-. Most of the bigger creatures with hexproof have horrendous costs to balance out their big bodies with their resilience.
Funny enough most of the mono-colored hexproofs are green - the color with the highest cost to P/T-ratio of all the colors. I know it's also the color to be associated with hexproof but just note it as a base for why they are actually cost-effective on P/T. The only off-color is not cost-effective in P/T and doesn't even passively have hexproof.
And then there's also a list of cost-ineffective on P/T of the hexproof creatures
The point I'm trying to make is that each of these creatures could easily have had higher P/T for the sacrifice of Hexproof. And by Arcane Lighthouse removing Hexproof (even if only for that turn) is actually doing something - it might not affect the board directly but the mere existence of that ability (on the board) makes their resilience "useless", thus less attractive to use (hosing the strategy).
It's kinda the same as saying Everlasting Torment doesn't do anything. Well it does when you fight people with lifegain and protection/prevention, atop being a very nasty counter to indestructible and regeneration.
We have received better counters to the aforementioned strategies which makes Everlasting Torment less attractive, but nonetheless it does work to reduce the attractiveness of those strategies.
Note that I think Hexproof is a degenerate and rather clunky mechanic and that it does need countermeasures to deal with it. That's not why I dislike Arcane Lighthouse. I dislike it because it does it as a land, it does it for colorless mana, it does it for a rather low cost, it's repetitive, it straight out removes the mechanic for that turn (for opponents of the user) instead of simply making THAT player able to bypass it, it hits shroud as well.
I see a lot of 3 for 3 power, 5 for 5 power, 2 for 2 power which is pretty standard.
3 for 3 power, there are 3, 1 of them is cost-ineffective as a 3/1 for 3. The other two mentioned above, Troll Ascetic and Witchstalker.
5 power for 5, there's Sigarda and Uril - both multicolor, legendary and mythic rare - tendency to generally have higher P/T-ratio to cost than most.
2 power for 2, there's Bassara Tower Archer. Battlefield Thaumaturge doesn't have it passively and Aegis of the Gods grants it to you.
That's why I said a chunk of the rares - not all of them. Also those you mention are multicolor, legendary, mythics - and Lazav is not cost-effective. He might become but he most certainly isn't in himself.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
Now if this said something like "shuffle all opponents' creatures with Hexproof/Shroud into their library" then yes, it would be unfair.
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Cards exist to counteract dominating or back breaking deck ideas. Making this a land is fine. Get over the fact that your own deck is now affected. It happens.
:symr::symb: I hate your deck(Kaervek the Merciless)
Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
Kemba, Kostume
Ka...Oh god that's not a good alliteration.Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
It's just bad if an entire strategy is hosed so hard with little to no cost to the player with these lands. Who ever thought Jester's Cap would become a chase card...
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Also throwing them in mono or dual color decks isnt really an issue, but a tricolor deck i would definitely pass.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I think Arcane Lighthouse hoses a bit too effectively. For instance it could be worded as Glaring Spotlight so it only works for the activating player. Another could be a slightly higher cost.
Effectively it's the same as a land that says "Prevent all but 2 damage from target (legendary) creature" - just to hose large beater commanders and reduce their effect.
Yes it does?
WWWAvacyn: We Can Make The World StopWWW
Didnt say anything about auto-including. Also if your running black it will almost always be a swamp from that urborg you tutored.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
1. Helm of Possession is amazing.
2. This card is not even close to how irritating Maze of Ith is for targetable voltrons.
3. This card is not comparable to Maze of Ith as far as playability because it is very narrow.
4. It does not even do anything to the Hexproof/Shroud creature, just opens them for something else to have an effect.
It will get played if the meta requires it and thereby makes it valuable enough, otherwise it will be replaced by more relevant lands.
Of course random noobs will play random lands while they learn what they are doing. Expect this land to see some play then slowly disappear just like Homeward Path did.
My problem is how effective it is. For a minimum of investment you remove a core strength from certain decks.
I agree that Hexproof is an annoying and sadly poorly created mechanic, but that doesn't mean it should just get an effective and relatively easy solution to deal with it. At first I thought Glaring Spotlight was a rather poor design to make hexproof utterly useless but I could see how it became a necessary evil - nonetheless an evil to deal with a degenerate mechanic.
To me, that's as lazy a design as a 1 or 2 mana enchantment or artifact that says:
"Creatures can always be blocked by creature who could block." - granted the wording is not elegant, play along.
It would render Flying, Intimidate/Fear, "Unblockable" (why were you removed my dear friend?) and Protection useless as a combat evasion.
Imagine the worth of True-Name Nemesis if it could just get blocked by a X/4+ creature with this lazy permanent on the board?
This land is about the same stage.
This so much. The fact that it doesn't do anything on its own pretty much keeps it from being too hard of a hoser, besides the fact that there are plenty of answers to it or the subsequent removal spell. Compare it to Wave of Vitriol against a colorless commander.
Being able to negate an ability is commonplace. Just because hexproof/shroud is a strong ability that is naturally hard to interact with does not mean that having some sort of counter to it is too strong, any more than reach is overpowered against flying.
A creature has hexproof only on terms of being lower on P/T in general. So they sacrifice power to be harder to deal with - removing that advantage is plenty for doing stuff.
It might not affect the board directly, but it certainly makes those strategies WAY less attractive.
This new card at least requires a second card/permanent to be useful.
MuzzioU XenagosGR NahiriW GitrogGB MarathGRW MarchesaUBR JenaraGUW KarlovBW TazriWUBRG
Retired: RakdosBR
It's not a lie, that ability literally does nothing on its own. You have to have a removal spell or something to back it up.
Oh no, your creature is less efficient. Hosed.
Anyway, that's why people play Voltron strategies. You take away the drawback of having slightly lower base stats and take advantage of the really good ability by increasing stats. The creatures are hardly underpowered once suited up.
Not sure what you are basing this on. Seems like Narset is the only shroud commander with unusually low stats. But that is most likely because her other ability is nuts, not because she has hexproof.
I do not think I understand. Looking at the hexproof rares and mythics, their body seems pretty much on target with their mana cost, and uncommons and commons are overpriced for value as they typically are.
What are you expecting to see that is lacking? Undercosted creatures with downsides? Undercosted creatures with upsides as were power creeped in Theros?
I see a lot of 3 for 3 power, 5 for 5 power, 2 for 2 power which is pretty standard.
French vanilla?
What flavor would these delicious creatures be?
MuzzioU XenagosGR NahiriW GitrogGB MarathGRW MarchesaUBR JenaraGUW KarlovBW TazriWUBRG
Retired: RakdosBR
Meanwhile the cost-effective rares are basically french vanillas and almost all are multicolor:
Funny enough most of the mono-colored hexproofs are green - the color with the highest cost to P/T-ratio of all the colors. I know it's also the color to be associated with hexproof but just note it as a base for why they are actually cost-effective on P/T. The only off-color is not cost-effective in P/T and doesn't even passively have hexproof.
And then there's also a list of cost-ineffective on P/T of the hexproof creatures
Cards like Geist of Saint Traft or Narset, Enlightened Master often need support to actually shine/survive.
The point I'm trying to make is that each of these creatures could easily have had higher P/T for the sacrifice of Hexproof. And by Arcane Lighthouse removing Hexproof (even if only for that turn) is actually doing something - it might not affect the board directly but the mere existence of that ability (on the board) makes their resilience "useless", thus less attractive to use (hosing the strategy).
It's kinda the same as saying Everlasting Torment doesn't do anything. Well it does when you fight people with lifegain and protection/prevention, atop being a very nasty counter to indestructible and regeneration.
We have received better counters to the aforementioned strategies which makes Everlasting Torment less attractive, but nonetheless it does work to reduce the attractiveness of those strategies.
Note that I think Hexproof is a degenerate and rather clunky mechanic and that it does need countermeasures to deal with it. That's not why I dislike Arcane Lighthouse. I dislike it because it does it as a land, it does it for colorless mana, it does it for a rather low cost, it's repetitive, it straight out removes the mechanic for that turn (for opponents of the user) instead of simply making THAT player able to bypass it, it hits shroud as well.
Edit:
3 for 3 power, there are 3, 1 of them is cost-ineffective as a 3/1 for 3. The other two mentioned above, Troll Ascetic and Witchstalker.
5 power for 5, there's Sigarda and Uril - both multicolor, legendary and mythic rare - tendency to generally have higher P/T-ratio to cost than most.
2 power for 2, there's Bassara Tower Archer. Battlefield Thaumaturge doesn't have it passively and Aegis of the Gods grants it to you.
Not exactly that many
That's why I said a chunk of the rares - not all of them. Also those you mention are multicolor, legendary, mythics - and Lazav is not cost-effective. He might become but he most certainly isn't in himself.