Been asking for the reverse of this (CMC 3 or less) for like ten years.
Yeah, me too, I've always referred to it as Smotherspell. I don't see it hitting standard anytime soon though, they seem adverse to early game countermagic with no card type restrictions like that.
Card is an interesting option. I can see a format existing where this stays in my board very easily.
And a mirror version of this (1U Counter target spell with converted mana cost 3 or less) would also be finely balanced, especially for Standard, where it would counter about half of spells where Disdainful Stroke counters the other half. It would be just like the pair of Negate and Essence Scatter. It would of course be better in eternal formats but still not OP.
Wow, not only does this seem good in a control shell, but this could help a blue tempo deck in the upcoming standard push through midrange decks when they start to drop fatties.
I can't see myself ever wanting to sideboard it. If they can cast CMC 4 spells then I should have 3 mana to cast Dissipate as just a general hard counter. Yes it's one mana less, but if they are casting big spells then they aren't going to be casting multiples of them in the same turn anyway. Standard will stick to Dissolve with sideboard Negate for things that need to be countered.
Well this is more Splashable than Dissipate that can be a thing
solid sideboard counterspell against midrange and control. I feel like there will be lots of midrange post-rotation with the cards from khans, but aggro is definitely still too viable for me to want to put this in the main.
elspheth
stormbreath
polukranous
all the khans except Anafenza
I want to main board 4 of these 4 negates 4 dissolve 4 Stubborn Refusal 4 Dissipate
im pretty sure someone will smack me in the face after playing my 12th counterspell in 1 game but it would be worth it
Know this sir; when that happens, somewhere in the southeast, I will be saluting you. No love for Mindswipe though? It seems like the perfect finisher.
@Reverendvile777: The point was that we have Convolute:Mana Leak::Thoughtbind:my proposed card.
It wouldn't *nearly* be MM levels of busted - most Legacy decks don't run 2 mana counterspells, and the fact that it would miss a ton of crucial cards like Splinter Twin, Birthing Pod, and Scapeshift (in modern) or Past In Flames, Ad Nauseam, Sneak Attack, Force of Will, etc (in Legacy) means that it would not be terribly overpowered.
I personally think it'd be an ideal counterspell. It's efficient and useful early game, and maintains its relevance into the later game, but only against cheaper cards. It is ineffective against expensive cards. This eliminates the biggest problems with Mana Leak, being
-It's a two mana card that can invalidate cards that cost 5-7 mana
-It maintains more late game relevance against decks that run expensive cards, making cards that cost >3 less useful and often practically unplayable
@LordGrimpow: Sure, it counters 4 mana cards. But the issue with Mana Leak has always been that it punishes players who play midrange/control because it can hit expensive things on curve, so you're more rewarded for just casting more 1-3 drops
@asmallcat: What does NWO have to do with it?
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Been asking for the reverse of this (CMC 3 or less) for like ten years.
That is never gonna happen in NWO. Maybe in a commander-like product.
I often wonder if people know what NWO means. NWO is a particular model of design meant to keep a balanced level of complexity at Common, in order to make the game easier for new players. A reverse of this spell would be perfect under NWO, what makes it quite unlikely is its power level, which would be insane at 2 CC.
Well, it's also used a shorthand for their entire current design philosophy, which is perfectly reasonable.
Depends on where you are. When most of the decks I run into have curves around 3.3, this thing will often be too little too late. And when you have the entire history of the game at your disposal, this is a pretty *****ty 1U counter spell.
Seems good in decks that want to tap mana on their turn, such as tempo or planeswalker control. Otherwise you should just be playing Dissipate and hit cheap spells too.
Cool counterspell. Will certainly see sideboard play. I like it!
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Casual Decks WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery) RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***) URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you) GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR) GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though) BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz) WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?) WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you) GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie) BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you) URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA) RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb) GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun) WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL) GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz) GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE) GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...) UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos) RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!) WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
Man I want a good tempo deck sooooo bad it hurts, love this card.
Oh yea, please give us the reverse of this too wizards! thanks.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
@Reverendvile777: The point was that we have Convolute:Mana Leak::Thoughtbind:my proposed card.
It wouldn't *nearly* be MM levels of busted - most Legacy decks don't run 2 mana counterspells, and the fact that it would miss a ton of crucial cards like Splinter Twin, Birthing Pod, and Scapeshift (in modern) or Past In Flames, Ad Nauseam, Sneak Attack, Force of Will, etc (in Legacy) means that it would not be terribly overpowered.
I personally think it'd be an ideal counterspell. It's efficient and useful early game, and maintains its relevance into the later game, but only against cheaper cards. It is ineffective against expensive cards. This eliminates the biggest problems with Mana Leak, being
-It's a two mana card that can invalidate cards that cost 5-7 mana
-It maintains more late game relevance against decks that run expensive cards, making cards that cost >3 less useful and often practically unplayable
I'd enjoy a card like that but I really feel that it would be busted in modern given the sheer volume of low cost spells. Perhaps BU with "counter target spell with cmc 2or less. You lose two life" ?
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Casual Decks WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery) RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***) URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you) GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR) GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though) BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz) WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?) WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you) GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie) BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you) URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA) RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb) GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun) WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL) GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz) GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE) GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...) UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos) RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!) WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
"Disdain" is *definitely* the right word for this-
It should have cost U.
As-is, I don't think I'd even want this in limited!
It's not THAT bad. Whatever you counter, you're going to counter it for at least half it's cost; that's not such a bad rate. One mana would be too good.
Weirdly, it's a common that's better in other constructed formats than Pauper, where there's just too much action that happens in the 1-3 CMC slots. It does hit Gary and various affinity golems, but that's about it.
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Yeah, me too, I've always referred to it as Smotherspell. I don't see it hitting standard anytime soon though, they seem adverse to early game countermagic with no card type restrictions like that.
Card is an interesting option. I can see a format existing where this stays in my board very easily.
And a mirror version of this (1U Counter target spell with converted mana cost 3 or less) would also be finely balanced, especially for Standard, where it would counter about half of spells where Disdainful Stroke counters the other half. It would be just like the pair of Negate and Essence Scatter. It would of course be better in eternal formats but still not OP.
Well this is more Splashable than Dissipate that can be a thing
Know this sir; when that happens, somewhere in the southeast, I will be saluting you. No love for Mindswipe though? It seems like the perfect finisher.
It counters cards with 4cc too.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
That is never gonna happen in NWO. Maybe in a commander-like product.
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@asmallcat: What does NWO have to do with it?
Currently Playing:
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Well, it's also used a shorthand for their entire current design philosophy, which is perfectly reasonable.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
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881
Oooh Dicey:
[dice=1]100[/dice]
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery)
RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***)
URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you)
GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR)
GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though)
BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz)
WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?)
WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you)
GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie)
BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you)
URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb)
GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun)
WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL)
GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks
UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz)
GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE)
GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...)
UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders
WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos)
RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard
RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!)
WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
Oh yea, please give us the reverse of this too wizards! thanks.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I'd enjoy a card like that but I really feel that it would be busted in modern given the sheer volume of low cost spells. Perhaps BU with "counter target spell with cmc 2or less. You lose two life" ?
WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery)
RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***)
URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you)
GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR)
GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though)
BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz)
WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?)
WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you)
GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie)
BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you)
URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb)
GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun)
WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL)
GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks
UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz)
GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE)
GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...)
UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders
WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos)
RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard
RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!)
WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
This card is sweet. It'll probably find a home eventually, but I'd be a little remiss to run it as more than just a sideboard card in week one.
States '09: 14th place. Aiming for better next year.
States '10: 12th place. Aiming for better next year.
Idaho State Champ: 2011
States '12: 5th place.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
It should have cost U.
As-is, I don't think I'd even want this in limited!
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It's not THAT bad. Whatever you counter, you're going to counter it for at least half it's cost; that's not such a bad rate. One mana would be too good.