Why can Teferi be a Commander when Elspeth, Bolas and Jace cannot?
Because he has that text saying that he can be a commander. There is no Vorthos explanation. I'm actually slightly disappointed for the implications this has for Planeswalker-Commander as a format. The beauty of EDH is that you can take any Legend and build a deck, they don't need to be specifically designed for the task (like the similar-for-Vorthos Vanguard did). I dreamt of a day when a similar format would be available to do the same for Planeswalkers, but this is likely to draw away interest from that. It's a very minor quibble, though.
Then why is Teferi not way more powerful? Pre mending walkers should be so powerful that they should never be printed.
So, back in the day it was asked by many why planeswalkers weren't on cards, with the assumption that they would be creature cards because there was no Planeswalker type yet. As creatures, they would be much too large to print at sensible costs, and arguably they'd be overpowered even at unmanageably high costs because of reanimation and similar tricks to cheat creatures into play. So people kept saying that planeswalkers were too powerful to print, over and over again, until they forgot what the reason was. Meanwhile, the plot of Time Spiral was engineered to rob planeswalkers of their excessive power to remove this impediment and also to make them more relatable and make it easier to tell stories specifically about them. In Future Sight, they got around to actually designing a Planeswalker card, but they didn't finish in time and replaced it with Tarmogoyf. As it happens, though, the way they elected to represent the planeswalker on the card was with "loyalty". This card represents calling for aid from a fellow planeswalker (it's interesting that all this talk of the depowering of walkers overlooks the fact that players, who are explicitly planeswalkers, did not receive any gameplay handicaps in the process) who will cast from their own repertoire of spells as governed by how loyal they feel towards you at the time. By complete accident, this sidesteps entirely the power issue. There's no need for a 20/20 Urza crashing about the place, you could just have Urza Tinkering away at his artifacts and imagine the vast and unstoppable power he possesses but doesn't apply because he's his own man and not your mind slave. They still kept the depowered planeswalkers for the narrative reasons I mentioned, but the idea that this was necessary to represent them on the cards that now exist is false. Just look at Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, whose entire raison d'etre is maintaining his pre-Mending power level.
I feel the reason they are letting planeswalkers be commanders for this set is to test it out. Than if these 5 are not broken allow all planeswalkers. It will allow for a larger variety of decks.
Planeswalkers don't really do that much for me in EDH. Sure a resolved Jace is nice but a resolved decree of annihilation into a blighsteel collossus with haste is much better. Pretty cool so see Teferi as a planeswalker though, give a Jhoira next too.
I actually was thinking about Ugin as one of the commandwalkers, but I feel like they'd want him to make him colorless and they couldn't really do that. He could be the red walker, but I can't think of a clean way to impliment his invisible fire without him only having two walker abilities. (Operative word there is clean) I guess they could tack ", and is colorless." on to the end of the commander clause, but I'm pretty sure that syntax is technically wrong. Wizards plays with syntax sometimes though when they need to.
Why can Teferi be a Commander when Elspeth, Bolas and Jace cannot? Is it because he is an old-walker?
Then why can't Garruk, Liliana and Nicol Bolas not? Because they are portrayed as how they look after the mending and Teferi is not?
Then why is Teferi not way more powerful? Pre mending walkers should be so powerful that they should never be printed.
(Garruk isn't a pre-mending planeswalker.)
Does the storyline canon establish when his spark ignited? Just because he wasn't in the story pre-mending...
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Post-mending walkers (including those that were originally old walkers) age normally. The mending was at least a couple of centuries ago. How did Garruk kept himself young? Sorin is a vampire, Bolas is a dragon, Karn is a golem so they don't age; Liliana made a pact with demons to stay young, among other things. Venser I suspect had access to Jhoira's temporal rift water. Garruk had none of those.
I was kind of hoping for a cycle of four color Commander decks, but we got a Teferi PW card out of it so I can live with it.
Me too...sigh...always next year.
They didn't do two-color Commanders last time since it would be too close to Return to Ravnica. I have a feeling next year might just be enough time past to bring them in.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Have played with PW's as commanders before, its fun but not the greatest imo. Maybe having some cool ones designed more towards being generals will help.
The cool thing about this is that we can see moar classic old walkers as planeswalker cards now WOOT WOOT!
Karn has been a walker since he played his part as a piece in the Legacy and defeated the Father Of Machines, then he lost it when he sealed up that time rift, and regained it when Venser sacrificed himself, so thats where Karn Liberated comes from.
So, Nicol Bolas is the oldest, Sorin appears to be next in line, then Karn seems to fit in next since Liliana is vaguely at "centuries old," so while she is an old walker she is probably the youngest one. The rest are all babies basically
The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
So just stumbled upon MaRo's Tumblr and just want to leave this here for reference (and for people still going to think about Planeswalker Cards = The Planeswalker in full):
ismartman said: I remember reading somewhere that before the Mending, WotC refused to turn planeswalkers into cards because any card based on a planeswalker would have to be so powerful that it would break the game. Since it's been confirmed that the new Teferi planeswalker in Commander 2014 is how he was before the Mending, do you feel his card accurately represents the strength of a pre-Mending planeswalker?
MaRo: The card doesn’t represent everything he’s capable of but rather how much he’s willing to do to help you. : )
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Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
So let me get this right? You can use any planeswalker as a commander? Hello TibAlt
No, read the card...it says at the bottom that he may be used as a commander.
That being said, commander is a casual unsanctioned format, you can use an island as a commander if your playgroup says its ok.
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Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Oh shucks, looks like we can expect a lot of planeswalker commanders in the future. That being said I hope Tibalt is the red commander
They are all pre-Mending walkers. The red one will probably be Jaya Ballard or Jeska or someone like that. It won't be a new character from Lorwyn onwards (not even someone like Liliana or Sorin who were given pre-Mending back stories).
Because he has that text saying that he can be a commander. There is no Vorthos explanation. I'm actually slightly disappointed for the implications this has for Planeswalker-Commander as a format. The beauty of EDH is that you can take any Legend and build a deck, they don't need to be specifically designed for the task (like the similar-for-Vorthos Vanguard did). I dreamt of a day when a similar format would be available to do the same for Planeswalkers, but this is likely to draw away interest from that. It's a very minor quibble, though.
So, back in the day it was asked by many why planeswalkers weren't on cards, with the assumption that they would be creature cards because there was no Planeswalker type yet. As creatures, they would be much too large to print at sensible costs, and arguably they'd be overpowered even at unmanageably high costs because of reanimation and similar tricks to cheat creatures into play. So people kept saying that planeswalkers were too powerful to print, over and over again, until they forgot what the reason was. Meanwhile, the plot of Time Spiral was engineered to rob planeswalkers of their excessive power to remove this impediment and also to make them more relatable and make it easier to tell stories specifically about them. In Future Sight, they got around to actually designing a Planeswalker card, but they didn't finish in time and replaced it with Tarmogoyf. As it happens, though, the way they elected to represent the planeswalker on the card was with "loyalty". This card represents calling for aid from a fellow planeswalker (it's interesting that all this talk of the depowering of walkers overlooks the fact that players, who are explicitly planeswalkers, did not receive any gameplay handicaps in the process) who will cast from their own repertoire of spells as governed by how loyal they feel towards you at the time. By complete accident, this sidesteps entirely the power issue. There's no need for a 20/20 Urza crashing about the place, you could just have Urza Tinkering away at his artifacts and imagine the vast and unstoppable power he possesses but doesn't apply because he's his own man and not your mind slave. They still kept the depowered planeswalkers for the narrative reasons I mentioned, but the idea that this was necessary to represent them on the cards that now exist is false. Just look at Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, whose entire raison d'etre is maintaining his pre-Mending power level.
Man
i think you are forgoting The Chain Veil and Tezzeret the Seeker and Everflowing Chalice
R/W Devotion
Mono-R Devotion
Legacy
Burn
Punishing Jund
I actually was thinking about Ugin as one of the commandwalkers, but I feel like they'd want him to make him colorless and they couldn't really do that. He could be the red walker, but I can't think of a clean way to impliment his invisible fire without him only having two walker abilities. (Operative word there is clean) I guess they could tack ", and is colorless." on to the end of the commander clause, but I'm pretty sure that syntax is technically wrong. Wizards plays with syntax sometimes though when they need to.
Does the storyline canon establish when his spark ignited? Just because he wasn't in the story pre-mending...
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
They didn't do two-color Commanders last time since it would be too close to Return to Ravnica. I have a feeling next year might just be enough time past to bring them in.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Currently playing:
GCasual 8-post
R Casual Land Destruction
UBRWG Legacy Dredge
WGB Modern Melira Pod
RUG EDH
Mishra, Yawgmoth, Phage, Marit-Lage and Jhoira were not planewalkers. You can't just randomly become a planeswalker.
Garruk is most likely the third oldwalker. Creative said there were three before Sorin was introduced.
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
The three were Nicol Bolas, Karn, and Liliana.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Currently playing:
GCasual 8-post
R Casual Land Destruction
UBRWG Legacy Dredge
WGB Modern Melira Pod
RUG EDH
It would also be possible to print both as Legendary creatures, and in Urza's case, have this be a pre-spark-igniting version of him.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
This was before Zendikar, which predates New Phyrexia.
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
The cool thing about this is that we can see moar classic old walkers as planeswalker cards now WOOT WOOT!
Karn has been a walker since he played his part as a piece in the Legacy and defeated the Father Of Machines, then he lost it when he sealed up that time rift, and regained it when Venser sacrificed himself, so thats where Karn Liberated comes from.
So, Nicol Bolas is the oldest, Sorin appears to be next in line, then Karn seems to fit in next since Liliana is vaguely at "centuries old," so while she is an old walker she is probably the youngest one. The rest are all babies basically
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
ismartman said: I remember reading somewhere that before the Mending, WotC refused to turn planeswalkers into cards because any card based on a planeswalker would have to be so powerful that it would break the game. Since it's been confirmed that the new Teferi planeswalker in Commander 2014 is how he was before the Mending, do you feel his card accurately represents the strength of a pre-Mending planeswalker?
MaRo: The card doesn’t represent everything he’s capable of but rather how much he’s willing to do to help you. : )
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
No, read the card...it says at the bottom that he may be used as a commander.
That being said, commander is a casual unsanctioned format, you can use an island as a commander if your playgroup says its ok.
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
They are all pre-Mending walkers. The red one will probably be Jaya Ballard or Jeska or someone like that. It won't be a new character from Lorwyn onwards (not even someone like Liliana or Sorin who were given pre-Mending back stories).
Not a secondary commander, but sure, there could be plenty of planeswalkers in the deck just as cards.