The counterspell/Mana leak alone is really what's getting me here, especially since Izzet Charm is conditional (NONcreature spell and paying a measly 2 to negate it) and Simic Charm doesn't have one at all (Presumably because having similar effects on more than one charm would be a bad design idea)
Also, the first and third modes seem to reinforce the fatties matter theme (well, obviously), but they require your own board state to already be ahead or at least even for either of them to be effective. Really, this sounds like a more aggressive charm than the Mardu Charm, which is pretty hilarious and may or may not be good depending on how good the rest of our clan's fatties is (are?).
Mmmh...definitely my least favorite of the cycle so far. Fight ability is ok, but would it have really hurt to make it a straight-up counterspell? It costs 3 mana and has a VERY color-intensive cost. I feel like unconditional "counter target spell" would have been fine. I'm never a big fan of those "creatures can't block this turn" abilities, though they can obviously end games quite well.
Don't they have a rule or something that says a hard counterspell has to have UU in its cost?
Temur Charm is good. The Mana Leak effect is still good at 3, because it doesn't become dead, which is one of the reasons why Mana Leak can be a bad card. Right about when this can't ever Leak anymore, you should have the creatures to turn it into creature removal...or player removal.
Neither Hindering Light nor Soul Manipuloation are hard counterspells. The onlycards that have violated that rule so far were Psychic Strike and Fall of the Gavel.
Neither Hindering Light nor Soul Manipuloation are hard counterspells. The onlycards that have violated that rule so far were Psychic Strike and Fall of the Gavel.
Hard counterspell - mana can't be paid to circumvent it. For example, Mana Leak is a "soft counterspell".
Conditional counterspell - some spells can't be targeted. Negate is a conditional counterspell.
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Commander R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
Oh, I had hard/unconditional fused in my head. Only that combination requires UU or U+another color. At no point in magic's history would Soul Manipulation or Hindering Light have required UU in their casting cost (strictly speaking, Hindering doesn't even require the white, though I suspect it'd cost 1UU as a monocolored spell).
This is the worst of the charms in my opinion. I don't think its playable.
Definitely not vintage or legacy playable, but more than enough for standard.
I don't see it. It doesn't do anything. First and third abilities seem too narrow and weak, but i guess I'm saying that without knowing what Temur as a whole looks like.
This is the worst of the charms in my opinion. I don't think its playable.
Definitely not vintage or legacy playable, but more than enough for standard.
I don't see it. It doesn't do anything. First and third abilities seem too narrow and weak, but i guess I'm saying that without knowing what Temur as a whole looks like.
Temur is supposed to be a Midrange thing through and through. The effects on this card work by either removing a problem creature for your fatty, stop someone else from playing a good creature early to block your fatty, or by preventing little weaklings from blocking your fatty.
Green and Redseem to haveplenty of ways to fulfill (Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker) the ferocious threshold without having to commit creatures to the battlefield.
This card has nothing to do with ferocious, so I don't know why are you are saying this.
Pretty solid. It complements Temur's strategies quite well, though it's mode require more from the caster to made good.
That's the leg that Sultai Charm has over the others, so far. Sultai Charm's abilities are straight up good. Jeskai, Temur and to a lesser extent Mardu, are more synergistic with what its clan is trying to do.
Pretty solid. It complements Temur's strategies quite well, though it's mode require more from the caster to made good.
That's the leg that Sultai Charm has over the others, so far. Sultai Charm's abilities are straight up good. Jeskai, Temur and to a lesser extent Mardu, are more synergistic with what its clan is trying to do.
I agree. Sultai easily outclasses the others. Especially since you can just cycle it away if you dont want it (and dig 1 deeper even).
Green and Redseem to haveplenty of ways to fulfill (Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker) the ferocious threshold without having to commit creatures to the battlefield.
This card has nothing to do with ferocious, so I don't know why are you are saying this.
Mostly because of the first and third mode of the spell requiring a 4 or more power creature on the field and how conditional that seems.
This charm will do some good work in the right deck even though Simic Charm seems better suited to mid-range.
Green and Redseem to haveplenty of ways to fulfill (Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker) the ferocious threshold without having to commit creatures to the battlefield.
This card has nothing to do with ferocious, so I don't know why are you are saying this.
Mostly because of the first and third mode of the spell requiring a 4 or more power creature on the field and how conditional that seems.
This charm will do some good work in the right deck even though Simic Charm seems better suited to mid-range.
I don't know what you mean. They don't require any such thing.
Green and Redseem to haveplenty of ways to fulfill (Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker) the ferocious threshold without having to commit creatures to the battlefield.
This card has nothing to do with ferocious, so I don't know why are you are saying this.
Mostly because of the first and third mode of the spell requiring a 4 or more power creature on the field and how conditional that seems.
This charm will do some good work in the right deck even though Simic Charm seems better suited to mid-range.
The first and third modes don't require a 4+ power creature, sure the first one benefits from that, but it only requires you to have a creature with power higher than the toughness of the one you want to kill, or even one less, and the third doesn't have anything to do with your creatures. It just prevents your opponent's smaller creatures from blocking.
I swear I first read it as Wingbonger...something tells me that "As Long as Wingbonger is paired with another creature, both creatures have weed." wouldn't be as good. Seems solid for limited.
But Surely we can all see that those conditions are easily met by having a 4/4 or larger? Especially since anyone building a Temur deck is likely to be trying to hit Ferocious for other cards anyway?
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Yea, this charm is certainly overrated. As is the clan and its mechanic. People seem to expect to "Ferocious" their spells all the time, as if they start the game with a 4/4 indestructible, hexproof creature. Ferocious certainly feels like a "win-more" mechanic. Roll your opponents when you're winning.
If Wizards could show me some Ferocious cards that get one out when in a pinch, then I might reconsider. For now, it's meh... Also thumbs down because it's pirated (from Naya).
Great Charm! quite charming! not the strongest, but still good and will win games
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but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Yea, this charm is certainly overrated. As is the clan and its mechanic. People seem to expect to "Ferocious" their spells all the time, as if they start the game with a 4/4 indestructible, hexproof creature. Ferocious certainly feels like a "win-more" mechanic. Roll your opponents when you're winning.
If Wizards could show me some Ferocious cards that get one out when in a pinch, then I might reconsider. For now, it's meh... Also thumbs down because it's pirated (from Naya).
Except the part where one of the defining decks of the upcoming standard season will pack swarms of low cost creatures, kind of a problem for pushing damage through with bigger guys. Also, is there a point to commenting to say how bad every single card is from every set released for the last X sets?
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Neither Hindering Light nor Soul Manipuloation are hard counterspells. The onlycards that have violated that rule so far were Psychic Strike and Fall of the Gavel.
Just like there's no need for you to waste message board space whining.
Hard counterspell - mana can't be paid to circumvent it. For example, Mana Leak is a "soft counterspell".
Conditional counterspell - some spells can't be targeted. Negate is a conditional counterspell.
Hard, unconditional - Counterspell. Soft, unconditonal - Mana Leak. Hard, conditional - Negate. Soft, conditional - Spell Pierce.
Commander
R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control
GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock
WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
Definitely not vintage or legacy playable, but more than enough for standard.
I don't see it. It doesn't do anything. First and third abilities seem too narrow and weak, but i guess I'm saying that without knowing what Temur as a whole looks like.
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This card has nothing to do with ferocious, so I don't know why are you are saying this.
That's the leg that Sultai Charm has over the others, so far. Sultai Charm's abilities are straight up good. Jeskai, Temur and to a lesser extent Mardu, are more synergistic with what its clan is trying to do.
I agree. Sultai easily outclasses the others. Especially since you can just cycle it away if you dont want it (and dig 1 deeper even).
Mostly because of the first and third mode of the spell requiring a 4 or more power creature on the field and how conditional that seems.
This charm will do some good work in the right deck even though Simic Charm seems better suited to mid-range.
I don't know what you mean. They don't require any such thing.
The first and third modes don't require a 4+ power creature, sure the first one benefits from that, but it only requires you to have a creature with power higher than the toughness of the one you want to kill, or even one less, and the third doesn't have anything to do with your creatures. It just prevents your opponent's smaller creatures from blocking.
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Legacy
GG Aggro Elves GG
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
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If Wizards could show me some Ferocious cards that get one out when in a pinch, then I might reconsider. For now, it's meh... Also thumbs down because it's pirated (from Naya).
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Except the part where one of the defining decks of the upcoming standard season will pack swarms of low cost creatures, kind of a problem for pushing damage through with bigger guys. Also, is there a point to commenting to say how bad every single card is from every set released for the last X sets?