This card is meh, becasue it requires constant two mana to feed it, EVERY TURN; and not just two of the same color, but two of different colors, which makes it harder to maintain open mana.
Discarding stuff to Lotleth Troll was hardly card disadvantage in the Golgari pair and could be used whilst tapped out to save him from damage. Regeneration ability was considerably cheaper, too. 1 mana and one colour. Hell, Lotleth Troll would still be better nowadays because it helps Delve. And yet, Troll, while being a fun card to play, was never backbreaking or a staple. This card is much, much worse and the limited argument hardly explain its rarity. This card is barely more powerful in limited than Beetleform Mage, which was a common.
Lotleth Troll existed in the last standard. This exists in today's. I played Lotleth Troll in decks, and I know exactly why he wasn't commonly played. The most popular decks could easily deal with him and exploit his card disadvantage. UW Control had Azorius Charm, counters, Detention Sphere, Banishing Light, and Celestial Flare. MUD had Tidebinder, Cyclonic Rift (gets rid of counters), Rapid Hybridization, and Domestication. MBD had Devour Flesh, Bile Blight, Drown in Sorrows, and Putrefy.
Against almost ANY popular deck, you either had a 2/1 that could regenerate through only a few relevant removal spells or a stronger creature that put you multiple cards behind your opponent and was game-over if he got removed. He was good against aggro decks and green-based midrange decks but suffered hard against everything else.
In this standard there are far less exile, sacrifice, no regeneration and edict cards to contend with and the Deathdealer doesn't need to eat 3 creatures to survive Bile Blight. If Lotleth was in today's standard, he'd be a lot stronger as well. But he isn't, and Deathdealer is. In this standard Deathdealer is the best aggro 2-drop, able to attack through Caryatid/Courser while surviving basically any removal with mana open and staying relevant later in the game.
I will not discuss that this card will have its uses and maybe some people will use it. I very much doubt it will be a T2 staple, mostly because in order to survive you need to leave TWO mana open per turn. Two, in the early game is so, so much more than 1! It's a sizeable chunk of your available mana all the way till your 6th land drop. Especially if you want to actually push through those caryatids and use his pump ability. Who cares if it is resilient if to keep it around and be more than a hard to cast bear you basically have to stop playing other cards for the next 5 turns? Opponents will just keep playing threats and when you finally buckle and play answers or other threats of your own, the removal that has been sitting on their hands all that time will get a time to shine. By then, the tempo advantage will be insurmountable.
But you know? That's fine. I'm perfectly aware that not all cards need to be Lotleth Troll (which by your own admission would still be better if it existed in this Standard) nor Putrid Leech which is inarguably better in any environment. The main problem people have with this card is that it is a rare. It doesn't feel like a rare, it is not going to break any limited games more than Beetleform Mage did, it's not exciting or cool and it's definitely not going to be worth more than a quarter or win any tournament. It's just a bear with two costly, hard to pay abilities, that are merely a pump and a keyword. Hell, it's not even a black card at all, besides the creature type. I'm ok when Wizards prints "bad rares" if they are quirky, or build-around-me Johnny fodder, or even, just seemingly impressive brutes for Timmy. This just looks like an attempt at making an aggro power uncommon on the line of the aforementioned cards that both failed to be powerful and then was made a rare. Will be not surprised to know that it started as a 2G uncommon but had to scrap their previous BG Rare at the last moment and it was quickly moved in as a replacement.
Typing this I figured what this card actually is: A Rootwalla with a tacked on, expensive regeneration clause. Same cost, because a second colour usually is often valued as much as 2 in card design. So take a Rootwalla, add "BG: Regenerate" and allow it to buff multiple times (something that you hardly ever will do) and the card makes a jump from common to rare?
You don't need to hold 2 CMC open for this guy at all times to use him. If I'm playing him in an aggro deck, a lot of times I'm just going to go ahead and put down my 3-drop or a few one drops. The point is that he CAN at any point pump himself or regenerate himself. You can choose whether or not to use that ability, but your opponent must play around it.
The
In your typical aggro deck, that T2 Courser or Caryatid is a backbreaker. Against this guy, they get the choice of letting him through or losing their creature. If you can take either creature, you just got a free kill spell for BG. If you hit them, you got in 2-4 damage that you wouldn't normally get. Then get to choose whether it is more valuable to get immediate damage or drop Anafenza, or keep the mana floating. You shouldn't assume that he has Cumulative Upkeep - BG when he is all about giving players choices.
In an aggro deck, he's playing the part of Ash Zealot or Spiteful Returned. The difference is that this guy has more options. He can punch through a wall, or even a fattie with enough mana open, whereas other aggro 2-drops will always just be stonewalled. If you keep drawing lands he keeps the game from being an instant loss by staying on the battlefield, and if you get better threats he is perfectly serviceable as just a bear. He's not just a continual drain of resources, he's a constant source of options that aggro decks usually don't have.
Discarding stuff to Lotleth Troll was hardly card disadvantage in the Golgari pair and could be used whilst tapped out to save him from damage. Regeneration ability was considerably cheaper, too. 1 mana and one colour. Hell, Lotleth Troll would still be better nowadays because it helps Delve. And yet, Troll, while being a fun card to play, was never backbreaking or a staple. This card is much, much worse and the limited argument hardly explain its rarity. This card is barely more powerful in limited than Beetleform Mage, which was a common.
Lotleth Troll existed in the last standard. This exists in today's. I played Lotleth Troll in decks, and I know exactly why he wasn't commonly played. The most popular decks could easily deal with him and exploit his card disadvantage. UW Control had Azorius Charm, counters, Detention Sphere, Banishing Light, and Celestial Flare. MUD had Tidebinder, Cyclonic Rift (gets rid of counters), Rapid Hybridization, and Domestication. MBD had Devour Flesh, Bile Blight, Drown in Sorrows, and Putrefy.
Against almost ANY popular deck, you either had a 2/1 that could regenerate through only a few relevant removal spells or a stronger creature that put you multiple cards behind your opponent and was game-over if he got removed. He was good against aggro decks and green-based midrange decks but suffered hard against everything else.
In this standard there are far less exile, sacrifice, no regeneration and edict cards to contend with and the Deathdealer doesn't need to eat 3 creatures to survive Bile Blight. If Lotleth was in today's standard, he'd be a lot stronger as well. But he isn't, and Deathdealer is. In this standard Deathdealer is the best aggro 2-drop, able to attack through Caryatid/Courser while surviving basically any removal with mana open and staying relevant later in the game.
I will not discuss that this card will have its uses and maybe some people will use it. I very much doubt it will be a T2 staple, mostly because in order to survive you need to leave TWO mana open per turn. Two, in the early game is so, so much more than 1! It's a sizeable chunk of your available mana all the way till your 6th land drop. Especially if you want to actually push through those caryatids and use his pump ability. Who cares if it is resilient if to keep it around and be more than a hard to cast bear you basically have to stop playing other cards for the next 5 turns? Opponents will just keep playing threats and when you finally buckle and play answers or other threats of your own, the removal that has been sitting on their hands all that time will get a time to shine. By then, the tempo advantage will be insurmountable.
But you know? That's fine. I'm perfectly aware that not all cards need to be Lotleth Troll (which by your own admission would still be better if it existed in this Standard) nor Putrid Leech which is inarguably better in any environment. The main problem people have with this card is that it is a rare. It doesn't feel like a rare, it is not going to break any limited games more than Beetleform Mage did, it's not exciting or cool and it's definitely not going to be worth more than a quarter or win any tournament. It's just a bear with two costly, hard to pay abilities, that are merely a pump and a keyword. Hell, it's not even a black card at all, besides the creature type. I'm ok when Wizards prints "bad rares" if they are quirky, or build-around-me Johnny fodder, or even, just seemingly impressive brutes for Timmy. This just looks like an attempt at making an aggro power uncommon on the line of the aforementioned cards that both failed to be powerful and then was made a rare. Will be not surprised to know that it started as a 2G uncommon but had to scrap their previous BG Rare at the last moment and it was quickly moved in as a replacement.
Typing this I figured what this card actually is: A Rootwalla with a tacked on, expensive regeneration clause. Same cost, because a second colour usually is often valued as much as 2 in card design. So take a Rootwalla, add "BG: Regenerate" and allow it to buff multiple times (something that you hardly ever will do) and the card makes a jump from common to rare?
You don't need to hold 2 CMC open for this guy at all times to use him. If I'm playing him in an aggro deck, a lot of times I'm just going to go ahead and put down my 3-drop or a few one drops. The point is that he CAN at any point pump himself or regenerate himself. You can choose whether or not to use that ability, but your opponent must play around it.
The
In your typical aggro deck, that T2 Courser or Caryatid is a backbreaker. Against this guy, they get the choice of letting him through or losing their creature. If you can take either creature, you just got a free kill spell for BG. If you hit them, you got in 2-4 damage that you wouldn't normally get. Then get to choose whether it is more valuable to get immediate damage or drop Anafenza, or keep the mana floating. You shouldn't assume that he has Cumulative Upkeep - BG when he is all about giving players choices.
In an aggro deck, he's playing the part of Ash Zealot or Spiteful Returned. The difference is that this guy has more options. He can punch through a wall, or even a fattie with enough mana open, whereas other aggro 2-drops will always just be stonewalled. If you keep drawing lands he keeps the game from being an instant loss by staying on the battlefield, and if you get better threats he is perfectly serviceable as just a bear. He's not just a continual drain of resources, he's a constant source of options that aggro decks usually don't have.
That's why I started my reply agreeing that it will have its uses. Certainly not as a staple, but if a viable (X)BG aggro strategy exists, surely you can fit this guy somewhere and not be too disgruntled about it. The whole point of my reply and of the overemphasising its shortcomings was that this card should not be a rare, not that it shouldn't exist or that it should be better.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Discarding stuff to Lotleth Troll was hardly card disadvantage in the Golgari pair and could be used whilst tapped out to save him from damage. Regeneration ability was considerably cheaper, too. 1 mana and one colour. Hell, Lotleth Troll would still be better nowadays because it helps Delve. And yet, Troll, while being a fun card to play, was never backbreaking or a staple. This card is much, much worse and the limited argument hardly explain its rarity. This card is barely more powerful in limited than Beetleform Mage, which was a common.
Lotleth Troll existed in the last standard. This exists in today's. I played Lotleth Troll in decks, and I know exactly why he wasn't commonly played. The most popular decks could easily deal with him and exploit his card disadvantage. UW Control had Azorius Charm, counters, Detention Sphere, Banishing Light, and Celestial Flare. MUD had Tidebinder, Cyclonic Rift (gets rid of counters), Rapid Hybridization, and Domestication. MBD had Devour Flesh, Bile Blight, Drown in Sorrows, and Putrefy.
Against almost ANY popular deck, you either had a 2/1 that could regenerate through only a few relevant removal spells or a stronger creature that put you multiple cards behind your opponent and was game-over if he got removed. He was good against aggro decks and green-based midrange decks but suffered hard against everything else.
In this standard there are far less exile, sacrifice, no regeneration and edict cards to contend with and the Deathdealer doesn't need to eat 3 creatures to survive Bile Blight. If Lotleth was in today's standard, he'd be a lot stronger as well. But he isn't, and Deathdealer is. In this standard Deathdealer is the best aggro 2-drop, able to attack through Caryatid/Courser while surviving basically any removal with mana open and staying relevant later in the game.
I will not discuss that this card will have its uses and maybe some people will use it. I very much doubt it will be a T2 staple, mostly because in order to survive you need to leave TWO mana open per turn. Two, in the early game is so, so much more than 1! It's a sizeable chunk of your available mana all the way till your 6th land drop. Especially if you want to actually push through those caryatids and use his pump ability. Who cares if it is resilient if to keep it around and be more than a hard to cast bear you basically have to stop playing other cards for the next 5 turns? Opponents will just keep playing threats and when you finally buckle and play answers or other threats of your own, the removal that has been sitting on their hands all that time will get a time to shine. By then, the tempo advantage will be insurmountable.
But you know? That's fine. I'm perfectly aware that not all cards need to be Lotleth Troll (which by your own admission would still be better if it existed in this Standard) nor Putrid Leech which is inarguably better in any environment. The main problem people have with this card is that it is a rare. It doesn't feel like a rare, it is not going to break any limited games more than Beetleform Mage did, it's not exciting or cool and it's definitely not going to be worth more than a quarter or win any tournament. It's just a bear with two costly, hard to pay abilities, that are merely a pump and a keyword. Hell, it's not even a black card at all, besides the creature type. I'm ok when Wizards prints "bad rares" if they are quirky, or build-around-me Johnny fodder, or even, just seemingly impressive brutes for Timmy. This just looks like an attempt at making an aggro power uncommon on the line of the aforementioned cards that both failed to be powerful and then was made a rare. Will be not surprised to know that it started as a 2G uncommon but had to scrap their previous BG Rare at the last moment and it was quickly moved in as a replacement.
Typing this I figured what this card actually is: A Rootwalla with a tacked on, expensive regeneration clause. Same cost, because a second colour usually is often valued as much as 2 in card design. So take a Rootwalla, add "BG: Regenerate" and allow it to buff multiple times (something that you hardly ever will do) and the card makes a jump from common to rare?
You don't need to hold 2 CMC open for this guy at all times to use him. If I'm playing him in an aggro deck, a lot of times I'm just going to go ahead and put down my 3-drop or a few one drops. The point is that he CAN at any point pump himself or regenerate himself. You can choose whether or not to use that ability, but your opponent must play around it.
The
In your typical aggro deck, that T2 Courser or Caryatid is a backbreaker. Against this guy, they get the choice of letting him through or losing their creature. If you can take either creature, you just got a free kill spell for BG. If you hit them, you got in 2-4 damage that you wouldn't normally get. Then get to choose whether it is more valuable to get immediate damage or drop Anafenza, or keep the mana floating. You shouldn't assume that he has Cumulative Upkeep - BG when he is all about giving players choices.
In an aggro deck, he's playing the part of Ash Zealot or Spiteful Returned. The difference is that this guy has more options. He can punch through a wall, or even a fattie with enough mana open, whereas other aggro 2-drops will always just be stonewalled. If you keep drawing lands he keeps the game from being an instant loss by staying on the battlefield, and if you get better threats he is perfectly serviceable as just a bear. He's not just a continual drain of resources, he's a constant source of options that aggro decks usually don't have.
That's why I started my reply agreeing that it will have its uses. Certainly not as a staple, but if a viable (X)BG aggro strategy exists, surely you can fit this guy somewhere and not be too disgruntled about it. The whole point of my reply and of the overemphasising its shortcomings was that this card should not be a rare, not that it shouldn't exist or that it should be better.
The first argument of yours is fallacious. A second color is not comparable to 2 at all. Would any of RTR charms be a playable at 2C ? Terminate is slightly better murder ? There's no way that sticks. These days a second color is the next easier thing to cast after a colorless cost. Even asking mana of the same color is more restrictive because you have to be deeper in a single color and that's a greater restriction then getting another color.
The second argument is also fallacious as this ability, costing one two, will very likely be used more then once when it's needed. For example, this ability makes this guy able to attack past Polukranos or the other many 4/4 creatures present in this set.
This is not aggro card, it's a mid range card / control card. It belongs to decks that wants to pay excessive mana to get board advantage.
For everyone making the comparison to Putrid Leech, leech would likely be contextually much worse in the upcoming standard than the one in which it was printed. Leech was so amazing not only because its pump ability was manaless, but also critically because it became a 4/4 in a format defined by Lightning Bolt. 4 was a magic toughness in that format as it survived bolt, could block or attack into the other early creatures in the format such as Sprouting Thrinax, Bloodbraid Elf, etc. Leech also didn't have to fight with Thoughtseize for deck space. Most decks don't have room for that much self mutillation (although there is more now that shocks are rotating). I could be wrong here, but I am fairly sure that the regeneration ability is the more important one here. The pump is useful to get past the expected early game blockers from green decks of course, and if it gets through, being able to scale up in size to kill any walker is pretty good. Affordable regeneration costs have long been underrated though, and if this card sees play, I believe that the regen will be more important to its success than its pump.
Lotleth Troll existed in the last standard. This exists in today's. I played Lotleth Troll in decks, and I know exactly why he wasn't commonly played. The most popular decks could easily deal with him and exploit his card disadvantage. UW Control had Azorius Charm, counters, Detention Sphere, Banishing Light, and Celestial Flare. MUD had Tidebinder, Cyclonic Rift (gets rid of counters), Rapid Hybridization, and Domestication. MBD had Devour Flesh, Bile Blight, Drown in Sorrows, and Putrefy.
Against almost ANY popular deck, you either had a 2/1 that could regenerate through only a few relevant removal spells or a stronger creature that put you multiple cards behind your opponent and was game-over if he got removed. He was good against aggro decks and green-based midrange decks but suffered hard against everything else.
In this standard there are far less exile, sacrifice, no regeneration and edict cards to contend with and the Deathdealer doesn't need to eat 3 creatures to survive Bile Blight. If Lotleth was in today's standard, he'd be a lot stronger as well. But he isn't, and Deathdealer is. In this standard Deathdealer is the best aggro 2-drop, able to attack through Caryatid/Courser while surviving basically any removal with mana open and staying relevant later in the game.
I will not discuss that this card will have its uses and maybe some people will use it. I very much doubt it will be a T2 staple, mostly because in order to survive you need to leave TWO mana open per turn. Two, in the early game is so, so much more than 1! It's a sizeable chunk of your available mana all the way till your 6th land drop. Especially if you want to actually push through those caryatids and use his pump ability. Who cares if it is resilient if to keep it around and be more than a hard to cast bear you basically have to stop playing other cards for the next 5 turns? Opponents will just keep playing threats and when you finally buckle and play answers or other threats of your own, the removal that has been sitting on their hands all that time will get a time to shine. By then, the tempo advantage will be insurmountable.
But you know? That's fine. I'm perfectly aware that not all cards need to be Lotleth Troll (which by your own admission would still be better if it existed in this Standard) nor Putrid Leech which is inarguably better in any environment. The main problem people have with this card is that it is a rare. It doesn't feel like a rare, it is not going to break any limited games more than Beetleform Mage did, it's not exciting or cool and it's definitely not going to be worth more than a quarter or win any tournament. It's just a bear with two costly, hard to pay abilities, that are merely a pump and a keyword. Hell, it's not even a black card at all, besides the creature type. I'm ok when Wizards prints "bad rares" if they are quirky, or build-around-me Johnny fodder, or even, just seemingly impressive brutes for Timmy. This just looks like an attempt at making an aggro power uncommon on the line of the aforementioned cards that both failed to be powerful and then was made a rare. Will be not surprised to know that it started as a 2G uncommon but had to scrap their previous BG Rare at the last moment and it was quickly moved in as a replacement.
Typing this I figured what this card actually is: A Rootwalla with a tacked on, expensive regeneration clause. Same cost, because a second colour usually is often valued as much as 2 in card design. So take a Rootwalla, add "BG: Regenerate" and allow it to buff multiple times (something that you hardly ever will do) and the card makes a jump from common to rare?
You don't need to hold 2 CMC open for this guy at all times to use him. If I'm playing him in an aggro deck, a lot of times I'm just going to go ahead and put down my 3-drop or a few one drops. The point is that he CAN at any point pump himself or regenerate himself. You can choose whether or not to use that ability, but your opponent must play around it.
The
In your typical aggro deck, that T2 Courser or Caryatid is a backbreaker. Against this guy, they get the choice of letting him through or losing their creature. If you can take either creature, you just got a free kill spell for BG. If you hit them, you got in 2-4 damage that you wouldn't normally get. Then get to choose whether it is more valuable to get immediate damage or drop Anafenza, or keep the mana floating. You shouldn't assume that he has Cumulative Upkeep - BG when he is all about giving players choices.
In an aggro deck, he's playing the part of Ash Zealot or Spiteful Returned. The difference is that this guy has more options. He can punch through a wall, or even a fattie with enough mana open, whereas other aggro 2-drops will always just be stonewalled. If you keep drawing lands he keeps the game from being an instant loss by staying on the battlefield, and if you get better threats he is perfectly serviceable as just a bear. He's not just a continual drain of resources, he's a constant source of options that aggro decks usually don't have.
That's why I started my reply agreeing that it will have its uses. Certainly not as a staple, but if a viable (X)BG aggro strategy exists, surely you can fit this guy somewhere and not be too disgruntled about it. The whole point of my reply and of the overemphasising its shortcomings was that this card should not be a rare, not that it shouldn't exist or that it should be better.
The first argument of yours is fallacious. A second color is not comparable to 2 at all. Would any of RTR charms be a playable at 2C ? Terminate is slightly better murder ? There's no way that sticks. These days a second color is the next easier thing to cast after a colorless cost. Even asking mana of the same color is more restrictive because you have to be deeper in a single color and that's a greater restriction then getting another color.
The second argument is also fallacious as this ability, costing one two, will very likely be used more then once when it's needed. For example, this ability makes this guy able to attack past Polukranos or the other many 4/4 creatures present in this set.
This is not aggro card, it's a mid range card / control card. It belongs to decks that wants to pay excessive mana to get board advantage.
You're not using the word "fallacious" correctly. It means, literally speaking, "of or concerning fallacy" or "based on a mistaken belief," which doesn't describe the comparisons being discussed here.
One colored mana equaling two colorless is a thing WotC used to use a lot to determine power level vs. costs of cards. As I understand it, this continues to this day.
The RtR charms would have been even more playable at 2C, at least in decks that had one or two colors.
This card is deceptively good. The naysayers often can only be convinced after they've seen something in action and gotten over their initial biased reactions.
In terms of constructed, the 2 = C doesnt really apply, but it totally does in limited, at least for a degree.
In constructed you aim for the most mana efficient card, and you will have enough mana fixing that you can play the cards your deck wants to have, then the multicolor versions are allways superior.
But in Limited, a card that costs CCC is impossible to splash, while a 4C card is totally viable ; so that shows the logic is really a limited thing and applies quite well.
[Offtopic]
Holy Hell, put that gigantic quotes at least into "spoiler" tags, would be even better if the forum software would do that, its hillarious if quotes of quotes with just a tiny extra quote a gigantic wall of text. Fix that, really ...
I think this will see Standard play, 6 mana open you can pump him twice and swing with a 6/6. Also your opponent will not want to waste a kill spell knowing you have mana open to just regenerate him.
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Modern U Merfolk U UBR Death's Shadow UBR
EDH UR Jhoira of the Ghitu UR G Omnath, Locus of Mana G
This is one of those creatures that will feel a lot like the ooze. If played on turn two, it's annoying and you might want to think about dealing with it right away. Played on turn 8, holy ***** this thing is a problem how do i get rid of it?
This will see play and is likely much better than most give it credit.
I was hoping for "when a card in your GY gets Exiled [This Creatures Does Something Cool]". Also... really.. CONTROL creature? Aetherling is a control creature. Hell freaking Rainbow Efreet is a control creature. This... IS NOT a control creature. I don't think such a dull creature like this shouldn't exist. Also given how standard is, tapping for different colored mana is going to be VERY painful (Fetchlands, Painlands) or very slow (Scrylands and Trilands).
Rock plays a control game and doesn't have the mana base for either of those creatures.
I will not discuss that this card will have its uses and maybe some people will use it. I very much doubt it will be a T2 staple, mostly because in order to survive you need to leave TWO mana open per turn. Two, in the early game is so, so much more than 1! It's a sizeable chunk of your available mana all the way till your 6th land drop. Especially if you want to actually push through those caryatids and use his pump ability. Who cares if it is resilient if to keep it around and be more than a hard to cast bear you basically have to stop playing other cards for the next 5 turns? Opponents will just keep playing threats and when you finally buckle and play answers or other threats of your own, the removal that has been sitting on their hands all that time will get a time to shine. By then, the tempo advantage will be insurmountable.
But you know? That's fine. I'm perfectly aware that not all cards need to be Lotleth Troll (which by your own admission would still be better if it existed in this Standard) nor Putrid Leech which is inarguably better in any environment. The main problem people have with this card is that it is a rare. It doesn't feel like a rare, it is not going to break any limited games more than Beetleform Mage did, it's not exciting or cool and it's definitely not going to be worth more than a quarter or win any tournament. It's just a bear with two costly, hard to pay abilities, that are merely a pump and a keyword. Hell, it's not even a black card at all, besides the creature type. I'm ok when Wizards prints "bad rares" if they are quirky, or build-around-me Johnny fodder, or even, just seemingly impressive brutes for Timmy. This just looks like an attempt at making an aggro power uncommon on the line of the aforementioned cards that both failed to be powerful and then was made a rare. Will be not surprised to know that it started as a 2G uncommon but had to scrap their previous BG Rare at the last moment and it was quickly moved in as a replacement.
Typing this I figured what this card actually is: A Rootwalla with a tacked on, expensive regeneration clause. Same cost, because a second colour usually is often valued as much as 2 in card design. So take a Rootwalla, add "BG: Regenerate" and allow it to buff multiple times (something that you hardly ever will do) and the card makes a jump from common to rare?
You don't need to hold 2 CMC open for this guy at all times to use him. If I'm playing him in an aggro deck, a lot of times I'm just going to go ahead and put down my 3-drop or a few one drops. The point is that he CAN at any point pump himself or regenerate himself. You can choose whether or not to use that ability, but your opponent must play around it.
The
In your typical aggro deck, that T2 Courser or Caryatid is a backbreaker. Against this guy, they get the choice of letting him through or losing their creature. If you can take either creature, you just got a free kill spell for BG. If you hit them, you got in 2-4 damage that you wouldn't normally get. Then get to choose whether it is more valuable to get immediate damage or drop Anafenza, or keep the mana floating. You shouldn't assume that he has Cumulative Upkeep - BG when he is all about giving players choices.
In an aggro deck, he's playing the part of Ash Zealot or Spiteful Returned. The difference is that this guy has more options. He can punch through a wall, or even a fattie with enough mana open, whereas other aggro 2-drops will always just be stonewalled. If you keep drawing lands he keeps the game from being an instant loss by staying on the battlefield, and if you get better threats he is perfectly serviceable as just a bear. He's not just a continual drain of resources, he's a constant source of options that aggro decks usually don't have.
That's why I started my reply agreeing that it will have its uses. Certainly not as a staple, but if a viable (X)BG aggro strategy exists, surely you can fit this guy somewhere and not be too disgruntled about it. The whole point of my reply and of the overemphasising its shortcomings was that this card should not be a rare, not that it shouldn't exist or that it should be better.
The first argument of yours is fallacious. A second color is not comparable to 2 at all. Would any of RTR charms be a playable at 2C ? Terminate is slightly better murder ? There's no way that sticks. These days a second color is the next easier thing to cast after a colorless cost. Even asking mana of the same color is more restrictive because you have to be deeper in a single color and that's a greater restriction then getting another color.
The second argument is also fallacious as this ability, costing one two, will very likely be used more then once when it's needed. For example, this ability makes this guy able to attack past Polukranos or the other many 4/4 creatures present in this set.
This is not aggro card, it's a mid range card / control card. It belongs to decks that wants to pay excessive mana to get board advantage.
You're not using the word "fallacious" correctly. It means, literally speaking, "of or concerning fallacy" or "based on a mistaken belief," which doesn't describe the comparisons being discussed here.
One colored mana equaling two colorless is a thing WotC used to use a lot to determine power level vs. costs of cards. As I understand it, this continues to this day.
The RtR charms would have been even more playable at 2C, at least in decks that had one or two colors.
This card is deceptively good. The naysayers often can only be convinced after they've seen something in action and gotten over their initial biased reactions.
It is used precisely as "based on a mistaken belief". Comparing 2 against a mana of different color involves two very different aspects of deck building (color distribution vs. mana curve). The mistaken belief here is the idea that those are easily comparable.
The colors of a card only means that card can be played in a lower number of decks but it doesn't change it's impact on those decks specifically. As long as the card is not bound to archtypes that are almost impossible to form (5c) or very, very difficult (4c) being multicolor is of small disadvantage. Being mono color means the card potentially fits 11/25 deck colors while having two colors means the card fits 4/25. It is a large drop in potential homes but power level alone will dictate if the potential will convert in actual playability.
The CMC of the card is of much bigger concern because it is directly connected to it's power level. While the colors determines what decks the card might fit in, the cmc determines if the card actually fits in those decks. A cmc 3 card will dispute places with other cmc 3+ cards and if it's not good enough it will see zero play. Now the fact that each deck will be facing each other deck of the metagame only aggravate this. It means the creature must not only be good enough in it's color but must be good enough against all other colors. This is the very reason why a card's have to be good compared to cards that are not of it's colors.
This is why a 3 3/3 creature would still be unplayable, for example. Blue do not get nissian coursers and this colorless card is better then any blue creature at that cmc. But since the card compares awfully to other cmc 3 creatures of other colors, blue would rather play no creatures at all, splash other color or simply being not playable in the meta before playing that. Now a 1C 3/3 would still be a staple in any color your put it.
In short, players do not choose colors and then seek the strong cards in that color. They choose colors that have strong cards in general. That's why being strong in one very specific archetype is favorable to being average in all. Meaning fitting a specific archtype is a small disadvantage compared to being weak against the card of equal cmc in other archtypes.
I agree this card is good. In fact it is a lot better then a rotwalla that regenerates and that's my point.
This is exactly a rootwalla that regenerates, no need to be a rare...along with lots of other cards in this set.
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Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
If Abrupt Decay were still Standard he would be better, as you could hold BG open to threat regeneration, pump or kill spell on your opponents turn. Lotleth Troll didn't have the support he needed to be good, at least not in Rav-Theros. Innistrad-Rav did better as you had Gravecrawler and Liliana of the Veil, but it was over shadowed by much better strategies (dang you Thragtusk). The troll is good, but very niche and needs support.
Now back on topic. He isn't bad in midrange, as a two or three of, as even in late game a resolved cat demon can cause some issues. There aren't many two drops that can do this. You can threaten some lesser kill spells, pump and regen, making combat with open mana hard to decipher what the correct move is. That being said he could have be an excellent uncommon, but as it stands he is a bulk rare. If his regenerate were one black and his pump was +1/+1 counter, or gave trample in addition to the temporary +2/+2 he would look much better.
As far as tapping the correct mana for his abilities being painful, we do have Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Running two of these and a few Llanowar Wastes and maybe Temple of Malady and a bunch of Forest. You'll always have green sources and the only damage you may take is from your black sources, which can be negated by the tomb. Along with Thoughtsieze, maybe Despise, you have the beginnings of a Bg midrange deck, using Gary as your finisher.
I dunno- it's definitely not the splashiest Rare ever,
but unlike some cards that got a rarity bump,
I can see how this card could be a problem in Limited.
Almost none of the removal in this set can deal with Regeneration,
so you can just play defensively until you have 6-8 lands
and then start really putting this guy to use.
The unlimited pump is better than some of you are giving it credit for,
especially with Regeneration also in the mix.
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This is exactly a rootwalla that regenerates, no need to be a rare...along with lots of other cards in this set.
It can grow more than 1 time, and it costs less.
Being multi-color is also a good thing if Sultai Charm might be played.
No question this card asks for a good green/black deck, it wants you to have enough mana to activate it multiple times, and that means, you get in free 2 mana each turn and if you have multiple activations, the opponent has to throw in blockers, which is all a fine deal.
What the card clearly doesnt do is to protect against other beatdown decks and the like.
Its just a solid 2 drop, its not a key-player, its just an overall good creature that asks for a black/green deck.
Being multi-color is also a good thing if Sultai Charm might be played.
No question this card asks for a good green/black deck, it wants you to have enough mana to activate it multiple times, and that means, you get in free 2 mana each turn and if you have multiple activations, the opponent has to throw in blockers, which is all a fine deal.
What the card clearly doesnt do is to protect against other beatdown decks and the like.
Its just a solid 2 drop, its not a key-player, its just an overall good creature that asks for a black/green deck.
I can't argue with that...it seems too mana intensive though, maybe that's OK.
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Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Personally this is among my favorite cards in the set. I play exclusively Legacy, but I do pay some attention to Standard, and while I don't think this card is anything close to a star-player, I believe it will be solid all around in a format where near every deck will be aiming towards 3 colors. It is easily played even at 2 different mana in this environment, and its condition is simply that the game lasts for an extended period of time, assuming that you qualify a "strict upgrade" in terms of most bears a condition. Obviously, at rare this is more pronounced, however I agree completely on some things touched on earlier regarding this card.
In my opinion, nerf is right on point with evaluating this card. It's not flashy or admirable....but it is inherently powerful and usable. I won't be upset if this card sees zero play in Standard, because I personally love it, and while that attributes to bias on my part...I still feel a 2/2 who only becomes more relevant as the game progresses will be a very powerful thing in the coming Standard environment.
I keep insisting that most of my point is that the card doesn't feel rare. I will no longer try to argue how much more powerful than a Rootwalla with regeneration this card is, I will let the metagame bring an end to that discussion one way or the other. My point is that it feels like a Rootwalla with regeneration, and as such, a terribly lackluster rare. If it is truly powerful, as many claim... it still could have been an uncommon!
I think Empathogen may be on the right track here, though. Now that removal is taking a backseat, regeneration may have become unmanageable in limited, thus forcing this card to be rare. I just wish that when deciding on making it a rare, they had given it more of an immediate and noticeable cool factor. 3/2 or one mana regeneration, or deathtouch, or vigilance. Anything. Lotleth Troll had that added pizzazz and lots of people were excited about it when it was spoiled, even though it went to have a lackluster performance in Standard. That's the stuff I am arguing here.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
You are joking if you think this has a place in the standard metagame. It does excellently in limited where your conditional removal costs 5 mana, but this doesn't stand a chance where people pack the best removal or even good ramp.
If people are using their relevant removal on this, it's already served it's purpose. The point of this card is to have a 2 drop that can scale into the late game. Early game bear, late game mana sink. That's it. If my opponents would Hero's Downfall this instead of something more relevant, I'm all for it. I don't really see a shell for it yet, but it could come up in the future.
It's a waste of a card that fits poorly into any game plan outside of limited. Is it good at aggro? No, because you have a slow bear and your mana is important. is it good in midrange? No, because its basically a bear that you have to continually waste mana on and gives your poor value.
If you're playing an aggro deck, and you play this turn two, and your opponent....What's removal these days? Bile Blights it,
Didn't they effectiely, within the confines of mana
And the context of the game thus far,
Use prime removal on a Walking Corpse?
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I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
It's a waste of a card that fits poorly into any game plan outside of limited. Is it good at aggro? No, because you have a slow bear and your mana is important. is it good in midrange? No, because its basically a bear that you have to continually waste mana on and gives your poor value.
lol?
with a title like "at least there's fetches" i assume you're just trolling us, but in case you're not: rakshasa deathdealer is a really solid card. it's great in midrange, especially. it's a mana dump, so run it accordingly. some cards require more thinking than others, and this is one of those thinking cards.
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
You don't need to hold 2 CMC open for this guy at all times to use him. If I'm playing him in an aggro deck, a lot of times I'm just going to go ahead and put down my 3-drop or a few one drops. The point is that he CAN at any point pump himself or regenerate himself. You can choose whether or not to use that ability, but your opponent must play around it.
The
In your typical aggro deck, that T2 Courser or Caryatid is a backbreaker. Against this guy, they get the choice of letting him through or losing their creature. If you can take either creature, you just got a free kill spell for BG. If you hit them, you got in 2-4 damage that you wouldn't normally get. Then get to choose whether it is more valuable to get immediate damage or drop Anafenza, or keep the mana floating. You shouldn't assume that he has Cumulative Upkeep - BG when he is all about giving players choices.
In an aggro deck, he's playing the part of Ash Zealot or Spiteful Returned. The difference is that this guy has more options. He can punch through a wall, or even a fattie with enough mana open, whereas other aggro 2-drops will always just be stonewalled. If you keep drawing lands he keeps the game from being an instant loss by staying on the battlefield, and if you get better threats he is perfectly serviceable as just a bear. He's not just a continual drain of resources, he's a constant source of options that aggro decks usually don't have.
That's why I started my reply agreeing that it will have its uses. Certainly not as a staple, but if a viable (X)BG aggro strategy exists, surely you can fit this guy somewhere and not be too disgruntled about it. The whole point of my reply and of the overemphasising its shortcomings was that this card should not be a rare, not that it shouldn't exist or that it should be better.
The first argument of yours is fallacious. A second color is not comparable to 2 at all. Would any of RTR charms be a playable at 2C ? Terminate is slightly better murder ? There's no way that sticks. These days a second color is the next easier thing to cast after a colorless cost. Even asking mana of the same color is more restrictive because you have to be deeper in a single color and that's a greater restriction then getting another color.
The second argument is also fallacious as this ability, costing one two, will very likely be used more then once when it's needed. For example, this ability makes this guy able to attack past Polukranos or the other many 4/4 creatures present in this set.
This is not aggro card, it's a mid range card / control card. It belongs to decks that wants to pay excessive mana to get board advantage.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
One colored mana equaling two colorless is a thing WotC used to use a lot to determine power level vs. costs of cards. As I understand it, this continues to this day.
The RtR charms would have been even more playable at 2C, at least in decks that had one or two colors.
This card is deceptively good. The naysayers often can only be convinced after they've seen something in action and gotten over their initial biased reactions.
In constructed you aim for the most mana efficient card, and you will have enough mana fixing that you can play the cards your deck wants to have, then the multicolor versions are allways superior.
But in Limited, a card that costs CCC is impossible to splash, while a 4C card is totally viable ; so that shows the logic is really a limited thing and applies quite well.
[Offtopic]
Holy Hell, put that gigantic quotes at least into "spoiler" tags, would be even better if the forum software would do that, its hillarious if quotes of quotes with just a tiny extra quote a gigantic wall of text. Fix that, really ...
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
U Merfolk U
UBR Death's Shadow UBR
EDH
UR Jhoira of the Ghitu UR
G Omnath, Locus of Mana G
This is one of those creatures that will feel a lot like the ooze. If played on turn two, it's annoying and you might want to think about dealing with it right away. Played on turn 8, holy ***** this thing is a problem how do i get rid of it?
This will see play and is likely much better than most give it credit.
Rock plays a control game and doesn't have the mana base for either of those creatures.
It is used precisely as "based on a mistaken belief". Comparing 2 against a mana of different color involves two very different aspects of deck building (color distribution vs. mana curve). The mistaken belief here is the idea that those are easily comparable.
The colors of a card only means that card can be played in a lower number of decks but it doesn't change it's impact on those decks specifically. As long as the card is not bound to archtypes that are almost impossible to form (5c) or very, very difficult (4c) being multicolor is of small disadvantage. Being mono color means the card potentially fits 11/25 deck colors while having two colors means the card fits 4/25. It is a large drop in potential homes but power level alone will dictate if the potential will convert in actual playability.
The CMC of the card is of much bigger concern because it is directly connected to it's power level. While the colors determines what decks the card might fit in, the cmc determines if the card actually fits in those decks. A cmc 3 card will dispute places with other cmc 3+ cards and if it's not good enough it will see zero play. Now the fact that each deck will be facing each other deck of the metagame only aggravate this. It means the creature must not only be good enough in it's color but must be good enough against all other colors. This is the very reason why a card's have to be good compared to cards that are not of it's colors.
This is why a 3 3/3 creature would still be unplayable, for example. Blue do not get nissian coursers and this colorless card is better then any blue creature at that cmc. But since the card compares awfully to other cmc 3 creatures of other colors, blue would rather play no creatures at all, splash other color or simply being not playable in the meta before playing that. Now a 1C 3/3 would still be a staple in any color your put it.
In short, players do not choose colors and then seek the strong cards in that color. They choose colors that have strong cards in general. That's why being strong in one very specific archetype is favorable to being average in all. Meaning fitting a specific archtype is a small disadvantage compared to being weak against the card of equal cmc in other archtypes.
I agree this card is good. In fact it is a lot better then a rotwalla that regenerates and that's my point.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Now back on topic. He isn't bad in midrange, as a two or three of, as even in late game a resolved cat demon can cause some issues. There aren't many two drops that can do this. You can threaten some lesser kill spells, pump and regen, making combat with open mana hard to decipher what the correct move is. That being said he could have be an excellent uncommon, but as it stands he is a bulk rare. If his regenerate were one black and his pump was +1/+1 counter, or gave trample in addition to the temporary +2/+2 he would look much better.
As far as tapping the correct mana for his abilities being painful, we do have Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Running two of these and a few Llanowar Wastes and maybe Temple of Malady and a bunch of Forest. You'll always have green sources and the only damage you may take is from your black sources, which can be negated by the tomb. Along with Thoughtsieze, maybe Despise, you have the beginnings of a Bg midrange deck, using Gary as your finisher.
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but unlike some cards that got a rarity bump,
I can see how this card could be a problem in Limited.
Almost none of the removal in this set can deal with Regeneration,
so you can just play defensively until you have 6-8 lands
and then start really putting this guy to use.
The unlimited pump is better than some of you are giving it credit for,
especially with Regeneration also in the mix.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It can grow more than 1 time, and it costs less.
Being multi-color is also a good thing if Sultai Charm might be played.
No question this card asks for a good green/black deck, it wants you to have enough mana to activate it multiple times, and that means, you get in free 2 mana each turn and if you have multiple activations, the opponent has to throw in blockers, which is all a fine deal.
What the card clearly doesnt do is to protect against other beatdown decks and the like.
Its just a solid 2 drop, its not a key-player, its just an overall good creature that asks for a black/green deck.
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It can grow more than 1 time, and it costs less.
Being multi-color is also a good thing if Sultai Charm might be played.
No question this card asks for a good green/black deck, it wants you to have enough mana to activate it multiple times, and that means, you get in free 2 mana each turn and if you have multiple activations, the opponent has to throw in blockers, which is all a fine deal.
What the card clearly doesnt do is to protect against other beatdown decks and the like.
Its just a solid 2 drop, its not a key-player, its just an overall good creature that asks for a black/green deck.
I can't argue with that...it seems too mana intensive though, maybe that's OK.
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
In my opinion, nerf is right on point with evaluating this card. It's not flashy or admirable....but it is inherently powerful and usable. I won't be upset if this card sees zero play in Standard, because I personally love it, and while that attributes to bias on my part...I still feel a 2/2 who only becomes more relevant as the game progresses will be a very powerful thing in the coming Standard environment.
I think Empathogen may be on the right track here, though. Now that removal is taking a backseat, regeneration may have become unmanageable in limited, thus forcing this card to be rare. I just wish that when deciding on making it a rare, they had given it more of an immediate and noticeable cool factor. 3/2 or one mana regeneration, or deathtouch, or vigilance. Anything. Lotleth Troll had that added pizzazz and lots of people were excited about it when it was spoiled, even though it went to have a lackluster performance in Standard. That's the stuff I am arguing here.
Bile Blights it,
Didn't they effectiely, within the confines of mana
And the context of the game thus far,
Use prime removal on a Walking Corpse?
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
lol?
with a title like "at least there's fetches" i assume you're just trolling us, but in case you're not: rakshasa deathdealer is a really solid card. it's great in midrange, especially. it's a mana dump, so run it accordingly. some cards require more thinking than others, and this is one of those thinking cards.
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Does not have deathtouch
2/10 would not play