The color pie issue with this card is just one of the reasons we got a wedge set rather than a wedge block. Three-colored cards are difficult to design, and a three-color theme naturally leads to factions that have themes of their own. You solve this problem by designing three-colored cards that fit the factions, even if they don't really fit each one of its colors. Just remember Alara and the likes of Fire-Field Ogre. Hell, even two-colored factions are not safe from this: why couldn't Shambleshark be mono-blue? Because it's so Simic, that's why.
I like the flavor but with such a restrictive mana cost I feel like Huntmaster of the Fells outperforms this constructed. I'm a bit thrown off by the warrior sub-type as well but gotta proc dat Raiders' Spoils somehow.
The color pie issue with this card is just one of the reasons we got a wedge set rather than a wedge block. Three-colored cards are difficult to design, and a three-color theme naturally leads to factions that have themes of their own. You solve this problem by designing three-colored cards that fit the factions, even if they don't really fit each one of its colors. Just remember Alara and the likes of Fire-Field Ogre. Hell, even two-colored factions are not safe from this: why couldn't Shambleshark be mono-blue? Because it's so Simic, that's why.
Blue doesn't get a 2/1 for 1U (or even UU) with 2 bonuses. That's why Shambleshark is multi-color. Blue is 5th on the list for creatures according to WotC.
Wedge design is definitely narrower and harder to design but it doesn't have to be bad. That's the issue here. If a RUG card is hard to design for, you don't just slap it on a card that is something else and say "well, this is what wedge looks like, sorry". That is very much the issue here. Just like the Sage, this card they just added the wedge for no reason and I personally don't even think it has that strong of a flavor faction tie in either. I understand WotC is trying VERY hard to make the wedges stick but 2 years from now, it's still gonna be Raka, Dega, Junk, RUG and BUG. Green Bant cards were different from Naya Green cards were different from Jund Green cards. So far, there are not really any cards that give that kind of strong tie, multi or mono.
Shards worked, Conflux "cheated" cause it was 5 color and ARB was so terribly forced. Why they chose to take the Shards idea, not use Conflux and copy the ARB model with Khans is beyond me.
The color pie issue with this card is just one of the reasons we got a wedge set rather than a wedge block. Three-colored cards are difficult to design.. You solve this problem by designing three-colored cards that fit the factions, even if they don't really fit each one of its colors.
IMO, if there aren't enough wedge designs possible to fill up a large set, then make a SMALL set the wedge set.
And if there aren't even enough potential wedge designs to fill a small set, reduce the number of wedge cards in that set, so you aren't forcing bad designs to have wedge mana costs.
And if you can't even do that, then just toss the tiny handful of real wedge cards you can come up with into some random multi-color set and be done with it.
That said, I don't buy your explanation. I think there was some sloppy design here. I've designed literally hundreds of wedge cards that don't look like Mantis Rider, but actually belong in that wedge. Surely "the experts" can come up with 30 or so.
Yeah, wedge is a relatively complex design space, but there are five of them, and this is only one set, so I can't comprehend why we're getting lackluster / weird cards like this one. I love simple and elegant designs -- which this card otherwise is -- but the colors ruin it for me. Green and Selesnya have given us bodies with token buddies for years; I highly doubt that a card like this would have been designed as anything other than mono-green or Selesnya in a non-wedge set.
2GUR
Creature - Human Warrior (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, put a 4/4 green Bear creature token onto the battlefield.
2/2
To make this playable, I would make the following changes. First, get rid of the 2 unncessary colours in the mana cost:
2GGG
Creature - Human Warrior (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, put a 4/4 green Bear creature token onto the battlefield.
2/2
Since Bears are never 4/4, and only two Bears aren't 2/2, I'll "split" the token in half. This also makes it a lot better with Overrun effects and Anthem effects:
2GGG
Creature - Human Warrior (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, put two 2/2 green Bear creature tokens onto the battlefield.
2/2
And then I'll make it more splashable:
3GG
Creature - Human Warrior (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, put two 2/2 green Bear creature tokens onto the battlefield.
2/2
Sure, it's no Cloudgoat Ranger, but at least it's more likely to be played than the original!
Yeah, wedge is a relatively complex design space, but there are five of them, and this is only one set, so I can't comprehend why we're getting lackluster / weird cards like this one. I love simple and elegant designs -- which this card otherwise is -- but the colors ruin it for me. Green and Selesnya have given us bodies with token buddies for years; I highly doubt that a card like this would have been designed as anything other than mono-green or Selesnya in a non-wedge set.
I have to agree. This card, mechanically speaking, is not blue or red at all. Yes, the flavor behind the group that the card is associated with (Temur) is great, but to add colors to the card just so it can have the same colors as the group that it represents is adding those colors for the wrong reason. A card can be associated with a group without needing to be of all the colors in that group.
If the reason is that adding more colors makes it harder to cast and that making the card more difficult to cast creates balance, then adding more than one green mana symbol in the card makes it harder to cast, too, and thus also balances the card.
As another often-cited example, there is nothing red or white about Woolly Thoctar. Leatherback Baloth shows that we can get 4/5 creatures in green for just three mana. If the concern is that a three-mana 5/4 would be too good at just three mana, then it could just have been costed 1GGG or 2GG instead of RGW. It doesn't matter if the intention was to make it synergize well with the Naya mechanic, because Woolly Thoctar was never required to be of all three of Naya's colors to be associated with Naya in the first place.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
The color pie issue with this card is just one of the reasons we got a wedge set rather than a wedge block. Three-colored cards are difficult to design.. You solve this problem by designing three-colored cards that fit the factions, even if they don't really fit each one of its colors.
IMO, if there aren't enough wedge designs possible to fill up a large set, then make a SMALL set the wedge set.
And if there aren't even enough potential wedge designs to fill a small set, reduce the number of wedge cards in that set, so you aren't forcing bad designs to have wedge mana costs.
And if you can't even do that, then just toss the tiny handful of real wedge cards you can come up with into some random multi-color set and be done with it.
That said, I don't buy your explanation. I think there was some sloppy design here. I've designed literally hundreds of wedge cards that don't look like Mantis Rider, but actually belong in that wedge. Surely "the experts" can come up with 30 or so.
I've seen your designs. They're a fantastic blend of both terrible and OP. I think (despite what you seem to think from your exaggerated hateful posts on almost every spoiler so far) that this set is at the very least a step in the right direction. I think they've captured the feel of the wedges pretty effectively, and while not everything is quite the power level I'd prefer, I'd much prefer underpowered mythics and rares with solid uncommons than visa versa which is the way this set seems to be going. I couldn't possibly love what they've done with the charms and ascendancy cycles more.
As for the card itself, not being conditional on raid and being a ferocity enabler seems pretty sweet to me. I've learned to never underestimate the value of a split body effect like this after getting massive amounts of play with my good friend blade splicer. All in all a solid card design, even if it only bet sees limited play.
I'm fine with it. Yeah, the card isn't blue at all, but we also had stuff like this in Alara (what's so blue about Rhox War Monk? Higher toughness than power? What makes Sprouting Thrinax red? etc.). But I agree that when you think about it and realize that this card would have pretty much been Mono-G or GW in any other set, the design does feel a bit weak.
I also don't have any problems with bears being 4/4, because bears should obviously be more powerful than Traveling Philosophers. Even if you're breaking with a tradition this way, bumpig up their power makes bears feel less pathetic flavor-wise, which is a thing I can dig.
The color pie issue with this card is just one of the reasons we got a wedge set rather than a wedge block. Three-colored cards are difficult to design, and a three-color theme naturally leads to factions that have themes of their own. You solve this problem by designing three-colored cards that fit the factions, even if they don't really fit each one of its colors. Just remember Alara and the likes of Fire-Field Ogre. Hell, even two-colored factions are not safe from this: why couldn't Shambleshark be mono-blue? Because it's so Simic, that's why.
Blue doesn't get a 2/1 for 1U (or even UU) with 2 bonuses. That's why Shambleshark is multi-color. Blue is 5th on the list for creatures according to WotC.
They do when it's convenient for Wizards. Snapcaster readily comes to mind.
Not that I'm disagreeing. I don't think multicolor cards need to have properties of every color. As long as the design and flavor match a tri-color card, it's fine to make it tri-color.
I've seen your designs. They're a fantastic blend of both terrible and OP. I think (despite what you seem to think from your exaggerated hateful posts on almost every spoiler so far) that this set is at the very least a step in the right direction.
Back at ya, bro! You are a terrible designer, you're hateful, and you exaggerate like wild. However, I disagree with you that the set feels like a step in the right direction. It feels like the designers barely managed to slap something together that won't be (immediately) laughed off store shelves and limited tables, and/or forgotten to history as "The Fetchlands of Tarkir".
As for the card itself, not being conditional on raid and being a ferocity enabler seems pretty sweet to me.
Yeah, brilliant, they printed something with 4 power! That makes it an excellent ferocity enabler indeed. I'll try and come up with something that amazing some day.
]Another Wizards fanboy wants to glorify everything they do. Why can't you see that the game has gotten nothing but worse since the 1940's? At least in the 1800's we had spells that actually did something. I remember in 1492 when I first opened a pack of Alpha under the dim light of my oil lantern, I was at least inspired to travel to a new undiscovered land.!
]Another Wizards fanboy wants to glorify everything they do. Why can't you see that the game has gotten nothing but worse since the 1940's? At least in the 1800's we had spells that actually did something. I remember in 1492 when I first opened a pack of Alpha under the dim light of my oil lantern, I was at least inspired to travel to a new undiscovered land.!
Sheep is dead on. We need more players like him, and less like you Rancored. Rancored you are one of the worst card evaluators I've found on these forms and that's saying something.
Cue the overly defensive comeback that does nothing to change that fact...
Wow, based on some of the previous spoils, I'd half expect this to be rare!
But in all seriousness, I can appreciate this card. Everyone seems to hate 5/5s for 4 anymore....but I say you whipper-snappers never enjoyed the days where you played with Plague Sliver and liked it (and many who call me the young whipper-snapper for not playing Juzam and going nuts), and I can appreciate 6/6 spread over two guys for 5, personally, even if it is 3 colors. It's not rare, so I am content.
That also means Temur bear is almost on par power wise against a dragon. Damn, creatures of the North, and the Human who surpasses them.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Temur is feeding so many goodies to Riku of Two Reflections decks.
Blue doesn't get a 2/1 for 1U (or even UU) with 2 bonuses. That's why Shambleshark is multi-color. Blue is 5th on the list for creatures according to WotC.
Wedge design is definitely narrower and harder to design but it doesn't have to be bad. That's the issue here. If a RUG card is hard to design for, you don't just slap it on a card that is something else and say "well, this is what wedge looks like, sorry". That is very much the issue here. Just like the Sage, this card they just added the wedge for no reason and I personally don't even think it has that strong of a flavor faction tie in either. I understand WotC is trying VERY hard to make the wedges stick but 2 years from now, it's still gonna be Raka, Dega, Junk, RUG and BUG. Green Bant cards were different from Naya Green cards were different from Jund Green cards. So far, there are not really any cards that give that kind of strong tie, multi or mono.
Shards worked, Conflux "cheated" cause it was 5 color and ARB was so terribly forced. Why they chose to take the Shards idea, not use Conflux and copy the ARB model with Khans is beyond me.
IMO, if there aren't enough wedge designs possible to fill up a large set, then make a SMALL set the wedge set.
And if there aren't even enough potential wedge designs to fill a small set, reduce the number of wedge cards in that set, so you aren't forcing bad designs to have wedge mana costs.
And if you can't even do that, then just toss the tiny handful of real wedge cards you can come up with into some random multi-color set and be done with it.
That said, I don't buy your explanation. I think there was some sloppy design here. I've designed literally hundreds of wedge cards that don't look like Mantis Rider, but actually belong in that wedge. Surely "the experts" can come up with 30 or so.
.
Creature - Human Warrior (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, put a 4/4 green Bear creature token onto the battlefield.
2/2
To make this playable, I would make the following changes. First, get rid of the 2 unncessary colours in the mana cost:
2GGG
Creature - Human Warrior (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, put a 4/4 green Bear creature token onto the battlefield.
2/2
Since Bears are never 4/4, and only two Bears aren't 2/2, I'll "split" the token in half. This also makes it a lot better with Overrun effects and Anthem effects:
2GGG
Creature - Human Warrior (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, put two 2/2 green Bear creature tokens onto the battlefield.
2/2
And then I'll make it more splashable:
3GG
Creature - Human Warrior (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, put two 2/2 green Bear creature tokens onto the battlefield.
2/2
Sure, it's no Cloudgoat Ranger, but at least it's more likely to be played than the original!
.
I have to agree. This card, mechanically speaking, is not blue or red at all. Yes, the flavor behind the group that the card is associated with (Temur) is great, but to add colors to the card just so it can have the same colors as the group that it represents is adding those colors for the wrong reason. A card can be associated with a group without needing to be of all the colors in that group.
If the reason is that adding more colors makes it harder to cast and that making the card more difficult to cast creates balance, then adding more than one green mana symbol in the card makes it harder to cast, too, and thus also balances the card.
As another often-cited example, there is nothing red or white about Woolly Thoctar. Leatherback Baloth shows that we can get 4/5 creatures in green for just three mana. If the concern is that a three-mana 5/4 would be too good at just three mana, then it could just have been costed 1GGG or 2GG instead of RGW. It doesn't matter if the intention was to make it synergize well with the Naya mechanic, because Woolly Thoctar was never required to be of all three of Naya's colors to be associated with Naya in the first place.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
I've seen your designs. They're a fantastic blend of both terrible and OP. I think (despite what you seem to think from your exaggerated hateful posts on almost every spoiler so far) that this set is at the very least a step in the right direction. I think they've captured the feel of the wedges pretty effectively, and while not everything is quite the power level I'd prefer, I'd much prefer underpowered mythics and rares with solid uncommons than visa versa which is the way this set seems to be going. I couldn't possibly love what they've done with the charms and ascendancy cycles more.
As for the card itself, not being conditional on raid and being a ferocity enabler seems pretty sweet to me. I've learned to never underestimate the value of a split body effect like this after getting massive amounts of play with my good friend blade splicer. All in all a solid card design, even if it only bet sees limited play.
I also don't have any problems with bears being 4/4, because bears should obviously be more powerful than Traveling Philosophers. Even if you're breaking with a tradition this way, bumpig up their power makes bears feel less pathetic flavor-wise, which is a thing I can dig.
They do when it's convenient for Wizards. Snapcaster readily comes to mind.
Not that I'm disagreeing. I don't think multicolor cards need to have properties of every color. As long as the design and flavor match a tri-color card, it's fine to make it tri-color.
Karador EDH
Comments on decks welcome: http://tappedout.net/users/AradonTemplar/
Currently developing Set 1 of 3, 'Shadow': http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=436885
Drafting in 3 colors is going to be very exciting though. Wizards has printed buckets of mana fixing because of the lessons they learnt from Alara.
I was never excited to draft Theros block. You were either beating down with a bestowed/monstrous voltron or you were copping it from one.
I actually like trading resources and relying on trump card combat tricks. It really makes you think.
This is 2 creatures in one at uncommon. To me that's cool even if it's not constructed playable.
Back at ya, bro! You are a terrible designer, you're hateful, and you exaggerate like wild. However, I disagree with you that the set feels like a step in the right direction. It feels like the designers barely managed to slap something together that won't be (immediately) laughed off store shelves and limited tables, and/or forgotten to history as "The Fetchlands of Tarkir".
Yeah, brilliant, they printed something with 4 power! That makes it an excellent ferocity enabler indeed. I'll try and come up with something that amazing some day.
Baaaaaaaa! Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
.
EDH Decks
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Phelddagrif
Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Bladewing the Risen
The extra "a" means quality.
EDH Decks
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Phelddagrif
Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Bladewing the Risen
The extra "a" means quality.
Cue the overly defensive comeback that does nothing to change that fact...
But in all seriousness, I can appreciate this card. Everyone seems to hate 5/5s for 4 anymore....but I say you whipper-snappers never enjoyed the days where you played with Plague Sliver and liked it (and many who call me the young whipper-snapper for not playing Juzam and going nuts), and I can appreciate 6/6 spread over two guys for 5, personally, even if it is 3 colors. It's not rare, so I am content.
only if the art had him doing the splits with one leg on each bears back as they walk forward. Yaknow that thing Jean Claude Van Damn did...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMlpiey20b8