It's neat, but this card is no Thragtusk. Thragtusk was borderline oppressive (and a lot easier to cast). The +5 life was nearly impossible for some decks to fight back against and it always left behind a 3/3 body, so it wasn't profitable to trade with it OR slap it with a removal spell. This card comes down, does it's thing, then I hit it with removal and don't have to worry about it anymore.
Wow I think this is the first time I've seen someone actually use the dies to removal argument about a card DESPITE it having an etb effect. I guess the new standard is etb AND LBT effects and/or hexproof for a card to be good?
Yes the card is overhyped, but it IS solid. If this doesn't see play, it's because it's lacking a proper azban shell, nothing else.
It's not terrible. I really wish the lifegain scaled so it could be a little more fun in casual. If it gave 3 life for each opponent I'd consider making a terrible EDH deck that runs it with a lot of life drain/life gain spells and support.
A lot of people in this thread are calling this card "the new Thragtusk". I am simply pointing out that this card is NOT Thragtusk, which is probably a good thing because Thragtusk was a little too powerful.
Yea, I get that. Honestly I was gonna multiquote you and rancored elf but then was lazy and only responded to you so a good chunk of my disbelief is directed at him haha. Fact is it's a good card in standard which is the only format it really matters in. Tusk doesn't see modern play and was still a good card, this will be the same way I feel given it's in a lower power environment than tusk was. I think it's actually a well enough designed card and is not gonna be a dollar bin rare as rancored suggests.
Weren't Abzan supposed to be the controlling long game colors this set? jk. Totally not mad about this at all. REALLY interested to see where the rest of the set goes with stuff like this.
With all of the counterspells that they've put with Temur, I think that Wizards is attempting to change the current understanding of "control". Abzan is the "slow and steady wins the race" type of control. It deals with threats defensively, not actively, and further builds its defense by gaining life and buffing its creatures.
We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out (the Abzan Charm will tell us a lot about how Wizards views the wedge), but it really seems that counterspells are Temur's thing now.
Weren't Abzan supposed to be the controlling long game colors this set? jk. Totally not mad about this at all. REALLY interested to see where the rest of the set goes with stuff like this.
With all of the counterspells that they've put with Temur, I think that Wizards is attempting to change the current understanding of "control". Abzan is the "slow and steady wins the race" type of control. It deals with threats defensively, not actively, and further builds its defense by gaining life and buffing its creatures.
We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out (the Abzan Charm will tell us a lot about how Wizards views the wedge), but it really seems that counterspells are Temur's thing now.
I agree with that entirely. It's part of the reason for the jk. I'm well aware that seems to be where Wizards is going here but I don't have enough information to say how well or badly they've hit that yet. I haven't been playing for a very long time (only about 6 years) but I've been around just long enough to know there's more than one kind of control deck. I'll be curious to see how this plays out though because this looks so different from the other kinds of control strategies I've played outside of my Ghave deck in EDH.
This card is absolutely bonkers. I don't care what any of you say. This is a much, MUCH better version of Geralf's Messenger, and that saw heavy play. Better P/T, you gain life.. I don't know what else to say. This card is absolutely unreal. Will see heavy standard play without a doubt.
Thragtusk is definitely the better card. Agreed with some of the posters here. Abzan doesn't capture the flavor of being black. I still don't get how this makes each opponent lose 3 life.
Thragtusk is definitely the better card. Agreed with some of the posters here. Abzan doesn't capture the flavor of being black. I still don't get how this makes each opponent lose 3 life.
Not denying that at all, just saying the closest creature it reminds me of personally is a fixed Thraggy. Looking forward to it though.
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MTG Junky... First packs being a starter of each 4th Edition and Ice Age. Good Grief, I've been playing since 1995? Where does the time go!
Quote from Xcric »
this is mtgs, where occam's razor is so blunt it can't cut jello any more.
This card makes me torn between Temur and Abzan. I guess it is more about which beater is better: Savage Knuckleblade or Siege Rhino.
One is a hyper efficient creature that is relevant in every part of the game, allowing you to pressure and protect against almost anything in the format. The other one is Siege Rhino.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
This card is absolutely bonkers. I don't care what any of you say. This is a much, MUCH better version of Geralf's Messenger, and that saw heavy play. Better P/T, you gain life.. I don't know what else to say. This card is absolutely unreal. Will see heavy standard play without a doubt.
They aren't even close in power level. Messenger is a tribal Zombie that has natural synergies with basic principles of the game, creating combat advantage with it's efficient body, and aggressive abilities. It thrives off removal, and remains relevant stalling the board, while still dealing damage. When something bigger comes out, it doesn't become useless, instead giving you time to stabilize or answer it, even maintaining aggression against your opponent's attacks.
Siege Rhino is a 4 mana card that is difficult to cast, and doesn't match the efficiency of other wedge cards. In it's own clan, there are better options. Anafenza, the Foremost can come down earlier, easily outracing Rhino, while creating more aggression just by attacking, on top of having an ability that counters death triggers for your opponent. If it's stats can't surmount your opponent's defense, it still does work.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
This card is absolutely bonkers. I don't care what any of you say. This is a much, MUCH better version of Geralf's Messenger, and that saw heavy play. Better P/T, you gain life.. I don't know what else to say. This card is absolutely unreal. Will see heavy standard play without a doubt.
They aren't even close in power level. Messenger is a tribal Zombie that has natural synergies with basic principles of the game, creating combat advantage with it's efficient body, and aggressive abilities. It thrives off removal, and remains relevant stalling the board, while still dealing damage. When something bigger comes out, it doesn't become useless, instead giving you time to stabilize or answer it, even maintaining aggression against your opponent's attacks.
Siege Rhino is a 4 mana card that is difficult to cast, and doesn't match the efficiency of other wedge cards. In it's own clan, there are better options. Anafenza, the Foremost can come down earlier, easily outracing Rhino, while creating more aggression just by attacking, on top of having an ability that counters death triggers for your opponent. If it's stats can't surmount your opponent's defense, it still does work.
I presume you haven't seen the plethora of professional articles claiming how insane this card is? Please, kindly see yourself the door.
This card is absolutely bonkers. I don't care what any of you say. This is a much, MUCH better version of Geralf's Messenger, and that saw heavy play. Better P/T, you gain life.. I don't know what else to say. This card is absolutely unreal. Will see heavy standard play without a doubt.
They aren't even close in power level. Messenger is a tribal Zombie that has natural synergies with basic principles of the game, creating combat advantage with it's efficient body, and aggressive abilities. It thrives off removal, and remains relevant stalling the board, while still dealing damage. When something bigger comes out, it doesn't become useless, instead giving you time to stabilize or answer it, even maintaining aggression against your opponent's attacks.
Siege Rhino is a 4 mana card that is difficult to cast, and doesn't match the efficiency of other wedge cards. In it's own clan, there are better options. Anafenza, the Foremost can come down earlier, easily outracing Rhino, while creating more aggression just by attacking, on top of having an ability that counters death triggers for your opponent. If it's stats can't surmount your opponent's defense, it still does work.
I presume you haven't seen the plethora of professional articles claiming how insane this card is? Please, kindly see yourself the door.
Hey you know "professionals" are paid to write articles about how good things are? If they don't drum up some interest in the cards in khans, people will start noticing how much of a crapfest it is
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
This card is absolutely bonkers. I don't care what any of you say. This is a much, MUCH better version of Geralf's Messenger, and that saw heavy play. Better P/T, you gain life.. I don't know what else to say. This card is absolutely unreal. Will see heavy standard play without a doubt.
They aren't even close in power level. Messenger is a tribal Zombie that has natural synergies with basic principles of the game, creating combat advantage with it's efficient body, and aggressive abilities. It thrives off removal, and remains relevant stalling the board, while still dealing damage. When something bigger comes out, it doesn't become useless, instead giving you time to stabilize or answer it, even maintaining aggression against your opponent's attacks.
Siege Rhino is a 4 mana card that is difficult to cast, and doesn't match the efficiency of other wedge cards. In it's own clan, there are better options. Anafenza, the Foremost can come down earlier, easily outracing Rhino, while creating more aggression just by attacking, on top of having an ability that counters death triggers for your opponent. If it's stats can't surmount your opponent's defense, it still does work.
I presume you haven't seen the plethora of professional articles claiming how insane this card is? Please, kindly see yourself the door.
Hey you know "professionals" are paid to write articles about how good things are? If they don't drum up some interest in the cards in khans, people will start noticing how much of a crapfest it is
Yes, because that's totally what they do 100% of the time. When they did it for Snapcaster Mage, that's exactly what they were doing. When they did it for Giest of Saint Traft, they were just paid to write about how good the card was to "drum up interest" in Innistrad. I'm not saying they don't do this sometimes, but largely, that is not the case. Especially with this card. It is a powerhouse. Simple as that. It is the definition of value.
I have been testing this out in a Junk midrange deck of mine against some other decks and this card has been a pretty good card. If you draw this turns 7+ it helps break up any board stall by draining the life. Also Anazfenza is only easier to cast in the sense that she is BWG instead of 1BWG...hardly any less restrictive color wise.
Total possible damage, 3 on ETB, 4 on attack, 3 more on second ETB off Skybind, 10. Halfway there.
I originally thought the same thing as you as this had the potential to be a beefier obzedat if you had enough blink effects in standard but I decided that it was too clunky to set up the combo and that just a junk midrange deck was better suited to this card (playing him as a T3 ot T4 play).
Total possible damage, 3 on ETB, 4 on attack, 3 more on second ETB off Skybind, 10. Halfway there.
I originally thought the same thing as you as this had the potential to be a beefier obzedat if you had enough blink effects in standard but I decided that it was too clunky to set up the combo and that just a junk midrange deck was better suited to this card (playing him as a T3 ot T4 play).
The big thing I see though is that I've been playing Skybind Junk for going on 3 months and creatures like this one is just what I've been looking for. Period.
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MTG Junky... First packs being a starter of each 4th Edition and Ice Age. Good Grief, I've been playing since 1995? Where does the time go!
Quote from Xcric »
this is mtgs, where occam's razor is so blunt it can't cut jello any more.
The rhino is clearly good, and its 5 thoughness is what keeps it around against the 4/4 sized dudes.
However, its totally right that it might just not be "good enough" , as the 4-5 drops in the format seems to be pretty huge and you just play what color combination you have.
I mean if you want a Gray merchant, the rhino drains for less, but gives a bigger body, it does its job and its pretty good compared to earlier incarnations of its kind (Loxodon Hierarch, Ravenous Baloth and all the like).
But still, it might not be enough, even if its pushed, all depends on if its color combination will be a thing or not (and considering theros block, it very well could be).
The only problem this card has is polukranos is at least 2/1 bigger then it and the difference is likley larger then that. (For those wondering 5/5 + monstrous for 1) This card is good but it is likely that polukranos is just better
The only problem this card has is polukranos is at least 2/1 bigger then it and the difference is likley larger then that. (For those wondering 5/5 + monstrous for 1) This card is good but it is likely that polukranos is just better
I guess the big question for this guy's playability before Polukranos rotates out is basically, how often have you found yourself wanting more than one Polukranos? So would it be worth running him as Polu's 5-8, or in some combination thereof? I honestly don't have an answer to that, but it's someething to consider.
I personally think that Junk is a very strong color combination (take a look at the PT: JOU top 8 deck lists) and I think that all the cards added so far really helped junk out. You can now run Utter End as kill spells in Junk colors as well as end hostilities if you need board wipe.
This card is absolutely bonkers. I don't care what any of you say. This is a much, MUCH better version of Geralf's Messenger, and that saw heavy play. Better P/T, you gain life.. I don't know what else to say. This card is absolutely unreal. Will see heavy standard play without a doubt.
geralfs messenger was a 3 drop, you really really cant compare 3's with 4s, 1 mana difference on identical cards is the difference between good cards and completely unplayable ones, messenger is a way supperior aggresive card, mostly because its cheaper and matches up way better vs removal.
this however is a better defensive card as it gains life and is an excelent blocker, making this card midrangiest of midrange, very solid but certainly not much better then messenger, but potentially better in midrange decks depending on the aggresiveness of the format and the specific midrange deck.
I will totally give you that one my friend. This card is at home in a midrange deck. Abzan midrange 4 lyfe.
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With all of the counterspells that they've put with Temur, I think that Wizards is attempting to change the current understanding of "control". Abzan is the "slow and steady wins the race" type of control. It deals with threats defensively, not actively, and further builds its defense by gaining life and buffing its creatures.
We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out (the Abzan Charm will tell us a lot about how Wizards views the wedge), but it really seems that counterspells are Temur's thing now.
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
I agree with that entirely. It's part of the reason for the jk. I'm well aware that seems to be where Wizards is going here but I don't have enough information to say how well or badly they've hit that yet. I haven't been playing for a very long time (only about 6 years) but I've been around just long enough to know there's more than one kind of control deck. I'll be curious to see how this plays out though because this looks so different from the other kinds of control strategies I've played outside of my Ghave deck in EDH.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Not denying that at all, just saying the closest creature it reminds me of personally is a fixed Thraggy. Looking forward to it though.
One is a hyper efficient creature that is relevant in every part of the game, allowing you to pressure and protect against almost anything in the format. The other one is Siege Rhino.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
They aren't even close in power level. Messenger is a tribal Zombie that has natural synergies with basic principles of the game, creating combat advantage with it's efficient body, and aggressive abilities. It thrives off removal, and remains relevant stalling the board, while still dealing damage. When something bigger comes out, it doesn't become useless, instead giving you time to stabilize or answer it, even maintaining aggression against your opponent's attacks.
Siege Rhino is a 4 mana card that is difficult to cast, and doesn't match the efficiency of other wedge cards. In it's own clan, there are better options. Anafenza, the Foremost can come down earlier, easily outracing Rhino, while creating more aggression just by attacking, on top of having an ability that counters death triggers for your opponent. If it's stats can't surmount your opponent's defense, it still does work.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
I presume you haven't seen the plethora of professional articles claiming how insane this card is? Please, kindly see yourself the door.
Hey you know "professionals" are paid to write articles about how good things are? If they don't drum up some interest in the cards in khans, people will start noticing how much of a crapfest it is
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Yes, because that's totally what they do 100% of the time. When they did it for Snapcaster Mage, that's exactly what they were doing. When they did it for Giest of Saint Traft, they were just paid to write about how good the card was to "drum up interest" in Innistrad. I'm not saying they don't do this sometimes, but largely, that is not the case. Especially with this card. It is a powerhouse. Simple as that. It is the definition of value.
T1: Scryland
T2: Sylvan Caryatid
T3: Siege Rhino
T4: Attack, Play Skybind, blink and have untapped for blocking.
Total possible damage, 3 on ETB, 4 on attack, 3 more on second ETB off Skybind, 10. Halfway there.
I originally thought the same thing as you as this had the potential to be a beefier obzedat if you had enough blink effects in standard but I decided that it was too clunky to set up the combo and that just a junk midrange deck was better suited to this card (playing him as a T3 ot T4 play).
The big thing I see though is that I've been playing Skybind Junk for going on 3 months and creatures like this one is just what I've been looking for. Period.
However, its totally right that it might just not be "good enough" , as the 4-5 drops in the format seems to be pretty huge and you just play what color combination you have.
I mean if you want a Gray merchant, the rhino drains for less, but gives a bigger body, it does its job and its pretty good compared to earlier incarnations of its kind (Loxodon Hierarch, Ravenous Baloth and all the like).
But still, it might not be enough, even if its pushed, all depends on if its color combination will be a thing or not (and considering theros block, it very well could be).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
I will totally give you that one my friend. This card is at home in a midrange deck. Abzan midrange 4 lyfe.