"Development currently believes diamonds are too good for Standard. " ( but he doesn't say that they will not be printed in a standard set)
"I’ve been told by development that Standard could support one Diamond, probably Emerald Diamond as to not undercut green’s mana ramping." ( don't say a 'No we will not print the rest')
"I believe we could print 1 (and maybe 2) of them. As always: not a developer." ( ' you could cahnge to ( and maybe 2 ... , 3 ..., 4 ....) and it would not abrupt change what he said...)
"It’s possible that one of the diamonds is printable. I do not believe the full cycle is printable." ( he says that one could see print but as a personal opnion he thinks the rest should not be printed...)
I don't think people should always use Maro's blog as a font of statements that holds true (always) when we know he does make some spoilers sometimes ( that people just take notice way after) and other tricks that we almost never discover...
If a set had made it through development with the diamonds in it, or development was seriously considering their inclusion, then he would not claim that development had told him they simply couldn't do it. He withholds the truth sometimes, he doesn't state outright falsehoods to do so. The argument that he's not a developer is also not convincing, since he says he specifically asked them. The reason they couldn't print the diamonds in standard is slightly ambiguous, people are saying it's because it steps on green's toes but he only says that as a saving provision for Emerald Diamond so I don't put any stock in that, but the bare fact that they can't isn't. It's probably just Commander 2014, and they make a lot of sense for Commander.
Quit using 3 mana and 5 mana "rocks" as reasoning for why these would be in Standard. There is a huge difference between Turn 2 and Turn 3 acceleration. The argument isn't about letting artifacts have mana ramping, clearly it happens all the time. However, development doesn't want a superfluous amount of fixing/ramping at low CMC slots. Having a Coldsteel Heart or a Sphere of the Suns in the format is fine, but you will never see a format with both.
It's not that it is too powerful, but that it cuts into greens color pie too much. How is green the ramping color if there are more artifacts in the card pool that ramp and do it MORE efficiently than green?
It's not that it is too powerful, but that it cuts into greens color pie too much. How is green the ramping color if there are more artifacts in the card pool that ramp and do it MORE efficiently than green?
The problem is...
sirlrb said: Is Marble Diamond, et al. too powerful by today's standards? Or let me rephrase that, do they step on green's toes to much to see print nowadays?
Development currently believes diamonds are too good for Standard.
That question asked if they were too powerful or if they cut into Green's color pie too much and the response was that they are "too good" for Standard.
I don't really think they cut into green's color pie too much because what green has is far superior. Green offers comparable spells (Elvish Mystic, Noble Hierarch, Birds of Paradise) that come in a turn earlier. Sylvan Caryatid comes in at the same speed, but adds any color and can even block a bit.
Besides, it's more fun when they shake things up a bit instead of getting too stuck in a rut with the same design rules for each set. I think they should reprint the Diamonds AND reprint Armageddon. Let's have some fun.
I don't think MaRo hates fun. It's Development that hates fun, whatever you define it to be.
To be fair, Tarmogoyf and Jace, the Mind Sculptor exist because development though they'd be ok. So when their not hating fun, their outright killing it.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
What 2-mana ramp spells does Green have right now? It has creatures, but as far as 2 mana sorceries that ramp, I can't seem to think of 1 legal for standard.
I think all 5 diamonds would definitely be too much. I would be okay with a new diamond in KTK that was "add one of any color" and came into play tapped and costed 2.
The new art for the diamonds are probably for the yearly Commander product.
Who remembers Standard with 10 Ravnica block Signets legal? They're at least as powerful as the diamond cycle, I'd say more powerful, but they saw just a little play then. And the format wasn't any degenerate at all. Later they were all legal together with the strictly better Coldsteel Heart and we can't say they were format defining. Mana was easy to come by then, without causing degeneracy. Many say it's been the best standard ever (RAV+TSP+CSP).
We could go back to when 7th edition Diamond cycle was legal in standard, they saw an absolute zero play then.
Today's standard is in a fairly sad state but still I don't think the Diamond cycle would change much if it was added in say M15. But they would certainly see more play than ever as nowadays there are much stronger things to ramp to.
The funny thing is, I debated Zach Hill about the "crapping on green's thing" a while ago. When Signets were legal, Green ramp still saw plenty of play. Birds and elves were a thing, as were Wall of Roots, Kodama's Reach, Sakura-Tribe Elder etc. He didn't respond to that point.
Also, let's not forget, Standard was at it's most divers ever when Signets were available. For both Rav-Kami and Rav-Time Spiral you had tons of viable decks.
these are pretty cool rocks, but... why would people think these are too strong for standard? i mean, they etb tapped as mentioned before, maybe if they cost 1 then it could be more obvious to me, but someone enlighten me? I'm not trying to be smart, i just don't see it
The funny thing is, I debated Zach Hill about the "crapping on green's thing" a while ago. When Signets were legal, Green ramp still saw plenty of play. Birds and elves were a thing, as were Wall of Roots, Kodama's Reach, Sakura-Tribe Elder etc. He didn't respond to that point.
Also, let's not forget, Standard was at it's most divers ever when Signets were available. For both Rav-Kami and Rav-Time Spiral you had tons of viable decks.
not only that, despite the signets helping dual colors, the mono colors decks were still viable, such as proclamation and pickles. really miss that era of Ravnica 1.0, when they didn't purposely shut out strategies, but instead embraced all of them.
these are pretty cool rocks, but... why would people think these are too strong for standard? i mean, they etb tapped as mentioned before, maybe if they cost 1 then it could be more obvious to me, but someone enlighten me? I'm not trying to be smart, i just don't see it
Short version is that giving every color access to Rampant Growth isn't great for getting people to actually run green ramp, and two color control/midrange decks having 8+ versions of Rampant Growth in standard is probably too good, as it would let U/W control hit turn three verdict/other four mana wraths very consistently. That's just one example, obviously. Another important thing to keep in mind is that they mess with design space. If these are around, but you want green to be the ramping color, you have to make the green noncreature ramp even better than these, which is obviously difficult. Plus, you have to be careful with any four drops you design for that standard, since there's a high chance people will make a deck that can drop it on turn three consistently.
Edit: These problems mostly relate to doing the whole cycle, as a single one of these won't tilt the scales too far, but all five can cause problems.
Probably for the November commander decks, but if they are in KtK it would be amazing.
Wait, is this a thing? I had just been assuming that since they did a commander set last november they would skip a year again. Has there been an official announcement that I missed?
Yes, Commander is now annual. They announced it at San Diego Comic Con, 2012, stating that a Commander product would take place each fall. They were unprepared for the success of the original Commander decks, so therefore they didn't have time to make new decks for the fall of 2012, hence Commander's Arsenal. 2013 saw the return to full decks. They also stated these are replacing the Premium Deck series. What kind of Commander product we're getting is unknown, but it's reasonable to assume 5 decks again. And, we're getting close to the announcement time, since Commander 2013 was announced July 22, 2013. We'll probably get info at this years SDCC, which starts July 24th.
If Khans is a wedge set then including the diamonds in it would nake sense. They need the colour fixing for limited.
Khans is NOT going to be a wedge set, some idiot speculated this and now all the casuals on the site spout it out in every thread. It makes ZERO sense for Khans to be a wedge set and there is NOTHING pointing to it being so, in fact there are more factors pointing to why it won't be heavily multicolored at all. So stop it.
The mana diamonds would be interesting to go with devotion a very MONO-colored mechanic.
If a set had made it through development with the diamonds in it, or development was seriously considering their inclusion, then he would not claim that development had told him they simply couldn't do it. He withholds the truth sometimes, he doesn't state outright falsehoods to do so. The argument that he's not a developer is also not convincing, since he says he specifically asked them. The reason they couldn't print the diamonds in standard is slightly ambiguous, people are saying it's because it steps on green's toes but he only says that as a saving provision for Emerald Diamond so I don't put any stock in that, but the bare fact that they can't isn't. It's probably just Commander 2014, and they make a lot of sense for Commander.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
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BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
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The problem is...
That question asked if they were too powerful or if they cut into Green's color pie too much and the response was that they are "too good" for Standard.
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Besides, it's more fun when they shake things up a bit instead of getting too stuck in a rut with the same design rules for each set. I think they should reprint the Diamonds AND reprint Armageddon. Let's have some fun.
I wounder what re would answer now after the release of BNG JIN M15...
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
To be fair, Tarmogoyf and Jace, the Mind Sculptor exist because development though they'd be ok. So when their not hating fun, their outright killing it.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I think all 5 diamonds would definitely be too much. I would be okay with a new diamond in KTK that was "add one of any color" and came into play tapped and costed 2.
The new art for the diamonds are probably for the yearly Commander product.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
We could go back to when 7th edition Diamond cycle was legal in standard, they saw an absolute zero play then.
Today's standard is in a fairly sad state but still I don't think the Diamond cycle would change much if it was added in say M15. But they would certainly see more play than ever as nowadays there are much stronger things to ramp to.
On the reserved list.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Also, let's not forget, Standard was at it's most divers ever when Signets were available. For both Rav-Kami and Rav-Time Spiral you had tons of viable decks.
That is all.
enchanting Witchstalker with Raised by Wolves
not only that, despite the signets helping dual colors, the mono colors decks were still viable, such as proclamation and pickles. really miss that era of Ravnica 1.0, when they didn't purposely shut out strategies, but instead embraced all of them.
........................
Edit: These problems mostly relate to doing the whole cycle, as a single one of these won't tilt the scales too far, but all five can cause problems.
Yes, Commander is now annual. They announced it at San Diego Comic Con, 2012, stating that a Commander product would take place each fall. They were unprepared for the success of the original Commander decks, so therefore they didn't have time to make new decks for the fall of 2012, hence Commander's Arsenal. 2013 saw the return to full decks. They also stated these are replacing the Premium Deck series. What kind of Commander product we're getting is unknown, but it's reasonable to assume 5 decks again. And, we're getting close to the announcement time, since Commander 2013 was announced July 22, 2013. We'll probably get info at this years SDCC, which starts July 24th.
To read a recap of that SDCC panel, specifically re: Commander, scroll to the "...And more" section in this link: http://www.gatheringmagic.com/devonerule-071612-sdcc-panel-return-to-ravnica-and-more/
or watch the panel itself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ52J0i1zp0
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
Khans is NOT going to be a wedge set, some idiot speculated this and now all the casuals on the site spout it out in every thread. It makes ZERO sense for Khans to be a wedge set and there is NOTHING pointing to it being so, in fact there are more factors pointing to why it won't be heavily multicolored at all. So stop it.
The mana diamonds would be interesting to go with devotion a very MONO-colored mechanic.
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack