Ok.... I understand why they have to do this? Events are too big, there is not enough space in the actual pro tour. And basically only the best should be at the pro tour. I guess that makes sense.. so it is hard to be angry at them for it.
It is just a crushing of dreams.
Its not just the price of cards to have to play all formats, I would have to take a 3 hour flight to attend a regional PTQ, there is 1 (maybe two) stores in my city (of 2 mill) that can even host a PPTQ there will surely not be a regional PTQ in my city. That one store has to hire a hall for prerealeases and run 4 of them over the weekend. The store is doing its best to support players, by sponsoring them. Is that looks like what the future looks like winners of PTQ will need the stores help to get the cards and get to the real PTQ.
there wouldn't be anything inherently wrong with running more Pro Tour tournaments in a given year. add an extra event to the roster, what's the big difference? it means more events for people to go to, more opportunities for people to play magic, more coverage, more interest, etc.
same goes for PTQs. instead of splitting it into tiers, and having less of the large events (tier 2), with top 8 being awarded tickets... why not just have more large PTQs with 1st place getting the ticket, as before?
you end up with the same number of tickets, but more tournaments, more interest, more coverage, more people getting to play magic.
for those smaller, grass-roots preliminary PTQ events, you won't get the buzz, the coverage, the large-event feel.
now here's a crazy idea!
you hold more big PTQ events, with only 1st place awarding plane tickets. those are your premier-events and having more of them makes them more accessible.
and also, you hold numerous smaller events, more regularly. winning - say - four (or some reasonable number) of these events over a season gives you a PT invite. or you can trade each 1st place for a bye in a large PTQ event if you aren't able to pay the cost for travel to the Pro Tour. this gives you more of a chance at winning the ticket.
this way, the large events still maintain their importance, giving out plane tickets; smaller events are able to furnish you with a PT invite after several consecutive 1st place finishes (but no ticket) or byes.
you'd still get to go to your 2 or 3 PTQ events a year, but between doing that, you'd be able to improve your standing at a much nearer and more convenient location. local stores would reap benefits, and the 1st-place-byes would encourage local players with reasonable records to make the jump into the larger events. it wouldn't be a formal 2-tier system, you wouldn't *have* to go through small and large tournaments to get your PT invite, but getting that plane ticket would be associated with the larger events. before you jump down my throat saying that this would be putting people with lower incomes at a disadvantage, it isn't any different from the current system. it only gives you *more* options, not less.
makes sense to me.
Actually, there would be something wrong with more Pro Tours. They want to have different Limited formats for each Pro Tour and they only release 4 sets in a year.
I personally benefit from this new system because Pastimes in Chicago is probably getting the Regional PTQ for the midwest and MTGcardmarket is offering a split of Modern and Sealed PPTQs. However, I think that Wizards should have added more RPTQS for Europe, Asia, and South America.
The PTQ system is pretty terrible, and I feel sorry for anyone living outside of the US on this one. Adding another tier adds in a lot of variance to combat trying to get into a PT only to miss out and have to re-qualify for the next one. This would be a lot less of a turn off it they also allowed you to qualify for a PT for the year off the back of one of these. I recall Brian Kibler openly making comments in regards to this and the PT structure that was in place - coming from someone who never has to qualify for another PT, this is saying a lot.
I dislike that I have to combat more variance for a one time shot in a PT for the year. Handing out 5th-8th an invite to the next PTQ addresses this a little bit, but not really enough to keep me too terribly interested and the main reason for this is that it adds to the amount of time I need to take off working, to go to wherever the Regional PTQ is. It is already asking a lot for me to book GP's to attend so I have time off work and now they are just adding more time I need to request off in a season. To compound this issue, I also don't get any reimbursement for this in any way, whatsoever. The entry to the PPTQ is another issue, because if it is set too low, you lose the focus of a competitive environment, set it too high and expenses grows even more than it needed to in the first place.
This brings me to the next section, the GP changes.
More GP's and more slots getting invites to the PTQ is a clear recognition that the game is growing. It also helps alleviate expenses for PPTQ's and PTQ's, because I can focus on the GP a bit more instead. Still, the odds of hitting top 8 in a GP are slim given the size of these events.
Getting an invite for hitting 39 match points, may not seem like a big deal to most of you, but it is.
The Grand Prix changes are phenomenal in my opinion, and it is a great way to help make up for the PTQ structure by being much more rewarding for players playing in them.
Overall, I think the changes are balanced and do a good job making the game more rewarding for those looking to get on to the PT and continue to the next PT but they are doing this in a really awkward day if you are a PTQ grinder.
Yeah I agree with all of this. The changes suck if you're a PTQ grinder but the GP changes are really nothing but good things.
Im concerned since the only time I ever got to go to a PTQ was during the Modern season since I only play Modern. But now no store is going to host a Modern event. It likely will be Standard and Sealed since it makes them the most money and sells more singles. Now im SOL and I likely wont ever be able to participate in these events. If Wizards FORCED stores to do a certain format ever season it would be way more fair.
This change seems unfortunate for Modern-only players, but on the bright side, you guys recently got SCG Premier IQs. Unless you actually care about the playing on the Pro Tour (which I doubt, since you're not also grinding Block, Standard, or Limited), this is a net win. I will gladly take well-run SCG Opens (or in Modern's case, Premier IQs) nearly every weekend with generous prize support over playing in an often disorganized PTQ (depending on the TO) with poor prize support because of the disproportionate value that others assign to the airfare associated with the PT invite.
I agree WotC has already made it perfectly clear they are not catering to one format specialists if you are a pro. We no longer live in the days of a standard specialist that can just do well during standard PT's and PTQ's. The only place where "format specialists" can still do well is at the GP level (even then the local GP's may just be the wrong format) and at working with the SCG tournament system. Of course doing well at that GP just means you will likely be put out once you get to the PT, because at best you get the format you want but you still are forced to do decent in the draft portion.
That's fine, there are plenty of players who don't have pro aspirations and don't care about pursuing a Pro Tour bid.
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
It's better as a whole for taking it from a game to a sport. 99% of the population is bad at football, golf, baseball, etc. too, but people still love to watch the greats and play casually on occasion. Magic is easier to play, so if it can grow the game as a sport and bring in advertising funds, it can really help the game bring in new players as it becomes more popular. But you need personalities. You need recognizable names on camera. Cinderella stories are good, but their even better when that person continues to make a name for him/herself through commitment to the game. I think these changes promote GP play, which is great, while improving the quality of players coming from PTQs. There are downsides for some people, but there will always be with any system.
I guess people that want MTG to be a serious "sport" would like this kind of change, however I have a hard time believing that's anything but a tiny minority. But even those sports you mention have various levels of competition, and the PTQ was Magic's primary mid-level competitive arena. A few times a year I could get up a bit early on a Saturday and go play in a 200 person event. Now I fear that has gone away.
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If the Vikings were around today, they would probably be amazed at how much glow-in-the-dark stuff we have, and how we take it for granted.
It's better as a whole for taking it from a game to a sport. 99% of the population is bad at football, golf, baseball, etc. too, but people still love to watch the greats and play casually on occasion. Magic is easier to play, so if it can grow the game as a sport and bring in advertising funds, it can really help the game bring in new players as it becomes more popular. But you need personalities. You need recognizable names on camera. Cinderella stories are good, but their even better when that person continues to make a name for him/herself through commitment to the game. I think these changes promote GP play, which is great, while improving the quality of players coming from PTQs. There are downsides for some people, but there will always be with any system.
I guess people that want MTG to be a serious "sport" would like this kind of change, however I have a hard time believing that's anything but a tiny minority. But even those sports you mention have various levels of competition, and the PTQ was Magic's primary mid-level competitive arena. A few times a year I could get up a bit early on a Saturday and go play in a 200 person event. Now I fear that has gone away.
It doesn't matter how many people like or dislike an idea. It matters whether it is good or bad. This is going to be bad for a fair number of players who are just average and didn't have time to improve. But it's better for the game's growth if it works properly. There will be less 200 player tourneys in regions now, but there will be more 50-150 depending on region. Things change, and this is just one that people will learn to live with. If the game grows how WOTC wants it to, this is a great change.
They can't give more and more invites to PTs, and this is a way to cut down on the number of PT invites. Nobody wants there to be fewer PT invites (except for people already going), so whatever way they did this would make people sad.
Well, why can't they give more and more PT invites?
Because PTs are special. They are the best of the best. The more players you add, these each of those statements is true. They wanted PTs at somewhere around 300 a little over a year ago, and the last PT was ~400. They had to cut back somewhere, and as mentioned above, this does increase overall skill on the PT meaning my second statement above becomes more true.
Pro Tour Born of the Gods was won by someone who qualified from a PTQ. Qualifying by PTQ does not mean that you don't have skill.
I responded to this already, but as I was watching the PT I realized that this was just 100% not true. The winner of PT Born qualified by top 25ing PT Theros. Remember to fact check before you start stating facts.
It is just a crushing of dreams.
Its not just the price of cards to have to play all formats, I would have to take a 3 hour flight to attend a regional PTQ, there is 1 (maybe two) stores in my city (of 2 mill) that can even host a PPTQ there will surely not be a regional PTQ in my city. That one store has to hire a hall for prerealeases and run 4 of them over the weekend. The store is doing its best to support players, by sponsoring them. Is that looks like what the future looks like winners of PTQ will need the stores help to get the cards and get to the real PTQ.
MTG is a rich persons game.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Actually, there would be something wrong with more Pro Tours. They want to have different Limited formats for each Pro Tour and they only release 4 sets in a year.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yeah I agree with all of this. The changes suck if you're a PTQ grinder but the GP changes are really nothing but good things.
That's fine, there are plenty of players who don't have pro aspirations and don't care about pursuing a Pro Tour bid.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingI guess people that want MTG to be a serious "sport" would like this kind of change, however I have a hard time believing that's anything but a tiny minority. But even those sports you mention have various levels of competition, and the PTQ was Magic's primary mid-level competitive arena. A few times a year I could get up a bit early on a Saturday and go play in a 200 person event. Now I fear that has gone away.
It doesn't matter how many people like or dislike an idea. It matters whether it is good or bad. This is going to be bad for a fair number of players who are just average and didn't have time to improve. But it's better for the game's growth if it works properly. There will be less 200 player tourneys in regions now, but there will be more 50-150 depending on region. Things change, and this is just one that people will learn to live with. If the game grows how WOTC wants it to, this is a great change.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
I responded to this already, but as I was watching the PT I realized that this was just 100% not true. The winner of PT Born qualified by top 25ing PT Theros. Remember to fact check before you start stating facts.
Source: http://archive.wizards.com/magic/tcg/events.aspx?x=mtg/event/protour/bornofthegods13-invitations
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!