I wish my 4/4s with haste and first strike that acted as Goblin Warchiefs were better and didn't die to instants and overshadowed all other 4 drops in the format. And that they had evasion too, and some way to dodge wrath effects.
Kheru Lich lord is one of those cards that is just asking for too much. It looks like a fun card, but its just got too much going on. Wizards designs these bomby cards that people want to play, but we just can't. They just need to make something that's cheaper and simpler, then maybe people would play these cards over a diverse range of formats. In comparison to that Mardu Demon, this card is a disappointment. Had I designed this card...
Kheru Lich Lord BGU
Creature - Zombie Wizard (Rare)
At the beginning of your upkeep, return a card at random from your graveyard to your hand.
3/3
So simple. So playable. Not broken. The random factor minimizes shenanigans. Returning any card allows for creatures (black) spells (blue) and all cards (green) to work together in harmony. It's a 3/3 to make sure it's not terribly weak, as black and green have strong creatures, and blue has a high toughness. Anyhow, this is what I would have made. Many decks would have played it, and I think it's far from broken. It's a lot better than what we got, however...
I am glad you are not a developer
one, getting card advantage every turn
two, it is incredibly annoying to randomly select a card from a graveyard when they often become giant quickly, especially in decks that want stuff in the graveyard
three, delve itself allows you to filter out stuff you don't want so with this guy on the field you can keep recycling creatures and spells over and over by filtering out everything you don't want with delve since this guy doesn't exile anything after it brings it back.
The card as is is bad don't get me wrong, but your solution isn't very good either. I think its simply not an easy card type to balance developmentally so they obviously didn't try to push anything that involves recursion because that can really dominate a format.
Kheru Lich Lord has too much competition with Whip of Erebos to see standard play this season. Even still, random recursion isn't something you should be fishing for on T7.
Butcher of the Horde, though, is good. Even if you have no sacrifice fodder, a 5/4 flying beater is still a great T4 play.
I'm sure it's just me; but I really miss the days where Demons required true payment to summon/control them. It was so much more satisfying (albeit less powerful) to play with demons back then. Today demons are really just all upside and recently they're undercosted.
For me, making a deck that wants to win with "pay-to-play" demons is more on target with the nature of black and thus far more fun. Something like this Mardu demon is just too easy and not very demonic to me.
**I realize it is a strong card. That is not my argument against it.
Kheru Lich lord is one of those cards that is just asking for too much. It looks like a fun card, but its just got too much going on. Wizards designs these bomby cards that people want to play, but we just can't. They just need to make something that's cheaper and simpler, then maybe people would play these cards over a diverse range of formats. In comparison to that Mardu Demon, this card is a disappointment. Had I designed this card...
Kheru Lich Lord BGU
Creature - Zombie Wizard (Rare)
At the beginning of your upkeep, return a card at random from your graveyard to your hand.
3/3
So simple. So playable. Not broken. The random factor minimizes shenanigans. Returning any card allows for creatures (black) spells (blue) and all cards (green) to work together in harmony. It's a 3/3 to make sure it's not terribly weak, as black and green have strong creatures, and blue has a high toughness. Anyhow, this is what I would have made. Many decks would have played it, and I think it's far from broken. It's a lot better than what we got, however...
I am glad you are not a developer
one, getting card advantage every turn
two, it is incredibly annoying to randomly select a card from a graveyard when they often become giant quickly, especially in decks that want stuff in the graveyard
three, delve itself allows you to filter out stuff you don't want so with this guy on the field you can keep recycling creatures and spells over and over by filtering out everything you don't want with delve since this guy doesn't exile anything after it brings it back.
The card as is is bad don't get me wrong, but your solution isn't very good either. I think its simply not an easy card type to balance developmentally so they obviously didn't try to push anything that involves recursion because that can really dominate a format.
I'm not saying I made a balanced card, I'm saying I made a good card people would actually play. It's still a 3/3 (Which dies to a lot) for a difficult mana cost requirement, and doesn't do anything until your next upkeep. There's plenty of cards that give you card advantage from the graveyard. I think the most recent is Deadbridge Chant, and that has other effects to balance it out; it's harder to kill, it puts creatures directly onto the battlefield, etc. Anyhow, I know it's good, I just made up an example to demonstrate what I would expect of a good wedge color lich.
What we thought was a tight cycle of 3 drops is a loose cycle of just rares. Again i think it was more aggressively costed but development pushed it up. I am really looking forward to the card by card stories to find out why cycles that were right got bent. I do expect the sultai spell to be a three drop though. The other 4 clans have a third three drop after the charms and ascendancies.
Deadbridge chant is fine, but it costs 6 and is also a mythic so I don't think the comparison is apt from a power standpoint, but I understand where you're coming from in terms of what you would expect out of a BUG lich
The only way I can see the lich lord is as a big FU to BUG. Here's a cycle of four playable fatties that are aggressively costed and have consistently useful abilities, let's finish the cycle with an overcosted random reanimator that costs 2 more than any other card in the cycle but has the same P/T as one of the 3 mana cards. It will go great next to that Ascendancy enchantment that doesn't affect the battlefield, the 4/4 for 5 that relies on other cards eating the graveyard, and the Khan that is completely invalidated by the cheaper Khan in the cycle.
I mean, was Delve really THAT powerful that every Sultai card has to be overcosted and janked up to compensate? I don't care if they get one-off junk rares or junk mythics, but when every other wedge gets a playable fattie it is flat insulting to get a card that this much worse. At this point I feel like taking my BG ship and going to Azban just because they have cards that can actually fit a curve.
Wow, butcher is really strong. I daresay a better Falkenrath Aristocrat.
Wut. No way. It cost an extra color mana, thereby having better stats. But still.
I'll take the extra color with stronger stats any day of the week. Aristocrat largely only saw play in 3 color decks anyway. But the real thing here is how much of a house this can be against aggro.
didn't Aristocrat mainly saw play as the finisher for BR zombies back in INN/RTR?
BRW usually. Aristocrat is better on average. Doesn't need to sac for haste and indestructibility wins most fights.
Um no, aristocrat was known as the finisher in BR zombie decks far more than anything else.
The only way I can see the lich lord is as a big FU to BUG. Here's a cycle of four playable fatties that are aggressively costed and have consistently useful abilities, let's finish the cycle with an overcosted random reanimator that costs 2 more than any other card in the cycle but has the same P/T as one of the 3 mana cards. It will go great next to that Ascendancy enchantment that doesn't affect the battlefield, the 4/4 for 5 that relies on other cards eating the graveyard, and the Khan that is completely invalidated by the cheaper Khan in the cycle.
I mean, was Delve really THAT powerful that every Sultai card has to be overcosted and janked up to compensate? I don't care if they get one-off junk rares or junk mythics, but when every other wedge gets a playable fattie it is flat insulting to get a card that this much worse. At this point I feel like taking my BG ship and going to Azban just because they have cards that can actually fit a curve.
Plus, it only work in your next turn and IF you pay for it.
I seriously dont get it. There must be a 3-4 drop rare sultai still to be revealed.
Why the sultai guy is not 3cmc? They were supposed to have a cycle of cool 3 or 4 drops: Savage Knuckleblade, Siege Rhino, Mantis Rider and now Butcher of the Horde The sultai guy is definetely not at his place here and that is bad for sultai, the clan needed its 3drop. Also, although the logical dissynergy between him and delve, he is not really at home in sultai, reanimation effects being abzan colors traditionally. The card looks like a cycled random bad design for a commander set.
The guy lacks everything: strength, flavor, clan identity, true 'color identity' (flying, trample is not sufficient...), creative design (just a bad version of Sedris, the Traitor King).
Actually, he's got fairly strong synergy with Delve. After all, when you delve you decide which cards you are exiling, so if you've delved a few times, instead of "creature card at random" this guy returns "creature card of your choice", since you exiled all the rest.
Why the sultai guy is not 3cmc? They were supposed to have a cycle of cool 3 or 4 drops: Savage Knuckleblade, Siege Rhino, Mantis Rider and now Butcher of the Horde The sultai guy is definetely not at his place here and that is bad for sultai, the clan needed its 3drop. Also, although the logical dissynergy between him and delve, he is not really at home in sultai, reanimation effects being abzan colors traditionally. The card looks like a cycled random bad design for a commander set.
The guy lacks everything: strength, flavor, clan identity, true 'color identity' (flying, trample is not sufficient...), creative design (just a bad version of Sedris, the Traitor King).
Actually, he's got fairly strong synergy with Delve. After all, when you delve you decide which cards you are exiling, so if you've delved a few times, instead of "creature card at random" this guy returns "creature card of your choice", since you exiled all the rest.
And yet, you still need to pay 6 mana, wait till your next turn, then pay 3 mana in order to reanimate it. Just run whip, this creature is absolutely terrible for his cost.
The banners have the worst batch of flavor text I've seen in a long time. "Cruelty to rule"? Seriously? Who aside from the most bland, stereotypical, evil-laughter villain would ever believe in something like that?
Geeze, these are lazy design. Oh wow, a b/g/u card that gets haste, trample or flying. And then a r/w/b card that gets vigilance, lifelink, and haste. This whole set just seems paint by the numbers.
The banners have the worst batch of flavor text I've seen in a long time. "Cruelty to rule"? Seriously? Who aside from the most bland, stereotypical, evil-laughter villain would ever believe in something like that?
A 5/4 flyer with significant upside for 4 is "chaff?"
Dude, what exactly are you expecting?
Tarmogoyf, Snapcaster Mage, Lightning Bolt, Counterspell? I personally am less excited about fetches as I am about some of the other cards in the set. We all knew that they were going to reprint the fetches eventually since they want modern to be easier to get into, but nobody expected a 5/4 flyer with an upside.
If the demon was the centerpiece of chaff I should be flamed...
I believe the context was aimed at the general power level of set. The demon is good, make no bones about it. I've no real complaints about it. Probably the most original design yet. A white demon does feel weird and off putting though.
My current decks!
http://tappedout.net/users/ThePhasewalker/
I am glad you are not a developer
one, getting card advantage every turn
two, it is incredibly annoying to randomly select a card from a graveyard when they often become giant quickly, especially in decks that want stuff in the graveyard
three, delve itself allows you to filter out stuff you don't want so with this guy on the field you can keep recycling creatures and spells over and over by filtering out everything you don't want with delve since this guy doesn't exile anything after it brings it back.
The card as is is bad don't get me wrong, but your solution isn't very good either. I think its simply not an easy card type to balance developmentally so they obviously didn't try to push anything that involves recursion because that can really dominate a format.
Butcher of the Horde, though, is good. Even if you have no sacrifice fodder, a 5/4 flying beater is still a great T4 play.
For me, making a deck that wants to win with "pay-to-play" demons is more on target with the nature of black and thus far more fun. Something like this Mardu demon is just too easy and not very demonic to me.
**I realize it is a strong card. That is not my argument against it.
I'm not saying I made a balanced card, I'm saying I made a good card people would actually play. It's still a 3/3 (Which dies to a lot) for a difficult mana cost requirement, and doesn't do anything until your next upkeep. There's plenty of cards that give you card advantage from the graveyard. I think the most recent is Deadbridge Chant, and that has other effects to balance it out; it's harder to kill, it puts creatures directly onto the battlefield, etc. Anyhow, I know it's good, I just made up an example to demonstrate what I would expect of a good wedge color lich.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
What we thought was a tight cycle of 3 drops is a loose cycle of just rares. Again i think it was more aggressively costed but development pushed it up. I am really looking forward to the card by card stories to find out why cycles that were right got bent. I do expect the sultai spell to be a three drop though. The other 4 clans have a third three drop after the charms and ascendancies.
Mardu Ascendancy makes tokens when you attack...
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
I mean, was Delve really THAT powerful that every Sultai card has to be overcosted and janked up to compensate? I don't care if they get one-off junk rares or junk mythics, but when every other wedge gets a playable fattie it is flat insulting to get a card that this much worse. At this point I feel like taking my BG ship and going to Azban just because they have cards that can actually fit a curve.
Um no, aristocrat was known as the finisher in BR zombie decks far more than anything else.
A 5/4 flyer with significant upside for 4 is "chaff?"
Dude, what exactly are you expecting?
I seriously dont get it. There must be a 3-4 drop rare sultai still to be revealed.
And yet, you still need to pay 6 mana, wait till your next turn, then pay 3 mana in order to reanimate it. Just run whip, this creature is absolutely terrible for his cost.
Abyssal Persecutor 2.0 or whole set is trash. You heard it from me first, ladies and germs.
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Club Flamingo Wins: 10
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EDH Decks
BG Vicious Varolz | RW Jor Kadeen, the Mean Machine | RG Atarka: Muh_Dragons.dec (WIP) | WU Brago, Blink Eternal (WIP)
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*****
ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
*****
Visit my gaming blog: http://www.gamingsweetgaming.blogspot.com
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I like this
Cruelty doesn't mean lack of subtlety, you know.
No one sees the cruelest manipulation.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Tarmogoyf, Snapcaster Mage, Lightning Bolt, Counterspell? I personally am less excited about fetches as I am about some of the other cards in the set. We all knew that they were going to reprint the fetches eventually since they want modern to be easier to get into, but nobody expected a 5/4 flyer with an upside.
I believe the context was aimed at the general power level of set. The demon is good, make no bones about it. I've no real complaints about it. Probably the most original design yet. A white demon does feel weird and off putting though.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Let me take a look at it's text box to see what the downside is.