A lot of positives here. Now you will have to play in a PTQQ to qualify for the regional PTQ. Top 4/8 based on attendance from that tournament get invited to the PT.
What I would really like to know is that along with these changes, are they finally going to update / make a new reporting software that can handle the large turnouts in events?
Did workable computer software(Not MTGO, DotP15, OR Reporter) kick and punch the top brass's baby or something?
A lot of positives here. Now you will have to play in a PTQQ to qualify for the regional PTQ. Top 4/8 based on attendance from that tournament get invited to the PT.
How is people who already won a PTQ having to go to a second event which will probably cost them loads of money to travel to before they even have the chance to get to the PT a positive thing? If I won a PTQ, I now need to hope I have the money to travel to a Regional event which will probably only have 1 in the whole of the UK.
I live in Canada and I wonder how far I'll be expected to travel to play in a PTQ. I feel bad for the people on every other continent who have it even worse.
I loved the big PTQs several times a year. Now it'll be a bunch of smaller events which we already have plenty of.
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If the Vikings were around today, they would probably be amazed at how much glow-in-the-dark stuff we have, and how we take it for granted.
I live in Canada and I wonder how far I'll be expected to travel to play in a PTQ. I feel bad for the people on every other continent who have it even worse.
I loved the big PTQs several times a year. Now it'll be a bunch of smaller events which we already have plenty of.
I live in Canada and I wonder how far I'll be expected to travel to play in a PTQ. I feel bad for the people on every other continent who have it even worse.
I loved the big PTQs several times a year. Now it'll be a bunch of smaller events which we already have plenty of.
You misread, the number of "PTQ's" wont change, instead each PTQ will only give you an invite to a stage two tournament of which there will be 31 a year. In fact there will be more lower level PTQ's but the overall problem is players having to pay more to just attend the PT
The only way this can be worth it is if the new "Regional Qualifiers" give enough reimbursement to the 100 players to actually reward them. Turning the PTQ into winning a ticket to another qualifier means you don't really win much. It changes from an actual tournament with a great prize to a Competative REL FNM which gives you the ability to actually go to a PTQ
I live in Canada and I wonder how far I'll be expected to travel to play in a PTQ. I feel bad for the people on every other continent who have it even worse.
I loved the big PTQs several times a year. Now it'll be a bunch of smaller events which we already have plenty of.
You misread, the number of "PTQ's" wont change, instead each PTQ will only give you an invite to a stage two tournament of which there will be 31 a year. In fact there will be more lower level PTQ's but the overall problem is players having to pay more to just attend the PT
I didn't misread, I understood that. You win a "preliminary" PTQ to earn the right to play in the real PTQ. Of course, I'm sure you don't win any travel compensation for that real PTQ which could be a thousand miles away.
I'm wondering how many PPTQ winners actually end up going to the PTQ. I think WOTC is seriously overestimating how much people will be willing to travel just to play in these "Regional" PTQs.
So to sum up:
Currently, you win a PTQ you get airfare to play in a tournament with tens of thousands of dollars of prize support.
In the future, winning a "PPTQ" will get you nothing but the right to play in another tournament, who knows how far away, with minimal prizes and a 1/25 chance of getting that coveted flight and invite.
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If the Vikings were around today, they would probably be amazed at how much glow-in-the-dark stuff we have, and how we take it for granted.
They can't give more and more invites to PTs, and this is a way to cut down on the number of PT invites. Nobody wants there to be fewer PT invites (except for people already going), so whatever way they did this would make people sad.
This is simply bad tournament management. You have to spend money on travel to make top 4/8 after winning your PTQ. Why is every change they make looks like they are trying to destroy the competitive community? They should run Organized Play like a sport! nationals, GPs, PTs.. but this.. i simply can't understand!
And the reasons for the change..do they even make sense??
PTQs are getting larger and larger, so them changing the system was hardly unexpected.
However, I agree that this is not a good solution for anybody outside of the US. People now have to pay a lot more money and do a lot more travelling to even get a chance at making the PT. It does make it a lot harder for people who just play in PTQs when they're nearby to qualify. Maybe that was their goal.
One of the worst decisions Organized Play has made ever. They just increased the odds of a US player becoming a PT champ, and making it more geographically inaccessible to non-US players.
And we haven't even gone to the financial bit yet.
This is simply bad tournament management. You have to spend money on travel to make top 4/8 after winning your PTQ. Why is every change they make looks like they are trying to destroy the competitive community? They should run Organized Play like a sport! nationals, GPs, PTs.. but this.. i simply can't understand!
And the reasons for the change..do they even make sense??
PTQs are getting larger and larger, so them changing the system was hardly unexpected.
However, I agree that this is not a good solution for anybody outside of the US. People now have to pay a lot more money and do a lot more travelling to even get a chance at making the PT. It does make it a lot harder for people who just play in PTQs when they're nearby to qualify. Maybe that was their goal.
That hardly makes sense as a reason. Since it could lower tournament entry. The only reason I can see for this is wanting more "Reasonably" large tournaments for their advance stores to host. Currently only 3 or 4 stores per country in europe get to host PTQ's this would give more stores tournies. And I'm sure there might be good prizes just for attending an invitational because no one would want to be the store that hosted an event which over 100 people qualified for and only 20 attended.
This is simply bad tournament management. You have to spend money on travel to make top 4/8 after winning your PTQ. Why is every change they make looks like they are trying to destroy the competitive community? They should run Organized Play like a sport! nationals, GPs, PTs.. but this.. i simply can't understand!
And the reasons for the change..do they even make sense??
PTQs are getting larger and larger, so them changing the system was hardly unexpected.
However, I agree that this is not a good solution for anybody outside of the US. People now have to pay a lot more money and do a lot more travelling to even get a chance at making the PT. It does make it a lot harder for people who just play in PTQs when they're nearby to qualify. Maybe that was their goal.
That hardly makes sense as a reason. Since it could lower tournament entry. The only reason I can see for this is wanting more "Reasonably" large tournaments for their advance stores to host. Currently only 3 or 4 stores per country in europe get to host PTQ's this would give more stores tournies. And I'm sure there might be good prizes just for attending an invitational because no one would want to be the store that hosted an event which over 100 people qualified for and only 20 attended.
They can't give more and more invites to PTs, and this is a way to cut down on the number of PT invites. Nobody wants there to be fewer PT invites (except for people already going), so whatever way they did this would make people sad.
Well, why can't they give more and more PT invites?
This also makes it harder for vendors to bulk buy and sell singles. PTQ's provided an inexpensive chance for smaller vendors to get face-to-face time with customers. Now they can only do that at GP's, Invitationals, and Opens, where the cost and availability are significantly higher.
Translation: singles may become less available and more expensive as a collateral effect from this change.
Also, this makes it harder for smaller countries to send people to the Pro Tour.
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
This also makes it harder for vendors to bulk buy and sell singles. PTQ's provided an inexpensive chance for smaller vendors to get face-to-face time with customers. Now they can only do that at GP's, Invitationals, and Opens, where the cost and availability are significantly higher.
Translation: singles may become less available and more expensive as a collateral effect from this change.
While there are lots of issues with this change, I don't think this is one of them. The lion's share of all of these companies' sales were either online or through their brick and mortar store (if they had one), not at these events. I doubt this will have any appreciable impact on singles prices, except that people won't see the occasional great sales that vendors sometimes had at these events.
This also makes it harder for vendors to bulk buy and sell singles. PTQ's provided an inexpensive chance for smaller vendors to get face-to-face time with customers. Now they can only do that at GP's, Invitationals, and Opens, where the cost and availability are significantly higher.
Translation: singles may become less available and more expensive as a collateral effect from this change.
While there are lots of issues with this change, I don't think this is one of them. The lion's share of all of these companies' sales were either online or through their brick and mortar store (if they had one), not at these events. I doubt this will have any appreciable impact on singles prices, except that people won't see the occasional great sales that vendors sometimes had at these events.
At first , I saw this and didn't really feel concerned. I saw another vendor mention something like this as well. How common is external vending at PTQs? I've been to at least 20 in the last 18 months, and I think only 2 I've seen external vendors (as in, not the store). One was one where the store's buddy was vending (and vends at all those store events, basically is part of the store), the other had 4 vendors. Does this really hurt? I didn't know it was common for vendors to be at so many PTQs, I've only had the store running it vending most of them.
But guys, if you qualify to go to the real PTQ you'll get a sweet promo!
Seems worth it /sarcasm
On a serious note, it will increase the skill needed to get the invite. You can't luck sack a smaller PTQ for the same prize as an event that is 200+ somewhere else. You still have to go on to win out in an event with players that have a significantly higher skill level.
Edit: this is of course ignoring the problems it creates for the other countries, which is just bad news.
"Stores can choose between running a Standard, Modern, or Sealed Preliminary PTQ during each season, regardless of the format the Pro Tour it leads to."
So, no more " format 'X' season", playing through 3 months of a format, testing, tweaking, tuning and following meta shifts to figure the prefect tech.
Also means nothing but sealed PPTQs in my area.
On a serious note, it will increase the skill needed to get the invite. You can't luck sack a smaller PTQ for the same prize as an event that is 200+ somewhere else. You still have to go on to win out in an event with players that have a significantly higher skill level.
In theory the requisite skill level will be higher, which I like. Moving the PTQ system to a satellite tournament system means that the "big fish in a small pond" will need to prove him or herself in a larger pond first, where it might turn out that, no, he or she was just the biggest minnow back home. It also reduces variance in the sense that you have to spike 2 tournaments in a row, which is harder to do than just spiking one if your skill level isn't actually up to par. I like that aspect of the change.
I echo the concerns about the impact this has on people who might not be able to travel to the regional PTQ. I'll wait until they post those locations before completely condemning the move, and I'm skeptical that this has a disproportionate impact on non-U.S. folk (I haven't yet done the math comparing the old system's U.S.-to-non ratio to the new one), but I certainly understand the concerns. The "optics" (that's the buzzword du jour, right?) aren't great.
They can't give more and more invites to PTs, and this is a way to cut down on the number of PT invites. Nobody wants there to be fewer PT invites (except for people already going), so whatever way they did this would make people sad.
Well, why can't they give more and more PT invites?
Because PTs are special. They are the best of the best. The more players you add, these each of those statements is true. They wanted PTs at somewhere around 300 a little over a year ago, and the last PT was ~400. They had to cut back somewhere, and as mentioned above, this does increase overall skill on the PT meaning my second statement above becomes more true.
My biggest complaint is that you cannot attend more than one ptq per season now. Some seasons I managed to get to two ptqs and if I wanted could have hit up 3. Now I not only have to win an event that will likely hit 50-100 people in my area but then I have to attend a second event and do basically the same thing but if I lose at that event it was my only shot all season. I'm not particularly happy about that.
I'm wonder if they are getting a little ahead of themselves with this whole "Magic is on the up and up" attitude. It could easily see a downswing just as quickly as it saw a rise in popularity, and then they are stuck with this new, horrendous system for the remaining players. This really isn't very friendly to newer players, either.
I was hoping to see changes to the Organized play system to bring Magic more in line with other competitive gaming "sports", and this is basically the opposite of that.
DotA2 just had its International tournament with a prize pool of $10M.
And that's for a game that's free to play.
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PTQs - http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/new-path-pro-tour-2014-07-29
GPs - http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/improving-grand-prix-2014-07-29
Pro Player's Club - http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/new-enhancements-pro-players-club-starting-august-2014-2014-07-29
A lot of positives here. Now you will have to play in a PTQQ to qualify for the regional PTQ. Top 4/8 based on attendance from that tournament get invited to the PT.
Did workable computer software(Not MTGO, DotP15, OR Reporter) kick and punch the top brass's baby or something?
How is people who already won a PTQ having to go to a second event which will probably cost them loads of money to travel to before they even have the chance to get to the PT a positive thing? If I won a PTQ, I now need to hope I have the money to travel to a Regional event which will probably only have 1 in the whole of the UK.
I live in Canada and I wonder how far I'll be expected to travel to play in a PTQ. I feel bad for the people on every other continent who have it even worse.
I loved the big PTQs several times a year. Now it'll be a bunch of smaller events which we already have plenty of.
You misread, the number of "PTQ's" wont change, instead each PTQ will only give you an invite to a stage two tournament of which there will be 31 a year. In fact there will be more lower level PTQ's but the overall problem is players having to pay more to just attend the PT
I didn't misread, I understood that. You win a "preliminary" PTQ to earn the right to play in the real PTQ. Of course, I'm sure you don't win any travel compensation for that real PTQ which could be a thousand miles away.
I'm wondering how many PPTQ winners actually end up going to the PTQ. I think WOTC is seriously overestimating how much people will be willing to travel just to play in these "Regional" PTQs.
So to sum up:
Currently, you win a PTQ you get airfare to play in a tournament with tens of thousands of dollars of prize support.
In the future, winning a "PPTQ" will get you nothing but the right to play in another tournament, who knows how far away, with minimal prizes and a 1/25 chance of getting that coveted flight and invite.
PTQs are getting larger and larger, so them changing the system was hardly unexpected.
However, I agree that this is not a good solution for anybody outside of the US. People now have to pay a lot more money and do a lot more travelling to even get a chance at making the PT. It does make it a lot harder for people who just play in PTQs when they're nearby to qualify. Maybe that was their goal.
And we haven't even gone to the financial bit yet.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
That hardly makes sense as a reason. Since it could lower tournament entry. The only reason I can see for this is wanting more "Reasonably" large tournaments for their advance stores to host. Currently only 3 or 4 stores per country in europe get to host PTQ's this would give more stores tournies. And I'm sure there might be good prizes just for attending an invitational because no one would want to be the store that hosted an event which over 100 people qualified for and only 20 attended.
That hardly makes sense as a reason. Since it could lower tournament entry. The only reason I can see for this is wanting more "Reasonably" large tournaments for their advance stores to host. Currently only 3 or 4 stores per country in europe get to host PTQ's this would give more stores tournies. And I'm sure there might be good prizes just for attending an invitational because no one would want to be the store that hosted an event which over 100 people qualified for and only 20 attended.
Well, why can't they give more and more PT invites?
Translation: singles may become less available and more expensive as a collateral effect from this change.
Also, this makes it harder for smaller countries to send people to the Pro Tour.
In the least, this implies that if it doesn't work, they will fix it.
Not that the current PTQ system needed changing but whatever.
While there are lots of issues with this change, I don't think this is one of them. The lion's share of all of these companies' sales were either online or through their brick and mortar store (if they had one), not at these events. I doubt this will have any appreciable impact on singles prices, except that people won't see the occasional great sales that vendors sometimes had at these events.
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At first , I saw this and didn't really feel concerned. I saw another vendor mention something like this as well. How common is external vending at PTQs? I've been to at least 20 in the last 18 months, and I think only 2 I've seen external vendors (as in, not the store). One was one where the store's buddy was vending (and vends at all those store events, basically is part of the store), the other had 4 vendors. Does this really hurt? I didn't know it was common for vendors to be at so many PTQs, I've only had the store running it vending most of them.
Seems worth it /sarcasm
On a serious note, it will increase the skill needed to get the invite. You can't luck sack a smaller PTQ for the same prize as an event that is 200+ somewhere else. You still have to go on to win out in an event with players that have a significantly higher skill level.
Edit: this is of course ignoring the problems it creates for the other countries, which is just bad news.
So, no more " format 'X' season", playing through 3 months of a format, testing, tweaking, tuning and following meta shifts to figure the prefect tech.
Also means nothing but sealed PPTQs in my area.
In theory the requisite skill level will be higher, which I like. Moving the PTQ system to a satellite tournament system means that the "big fish in a small pond" will need to prove him or herself in a larger pond first, where it might turn out that, no, he or she was just the biggest minnow back home. It also reduces variance in the sense that you have to spike 2 tournaments in a row, which is harder to do than just spiking one if your skill level isn't actually up to par. I like that aspect of the change.
I echo the concerns about the impact this has on people who might not be able to travel to the regional PTQ. I'll wait until they post those locations before completely condemning the move, and I'm skeptical that this has a disproportionate impact on non-U.S. folk (I haven't yet done the math comparing the old system's U.S.-to-non ratio to the new one), but I certainly understand the concerns. The "optics" (that's the buzzword du jour, right?) aren't great.
Because PTs are special. They are the best of the best. The more players you add, these each of those statements is true. They wanted PTs at somewhere around 300 a little over a year ago, and the last PT was ~400. They had to cut back somewhere, and as mentioned above, this does increase overall skill on the PT meaning my second statement above becomes more true.
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DotA2 just had its International tournament with a prize pool of $10M.
And that's for a game that's free to play.
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