@jonny: The format of the pre-PTQ is going to be left up to the store that is holding it. Some stores will run non-Standard events, but in general you should expect to see Standard, because it gets the most players, thus making it the most profitable for that particular store. We'll probably see more Modern events than Sealed though, at least there is that. At least Forsythe guaranteed that one regional PTQ(per year per region) would be Modern.
I feel like the way they should have worked the PPTQ-RPTQ is as follows: Each store gets to run 4 PPTQs per year. 3 of those have to match the format they are leading up to, one is 'Dealer's Choice'.
@jonny: The format of the pre-PTQ is going to be left up to the store that is holding it. Some stores will run non-Standard events, but in general you should expect to see Standard, because it gets the most players, thus making it the most profitable for that particular store. We'll probably see more Modern events than Sealed though, at least there is that. At least Forsythe guaranteed that one regional PTQ(per year per region) would be Modern.
I feel like the way they should have worked the PPTQ-RPTQ is as follows: Each store gets to run 4 PPTQs per year. 3 of those have to match the format they are leading up to, one is 'Dealer's Choice'.
I don't think that would have worked too well for ensuring Modern would be represented. Under the 4-PT system in place this past year, there was 1 Modern season, 1 Standard Season, Single-Set Sealed, and Full-Block Sealed. What is to stop stores from just all using their "dealer's choice" to change Modern to another Standard?
I think a better method would be to say that each store has to run 1 Sealed, 1 Standard, and 1 Modern PTQQ and can run the fourth one in the format of their choice. At least that ends up no worse for Modern players than the current system.
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I think a better method would be to say that each store has to run 1 Sealed, 1 Standard, and 1 Modern PTQQ and can run the fourth one in the format of their choice. At least that ends up no worse for Modern players than the current system.
This is what I said/was trying to say, though I think it would be better if the PPTQ formats lined up to the Regional PTQ, except for the variable one.
As a Wizard's apologist, this is a terrible move. Why play other formats. I would also guess that this means no Modern Masters 2 next year, maybe ever.
I am sure that they will eventually make an MM2. After all, it made them tons of money and we know what Wizards loves.
I just don't see what they had to do this.
But will it make money with no Modern PTQs and no Modern PTs? I don't know how it will.
Yes, if it's as fun as MM1. Take it from me, I have no interest in Modern, at all, but even I took a trip out to GP Vegas, because not only was it an amazing and fun format, but it was a two week trip to Vegas.
That's really it, it's a fun draft format, just like Cube or Vintage Masters, and interest in the format itself doesn't have to really exist for the limited product to be good... After all, what was Conspiracy?
So we get the enemy colored painlands and not the allied color ones? Well that's reverse of the norm, but I thought Wizards was planning to do full 10 land cycles from now on.
Enemy pains could indicate allied Fetches in the next set, to offset the colour imbalance. It would also make sense since it would allow Modern to have access to all 10 Fetches as opposed to only 5.
Or you could read the article, and now that's not true.
Ohh good, it only took three pages to see a comment about banning fetchlands.
Edit:
So Modern isn't a good PT format because it doesn't show off newer sets.
So a little recap, they said Theros has Modern in mind. Then they proceed to release probably one
of the most disappointing blocks ever, and now they are complaining that nobody shows off their coolio cards. This isn't like your kids' crappy art drawings that you pin on the fridge to make them feel good. If you want Modern to show off newer sets, print stuff that will actually affects Modern. This doesn't necessarily mean stuff like Deathrite Shaman, but at least put some effort into it.
It's funny because they've actually been making more cards for legacy (not on purpose I bet) than for modern.
Even then Theros has dissapointed the most out of any block in the past 6 years with only one card worth legacy play: Eidolon of the Great Revel.
Ohh good, it only took three pages to see a comment about banning fetchlands.
Edit:
So Modern isn't a good PT format because it doesn't show off newer sets.
So a little recap, they said Theros has Modern in mind. Then they proceed to release probably one
of the most disappointing blocks ever, and now they are complaining that nobody shows off their coolio cards. This isn't like your kids' crappy art drawings that you pin on the fridge to make them feel good. If you want Modern to show off newer sets, print stuff that will actually affects Modern. This doesn't necessarily mean stuff like Deathrite Shaman, but at least put some effort into it.
It's funny because they've actually been making more cards for legacy (not on purpose I bet) than for modern.
Even then Theros has dissapointed the most out of any block in the past 6 years with only one card worth legacy play: Eidolon of the Great Revel.
To be fair, Ashen Rider is sideboarded for Show and Tell and is strictly better than Angel of Despair in Reanimator and Brimaz sometimes sees play as a 1-of in Death and Taxes.
1. WoTC sells sealed product.
2. WoTC makes profit through sales.
3. Profit pays for R&D.
4. R&D produces new product.
5. Go To 1.
Put a strong Modern format in the equation and you have this:
1. WoTC sells a lot less sealed product.
2. WoTC makes a lot less profit.
3. A lot less is spent for R&D.
4. R&D produces less and lower quality product.
5. Go To 1.
If you want to play Magic (any format) you have to root for Standard to be very successful and hyper-supported. That's the format that keeps the game alive, both financially (the reason why WoTC keeps making it) and from a player base perspective as that's the entry format to the game (and new players entering the player base ultimately is what keeps the game alive: stop new entries and the game will just die).
If people are so upset about not having a modern format to play than just don't go to the PT's anymore. Eventually as attendance plummets, wizards will realise they messed up and probably go back to the way they used to. Wizards don't care about what the customer wants because they never ask us what we want. Remember the last poll they did? How old are you and how often do you play? That doesn't tell them much, heck I would have rather had a much longer one where they ask you whether or not you like specific mechanics or if you feel theros is too weak. But no they only care about how much they sell and if they sell alot they assume they did the right thing. If you don't go to the PTs then they will assume the changes they did weren't for the better.
The poll you're talking about was much, MUCH longer than just two questions assuming you're talking about the M15 Godbook poll. If you only saw the age and play frequency questions it's because either the quotas for the poll had either already been reached or you selected an option that led to your immediate disqualification. I work for a polling company so I know how these things work.
For being close to the worst format Standard receives way too much support. It's everywhere, all the time. And in 2015 there will be far more of it... /throws up at the mere thought of it.
Even worse, the next year's Standard is looking to be the worst in many years (looking at Theros Block + M15), so if Khanks is not absolutely groundbreaking (very low chance) it will be a good time to take a break from following this game.
All hope in independent tournament organizers and the May 2015 set.
Oh no, this isn't.
Remember Prophecy and Urza block? Prophecy was the most boring set, and a common card is the most valuable card in the set at 2 or 3 bucks. Urza was so busted that it almost broke the game.
For being close to the worst format Standard receives way too much support. It's everywhere, all the time. And in 2015 there will be far more of it... /throws up at the mere thought of it.
Even worse, the next year's Standard is looking to be the worst in many years (looking at Theros Block + M15), so if Khanks is not absolutely groundbreaking (very low chance) it will be a good time to take a break from following this game.
All hope in independent tournament organizers and the May 2015 set.
Oh no, this isn't.
Remember Prophecy and Urza block? Prophecy was the most boring set, and a common card is the most valuable card in the set at 2 or 3 bucks. Urza was so busted that it almost broke the game.
RTR supported modern really (too) well.... Innstrad was great for modern.... It was kinda just Theros that failed to.. there was a little bit of merfolk help and thats it.
The high value cards are good for wizards because it supports the primary pack opening producers... They get rewarded for just opening packs.
"oh this card is worth how much?"
"Yeah its good in modern"
"Oh" *trades for standard cards*
I have seen it happen all the time.
I feel like commons reaching dumb levels of value is most annoying $6serum visions seriously? Actually all theros needed was serum visions and it would of been a success for modern.
Modern is a advertisement for the game. It shows the true depth available in the game.
I think the best way to support modern and standard at the same time is simply to raise the power level of standard. When standard is at a higher power level, it can contain more cards at higher power levels, and these cards are more likely to make an impact on eternal formats. Case in point: Innistrad/RTR standard. It contained Liliana of the Veil, Snapcaster Mage, Abrupt Decay, Sphinx's Revelation, Supreme Verdict...and yet, there were few cards that were sore thumbs power-level wise. Do I support every standard to be at the level of Inn/RTR? No, and one of the main reasons it was so strong was the mana fixing (making it easy to just play 4c/5c good stuff). I know I rambled a lot, but the point I am trying to make is that a power level somewhere between where we are now and where we were a year ago would be good for everyone.
From where I sit as a non-competative player, I am glad to see no modern PT's. I find the rotation of Standard to be much more varied tban Modern. Modern is always the same mix of decks at the top with little variety. Affinity, America Control, Pod, Twin. At least I know Rev/Verdict are gone come October so I don't have to worry about my least favorite cards mucking up all of the tournaments to come. I welcome this change.
From where I sit as a non-competative player, I am glad to see no modern PT's. I find the rotation of Standard to be much more varied tban Modern. Modern is always the same mix of decks at the top with little variety. Affinity, America Control, Pod, Twin. At least I know Rev/Verdict are gone come October so I don't have to worry about my least favorite cards mucking up all of the tournaments to come. I welcome this change.
So you're a non competitive player who doesnt attend PTQs or GPs, and you say you are glad that they are taking away from the diversity of events other people go to and enjoy?
Wow dude, way to be an awful person. Yeesh.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I thought they really wanted to push Modern as a format, and I was planning on taking my first shot next year. Sheesh, I guess Standard and Draft sell more packs. I'm very disappointed.
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
What Havrekjex said. I bought BNGs because I could trade it for modern, and started buying cards for modern just to find out about this. Now I'm not going to compete, and I'm going to go back to buying singletons for my EDH and kitchen table decks because of this. Nothing has come from standard that I want this year, and I am not going to continue to buy tons of packs just to get a bunch of cards I don't need or want. Standard has never been fun for me, the card pool is too limited, creativity is therefore limited, and the main thing I like about magic is deck building I love finding synergy between cards, and abusing the hell out of it. Standard just doesn't do that for me.
3-4 blocks time, neo-modern, using the new-new border. I speculated about a new border being introduced about 18 months back and was right, and predicted that modern would be shook up alongside it due to modern's increasing inaccessibility to newer players.
"Modern" will either be axed completely, or renamed.
I have been thinking the same thing. That way there will be Vintage, Legacy, Modern to THS, New Modern with the M15 border, and then we can have additional products aimed for a subset of these four eternal formats.
3-4 blocks time, neo-modern, using the new-new border. I speculated about a new border being introduced about 18 months back and was right, and predicted that modern would be shook up alongside it due to modern's increasing inaccessibility to newer players.
"Modern" will either be axed completely, or renamed.
I have been thinking the same thing. That way there will be Vintage, Legacy, Modern to THS, New Modern with the M15 border, and then we can have additional products aimed for a subset of these four eternal formats.
What would be the point of doing this, though? If that happened then they may as well just completely do away with Modern because if I'm understanding right, then Modern could never have another card added to it's card pool ever again. The only way to ever change up the format would be to ban some cards and unban others and even that novelty would wear off quickly. I honestly cannot think of a reason to justify something like that.
What was the actual issue with extended? Was it the lack of support, the format itself or was it just that during the end of its life, there were too many oppressive standard decks being ported to extended that bogged down the metagame?
What was the actual issue with extended? Was it the lack of support, the format itself or was it just that during the end of its life, there were too many oppressive standard decks being ported to extended that bogged down the metagame?
well before oficially killing it they reduced the card pool ( Extended was like a 3 year standard ( Lorwyn - Alara - Zendikar)(Alara - Zendikar - Scars)) ( before when Ravnica was in onslaught was legal ( if i m not wrong)).
the formart itself had losed its popularity before they started to kill it ...
What was the actual issue with extended? Was it the lack of support, the format itself or was it just that during the end of its life, there were too many oppressive standard decks being ported to extended that bogged down the metagame?
well before oficially killing it they reduced the card pool ( Extended was like a 3 year standard ( Lorwyn - Alara - Zendikar)(Alara - Zendikar - Scars)) ( before when Ravnica was in onslaught was legal ( if i m not wrong)).
the formart itself had losed its popularity before they started to kill it ...
I miss old old extended, back when it was like Invasion Block to Mirrodin Block. I never really understood why they didn't do more to support some kind of format after standard where you could still use your cards, Modern is pretty much to a point now where very little in current sets actually has any bearing on it, when Theros block rotates out, you might as well shred your cards, at least RTR block had some useful stuff in it.
When Theros block rotates out, you might as well shred your cards, at least RTR block had some useful stuff in it.
I'm considering it.
But then again, it might be useful if any of my friends who doesn't play Magic decides to get into the game. I would have a stack full of useless cards to at least teach them how to play the game.
As a guy who has no [explitive]s to give about modern or block and only cares about mtg within the confines of standard and limited, i'm still not a fan of this change. If I were really hard up for watching a standard tourney I'd tune in to scg opens more regularly, the pts i expect to have a somewhat wider range of necessary skills required from its players since they're all, yknow, pros on the pro tour. I want my pros to be able to compete in a swathe of american gladiator style challenges, not a bland unchanging wrestling ring. Even if i only payed a little attention to the non-standard events i liked that the pro point and team rivalry angles rolled over to a pro tour I did want to watch, it made them rare and exciting. If khans standard season ends up like the last 3 have been we'll also see basically the same decks from set 1 until rotation which could not disinterest me more as a viewer for 4 consecutive events, this is why I watch scg opens maybe 6 or 7 times a year, because it's basically the same event over and over and over every week. Keep the summer and fall pts as standard so we can see a fully fleshed out standard format with the perfectly tuned decks we'll look back on as the historical staples of that time and then an entirely new format where nothing is certain yet and the pro teams wildly scramble to find the most efficient brews. For the winter and spring pts, do something else. Anything else. If modern and block aren't putting butts in chairs than get crazy, do a two headed giant or commander pt or something, i don't care. Don't give us 4 straight pts of standard.
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I feel like the way they should have worked the PPTQ-RPTQ is as follows: Each store gets to run 4 PPTQs per year. 3 of those have to match the format they are leading up to, one is 'Dealer's Choice'.
I don't think that would have worked too well for ensuring Modern would be represented. Under the 4-PT system in place this past year, there was 1 Modern season, 1 Standard Season, Single-Set Sealed, and Full-Block Sealed. What is to stop stores from just all using their "dealer's choice" to change Modern to another Standard?
I think a better method would be to say that each store has to run 1 Sealed, 1 Standard, and 1 Modern PTQQ and can run the fourth one in the format of their choice. At least that ends up no worse for Modern players than the current system.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
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(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
This is what I said/was trying to say, though I think it would be better if the PPTQ formats lined up to the Regional PTQ, except for the variable one.
Yes, if it's as fun as MM1. Take it from me, I have no interest in Modern, at all, but even I took a trip out to GP Vegas, because not only was it an amazing and fun format, but it was a two week trip to Vegas.
That's really it, it's a fun draft format, just like Cube or Vintage Masters, and interest in the format itself doesn't have to really exist for the limited product to be good... After all, what was Conspiracy?
Oh... Ok... Clearly.
It's funny because they've actually been making more cards for legacy (not on purpose I bet) than for modern.
Even then Theros has dissapointed the most out of any block in the past 6 years with only one card worth legacy play: Eidolon of the Great Revel.
To be fair, Ashen Rider is sideboarded for Show and Tell and is strictly better than Angel of Despair in Reanimator and Brimaz sometimes sees play as a 1-of in Death and Taxes.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
1. WoTC sells sealed product.
2. WoTC makes profit through sales.
3. Profit pays for R&D.
4. R&D produces new product.
5. Go To 1.
Put a strong Modern format in the equation and you have this:
1. WoTC sells a lot less sealed product.
2. WoTC makes a lot less profit.
3. A lot less is spent for R&D.
4. R&D produces less and lower quality product.
5. Go To 1.
If you want to play Magic (any format) you have to root for Standard to be very successful and hyper-supported. That's the format that keeps the game alive, both financially (the reason why WoTC keeps making it) and from a player base perspective as that's the entry format to the game (and new players entering the player base ultimately is what keeps the game alive: stop new entries and the game will just die).
The poll you're talking about was much, MUCH longer than just two questions assuming you're talking about the M15 Godbook poll. If you only saw the age and play frequency questions it's because either the quotas for the poll had either already been reached or you selected an option that led to your immediate disqualification. I work for a polling company so I know how these things work.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Oh no, this isn't.
Remember Prophecy and Urza block? Prophecy was the most boring set, and a common card is the most valuable card in the set at 2 or 3 bucks. Urza was so busted that it almost broke the game.
"Almost"? :>
The high value cards are good for wizards because it supports the primary pack opening producers... They get rewarded for just opening packs.
"oh this card is worth how much?"
"Yeah its good in modern"
"Oh" *trades for standard cards*
I have seen it happen all the time.
I feel like commons reaching dumb levels of value is most annoying $6serum visions seriously? Actually all theros needed was serum visions and it would of been a success for modern.
Modern is a advertisement for the game. It shows the true depth available in the game.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
So you're a non competitive player who doesnt attend PTQs or GPs, and you say you are glad that they are taking away from the diversity of events other people go to and enjoy?
Wow dude, way to be an awful person. Yeesh.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
I have been thinking the same thing. That way there will be Vintage, Legacy, Modern to THS, New Modern with the M15 border, and then we can have additional products aimed for a subset of these four eternal formats.
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What would be the point of doing this, though? If that happened then they may as well just completely do away with Modern because if I'm understanding right, then Modern could never have another card added to it's card pool ever again. The only way to ever change up the format would be to ban some cards and unban others and even that novelty would wear off quickly. I honestly cannot think of a reason to justify something like that.
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well before oficially killing it they reduced the card pool ( Extended was like a 3 year standard ( Lorwyn - Alara - Zendikar)(Alara - Zendikar - Scars)) ( before when Ravnica was in onslaught was legal ( if i m not wrong)).
the formart itself had losed its popularity before they started to kill it ...
I miss old old extended, back when it was like Invasion Block to Mirrodin Block. I never really understood why they didn't do more to support some kind of format after standard where you could still use your cards, Modern is pretty much to a point now where very little in current sets actually has any bearing on it, when Theros block rotates out, you might as well shred your cards, at least RTR block had some useful stuff in it.
I'm considering it.
But then again, it might be useful if any of my friends who doesn't play Magic decides to get into the game. I would have a stack full of useless cards to at least teach them how to play the game.