So the mechanics from Khans are only going to be in the first and possibly the second set? What's going on with the rest of the block? Are we going back to Alara or something? That was my first thought when I heard that there are different mechanics down the line, and after reading MaRo's article about how they worked so hard to be sure the sets draft well with each other. Not to mention Sarkhan Vol and three-color shards/wedges and their respective lands. Has anything been announced about what the rest of the block is doing?
No information has been announced yet. And I personally think it'll be based around something extremely unrelated to the first set, but not necessarily at odds with it as much as Shards would be.
So the mechanics from Khans are only going to be in the first and possibly the second set? What's going on with the rest of the block? Are we going back to Alara or something? That was my first thought when I heard that there are different mechanics down the line, and after reading MaRo's article about how they worked so hard to be sure the sets draft well with each other. Not to mention Sarkhan Vol and three-color shards/wedges and their respective lands. Has anything been announced about what the rest of the block is doing?
They've announced that there will be time travel and popular opinion is that the 2nd set will either somehow involve traveling into the past or will be set in the past, and then the third set will either be set in the newly changed future or in the past. Why? Because that will allow dragons to return from extinction! However that is mostly speculation given our knowledge that time travel is involved in the block, dragons are extinct and still important to the clans, and Sarkhan Vol would be the perfect person to go back in time trying to save some dragons.
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Casual Decks WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery) RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***) URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you) GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR) GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though) BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz) WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?) WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you) GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie) BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you) URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA) RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb) GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun) WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL) GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz) GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE) GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...) UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos) RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!) WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I understand that having most new mechanics be "when X happens Y gets +1/+1 UEoT" isn't quite what we dream of but I'm thinking Prowess could be sweet: making instants matter is generally a great, simple way to add depth to combat
@Xeruh: Yes it would be at odds with Khans of Tarkir, but Khans is not going to be drafted with "Louie". It seems possible to me that they could do Wedge-Set/Buffer-Set/Shard-Set, especially with how the drafts are set up. Return to Alara anyone?
Edit: Also, MaRo said in his Blog that the Large-Small-Large block structure was literally what they started design with. The link is in the wiki on the "Khans of Tarkir Block" page.
Calling it now, the america legend is going to give all your dudes prowess. Seems pretty scary.
If Zurgo is any indication, the clan leaders won't just be powerful examples of their clan mechanic, which makes sense as mythic cards, especially those designed with Commander in mind, tend to be more "complex" or "outside the box" in design. Of course, Zurgo alone isn't a big sample size, so who knows. I'm certainly hoping Narset will be more nuanced than just a sort of pseudo-anthem.
So I actually don't mind this mechanic. It makes combat much more interesting and dynamic, and leads to a lot of fun play lines. It's solid, but it's also safe and uninteresting.
There are two things I don't like about this mechanic and the discussion surrounding it. First, my original criticism holds; Prowess N would have been just as flavorful and just as balanced as Prowess, but it would have opened up a few more design options. You could have most of the Prowess cards be Prowess 1. Then you get a few guys with Prowess 2+ and do cool stuff with the card design there. There really isn't much to lose in doing this. This card in the OP still keeps Prowess 1. Most cards in the set keep it too. But then you can have a few guys with bigger Prowess values, which are cooler in limited, casual, and constructed circles alike.
My second issue with this card is the belief that Wizards thoroughly tested it and we should take that at face value. Wizards makes design mistakes. Wizards makes testing mistakes. They also have successful designs and successful testing runs. All I will say on this is that I am curious to read the KTK articles that discuss the mechanics; I am sure they will have a note about Prowess N vs. straight up Prowess, and I am curious to see their rationale for picking the latter over the former.
@Xeruh: Yes it would be at odds with Khans of Tarkir, but Khans is not going to be drafted with "Louie". It seems possible to me that they could do Wedge-Set/Buffer-Set/Shard-Set, especially with how the drafts are set up. Return to Alara anyone?
Edit: Also, MaRo said in his Blog that the Large-Small-Large block structure was literally what they started design with. The link is in the wiki on the "Khans of Tarkir Block" page.
I know what they did. What I'm saying is I don't expect that the third set will be as directly at odds as an Arc set. Whatever the third set is focused on will probably be shown in the second set though.
So I actually don't mind this mechanic. It makes combat much more interesting and dynamic, and leads to a lot of fun play lines. It's solid, but it's also safe and uninteresting.
There are two things I don't like about this mechanic and the discussion surrounding it. First, my original criticism holds; Prowess N would have been just as flavorful and just as balanced as Prowess, but it would have opened up a few more design options. You could have most of the Prowess cards be Prowess 1. Then you get a few guys with Prowess 2+ and do cool stuff with the card design there. There really isn't much to lose in doing this. This card in the OP still keeps Prowess 1. Most cards in the set keep it too. But then you can have a few guys with bigger Prowess values, which are cooler in limited, casual, and constructed circles alike.
My second issue with this card is the belief that Wizards thoroughly tested it and we should take that at face value. Wizards makes design mistakes. Wizards makes testing mistakes. They also have successful designs and successful testing runs. All I will say on this is that I am curious to read the KTK articles that discuss the mechanics; I am sure they will have a note about Prowess N vs. straight up Prowess, and I am curious to see their rationale for picking the latter over the former.
The short version will likely be "it reduces complexity in a set that was already complex enough." One of the challenges of design is not just squeezing every last bit of territory out of design-space, but also ensuring that your players have an enjoyable time with the cards. Getting blown out in combat because you didn't realize that the card had Prowess 2, rather than Prowess 1 like the other 80% of cards is a horrible experience. Since they already have Morph in the set to ensure there's plenty of weird things to keep track of as it is, limiting it to a single value makes room in players heads for them to be players, rather than spending too much brainpower just evaluating the board state.
It should be noted for those in favor of Prowess N that there has been no report that multiple instances of Prowess do not appear on cards. I think it's just too early to judge the mechanic at all.
It should be noted for those in favor of Prowess N that there has been no report that multiple instances of Prowess do not appear on cards. I think it's just too early to judge the mechanic at all.
I would actually bet that there is one card with multiple instances of Prowess. Or at least ways to grant something Prowess, and a ruling that multiple instances are not redundant. That's decent design space, much like multiple instances of Exalted.
I can't imagine a card that simply has "Prowess, prowess", that just looks and sounds dumb. But a monk staff equipment that grants prowess sounds very plausible to me, as well as any number of other ways to grant it via auras, global enchantments, a training dojo land or maybe even the Khan. And of course there might well be a prowess equivalent of Rafiq with double strike whenever you cast a noncreature spell.
So I actually don't mind this mechanic. It makes combat much more interesting and dynamic, and leads to a lot of fun play lines. It's solid, but it's also safe and uninteresting.
There are two things I don't like about this mechanic and the discussion surrounding it. First, my original criticism holds; Prowess N would have been just as flavorful and just as balanced as Prowess, but it would have opened up a few more design options. You could have most of the Prowess cards be Prowess 1. Then you get a few guys with Prowess 2+ and do cool stuff with the card design there. There really isn't much to lose in doing this. This card in the OP still keeps Prowess 1. Most cards in the set keep it too. But then you can have a few guys with bigger Prowess values, which are cooler in limited, casual, and constructed circles alike.
My second issue with this card is the belief that Wizards thoroughly tested it and we should take that at face value. Wizards makes design mistakes. Wizards makes testing mistakes. They also have successful designs and successful testing runs. All I will say on this is that I am curious to read the KTK articles that discuss the mechanics; I am sure they will have a note about Prowess N vs. straight up Prowess, and I am curious to see their rationale for picking the latter over the former.
To me, it reads like Delver-lite; it rewards an aggro-control builder for doing what she will be doing anyway, which is playing a small early threat and riding it to victory through a combination of counters, bounce and CA/draw spells. It just changes when the spells are best timed, basically. Given that counters like Mana Leak aren't going to be a part of Standard for the foreseeable future, this isn't asking a lot of the Jeskai player; they wouldn't be keeping counter mana open anyway in the upcoming Standard.
Now, I'm not saying that this dude's going to be the next Delver; but I think the mechanic might be stronger than it first appears, and I'm not sure it's entirely "safe". It depends on how many aggro-control components exist in the Standard it's in. Given that we're beyond the point of Ponder/Preordain making it into a set, and Void Snare is replacing Unsummon, it will probably be all right. It's definitely safe in the context of the non-rotating formats, but it's interesting in that it gives Storm players another way to win; not that it triggers off of Storm itself, but the cards that build up the Storm count will also be creating an enormous Elder to swing with.
I can't imagine a card that simply has "Prowess, prowess", that just looks and sounds dumb. But a monk staff equipment that grants prowess sounds very plausible to me, as well as any number of other ways to grant it via auras, global enchantments, a training dojo land or maybe even the Khan.
I agree 100% with this. While Prowess 2 may have over complicated things during combat for new players, Prowess, prowess would do the same while looking terrible on the actual card in my opinion. Jeskai Elder and Aqueous Form would be fantastic together. Throw in Flamespeaker Adept, a couple scry lands and you have the start to what could be a decent UR deck.
With pain lands, scry lands, and now wedge lands, I don't think fetches will be in this block. Way too much good mana fixing. I don't see enemy fetches until M16 at the earliest, and even that seems like a stretch. This set will most likely finish off the pain land cycle is I were to guess.
@Xeruh: I understand your point that it would clash with Khans. But the draft layout would support it. And all 2-color gold cards from Khans would still be in one or two shards, making it plausible for constructed. In fact, each two-color combination would be equally represented in three wedges/shards each. I guess we'll find out soon.
With pain lands, scry lands, and now wedge lands, I don't think fetches will be in this block. Way too much good mana fixing. I don't see enemy fetches until M16 at the earliest, and even that seems like a stretch. This set will most likely finish off the pain land cycle is I were to guess.
You're probably right.
I only play Modern, so it's disappointing that my metagame and economy is sacrificed on the altar of Standard Limited*, the all-powerful god of the MTG world, but that's what makes WOTC $$$, so that's what they have to focus on, I guess.
(*The format where you try to make a deck slightly less ugly and sucky than everybody else's!)
While I too mainly play Modern, according to Wizards they didn't see the fetch lands spiking as hard as they did. The design all their sets in advance, so it's a bit difficult to shoehorn in extra cards just to make a play group happy. With all the Zendikar stuff coming up recently, I don't think we are that far off from returning. We mostly likely won't see the fetches until then, or in MM2.
@Xeruh: I understand your point that it would clash with Khans. But the draft layout would support it. And all 2-color gold cards from Khans would still be in one or two shards, making it plausible for constructed. In fact, each two-color combination would be equally represented in three wedges/shards each. I guess we'll find out soon.
That doesn't support anything specifically with shards as the third block, all it says is they took a good shot at it and that they started design with the idea. Starting with the idea of "two large, one small in the middle, draft the larges separately" still works as a starting point.
I'm not saying it can't happen by any stretch. I just don't think it will.
I see what you're saying but an 'ability word' as you have defined it (they're basically just tags to group similar abilities from a flavor perspective) is still just using a single word(Or I guess set of words like "Will of the Council") to refer to a set group of information (in the case of heroic, creatures with the ability to make something happen when you target them with something) which is essentially the definition of a keyword. So I guess that would make an ability word a type of keyword? Meh. Tomato, tomato.
I get the distinction as it applies to Magic, but I'm still wondering if Prowess is infact a keyword or if it's an ability word. Since we've only seen one card with it and it's certainly not the first instance of a "Cast x type of spell, get Y buff" effect, it could be either.
No. Prowess is a keyword.
An ability word, by its definition, appears in italics at the beginning of abilities that have rules meaning. The ability word itself has no rules meaning.
Prowess has rules meaning. "Prowess" means what its reminder text indicates. Because prowess has rules meaning, it cannot be an ability word by definition.
When I was talking about definitions, I was talking about real world definitions. I say that because everyone seems to think I meant what the word 'keyword' means in Magic. While I am pretty knowledgeable about the rules, I've never sat down and read the comprehensive rule book and so was unfamiliar with the fact that 'keyword' and 'ability word' are actual terms in the game of magic with rules definitions. I am aware of that now and understand the difference.
Also, thank you for being the first person to actually answer my question, which was how people knew it was a keyword. The fact that ability words are in italics and keywords are not was also something I was unaware of. So now I know why this is a keyword.
I think it would have better served as an ability word, much more room to work. I think as it stands as a static ability, barring something that makes it moderately easy to stack multiple instances of Prowess, it will probably turn out to be a weak keyword. By itself it's nothing too amazing. Along side some kind of mechanic that allows for easy recasting of spells, such as flashback or buyback, it has some nice deck building applications. I'll reserve full judgment until more of the set has been spoiled. But preliminary thoughts, it does seem weak without some good amount of support.
I was a bit underwhelmed when I first saw the Jeskai mechanic. My first thought was "Jeez, what is this? Heroic 2.0?" But the more I think about it, I'm actually starting to think that it could be pretty nice. After all, Prowess doesn't require you to target your own creatures. You can just go on and attack and then cast a burn spell during combat, or some white instant removal or blue bounce. In comparison to heroic, you are trading power for flexibility. Because any instant you cast this way becomes an (albeit small) combat trick, it makes blocking decisions for your opponent a little bit trickier. Also, once you have two or three (evasive) Prowess dudes out, I imagine that even with just a small boost each turn, you will be able to finish the game quite quickly, especially when you're playing tempo cards.
Prowess is really bland at first glance, but depending on the context the mechanic is going to be played in, could be pretty interesting.
I remember people crapping on Bestow when it was previewed. "Costs too much," they cried. Turned out pretty well. As do most mechanics. Don't judge a mechanic by a single card.
As for the tri-lands, well, Modern will like them!
I remember people crapping on Bestow when it was previewed. "Costs too much," they cried. Turned out pretty well. As do most mechanics. Don't judge a mechanic by a single card.
As for the tri-lands, well, Modern will like them!
The existing ally tri-lands see almost no use in Modern.
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They've announced that there will be time travel and popular opinion is that the 2nd set will either somehow involve traveling into the past or will be set in the past, and then the third set will either be set in the newly changed future or in the past. Why? Because that will allow dragons to return from extinction! However that is mostly speculation given our knowledge that time travel is involved in the block, dragons are extinct and still important to the clans, and Sarkhan Vol would be the perfect person to go back in time trying to save some dragons.
WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery)
RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***)
URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you)
GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR)
GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though)
BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz)
WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?)
WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you)
GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie)
BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you)
URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb)
GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun)
WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL)
GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks
UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz)
GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE)
GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...)
UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders
WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos)
RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard
RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!)
WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
As far as the mechanic is concerned, theres nothing wrong with it, it's flavorful and makes combat tricks really hard to plan for.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Edit: Also, MaRo said in his Blog that the Large-Small-Large block structure was literally what they started design with. The link is in the wiki on the "Khans of Tarkir Block" page.
If Zurgo is any indication, the clan leaders won't just be powerful examples of their clan mechanic, which makes sense as mythic cards, especially those designed with Commander in mind, tend to be more "complex" or "outside the box" in design. Of course, Zurgo alone isn't a big sample size, so who knows. I'm certainly hoping Narset will be more nuanced than just a sort of pseudo-anthem.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
There are two things I don't like about this mechanic and the discussion surrounding it. First, my original criticism holds; Prowess N would have been just as flavorful and just as balanced as Prowess, but it would have opened up a few more design options. You could have most of the Prowess cards be Prowess 1. Then you get a few guys with Prowess 2+ and do cool stuff with the card design there. There really isn't much to lose in doing this. This card in the OP still keeps Prowess 1. Most cards in the set keep it too. But then you can have a few guys with bigger Prowess values, which are cooler in limited, casual, and constructed circles alike.
My second issue with this card is the belief that Wizards thoroughly tested it and we should take that at face value. Wizards makes design mistakes. Wizards makes testing mistakes. They also have successful designs and successful testing runs. All I will say on this is that I am curious to read the KTK articles that discuss the mechanics; I am sure they will have a note about Prowess N vs. straight up Prowess, and I am curious to see their rationale for picking the latter over the former.
I know what they did. What I'm saying is I don't expect that the third set will be as directly at odds as an Arc set. Whatever the third set is focused on will probably be shown in the second set though.
I would actually bet that there is one card with multiple instances of Prowess. Or at least ways to grant something Prowess, and a ruling that multiple instances are not redundant. That's decent design space, much like multiple instances of Exalted.
To me, it reads like Delver-lite; it rewards an aggro-control builder for doing what she will be doing anyway, which is playing a small early threat and riding it to victory through a combination of counters, bounce and CA/draw spells. It just changes when the spells are best timed, basically. Given that counters like Mana Leak aren't going to be a part of Standard for the foreseeable future, this isn't asking a lot of the Jeskai player; they wouldn't be keeping counter mana open anyway in the upcoming Standard.
Now, I'm not saying that this dude's going to be the next Delver; but I think the mechanic might be stronger than it first appears, and I'm not sure it's entirely "safe". It depends on how many aggro-control components exist in the Standard it's in. Given that we're beyond the point of Ponder/Preordain making it into a set, and Void Snare is replacing Unsummon, it will probably be all right. It's definitely safe in the context of the non-rotating formats, but it's interesting in that it gives Storm players another way to win; not that it triggers off of Storm itself, but the cards that build up the Storm count will also be creating an enormous Elder to swing with.
I agree 100% with this. While Prowess 2 may have over complicated things during combat for new players, Prowess, prowess would do the same while looking terrible on the actual card in my opinion. Jeskai Elder and Aqueous Form would be fantastic together. Throw in Flamespeaker Adept, a couple scry lands and you have the start to what could be a decent UR deck.
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After all, since this is the "wedge set," if enemy-color-fixing lands were to appear anywhere, it would be here, right?
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Here's a couple links that support my theory:
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/92958601513/how-early-in-tarkir-block-design-was-the-unique
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/95120722523/after-back-to-back-years-of-good-but-not-great
You're probably right.
I only play Modern, so it's disappointing that my metagame and economy is sacrificed on the altar of Standard Limited*, the all-powerful god of the MTG world, but that's what makes WOTC $$$, so that's what they have to focus on, I guess.
(*The format where you try to make a deck slightly less ugly and sucky than everybody else's!)
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
That doesn't support anything specifically with shards as the third block, all it says is they took a good shot at it and that they started design with the idea. Starting with the idea of "two large, one small in the middle, draft the larges separately" still works as a starting point.
I'm not saying it can't happen by any stretch. I just don't think it will.
When I was talking about definitions, I was talking about real world definitions. I say that because everyone seems to think I meant what the word 'keyword' means in Magic. While I am pretty knowledgeable about the rules, I've never sat down and read the comprehensive rule book and so was unfamiliar with the fact that 'keyword' and 'ability word' are actual terms in the game of magic with rules definitions. I am aware of that now and understand the difference.
Also, thank you for being the first person to actually answer my question, which was how people knew it was a keyword. The fact that ability words are in italics and keywords are not was also something I was unaware of. So now I know why this is a keyword.
I think it would have better served as an ability word, much more room to work. I think as it stands as a static ability, barring something that makes it moderately easy to stack multiple instances of Prowess, it will probably turn out to be a weak keyword. By itself it's nothing too amazing. Along side some kind of mechanic that allows for easy recasting of spells, such as flashback or buyback, it has some nice deck building applications. I'll reserve full judgment until more of the set has been spoiled. But preliminary thoughts, it does seem weak without some good amount of support.
Prowess is really bland at first glance, but depending on the context the mechanic is going to be played in, could be pretty interesting.
As for the tri-lands, well, Modern will like them!
The existing ally tri-lands see almost no use in Modern.