I just lost hundreds of dollars overnight. So people could have fetchlands that WON'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE LANDFALL ISN'T AROUND AND THEY ARE NOT GOOD MANA FIXING WITHOUT REAL DUAL LANDS. But hey, gotta give the people what they want, even when they're wrong, and even when it causes Legacy players to lose hundreds of dollars in a snap of the fingers.
This is the absolute worst.
Not to mention, this makes Modern much worse, as manabases will be even greedier now.
First, it helps many players who couldn't afford Modern or your precious Legacy to get into those formats. That is completely worth it. Second, it won't make Modern worse. The decks that want to be stupid goodstuff decks generally can already. What it will do is allow Esper Control players to have the same kind of manabase as WUR Control players. And that is better for the format.
Also, if it wasn't for fetchland reprints, I wouldn't be able to get into Modern completely until after I graduated from college and got a full-time job. There are many other people like me in this. So I am sorry that you lost a few hundred bucks, but many more people saved money that the people who lost money.
Haha. Alright, sounds fun. You're on. Jan first then? Everyone else will be watching fireworks, and I'll be on my phone
January 1st my friend.
For what its worth, I really do hope you win this bet. I'm sure you'd enjoy the fetches, and I'm sure Id enjoy trading for as many as I can for 10 dollars of value. I mean, trading a nissa for 5 fetches? Count me in.
As someone who owns a playset of onslaught block fetchlands - damnit. My collection just got a whole lot less valuable/impressive.
I don't feel your pain. I was stopped from getting the deck of my dreams in Modern because of the fetchlands price spike. I can now make that deck. You should be ashamed of yourself for caring more about your own profits than about the good of Magic as a whole.
I guess I'm supposed to be ashamed of myself for being unhappy that the resale value of my collection just dropped by hundreds of dollars overnight?
No, you should feel silly for assuming that a bunch of cardboard rectangles would hold value indefinitely.
Oh, look at you making assumptions about what I thought! All I said was I'm sad that my collection is now less valuable. Why is this hard for people to understand?
Didnt Wizards say they've decided that dual land cycles in blocks will now be all 10 pairings? I feel like I read that back in some article talking about the scrylands.
Zendikar lands might take a hit just from people speculating on that
Didn't someone say that just KTK was going to be a wedge set through and through and the other 2 sets in KTK block will have wedge elements? Or am I wrong and all 3 sets will be completely wedge based. If just KTK set is wedges, then I don't think they'd reprint enemy fetch lands. If the whole block has a wedge core, I feel like they will almost certainly reprint enemy fetch lands.
They are going to reprint the whole thing. They don't do 5-card land cycles in a block anymore.
No, read the Latest Develments article where the painlands were spoiled. They've said they've come back from the rigid 'only-cycles-of-10' system.
So, if Magic 2015 only has five lands, how will Standard cope? Have we changed our thinking on dual lands?
The answer is no—the statement I made last year is still true—our hope moving forward with Standard is to make sure that players have the mana base to make their decks work, and part of that means that players in Block will also have adequate mana. It probably won't come as a surprise for you to find out that Khans of Tarkir has a cycle of dual lands—the last Magic fall expansion to not have a set of dual lands was Mirrodin (although, I will admit that Time Spiral's charge lands left quite a bit to be desired in terms of actual mana fixing). We still plan on letting players cast their spells. We are just breaking things up a bit again.
So it's perfectly possible they see "enemy painlands + allied fetch" as a 'cycle of 10' for standard.
I agree. But what is interesting is that this doesn't rule out the chances of the Zendikar fetchlands returning in the spring. Because Dewey and M16 will be rotating out later it is possible that each of them will contain the other half of these two cycles. Given that Karplusan Forest and Adarkar Waste are plane specific locations, reprinting them in the last possible Core Set for a final kick at the can (they are, after all, the second cycle of Dual lands- and no, no one cares about Lava Tubes and company) seems almost likely.
I am so, so excited. As someone who owns near a set of all the Onslaught fetches, I do not care. I am happy that people get to play the game they love to play, and that I get to actually enjoy that game with them
It is sickening to see people complain on here about the loss of SOME of the value of their collection, not all. The way I look at it a.) You are spending money that you did not have, therefore you have a problem with financing, or b.) You have enough money to spend on your hobby, therefore it is not detrimental to your life that you are losing out on money. You made an investment, it happens. It is not only greedy, but a little bit ridiculous to get mad about fetchlands getting reprinted, because like I said, you can't really play them without other players owning them.
Anyway, this is awesome! Khans looks awesome, WoTC has really surprised us with this set so far, and we aren't' even close to half way through. Hopefully we can see enemy fetchlands reprinted, since it would make fixing for the wedges a little better than allied colors.
As someone who owns a playset of onslaught block fetchlands - damnit. My collection just got a whole lot less valuable/impressive.
I don't feel your pain. I was stopped from getting the deck of my dreams in Modern because of the fetchlands price spike. I can now make that deck. You should be ashamed of yourself for caring more about your own profits than about the good of Magic as a whole.
I guess I'm supposed to be ashamed of myself for being unhappy that the resale value of my collection just dropped by hundreds of dollars overnight?
No, you should feel silly for assuming that a bunch of cardboard rectangles would hold value indefinitely.
Oh, look at you making assumptions about what I thought! All I said was I'm sad that my collection is now less valuable. Why is this hard for people to understand?
Then in that case I would like to apologize for misunderstanding you and admit that I was wrong.
I guess something I find slightly frustrating is that the set can now be mediocre but will still sell extremely well. I mean I'm sure wizards worked hard on the set but its sad nonbasic land matters that much...
I just lost hundreds of dollars overnight. So people could have fetchlands that WON'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE LANDFALL ISN'T AROUND AND THEY ARE NOT GOOD MANA FIXING WITHOUT REAL DUAL LANDS. But hey, gotta give the people what they want, even when they're wrong, and even when it causes Legacy players to lose hundreds of dollars in a snap of the fingers.
This is the absolute worst.
Not to mention, this makes Modern much worse, as manabases will be even greedier now.
Perhaps next time you won't treat non-reserve list cards as that ephemeral investment that always goes up and never goes down. I lost some value too, but I don't treat M:tG as a pseudo stock-market, I treat it as a form of entertainment, and this will hopefully get more standard players into modern which means more players to play with which means a better entertainment experience. That's well worth the drop in value!
Man, it is getting difficult to keep up with this thread. Everytime I post, another conversation happens. I am just going to simply read and like all the posts I like...
I just lost hundreds of dollars overnight. So people could have fetchlands that WON'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE LANDFALL ISN'T AROUND AND THEY ARE NOT GOOD MANA FIXING WITHOUT REAL DUAL LANDS. But hey, gotta give the people what they want, even when they're wrong, and even when it causes Legacy players to lose hundreds of dollars in a snap of the fingers.
First, Fetchlands are not bad mana fixing. They will be the pillars of Standard fixing while they exist in the format, and for good reason. They have always been the most played dual land whenever they existed in a Standard environment, even with other options available and without meaningful interactions. They don't need Landfall to matter at all, and anybody who thinks that is completely off their rocker. The argument that Landfall and Fetches could only appear together was spurious at best, and rather meaningless to be frank. They didn't need anything to do what they are designed to do, and have more interactivity than with Landfall. Given that Delve is appearing now, it will also have added functionality on top of it. Fetches didn't even need to interact with anything to work exactly how their supposed to.
I warned people over in Market Street several months ago the danger of holding onto fetches with these false premises on the circumstances of their reprints, and was derided quite heavily for it. People threw no end of crap towards me, some of which, here and elsewhere, that was quite insulting.
I'm going to assume, for your sake, that you bought them before their recent spikes. If you did, I was quite explicit that the time to sell was shortening and it made very little sense to hold onto something just to eek out every last penny. The game of musical chairs was obviously coming to an end, and you really didn't want to be the one left standing with all that drop in value.
Take this as a lesson learned: Nothing on the Reserved list is sacred, and if something is both desired and possible for reprint(Or even strongly possible, as Fetchlands *were* given what Rosewater stated about them), and you stand to make or lose a lot of value because you blind yourself into a corner of what must be or might be. There is a reason many of us were not caught completely off-kilter, and that's because we didn't fall into a trap mindset.
This is the absolute worst.
Not to mention, this makes Modern much worse, as manabases will be even greedier now.
Or it makes it better, as more players will start playing and certainly two color combinations become far more viable with a far more consistent mana base. Not to mention making many three color combinations more consistent.
Has it occurred to anyone that the rumor that got put on here about a month ago, saying that the ultra pro playmats for KTK was going to be lands which confirmed fetches, has apparently turned out to be legit?
Not sure of the specifics but that doesn't sound like "legit" to me. It's not good enough to reach a true conclusion if you reach it through illogical means. If the reasoning was "The playmats are lands, and as we know there are no other lands in this game" then it's not legit, it's just wishful thinking that got lucky.
I just lost hundreds of dollars overnight. So people could have fetchlands that WON'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE LANDFALL ISN'T AROUND AND THEY ARE NOT GOOD MANA FIXING WITHOUT REAL DUAL LANDS. But hey, gotta give the people what they want, even when they're wrong, and even when it causes Legacy players to lose hundreds of dollars in a snap of the fingers.
This is the absolute worst.
Not to mention, this makes Modern much worse, as manabases will be even greedier now.
First, it helps many players who couldn't afford Modern or your precious Legacy to get into those formats. That is completely worth it. Second, it won't make Modern worse. The decks that want to be stupid goodstuff decks generally can already. What it will do is allow Esper Control players to have the same kind of manabase as WUR Control players. And that is better for the format.
Also, if it wasn't for fetchland reprints, I wouldn't be able to get into Modern completely until after I graduated from college and got a full-time job. There are many other people like me in this. So I am sorry that you lost a few hundred bucks, but many more people saved money that the people who lost money.
My Modern deck is Bant Conscription, and thus I will happily toss those full sets of Windswept Heath and Flooded Strand I already own into that deck, so yeah I completely get the frustration with wedge decks having better fixing than shard decks.
But I never had any sympathy for people who claimed they couldn't afford Modern because of fetchland prices. They were at most $10 when they rotated in fall of 2011, and everybody who had any brains kept theirs. People who started playing after that could have still gotten them easily for under $20 each until this year, and Modern had been around since August 2011 so it isn't as if this need for fetchlands came out of left field and took people by surprise. When shocks got reprinted and tanked their price, it was OBVIOUS fetches were going to spike, anybody who missed that boat had nobody else to blame.
This is just a giant bailout for people who made bad decisions over the past few years. And it comes after Aaron Forsythe basically told us there wouldn't be fetchlands this year, on which many of us made our decisions.
I just lost hundreds of dollars overnight. So people could have fetchlands that WON'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE LANDFALL ISN'T AROUND AND THEY ARE NOT GOOD MANA FIXING WITHOUT REAL DUAL LANDS. But hey, gotta give the people what they want, even when they're wrong, and even when it causes Legacy players to lose hundreds of dollars in a snap of the fingers.
This is the absolute worst.
Not to mention, this makes Modern much worse, as manabases will be even greedier now.
First, it helps many players who couldn't afford Modern or your precious Legacy to get into those formats. That is completely worth it. Second, it won't make Modern worse. The decks that want to be stupid goodstuff decks generally can already. What it will do is allow Esper Control players to have the same kind of manabase as WUR Control players. And that is better for the format.
Also, if it wasn't for fetchland reprints, I wouldn't be able to get into Modern completely until after I graduated from college and got a full-time job. There are many other people like me in this. So I am sorry that you lost a few hundred bucks, but many more people saved money that the people who lost money.
It also allows G/R, U/W, B/R, G/W, and U/B as two-colored decks to have more consistent mana bases than current. A small buff due to 3-color being far more enticing, but it's something you can actually have now that didn't exist before.
He didn't basically say anything. He said they like the idea of releasing dual lands in blocks of ten. That does not eliminate the possibility of that block of 2 dual lands being comprised of 2 different dual land cycles. What people thought was implied isn't the fault of WotC.
The whole of my city's Legacy community is happy that we get more fetchlands.
These are people who have playsets of judge foil fetchlands and gather 30-40 people weeklies and want to have it easier to introduce more poeple into high-level magic.
Sorry your stocks market approach to an industrial paper product sold worldwide didn't play out the way you thought it would, but don't speak for "legacy players" as if you were the voice of a monolithic entity.
Has it occurred to anyone that the rumor that got put on here about a month ago, saying that the ultra pro playmats for KTK was going to be lands which confirmed fetches, has apparently turned out to be legit?
Not sure of the specifics but that doesn't sound like "legit" to me. It's not good enough to reach a true conclusion if you reach it through illogical means. If the reasoning was "The playmats are lands, and as we know there are no other lands in this game" then it's not legit, it's just wishful thinking that got lucky.
The part about it being fetchlands was lucky wishful thinking, but I don't see Ultra Pro printing mats of just basic land art. So the wishful thinking wasn't too hard considering lands that get playmats have to be pretty special like the shock lands.
The main thing I want to point out was the story would seem to be solid and not just made up bs the OP made just to make hype.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern U Merfolk U UBR Death's Shadow UBR
EDH UR Jhoira of the Ghitu UR G Omnath, Locus of Mana G
About time these guys were confirmed! I'm excited to step up my Commander game as well as branch out a bit in Modern and try some fresh stuff. I'm crazy excited to see what kind of impact these bad boys will have in Modern. I think the next year is going to be pretty interesting.
I can't tell the impact of this on my Zendikar fetches (on the assumption they aren't reprinted this block), since while its true that supply does go up a bit since decks are refining their fetches, but the point is, there will be a new influx of Modern players, they would still want some Zen fetches and I have the feeling the demand will actually go up rather than drop, since the supply is capped at the moment. (Basically more new players that need 4 instead of 8 fetches, since they can fix half using KTK ones, then there are ZEN fetches freed up due to changing manabases.)
We are a greedy bunch, so its likely that people will opt for optimal 4 KTK 4 ZEN fetches then sticking with the budget 8 KTK fetches (Something like current players are with 8 ZEN ones, but that's more of no choice since there's no allied ones at the moment.) I'm talking the whole Modern playerbase as a whole, so I think it's likely to push it up.
And I actually don't think they will print ZEN fetches in KTK block, despite the "Full Cycle" statement. Here are the reasons:
1) They might not have been aware of the two block paradigm (Standard changes announced last week) when they made that statement. Remember, blocks are smaller now.
2) On top of 1), they dropped Block Constructed from higher-level play, and very few stores hold them in the first place - so it's basically dead.
3) KTK is the wonky transition block between 3 sets 2 blocks to 2 set 3 blocks, so if there's anytime something "unbalanced" happens, its now.
4) Standard isn't in good shape. People are already saying (and making) the transition to Modern with the reveal of the 5 Allied fetches. If the Zendikar ones are reprinted in the block, the floodgates would be completely open. Lots of people will turn to Modern without ever turning back, and every block after this would be rated like Theros for Modern (Lousy except for one or two reprints e.g. Thoughtseize.)... basically not good for sales in the long run without resorting to power creep.
I am so, so excited. As someone who owns near a set of all the Onslaught fetches, I do not care. I am happy that people get to play the game they love to play, and that I get to actually enjoy that game with them
You know, every time something like this happens, there's always somebody like you who pops on, claiming to own all the reprinted cards and be happy they were reprinted. I'm not buying it, are you a WotC plant? I didn't know anybody happy their Legends cards were turned into dollar rares in 1995, and I don't believe anybody who owned ONS fetches would actually be happy to lose hundreds of dollars unless they were just so rich it didn't matter.
I was trying to buy paper Moxen to play a hatebears deck in GenCon next fall, I could have sold the Strands I wasn't using, or my MTGO Deltas, and gotten a huge part of the way towards another Mox. Now that's trashed.
God bless the reserved list. I should have done this last year, but I'm damn sure doing it now, I'm getting rid of anything with any value I possibly can to move into reserved list rares from older sets.
He didn't basically say anything. He said they like the idea of releasing dual lands in blocks of ten. That does not eliminate the possibility of that block of 2 dual lands being comprised of 2 different dual land cycles. What people thought was implied isn't the fault of WotC.
Someone should just ask on blogatog. Any tumblr takers?
First, it helps many players who couldn't afford Modern or your precious Legacy to get into those formats. That is completely worth it. Second, it won't make Modern worse. The decks that want to be stupid goodstuff decks generally can already. What it will do is allow Esper Control players to have the same kind of manabase as WUR Control players. And that is better for the format.
Also, if it wasn't for fetchland reprints, I wouldn't be able to get into Modern completely until after I graduated from college and got a full-time job. There are many other people like me in this. So I am sorry that you lost a few hundred bucks, but many more people saved money that the people who lost money.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
For what its worth, I really do hope you win this bet. I'm sure you'd enjoy the fetches, and I'm sure Id enjoy trading for as many as I can for 10 dollars of value. I mean, trading a nissa for 5 fetches? Count me in.
Too many. Don't do it. Just buy singles of them when they drop to $6-8 I a few months.
Oh, look at you making assumptions about what I thought! All I said was I'm sad that my collection is now less valuable. Why is this hard for people to understand?
I agree. But what is interesting is that this doesn't rule out the chances of the Zendikar fetchlands returning in the spring. Because Dewey and M16 will be rotating out later it is possible that each of them will contain the other half of these two cycles. Given that Karplusan Forest and Adarkar Waste are plane specific locations, reprinting them in the last possible Core Set for a final kick at the can (they are, after all, the second cycle of Dual lands- and no, no one cares about Lava Tubes and company) seems almost likely.
It is sickening to see people complain on here about the loss of SOME of the value of their collection, not all. The way I look at it a.) You are spending money that you did not have, therefore you have a problem with financing, or b.) You have enough money to spend on your hobby, therefore it is not detrimental to your life that you are losing out on money. You made an investment, it happens. It is not only greedy, but a little bit ridiculous to get mad about fetchlands getting reprinted, because like I said, you can't really play them without other players owning them.
Anyway, this is awesome! Khans looks awesome, WoTC has really surprised us with this set so far, and we aren't' even close to half way through. Hopefully we can see enemy fetchlands reprinted, since it would make fixing for the wedges a little better than allied colors.
Then in that case I would like to apologize for misunderstanding you and admit that I was wrong.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'll even make a video of me mailing it if I lose. haha.
Perhaps next time you won't treat non-reserve list cards as that ephemeral investment that always goes up and never goes down. I lost some value too, but I don't treat M:tG as a pseudo stock-market, I treat it as a form of entertainment, and this will hopefully get more standard players into modern which means more players to play with which means a better entertainment experience. That's well worth the drop in value!
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
First, Fetchlands are not bad mana fixing. They will be the pillars of Standard fixing while they exist in the format, and for good reason. They have always been the most played dual land whenever they existed in a Standard environment, even with other options available and without meaningful interactions. They don't need Landfall to matter at all, and anybody who thinks that is completely off their rocker. The argument that Landfall and Fetches could only appear together was spurious at best, and rather meaningless to be frank. They didn't need anything to do what they are designed to do, and have more interactivity than with Landfall. Given that Delve is appearing now, it will also have added functionality on top of it. Fetches didn't even need to interact with anything to work exactly how their supposed to.
I warned people over in Market Street several months ago the danger of holding onto fetches with these false premises on the circumstances of their reprints, and was derided quite heavily for it. People threw no end of crap towards me, some of which, here and elsewhere, that was quite insulting.
I'm going to assume, for your sake, that you bought them before their recent spikes. If you did, I was quite explicit that the time to sell was shortening and it made very little sense to hold onto something just to eek out every last penny. The game of musical chairs was obviously coming to an end, and you really didn't want to be the one left standing with all that drop in value.
Take this as a lesson learned: Nothing on the Reserved list is sacred, and if something is both desired and possible for reprint(Or even strongly possible, as Fetchlands *were* given what Rosewater stated about them), and you stand to make or lose a lot of value because you blind yourself into a corner of what must be or might be. There is a reason many of us were not caught completely off-kilter, and that's because we didn't fall into a trap mindset.
Or it makes it better, as more players will start playing and certainly two color combinations become far more viable with a far more consistent mana base. Not to mention making many three color combinations more consistent.
Not sure of the specifics but that doesn't sound like "legit" to me. It's not good enough to reach a true conclusion if you reach it through illogical means. If the reasoning was "The playmats are lands, and as we know there are no other lands in this game" then it's not legit, it's just wishful thinking that got lucky.
My Modern deck is Bant Conscription, and thus I will happily toss those full sets of Windswept Heath and Flooded Strand I already own into that deck, so yeah I completely get the frustration with wedge decks having better fixing than shard decks.
But I never had any sympathy for people who claimed they couldn't afford Modern because of fetchland prices. They were at most $10 when they rotated in fall of 2011, and everybody who had any brains kept theirs. People who started playing after that could have still gotten them easily for under $20 each until this year, and Modern had been around since August 2011 so it isn't as if this need for fetchlands came out of left field and took people by surprise. When shocks got reprinted and tanked their price, it was OBVIOUS fetches were going to spike, anybody who missed that boat had nobody else to blame.
This is just a giant bailout for people who made bad decisions over the past few years. And it comes after Aaron Forsythe basically told us there wouldn't be fetchlands this year, on which many of us made our decisions.
they will never be $6 to $8 I will always pay at least $15 for any fetch and thousands of others will snap them up at $15
It also allows G/R, U/W, B/R, G/W, and U/B as two-colored decks to have more consistent mana bases than current. A small buff due to 3-color being far more enticing, but it's something you can actually have now that didn't exist before.
These are people who have playsets of judge foil fetchlands and gather 30-40 people weeklies and want to have it easier to introduce more poeple into high-level magic.
Sorry your stocks market approach to an industrial paper product sold worldwide didn't play out the way you thought it would, but don't speak for "legacy players" as if you were the voice of a monolithic entity.
The part about it being fetchlands was lucky wishful thinking, but I don't see Ultra Pro printing mats of just basic land art. So the wishful thinking wasn't too hard considering lands that get playmats have to be pretty special like the shock lands.
The main thing I want to point out was the story would seem to be solid and not just made up bs the OP made just to make hype.
U Merfolk U
UBR Death's Shadow UBR
EDH
UR Jhoira of the Ghitu UR
G Omnath, Locus of Mana G
Modern
RGTron
Legacy
UBRDelver
Also Playing:
Dragon Ball Z TCG
We are a greedy bunch, so its likely that people will opt for optimal 4 KTK 4 ZEN fetches then sticking with the budget 8 KTK fetches (Something like current players are with 8 ZEN ones, but that's more of no choice since there's no allied ones at the moment.) I'm talking the whole Modern playerbase as a whole, so I think it's likely to push it up.
And I actually don't think they will print ZEN fetches in KTK block, despite the "Full Cycle" statement. Here are the reasons:
1) They might not have been aware of the two block paradigm (Standard changes announced last week) when they made that statement. Remember, blocks are smaller now.
2) On top of 1), they dropped Block Constructed from higher-level play, and very few stores hold them in the first place - so it's basically dead.
3) KTK is the wonky transition block between 3 sets 2 blocks to 2 set 3 blocks, so if there's anytime something "unbalanced" happens, its now.
4) Standard isn't in good shape. People are already saying (and making) the transition to Modern with the reveal of the 5 Allied fetches. If the Zendikar ones are reprinted in the block, the floodgates would be completely open. Lots of people will turn to Modern without ever turning back, and every block after this would be rated like Theros for Modern (Lousy except for one or two reprints e.g. Thoughtseize.)... basically not good for sales in the long run without resorting to power creep.
You know, every time something like this happens, there's always somebody like you who pops on, claiming to own all the reprinted cards and be happy they were reprinted. I'm not buying it, are you a WotC plant? I didn't know anybody happy their Legends cards were turned into dollar rares in 1995, and I don't believe anybody who owned ONS fetches would actually be happy to lose hundreds of dollars unless they were just so rich it didn't matter.
I was trying to buy paper Moxen to play a hatebears deck in GenCon next fall, I could have sold the Strands I wasn't using, or my MTGO Deltas, and gotten a huge part of the way towards another Mox. Now that's trashed.
God bless the reserved list. I should have done this last year, but I'm damn sure doing it now, I'm getting rid of anything with any value I possibly can to move into reserved list rares from older sets.