So basically this set needs one card that people will break a few weeks after release and one versatile, cost-efficient removal spell and it goes from underwhelming to awesome?
I also require an efficient sideboard card that can hose like rest in peace
As long as we're giving requests, I'd like an efficient card draw spell, please.
If every card in the format gets to be "too slow" then a curious thing happens; they aren't too slow anymore. I would love to see the format slow down. There haven't really been a whole lot of undercosted creature spells revealed in the set yet (aside from the Abzhan mythic legend).
Not only is this card a joke when it comes to playability, but the art is just atrocious.
Are we seriously doing this kung fu panda meets avatar thing while keeping a straight face?
Did I suddenly started to play some cartoon based tcg game?
I liked this set so much, but this kind of uninspired, dumbed down, high mana cost cards printed as rares, with
AWFUL arts are too much, even for someone as positive towards KTK as me.
News flash: people expect kung-fu from a kung-fu inspired clan.
And just because the card costs more than 5 mana doesn't mean that it's either "uninspired" or "dumbed down". A card's effect doesn't have to be six lines of text long to be smart.
I mean, for modern at least, we arguably already got an efficient removal spell - Sultai Charm is amazing against spellskite because you can go around it, but unlike most other spellskite dodging destruction spells (ie Ultimate Price), you can use it effectively against affinity decks as well, so that's one more spot freed up in your sideboard. And then, if you don't need to hold onto it for whatever reason, you can even dump it for 2 new cards. Obviously, it's nowhere near as crazy good as Decay, just because of the uncounterability and near universal relevance of CMC 3 or less in extended formats, but I can easily see Sultai Charm being run in some modern decks.
So basically this set needs one card that people will break a few weeks after release and one versatile, cost-efficient removal spell and it goes from underwhelming to awesome?
I also require an efficient sideboard card that can hose like rest in peace
As long as we're giving requests, I'd like an efficient card draw spell, please.
Jace's Ingenuity not efficient enough? I am highly tempted to play either a 2-3 color cross wedge goodstuff or shoot for the moon and go with a 5 Color Goodstuff. We won't get a Rev again anytime soon.....
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTG Junky... First packs being a starter of each 4th Edition and Ice Age. Good Grief, I've been playing since 1995? Where does the time go!
Quote from Xcric »
this is mtgs, where occam's razor is so blunt it can't cut jello any more.
I am only disappointed that it doesn't give indestructible and cost 7. Because then it would be an ultimatum.
Sorry but if this is a cycle for each clan and they don't make a cycle of ultimatums I will be disappointed.
Everyone is entitled to their own views, you shouldn't yell at someone for disliking a product. I don't like Theros and I consider it to be a terrible block. Am I wrong? Whose to say? Im not living in North Korea and so am fully entitled to formulate my own opinions.
Also you can judge a set on how well it will do just by it's rares/mythics. Which by the way have already been 1/2 spoiled. We only (guessing here) have 7 more mythics to go and 31 rares. Yes I know uncommons can be stronger than your average rare but usually you judge a set on it's rares like boros reckoner or abrupt decay.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not all opinions are equal; they need to be backed up.
Even in very powerful sets, only a handful of cards are really constructed powerhouses. They'll have some good standard cards, maybe 1 or 2 Modern cards, and almost never anything for Legacy. That's honestly not a very high bar to hit. And if we look at the rares/mythics for potential playables so far, even being coservative, there's:
Wingmate Roc
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Rattleclaw Mystic
Anafenza the Foremost
Crackling Doom
Mardu Ascendancy
Sagu Mauler
Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Utter End
With only being ~55 cards into the set, that's pretty good.
I've finally figured out the demands of MTGS forumites!
This card might be powerful enough:
You Cry, I WinU
Instant
Discard your hand.
Search your library for any seven cards and put them into your hand.
Search your library for any seven cards and put them on top of your library in any order.
Not only is this card a joke when it comes to playability, but the art is just atrocious.
Are we seriously doing this kung fu panda meets avatar thing while keeping a straight face?
Did I suddenly started to play some cartoon based tcg game?
All you've done just now is confirmed your point of reference doesn't go past the last few years. There are plenty of us who are fans of old-school Chinese kung-fu movies, and relative to those, there's nothing offensive in this art. Pop-culture portrayal of kung-fu has always been over-the-top... there was nothing "cartoony" about Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and it had all of this stuff.
Everyone is entitled to their own views, you shouldn't yell at someone for disliking a product. I don't like Theros and I consider it to be a terrible block. Am I wrong? Whose to say? Im not living in North Korea and so am fully entitled to formulate my own opinions.
The "it's my opinion" argument is not much of an argument. All it says is that it's legal to say it, but not whether or not it's wrong.
Also you can judge a set on how well it will do just by it's rares/mythics. Which by the way have already been 1/2 spoiled. We only (guessing here) have 7 more mythics to go and 31 rares. Yes I know uncommons can be stronger than your average rare but usually you judge a set on it's rares like boros reckoner or abrupt decay.
Usually, yes.
However, there have been some pretty good uncommons and commons lately: Burning-Tree Emissary, Ghor-Clan Rampager, the Unleash creatures (particularly Rakdos Cackler), Doomed Traveler... I'm certain there are others. Rares are not the end-all, be-all of power. They're only the most obvious.
How in the world is this set bad? Everyone's raving about it so far, it has a wonderful depth of flavor, finally added wedges, and HAS FETCHES. Wait, let me guess, this is also proof of magic dying too right? And all sets are bad, etc.
Someone always has to cry about something.
This set is really solid. New ways to morph, new charms, wedges, fetches, and delve I wonder what is need to make it "not bad".
Good cards are needed mostly. This set is currently lacking in that
Good cards for what? What is your criteria? Legacy playable? Modern playable? There's only a quarter of the set and all of it is terrible, despite it having something everyone's clamored for for years.
One quarter of the set is generous, even, given that 20 of the "spoiled" cards so far are basic lands. I guess the mountains in this set are underwhelming?
I love that RTR is held up as the example of a sufficiently powerful/impactful set when the chase cards that see more than fringe eternal play are:
- A cycle of expensive land reprints that are only relevant in modern
- Deathrite Shaman - a mistake that was banned in modern before it had even rotated from standard
- Abrupt Decay
As others have noted, DRS was a sleeper and took many weeks for people to understand its power and impact. The fetches are far more impactful than the shocks, as they've never been in modern and also significantly reduce the barrier to legacy where shocks are unplayable.
So basically this set needs one card that people will break a few weeks after release and one versatile, cost-efficient removal spell and it goes from underwhelming to awesome?
I agree that people are being too critical, but if you are counting Modern as an eternal format then you are ignoring several Return to Ravnica cards that see/saw a lot of Modern play.
So, the new Sorin isn't "good"? What about Sultai charm? The new Sarkhan? Rattleclaw Mystic? The Ascendancy cycle? Those all seem pretty "good" to me. Also, this set has the fetchlands. That should be enough good stuff for now. Then again of course, I don't know what your standards are...
Depends on the format. There are a lot of modern players here as well, and for modern there hasn't been any nonland card so far. Maybe the Sultai charm would see play in the sideboard if there were a deck for it, but there isn't - and it's not really better than abrupt decay.
The new Sorin is awful in modern and sarkhan is way too expensive for what it does.
Rattleclaw Mystic is actually a good example for the drop in power level: Just compare him/her with Noble Hierarch and you'll see why the modern players are complaining.
edit: Actually Anafenza the Foremost might be played in pod-decks, I don't know. It's just that a lot people feel the modern format needs to be "shaken up" and the new set doesn't do this.
RtR has had more eternal effect than just DRS/Decay.
Detention Sphere is (or at least was) played in Miracles Rest in Peace is a highly played Sideboard card Supreme Verdict is played occasionally in Miracles and slower Stoneblade variants Sphinx's Revelation is played as a one-of in Modern UWR Control decks Wear//Tear is another highly played Sideboard card Enter the Infinite sees a lot of play in OmniShow lists Worldspine Wurm is occasionally played in Mono-red Sneak Attack lists
I'm probably forgetting a few too.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
So, the new Sorin isn't "good"? What about Sultai charm? The new Sarkhan? Rattleclaw Mystic? The Ascendancy cycle? Those all seem pretty "good" to me. Also, this set has the fetchlands. That should be enough good stuff for now. Then again of course, I don't know what your standards are...
Depends on the format. There are a lot of modern players here as well, and for modern there hasn't been any nonland card so far. Maybe the Sultai charm would see play in the sideboard if there were a deck for it, but there isn't - and it's not really better than abrupt decay.
The new Sorin is awful in modern and sarkhan is way too expensive for what it does.
Rattleclaw Mystic is actually a good example for the drop in power level: Just compare him/her with Noble Hierarch and you'll see why the modern players are complaining.
I think the issue people have with eternal formats is believing that increasing the power level is always a good thing. Noble Hierarch is VERY strong, I don't really want to see a 1 drop mana dork better than that.
As for Modern spoilers, Utter End has a chance of seeing play. 4CMC is a ton in Modern definitely, but instant speed non-land exile is nonexistant. I don't think it will see a ton of play, but it certainly has a chance. The card I think is most likely to see Modern play is Jeskai Charm, assuming it does something to the effect of "Loot", "Damage", "X".
I agree: The least thing modern needs is a rise in power level. I'd even agree to add a few particularly broken cards to the banlist (in particular goyf, bob, snap, clique and possibly bolt), so that non-broken stuff can still be played. Anyway, back to topic:
This card's art is terrible, but I'll be very happy to win games with it in limited. I doubt it will see a lot of standard play because it's a "win more" card.
Flying Crane Technique breakdown.
Untapping all your creatures costs about W or 1W.
There is no one turn mass all creatures gain flying. Aerial Formation is close with this and Prowess.
The double strike for all your creatures on an Instant is why it's so costly. Savage Beating cost 5 mana.
[insert men in tights reference]
"do you know praying MANTIS?????"
"brotha, u lookin at him!"
(BOTH) HYAHHHOOOWWWAAAYYYYYY!!!
Also, five finger death punch.
I wonder what other secret moves ugin taught these guys hahahahaha
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Yeah lookin' like a bulk rare to me. Will definitely be fun and swingy when it works out though, not much gets through an army of flying untapped doublestrikers.
For flavour, I like: "Do you even LIFT, bro?!?"
Ugh. Bad set is bad. Calling it early because it's obvious.
How in the world is this set bad? Everyone's raving about it so far, it has a wonderful depth of flavor, finally added wedges, and HAS FETCHES. Wait, let me guess, this is also proof of magic dying too right? And all sets are bad, etc.
While I agree it's way too early to call the set, I think he's talking about the power level, not the flavor. Also, the only thing I see people in agreement on is the Fetchlands. The argument "How can this be a bad set? It has fetchlands!" is not a good argument.
Constructed is about card efficiency and how the cards stand by themselves. 6 mana combat spell is too expensive and irrelevant to fast aggro plans, too do-nothing for tempo, and too unreliable for midrange strategies. I do like the card, but its win-more.
You're probably right, lol. Was trying really hard to defend the card. Well, at least it's going to be a fun way to finish some casual games.
The flavor text is, by the way, something along the lines of: "The Jeskai have many (fighting) styles. The 'river step' style that imitates the flow of water, the 'dragon style' that imitates the mighty hellkites, and the 'flying crane style' imitating the wild avens of the mountains."
That could mean two other style cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
As long as we're giving requests, I'd like an efficient card draw spell, please.
News flash: people expect kung-fu from a kung-fu inspired clan.
And just because the card costs more than 5 mana doesn't mean that it's either "uninspired" or "dumbed down". A card's effect doesn't have to be six lines of text long to be smart.
Jace's Ingenuity not efficient enough? I am highly tempted to play either a 2-3 color cross wedge goodstuff or shoot for the moon and go with a 5 Color Goodstuff. We won't get a Rev again anytime soon.....
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not all opinions are equal; they need to be backed up.
Even in very powerful sets, only a handful of cards are really constructed powerhouses. They'll have some good standard cards, maybe 1 or 2 Modern cards, and almost never anything for Legacy. That's honestly not a very high bar to hit. And if we look at the rares/mythics for potential playables so far, even being coservative, there's:
Wingmate Roc
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Rattleclaw Mystic
Anafenza the Foremost
Crackling Doom
Mardu Ascendancy
Sagu Mauler
Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Utter End
With only being ~55 cards into the set, that's pretty good.
EDH Decks
BGGlissa, the TraitorGB
URTibor and LumiaRU
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticBUW
UBSygg, River CutthroatBU
RGXenagos, God of RevelsGR
UGVorel of the Hull CladeGU
GBSavra, Queen of the GolgariBG
URGMaelstrom WandererGRU
This card might be powerful enough:
All you've done just now is confirmed your point of reference doesn't go past the last few years. There are plenty of us who are fans of old-school Chinese kung-fu movies, and relative to those, there's nothing offensive in this art. Pop-culture portrayal of kung-fu has always been over-the-top... there was nothing "cartoony" about Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and it had all of this stuff.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
The "it's my opinion" argument is not much of an argument. All it says is that it's legal to say it, but not whether or not it's wrong.
Usually, yes.
However, there have been some pretty good uncommons and commons lately: Burning-Tree Emissary, Ghor-Clan Rampager, the Unleash creatures (particularly Rakdos Cackler), Doomed Traveler... I'm certain there are others. Rares are not the end-all, be-all of power. They're only the most obvious.
----------------------------
Club Flamingo Wins: 10
----------------------------
EDH Decks
BG Vicious Varolz | RW Jor Kadeen, the Mean Machine | RG Atarka: Muh_Dragons.dec (WIP) | WU Brago, Blink Eternal (WIP)
----------------------------
I agree that people are being too critical, but if you are counting Modern as an eternal format then you are ignoring several Return to Ravnica cards that see/saw a lot of Modern play.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Depends on the format. There are a lot of modern players here as well, and for modern there hasn't been any nonland card so far. Maybe the Sultai charm would see play in the sideboard if there were a deck for it, but there isn't - and it's not really better than abrupt decay.
The new Sorin is awful in modern and sarkhan is way too expensive for what it does.
Rattleclaw Mystic is actually a good example for the drop in power level: Just compare him/her with Noble Hierarch and you'll see why the modern players are complaining.
edit: Actually Anafenza the Foremost might be played in pod-decks, I don't know. It's just that a lot people feel the modern format needs to be "shaken up" and the new set doesn't do this.
Detention Sphere is (or at least was) played in Miracles
Rest in Peace is a highly played Sideboard card
Supreme Verdict is played occasionally in Miracles and slower Stoneblade variants
Sphinx's Revelation is played as a one-of in Modern UWR Control decks
Wear//Tear is another highly played Sideboard card
Enter the Infinite sees a lot of play in OmniShow lists
Worldspine Wurm is occasionally played in Mono-red Sneak Attack lists
I'm probably forgetting a few too.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I think the issue people have with eternal formats is believing that increasing the power level is always a good thing. Noble Hierarch is VERY strong, I don't really want to see a 1 drop mana dork better than that.
As for Modern spoilers, Utter End has a chance of seeing play. 4CMC is a ton in Modern definitely, but instant speed non-land exile is nonexistant. I don't think it will see a ton of play, but it certainly has a chance. The card I think is most likely to see Modern play is Jeskai Charm, assuming it does something to the effect of "Loot", "Damage", "X".
EDH Decks
BGGlissa, the TraitorGB
URTibor and LumiaRU
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticBUW
UBSygg, River CutthroatBU
RGXenagos, God of RevelsGR
UGVorel of the Hull CladeGU
GBSavra, Queen of the GolgariBG
URGMaelstrom WandererGRU
This card's art is terrible, but I'll be very happy to win games with it in limited. I doubt it will see a lot of standard play because it's a "win more" card.
Also most of the charms; were those reprints?
-Anonymous
Untapping all your creatures costs about W or 1W.
There is no one turn mass all creatures gain flying. Aerial Formation is close with this and Prowess.
The double strike for all your creatures on an Instant is why it's so costly. Savage Beating cost 5 mana.
So 6 mana is a fair deal.
"do you know praying MANTIS?????"
"brotha, u lookin at him!"
(BOTH) HYAHHHOOOWWWAAAYYYYYY!!!
Also, five finger death punch.
I wonder what other secret moves ugin taught these guys hahahahaha
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
For flavour, I like: "Do you even LIFT, bro?!?"
.
in fact, when i saw this topic tittle, i thought it was a joke.
While I agree it's way too early to call the set, I think he's talking about the power level, not the flavor. Also, the only thing I see people in agreement on is the Fetchlands. The argument "How can this be a bad set? It has fetchlands!" is not a good argument.
That, or just foil a big swing from an opponent.
That could mean two other style cards.