Black isn't supposed to get card draw equal to blue. At rare, blue gets "If you hit with a creature, draw a card", why would black get that at uncommon? The life loss by itself would only make this acceptable as a black rare.
Coastal Piracy was printed as an uncommon before being bumped to rare at a core set. I think a tribal-only version that costs you life is fine at uncommon, even in black.
Black isn't supposed to get card draw equal to blue. At rare, blue gets "If you hit with a creature, draw a card", why would black get that at uncommon? The life loss by itself would only make this acceptable as a black rare.
Coastal Piracy was printed as an uncommon before being bumped to rare at a core set. I think a tribal-only version that costs you life is fine at uncommon, even in black.
I agree. What they're talking about is a non-tribal version of the card, that simply said "Whenever a creature you control..." rather than specifying warrior would be printable. I'd honestly be wary about even that much at rare, given that Black is somewhere around third in card drawing (or tied for second) in the current color pie. I definitely wouldn't want it at uncommon, Coastal Piracy precedent or not.
So does dark confidant your point being? Life is a resource, use it. And the fact is losing life is likely irrelevant when the deck playing this is the aggro deck, not control. Aggro doesn't care about its life total nearly as much as control.
I know that, but the lifeloss counteracts the +1/+0 when playing against non-control decks. So this would really just be an easier to splash Coastal Piracy if it was for all creatures, though admittedly the +1/+0 would be better despite the lifeloss a lot of the time. But even if it was slightly better than Bident, would it be too good? And do we really deserve to get this trash instead?
Black isn't supposed to get card draw equal to blue. At rare, blue gets "If you hit with a creature, draw a card", why would black get that at uncommon? The life loss by itself would only make this acceptable as a black rare.
Rarity has nothing to do with the color pie. If black can have this effect, it can occur at any rarity. The difference is because of the difference in the way the cards interact with the limited format. Coastal Piracy is a powerful effect in the right deck. Bident is basically an easy addition to any blue deck, while this is a build-around uncommon meant to reward players for drafting a tribal deck. Since rarity doesn't matter, the secondary abilities for both cards are both on-color, and bident doesn't require life loss, the card is fine color pie wise.
orcish oriflamme was never a thing at 3 mana making the pump active at all times and tacking on a warrior tribe life loss based ophidian ability doesn't push it to 4 mana. For this to have any chance you would need to be warrior tribal preferably with a lot of cheap token producers and even then I don't see that playing this is better than just playing Obelisk of Urd for the +2/+2 instead.
orcish oriflamme was never a thing at 3 mana making the pump active at all times and tacking on a warrior tribe life loss based ophidian ability doesn't push it to 4 mana. For this to have any chance you would need to be warrior tribal preferably with a lot of cheap token producers and even then I don't see that playing this is better than just playing Obelisk of Urd for the +2/+2 instead.
Orcish Oriflamme was never costed at three mana. In addition, the fact that it works on defense as well is not a non-factor. Being able to trade up your tokens efficently on the defense instead of chumping is a huge boon.
This set is going to be the worst set ever. now, I know why we have fetch lands in this set
Well Wizards said they will be toning down the power level of cards through next few blocks, so I guess they are starting here.
I have been playing for more than 15 years now and I don't like how much dumber Wizards madee this game from removing damage on stack until now. But I feel even more dumber because I'm still playing it. I guess I will quit when Magic will become next Yu-Gi-Oh.
/end offtopic rant
Magic is toning down its power so it doesn't become the next YuGiOh. The skill required to play yugioh did drop, but only with the advent of thematic, premade strategies which made games move too fast for a stable environment and implemented a stupidly long ban list just to try to maintain some semblance of order. The titans were a reaction to 4 mana wraths and cheap, splashable, counterspells (as well as all the other tools that made control a powerhouse), but the titans then made midrange a must use. They realized printing stronger and stronger cards was going to choke out the game's non-competitive audience (which is far greater than the rest) and so they're trying to fix the damn game.
orcish oriflamme was never a thing at 3 mana making the pump active at all times and tacking on a warrior tribe life loss based ophidian ability doesn't push it to 4 mana. For this to have any chance you would need to be warrior tribal preferably with a lot of cheap token producers and even then I don't see that playing this is better than just playing Obelisk of Urd for the +2/+2 instead.
orcish oriflamme costs 3R is uncommon and gives +1/+0 only to Attacking creatures you control... While this give the bonus to blockers as well...
The Draw ability is just a bonus to the card , as it is it is a stricly better orcish oriflamme... Don't see your point realy...
Obelisk of Urd just gives the bonus to one type of creature and to cast it you will have to stop attacking for one turn... This card while having a conditional draw based on a tribal esque effect , can see play in more decks just for the 1st effect , if the decks have warriors the second effect is just more combat madness to your oponent... ( the thing is you can play it in a deck with 8 warriors and call it a day , while for the obelisk to shine you need much more wariors )
Magic is toning down its power so it doesn't become the next YuGiOh. The skill required to play yugioh did drop, but only with the advent of thematic, premade strategies which made games move too fast for a stable environment and implemented a stupidly long ban list just to try to maintain some semblance of order. The titans were a reaction to 4 mana wraths and cheap, splashable, counterspells (as well as all the other tools that made control a powerhouse), but the titans then made midrange a must use. They realized printing stronger and stronger cards was going to choke out the game's non-competitive audience (which is far greater than the rest) and so they're trying to fix the damn game.
I'm in love with this post. It sums up my perspective perfectly. WotC is reeling back the power levels not because they hate you or modern, but because it was terrible and unsustainable. Zendikar and M11 were unbalanced messes that seemed to herald the decline of MtG. The Titans and Baneslayer are stupid cards that should not have been printed, but were because WotC was reacting to the environment they existed in rather than sucking it up and changing the environment itself.
Delver/Snappy are not the goals of set design, they are the mistakes. Theros was not lame because it was "underpowered," it was lame because the enchantment theme and mechanics were disappointing and underdeveloped. Let's not get ROTTY.
I'm very relieved that WotC has come around and begun to understand their own game, and I hope Post-Modern remains at this level forever. In 5 years when Modern rotates for the first time and the M15 frame becomes the new baseline we will have a format of reasonably fair cards. This would be A Good Thing for MtG.
I don't mind them printing "under-powered" cards as long as they are interesting, possibly inventing new types of decks. There was absolutely no way to keep up with emrakul - level stuff and they recognized it.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Magic is toning down its power so it doesn't become the next YuGiOh. The skill required to play yugioh did drop, but only with the advent of thematic, premade strategies which made games move too fast for a stable environment and implemented a stupidly long ban list just to try to maintain some semblance of order. The titans were a reaction to 4 mana wraths and cheap, splashable, counterspells (as well as all the other tools that made control a powerhouse), but the titans then made midrange a must use. They realized printing stronger and stronger cards was going to choke out the game's non-competitive audience (which is far greater than the rest) and so they're trying to fix the damn game.
I'm in love with this post. It sums up my perspective perfectly. WotC is reeling back the power levels not because they hate you or modern, but because it was terrible and unsustainable. Zendikar and M11 were unbalanced messes that seemed to herald the decline of MtG. The Titans and Baneslayer are stupid cards that should not have been printed, but were because WotC was reacting to the environment they existed in rather than sucking it up and changing the environment itself.
Delver/Snappy are not the goals of set design, they are the mistakes. Theros was not lame because it was "underpowered," it was lame because the enchantment theme and mechanics were disappointing and underdeveloped. Let's not get ROTTY.
I'm very relieved that WotC has come around and begun to understand their own game, and I hope Post-Modern remains at this level forever. In 5 years when Modern rotates for the first time and the M15 frame becomes the new baseline we will have a format of reasonably fair cards. This would be A Good Thing for MtG.
I really have to disagree here. I don't think a midrange/control top 8 would be a ton of fun. Wizards is trying to print more synergy power than outright like the Titans. More build around cards instead of play this and win. This is good for magic not "lets durdle for 10 turns before I swing for lethal every single game. My local LGS went from 40+ players every friday during Innistrad/RTR, to around 10+ for Theros. Almost all of the players claim to dislike Theros standard, as it's almost all midrange or control. Rouge decks pop up less often , and game states change on a geological time scale. While Theros is easier for new players, you need to support the older ones too.
This down turn is a phase in Magics history, there have been others before it, and there will be more powerful set to come. Just be happy it was powerful creatures and not spells like used to happen
Magic is toning down its power so it doesn't become the next YuGiOh. The skill required to play yugioh did drop, but only with the advent of thematic, premade strategies which made games move too fast for a stable environment and implemented a stupidly long ban list just to try to maintain some semblance of order. The titans were a reaction to 4 mana wraths and cheap, splashable, counterspells (as well as all the other tools that made control a powerhouse), but the titans then made midrange a must use. They realized printing stronger and stronger cards was going to choke out the game's non-competitive audience (which is far greater than the rest) and so they're trying to fix the damn game.
I'm in love with this post. It sums up my perspective perfectly. WotC is reeling back the power levels not because they hate you or modern, but because it was terrible and unsustainable. Zendikar and M11 were unbalanced messes that seemed to herald the decline of MtG. The Titans and Baneslayer are stupid cards that should not have been printed, but were because WotC was reacting to the environment they existed in rather than sucking it up and changing the environment itself.
Delver/Snappy are not the goals of set design, they are the mistakes. Theros was not lame because it was "underpowered," it was lame because the enchantment theme and mechanics were disappointing and underdeveloped. Let's not get ROTTY.
I'm very relieved that WotC has come around and begun to understand their own game, and I hope Post-Modern remains at this level forever. In 5 years when Modern rotates for the first time and the M15 frame becomes the new baseline we will have a format of reasonably fair cards. This would be A Good Thing for MtG.
I really have to disagree here. I don't think a midrange/control top 8 would be a ton of fun. Wizards is trying to print more synergy power than outright like the Titans. More build around cards instead of play this and win. This is good for magic not "lets durdle for 10 turns before I swing for lethal every single game. My local LGS went from 40+ players every friday during Innistrad/RTR, to around 10+ for Theros. Almost all of the players claim to dislike Theros standard, as it's almost all midrange or control. Rouge decks pop up less often , and game states change on a geological time scale. While Theros is easier for new players, you need to support the older ones too.
This down turn is a phase in Magics history, there have been others before it, and there will be more powerful set to come. Just be happy it was powerful creatures and not spells like used to happen
This is fair, I just think it begs the question "what exactly was wrong with Theros?"
I don't think power level was to blame, though that seems to be a common opinion. Theros' problems came from the block design itself. The Enchantment theme was a bust and the two expansions failed to evolve the format meaningfully throughout the year, leading to a stale format. If the entire block had kept up the overall quality of THS first set and constellation had been in from the start (in place of bestow, which could have rolled out in JOU instead), providing a synergistic alternative to stompy midrange in the meta, I wonder if opinions would be different.
Likewise I think The durdliness comes more from the battlecruiser mechanics in THS than the power level. I think making this a midrange format was deliberate on WOTCs part, not something that's inherent to a slightly lower average power scale.
And even with all that said... it was still a much healthier year than cawblade!
The overall environment of Zen/Scars was fun, sword of Feast and Famine and batterskull were poorly placed. Originally Caw-go was a nifty control deck
Sorry, off topic.
I actually like this card, should be cool in Black aggro EDH decks as a way to keep pushing and not fall way behind.Thumbs up!
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The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Theros as a block had no good aggro, even though control and midrange were huge. This was the biggest issue for me. Do I want to play a form of black control or some sort of blue control? Or I can go green red or black while for midrange. It was a game of rock paper. No scissors were included. On top of that they dropped the ball on enchantment matters and constellation/inspired were very weak. I never felt like I was going through an awesome line of play, and I would blame that on the power level of the individual cards.
The thing is I like playing midrange in modern, but it wasn't fun at all in this standard. While it was a healthier format than Cawblade, it was just as un fun.
Theros as a block had no good aggro, even though control and midrange were huge. This was the biggest issue for me. Do I want to play a form of black control or some sort of blue control? Or I can go green red or black while for midrange. It was a game of rock paper. No scissors were included. On top of that they dropped the ball on enchantment matters and constellation/inspired were very weak. I never felt like I was going through an awesome line of play, and I would blame that on the power level of the individual cards.
The thing is I like playing midrange in modern, but it wasn't fun at all in this standard. While it was a healthier format than Cawblade, it was just as un fun.
Agreed! So an uncommonly powerful format proved unfun, as did an uncommonly underpowered format. The implication is that power level does not make a format good or fun.
When people see a few weak cards and say "oh man Theros again," they don't realize it's a non-sequitor. There's no real correlation between that observation and their response.
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Coastal Piracy was printed as an uncommon before being bumped to rare at a core set. I think a tribal-only version that costs you life is fine at uncommon, even in black.
Rarity has nothing to do with the color pie. If black can have this effect, it can occur at any rarity. The difference is because of the difference in the way the cards interact with the limited format. Coastal Piracy is a powerful effect in the right deck. Bident is basically an easy addition to any blue deck, while this is a build-around uncommon meant to reward players for drafting a tribal deck. Since rarity doesn't matter, the secondary abilities for both cards are both on-color, and bident doesn't require life loss, the card is fine color pie wise.
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
Magic is toning down its power so it doesn't become the next YuGiOh. The skill required to play yugioh did drop, but only with the advent of thematic, premade strategies which made games move too fast for a stable environment and implemented a stupidly long ban list just to try to maintain some semblance of order. The titans were a reaction to 4 mana wraths and cheap, splashable, counterspells (as well as all the other tools that made control a powerhouse), but the titans then made midrange a must use. They realized printing stronger and stronger cards was going to choke out the game's non-competitive audience (which is far greater than the rest) and so they're trying to fix the damn game.
orcish oriflamme costs 3R is uncommon and gives +1/+0 only to Attacking creatures you control... While this give the bonus to blockers as well...
The Draw ability is just a bonus to the card , as it is it is a stricly better orcish oriflamme... Don't see your point realy...
Obelisk of Urd just gives the bonus to one type of creature and to cast it you will have to stop attacking for one turn... This card while having a conditional draw based on a tribal esque effect , can see play in more decks just for the 1st effect , if the decks have warriors the second effect is just more combat madness to your oponent... ( the thing is you can play it in a deck with 8 warriors and call it a day , while for the obelisk to shine you need much more wariors )
The tokens are not Warriors, only Goblins.
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
The tokens still get the pump, they just can't draw cards.
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Dishonor on you, dishonor on your family, dishonor on your cow...
I'm in love with this post. It sums up my perspective perfectly. WotC is reeling back the power levels not because they hate you or modern, but because it was terrible and unsustainable. Zendikar and M11 were unbalanced messes that seemed to herald the decline of MtG. The Titans and Baneslayer are stupid cards that should not have been printed, but were because WotC was reacting to the environment they existed in rather than sucking it up and changing the environment itself.
Delver/Snappy are not the goals of set design, they are the mistakes. Theros was not lame because it was "underpowered," it was lame because the enchantment theme and mechanics were disappointing and underdeveloped. Let's not get ROTTY.
I'm very relieved that WotC has come around and begun to understand their own game, and I hope Post-Modern remains at this level forever. In 5 years when Modern rotates for the first time and the M15 frame becomes the new baseline we will have a format of reasonably fair cards. This would be A Good Thing for MtG.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I really have to disagree here. I don't think a midrange/control top 8 would be a ton of fun. Wizards is trying to print more synergy power than outright like the Titans. More build around cards instead of play this and win. This is good for magic not "lets durdle for 10 turns before I swing for lethal every single game. My local LGS went from 40+ players every friday during Innistrad/RTR, to around 10+ for Theros. Almost all of the players claim to dislike Theros standard, as it's almost all midrange or control. Rouge decks pop up less often , and game states change on a geological time scale. While Theros is easier for new players, you need to support the older ones too.
This down turn is a phase in Magics history, there have been others before it, and there will be more powerful set to come. Just be happy it was powerful creatures and not spells like used to happen
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
This is fair, I just think it begs the question "what exactly was wrong with Theros?"
I don't think power level was to blame, though that seems to be a common opinion. Theros' problems came from the block design itself. The Enchantment theme was a bust and the two expansions failed to evolve the format meaningfully throughout the year, leading to a stale format. If the entire block had kept up the overall quality of THS first set and constellation had been in from the start (in place of bestow, which could have rolled out in JOU instead), providing a synergistic alternative to stompy midrange in the meta, I wonder if opinions would be different.
Likewise I think The durdliness comes more from the battlecruiser mechanics in THS than the power level. I think making this a midrange format was deliberate on WOTCs part, not something that's inherent to a slightly lower average power scale.
And even with all that said... it was still a much healthier year than cawblade!
Sorry, off topic.
I actually like this card, should be cool in Black aggro EDH decks as a way to keep pushing and not fall way behind.Thumbs up!
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
The thing is I like playing midrange in modern, but it wasn't fun at all in this standard. While it was a healthier format than Cawblade, it was just as un fun.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Agreed! So an uncommonly powerful format proved unfun, as did an uncommonly underpowered format. The implication is that power level does not make a format good or fun.
When people see a few weak cards and say "oh man Theros again," they don't realize it's a non-sequitor. There's no real correlation between that observation and their response.