This card looks solid. There's a lot of ways to enable this, and it makes for a solid tempo play. I like Satyr Wayfinder more than most people, however, so I could see how many people wouldn't be excited by this card.
Still, any card that can be compared to even Ancestral Visions is probably worth a look at.
Agreed. I am going to try to fit it in Modern WUR Delver. The deck has an issue with running out of cards in the mid-game. This will solve that. I just don't know what to cut because I am already cutting Electrolyze for Jeskai Charm.
Hmm. Cards LIKE this card often end up being really powerful, but dimissed as underpowered initially.
But I don't think that's the case here. 8 mana means you're not casting this unless your graveyard is jam packed full of stuff you want to exile. The appeal to many will be "I can cast Ancestral Recall in the right deck and it'll be broken!!", but Recall wasn't broken because you play it turn 5 after using most of your hand to set it up. I wouldn't say it's junk though either.
Not that great when you "chain" this into drawing another copy.... unless your graveyard had dozens of cards in it of course
It actually enables chaining fairly well--construct your deck well enough and a lot of its cards should count for 1 towards Delve. Ergo, it draws about 2-2.5 Delve mana's worth of cards. I'm generally able to cast it twice per game (against midrange).
Remember everybody, you don't have to exile cards till this costs U if you don't want to. If you have things in the yard you want, don't exile them. Nothing says you have to max out delve.
I tend to habitually max out Delve, whether that's any good or not. On the other hand, leaving mana up is awesome, and if Delve and Flashback interact like I think they do, I will max out on Delve when I flash it back with Tiago (which I've done at least twice in limited testing).
burn already use grim lavamancer as x3 or x4, and playing burn i take the 6 cards for 6 damage instead of 3 cards, so i dont think this card will make burn better (burn is already tier 1 IMHO).
i love the card, not care if is playable or not, but the design its so great
Grim Lavamancer also dies to everything. Granted, Modern is so savage that it'll kill Hellspark Elemental and Spark Elemental (so you may as well play the red dude with the biggest upside), but seeing my Lavaman die to a removal-heavy deck feels yucky.
On the other hand, Lavaman lures removal so Eidolon of the Great Revel sticks, so it does have that factor going for it...
burn already use grim lavamancer as x3 or x4, and playing burn i take the 6 cards for 6 damage instead of 3 cards, so i dont think this card will make burn better (burn is already tier 1 IMHO).
i love the card, not care if is playable or not, but the design its so great
If you need an explosive turn though, this card can give you a much more effective boost than Lavamancer though. Not that I think this card invalidates Grim Lavamancer, but you would have to test which works better in that situation. Lavamancer is considerably more efficient, but sometimes you might want to just dump the yard and hope to get that 6-9 damage you need to finish someone. And if your graveyard is absolutely packed (14+ cards) you can flashback it with Snapcaster; drawing 6 is almost always going to end the game one way or another.
I'm scared that Burn will splash blue just for Treasure Cruise. I tried URw Delver against Melira Pod just now in Modern, and URw Delver just burnt Melira Pod out from 8 life after resolving and flashing back (with Tiago) Treasure Cruise. (It killed a lot of creatures along the way.) The first time, Treasure Cruise cost 1 mana. The second time, it cost 2 mana. I'm scared that Treasure Cruise will get banned (it was a 3-of in URw Delver simply because they play only 4 conditionally dead cards called Remand) in Modern. Hold me.
You're so damn right. Just...the thought of this in a burn deck is just....it never even crossed my mind but now I can't stop thinking of it. Heck, I think I may play test it a bit in a Standard burn deck once I see what the rest of the cards are now. I may even run mindswipe in my Standard burn deck if Treasure Cruise works out well enough.
I keep looking back at this card and it just keeps looking better and better... I mean it draws you 3 CARDS FOR 1 OR 2 MANA in the midgame which then allows you to possibly PLAY the cards you just drew!! One of main problems with cards like tidings and concentrate was that their cost meant you had to durdle around for a turn without interacting with the opponent (which is liable to get you killed). This just totally refills your hand and lets you **** over most opponents (unless they're running this card too ). And it's a common. A COMMON. It's times like this where I'm reminded why I love magic!
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Casual Decks WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery) RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***) URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you) GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR) GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though) BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz) WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?) WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you) GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie) BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you) URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA) RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb) GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun) WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL) GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz) GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE) GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...) UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos) RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!) WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
At least for Modern/Legacy, I don't think it matters much that this is Sorcery-speed. You're going to be casting it for U or 1U mana mid- to late-game, so you'll have the mana to use the extra cards immediately, or for counter backup, anyway.
What it does mean is that more GY hate will be going around, though.
Honestly... I'm sure some people will play this in modern. But I still don't think its "bonkers".
From an affinity's player perspective, it seems pretty awful and not what you want to be doing.
In many ways... it is comparable to thoughtcast. Although it draws you one more card, it attempts to solve the same issue
with running out of cards mid game
Even thought cast does not see universal play in affinity.
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I think that this should be evaluated as if it cost 4U and said draw 3 cards. That is playable without enablers. With enablers assume it costs 2U-3U. That is under the curve. This has a good balance to it and will be strong in the decks that use it. I'd throw one copy into literally any blue deck in standard without question.
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A voice for Timmy.
Commander R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
Come along and ride on a fantastic voyage! To the land of cards!
I think that this should be evaluated as if it cost 4U and said draw 3 cards. That is playable without enablers. With enablers assume it costs 2U-3U. That is under the curve. This has a good balance to it and will be strong in the decks that use it. I'd throw one copy into literally any blue deck in standard without question.
its way less then 4U without enablers, if you play out your hand as a control deck and play one fetch the first one is more like 1-3 mana, even if you want to play it the moment you can its still more likely to cost 4 then 5 in any format with fetchlands(its terrible in multiples though so i wouldnt play more then 2-3), but i assume you cast this when your out of resources,
while for many cards the upside of being cheap later in the game loses relevance as you are less and less likely to have another cheap spell to cast in the same turn, thats not true for card draw.
i would not want to play enablers for this card because your expending your enabler and this card to get 2 mediocre card draw spells, i'd rather play this in a controlish list that just wants to trade cards(unless there is one that is better on itself then wayfinder/commune which is highly possible), and use something like empty the vaults in a deck with enablers
about the thoughtcast comparison and the cutting of thoughtcast in affinity, in the midgame affinity(when affinity is on, most of the time when you are playing thoughtcast) does not need random ornithopters or artifact lands, it wants business spells, having an extra business spells is more valuable then 2 random cards.
also drawing three cards is more then twice as valuable as drawing 2 in any deck, when your drawing 2 cards your replacing 1 card with 2 randoms netting 1, when your drawing three your replacing 1 card with 3 netting 2, but the real effect is more then doubled, as the expected value for the amount of non land spells you are drawing(alot of decks will be far less interested at drawing lands at this point but not all control decks), (assuming 25 lands) is 1.16 for a draw 2, or a net 0.16 compared to playing another spell, and 1.75 for a draw three or a net 0.75 compared to the situation your card draw spell had been another normal spell.
so unless you are in the market for drawing more lands, a draw 2 offers you very little while a draw 3 has a real effect.
sidenote if this card and Dig Through Time 6UU are both real, dig through time should blow this out the water, i'd much much rather choose the 2 best cards out of 7 in any midgame then draw 3, and its instant to boot.
I agree with you that dig through time is so much better than this. That card (if real) is actually quite good and will see play in standard.
The problem I have with Treasure Cruise is it costs 8 CMC. Yes it has delve, but on average its going to cost 3-4 through turn 4/5.
That means tapping out early if you want to cast it early. Some people compared it to concentrate.... but even that card does not see heavy modern play. (I don't think it sees any play actually). That's because tapping out turn 4 to draw 3 cards is bad.
Yeah, Dig Through Time probably just blows this off the stage. You only get two cards, but you get to look at seven, and it's the instant-speed card draw everyone was looking for. Tough to imagine both seeing play, so this probably spells doom for Treasure Cruise in Constructed.
people are really bad at judging delve cards... this card is unplayable outside of standard maybe. its so bad in multiples. comparing it to visions or recall is laughable. especially with snapcaster existing in other formats
Comparing it to cards that have the exact same effect? Inconceivable!
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
people are really bad at judging delve cards... this card is unplayable outside of standard maybe. its so bad in multiples. comparing it to visions or recall is laughable. especially with snapcaster existing in other formats
Comparing it to cards that have the exact same effect? Inconceivable!
It's not the same effect, the cost is vastly different.
STATISTICS.
All of these "Let's eliminate bad cards" crusades are simply ignorant. And when they start to devolve into "WotC is conspiring to give us crappy cards," they just become embarrassing. MATH is conspiring to give you crappy cards.
Yeah, Dig Through Time probably just blows this off the stage. You only get two cards, but you get to look at seven, and it's the instant-speed card draw everyone was looking for. Tough to imagine both seeing play, so this probably spells doom for Treasure Cruise in Constructed.
However, at maxed out delve Dig Through Time is twice as expensive and gives half as much raw card advantage. It is better when looking for specific answers, but I don't think we can dismiss Treasure Ship out of hand.
I will be taking this fairly early in Limited I think
Agreed. I am going to try to fit it in Modern WUR Delver. The deck has an issue with running out of cards in the mid-game. This will solve that. I just don't know what to cut because I am already cutting Electrolyze for Jeskai Charm.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It actually enables chaining fairly well--construct your deck well enough and a lot of its cards should count for 1 towards Delve. Ergo, it draws about 2-2.5 Delve mana's worth of cards. I'm generally able to cast it twice per game (against midrange).
I tend to habitually max out Delve, whether that's any good or not. On the other hand, leaving mana up is awesome, and if Delve and Flashback interact like I think they do, I will max out on Delve when I flash it back with Tiago (which I've done at least twice in limited testing).
Grim Lavamancer also dies to everything. Granted, Modern is so savage that it'll kill Hellspark Elemental and Spark Elemental (so you may as well play the red dude with the biggest upside), but seeing my Lavaman die to a removal-heavy deck feels yucky.
On the other hand, Lavaman lures removal so Eidolon of the Great Revel sticks, so it does have that factor going for it...
If you need an explosive turn though, this card can give you a much more effective boost than Lavamancer though. Not that I think this card invalidates Grim Lavamancer, but you would have to test which works better in that situation. Lavamancer is considerably more efficient, but sometimes you might want to just dump the yard and hope to get that 6-9 damage you need to finish someone. And if your graveyard is absolutely packed (14+ cards) you can flashback it with Snapcaster; drawing 6 is almost always going to end the game one way or another.
You're so damn right. Just...the thought of this in a burn deck is just....it never even crossed my mind but now I can't stop thinking of it. Heck, I think I may play test it a bit in a Standard burn deck once I see what the rest of the cards are now. I may even run mindswipe in my Standard burn deck if Treasure Cruise works out well enough.
This is definitely Modern playable in any blue deck.
It's pretty easy to cast this for one mana on turn 5.
If this is indeed real, I expect to see even more graveyard hate in the future.
WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery)
RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***)
URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you)
GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR)
GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though)
BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz)
WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?)
WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you)
GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie)
BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you)
URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb)
GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun)
WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL)
GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks
UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz)
GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE)
GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...)
UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders
WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos)
RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard
RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!)
WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
What it does mean is that more GY hate will be going around, though.
From an affinity's player perspective, it seems pretty awful and not what you want to be doing.
In many ways... it is comparable to thoughtcast. Although it draws you one more card, it attempts to solve the same issue
Even thought cast does not see universal play in affinity.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Feel free.
This is potentially on the level of revelation, letting you stabilize by playing those cards rather than gaining you life so you can take an attack.
I think that this should be evaluated as if it cost 4U and said draw 3 cards. That is playable without enablers. With enablers assume it costs 2U-3U. That is under the curve. This has a good balance to it and will be strong in the decks that use it. I'd throw one copy into literally any blue deck in standard without question.
Commander
R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control
GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock
WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
I agree with you that dig through time is so much better than this. That card (if real) is actually quite good and will see play in standard.
The problem I have with Treasure Cruise is it costs 8 CMC. Yes it has delve, but on average its going to cost 3-4 through turn 4/5.
That means tapping out early if you want to cast it early. Some people compared it to concentrate.... but even that card does not see heavy modern play. (I don't think it sees any play actually). That's because tapping out turn 4 to draw 3 cards is bad.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Comparing it to cards that have the exact same effect? Inconceivable!
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
It's not the same effect, the cost is vastly different.
However, at maxed out delve Dig Through Time is twice as expensive and gives half as much raw card advantage. It is better when looking for specific answers, but I don't think we can dismiss Treasure Ship out of hand.
If there is a control deck that wants this, then sure.
It's good, maybe it will get there.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
If you're playing this card in modern, you're playing it for 1-2 mana and have your own counters.