I like this card. Gets even better in decks that have anthem effects. I think most of the time this is a 2/2 that puts 5 1/1s in when it dies. Playing it face up will probably only ever happen in the super super late game.
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Standard WUControlWU
Commander (EDH) WBRKaalia of the VastWBR WRGMayael the AnimaWRG
Except, again, you're not actually giving any evidence. I gave you a large list of various Hydra abilities and an even larger list of unique, flavorful and varied ways in which different hydra cards demonstrate the "multi-headed" thing and in which they grow larger (or make other things larger). Even ignoring the red ones, there are plenty of abilities. There are actually only a handful that do nothing but make themselves larger.
Again, I can make the same exact argument for Sphinxes:
And yes, I do think that hydras' abilities are more varied. They usually are things never or rarely seen on any previous cards. Like fighting multiple creatures at once while growing massively. Like getting huge and making an army of large tokens at the same time. Like removing counters to take damage and then doubling the counters at the end of turn. They could easily try harder and create unique abilities for Sphinxes. They don't. Why couldn't a Sphinx get a cost reduction for each blue creature you control? Why couldn't a Sphinx search the top cards of your library for an equally large card and put it into play?
See. It's the exact same thing. It's just based on nonsensical, clearly biased "gut feelings" about something being "more varied" than something else. Not to mention that there are only 16 mono-green hydras. There are 31% more mono-blue sphinxes than that and significantly more demons, dragons and angels. Obviously such a rare creature type isn't going to have as much variation in MTG's history. More importantly, what the hell do you want a Hydra to do? They already have basically every piece of green's color pie besides a few that make no sense flavorfully and are more than covered by Elves.
I like this card. Gets even better in decks that have anthem effects. I think most of the time this is a 2/2 that puts 5 1/1s in when it dies. Playing it face up will probably only ever happen in the super super late game.
Unless it dies as soon as you flip it up or flip it in response to removal, this can't ever just be a 2/2 that puts 5 1/1s into play when it dies. If it dies while face down, it doesn't put anything into play.
Even ignoring the obviously clever design that's gone into a bunch of them, how is this any different than Angels, Demons, Sphinxes, etc.?
Personally I think that Angels, Demons and the like have more variation than the X +1/+1 counters with a side effect or ability template that Hydras have.
As far as angels go, sure there's a trend for 3 or more power and toughness with flying, but the abilities are quite variable: bounce, exile graveyard, destroy permanents, lifegain, boosting the stats of your creatures, protection from certain spells or abilities, etc. There's a lot of variety.
I think Demons also have greater variety here. Some enable card draw, some destroy, some have an aggressive cost that causes you to lose life or permanents, some cause your opponents to lose life, etc. I think there's a fair amount of variety there as well.
I'll give you Sphinxes, which are almost universally library manipulation effects.
I just want to play this in a Jund deck and do this one time. I would already have enough fetches (Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills), so I have my mana fixing.
T3 (or T2 with a Mystic): Morph Hooded Hydra
T4 (T3?): Purphoros
T5 (T4?): Flip Hydra
T5 (I have to have mystic by then): Murderous Cut my own hydra to deal 10 damage to opponent
At this point I really would love it if they just limited the mythic rarity to planeswalkers. It would make them feel even more special and would LET THEM PRINT STRONG CARDS at rare level without fear of $30 mythics ruining standard with high costs.
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Casual Decks WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery) RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***) URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you) GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR) GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though) BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz) WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?) WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you) GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie) BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you) URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA) RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb) GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun) WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL) GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz) GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE) GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...) UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos) RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!) WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
...don't get me wrong, I like hydras and this one seems like it would be really fun to play with, but it just makes more sense to have the forest color to have giant treefolk instead of hydras. For all we know the tree on the mana symbol could even be a treefolk, it is just a silhouette after all
as I knew morph don't use stack but can we downfalled hydra before getting 5 counter when unmorph?
I believe the "as" functions the same as a hydra (or a planeswalker) entering the battlefield. Since you can't respond to morph, there will be no chance for you to downfall anyway (until I pass priority).
so in this case it'll always generate token no matter how you killed it if morph cost is paid right?
Purphoros likes this hydra I guess
My point is clearly stated, and i do say and repeat that hydra don't get the variety and creativity in abilities other iconic get. (Beside dragons, which do get flying in a colour that's get much of it otherwise, but otherwise in a similar boat.)
Maybe because this was a relatively recent decision on Wizards part, making the Hydras the iconic, and they need some time to actually work out the more "creative" abilities?
WUControlWU
Commander (EDH)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
WRGMayael the AnimaWRG
Again, I can make the same exact argument for Sphinxes:
And yes, I do think that hydras' abilities are more varied. They usually are things never or rarely seen on any previous cards. Like fighting multiple creatures at once while growing massively. Like getting huge and making an army of large tokens at the same time. Like removing counters to take damage and then doubling the counters at the end of turn. They could easily try harder and create unique abilities for Sphinxes. They don't. Why couldn't a Sphinx get a cost reduction for each blue creature you control? Why couldn't a Sphinx search the top cards of your library for an equally large card and put it into play?
See. It's the exact same thing. It's just based on nonsensical, clearly biased "gut feelings" about something being "more varied" than something else. Not to mention that there are only 16 mono-green hydras. There are 31% more mono-blue sphinxes than that and significantly more demons, dragons and angels. Obviously such a rare creature type isn't going to have as much variation in MTG's history. More importantly, what the hell do you want a Hydra to do? They already have basically every piece of green's color pie besides a few that make no sense flavorfully and are more than covered by Elves.
Unless it dies as soon as you flip it up or flip it in response to removal, this can't ever just be a 2/2 that puts 5 1/1s into play when it dies. If it dies while face down, it doesn't put anything into play.
Personally I think that Angels, Demons and the like have more variation than the X +1/+1 counters with a side effect or ability template that Hydras have.
As far as angels go, sure there's a trend for 3 or more power and toughness with flying, but the abilities are quite variable: bounce, exile graveyard, destroy permanents, lifegain, boosting the stats of your creatures, protection from certain spells or abilities, etc. There's a lot of variety.
I think Demons also have greater variety here. Some enable card draw, some destroy, some have an aggressive cost that causes you to lose life or permanents, some cause your opponents to lose life, etc. I think there's a fair amount of variety there as well.
I'll give you Sphinxes, which are almost universally library manipulation effects.
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T3 (or T2 with a Mystic): Morph Hooded Hydra
T4 (T3?): Purphoros
T5 (T4?): Flip Hydra
T5 (I have to have mystic by then): Murderous Cut my own hydra to deal 10 damage to opponent
At this point I really would love it if they just limited the mythic rarity to planeswalkers. It would make them feel even more special and would LET THEM PRINT STRONG CARDS at rare level without fear of $30 mythics ruining standard with high costs.
WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery)
RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***)
URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you)
GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR)
GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though)
BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz)
WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?)
WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you)
GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie)
BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you)
URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb)
GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun)
WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL)
GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks
UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz)
GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE)
GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...)
UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders
WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos)
RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard
RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!)
WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
I completely agree, but alas I have been shown we are in the minority.
...don't get me wrong, I like hydras and this one seems like it would be really fun to play with, but it just makes more sense to have the forest color to have giant treefolk instead of hydras. For all we know the tree on the mana symbol could even be a treefolk, it is just a silhouette after all
so in this case it'll always generate token no matter how you killed it if morph cost is paid right?
Purphoros likes this hydra I guess
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I bet there are more hydras than dragons as of late.
Maybe because this was a relatively recent decision on Wizards part, making the Hydras the iconic, and they need some time to actually work out the more "creative" abilities?
Yes it is.
There's no reason why it isn't.
Also, don't necro old threads.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Alright, thank you. I didn't notice it was an old thread either. Sorry.
Also, it won't let me quote because it has URL's, ugh