They aren't too strong. Mirage diamonds that enter UNTAPPED were in Scars of Mirrodin until they were cut for the mana myr to have more common creatures that could wield equipment. Of course, it's not like an enter untapped Rampant Growth would be overpowered, either,and in practice would only be a little stronger than Rampant Growth. Untapped Explosive Vegetation at 3 would probably even be safely printable. It's more a design space question like Lightning Bolt. When you're on the cutting edge of what's safe to print, it's hard to make new, exciting designs. I mean really, Manalith at 2 wouldn't break the game or anything, but you can't do Rampant Growths at one or Explosive Vegetations at 2, so now what do you do for green? What do you do for artifact mana after that as well?
They come into play tapped, so they aren't too strong for Standard. However, I get the feeling they are coming in the next commander set.
The problem isn't that they're too strong for standard, the problem is that they step on green's territory. Why splash green to play farseek/rampant growth/sylvan caryatid/any 2 mana ramp card when you can stay in color and just play these mana rocks? It's more of a development issue. Now, maybe in a higher-than-average colorless environment that rewards mono-color, or with enough artifact hate, (hmmm) these might be printable. That said, I'd like to see them come back, but I'm not sure every color should have 2 cost ramp like that. (in standard)
Artifacts have always had some ramp, it's not considered an infringement on Green. The mana Myr are pretty comparable to the diamonds (they ramp at the same speed, slightly more vulnerable to disruption but you get a 1/1 body for that cost) and they were printed without incident in Scars. In fact, they try to put some artifact ramp/fixing in every block nowadays; perhaps the diamonds don't fulfil this category but I don't see any evidence that they can't be printed because they're too green.
Possible for Commander 2014, also possible for Tarkir. Maybe M16, not sure about the timeline there.
There is zero chance these are for standard. Development doesn't like the way they crap on green's mana accelleration by giving it to everyone.
Do you have an actual response to the points I made against this other than 'no, you're wrong'?
Go read MaRo's blog. You're wrong. This has been asked and answered previously.
Maro's blog is several thousand pages long. You are making the argument. You go provide the source. And then explain to us why Meteorite, Astral Cornucopia, and all of the other artifact ramp was still made.
There is zero chance these are for standard. Development doesn't like the way they crap on green's mana accelleration by giving it to everyone.
Do you have an actual response to the points I made against this other than 'no, you're wrong'?
Go read MaRo's blog. You're wrong. This has been asked and answered previously.
Indeed, it has been asked and answered previously and yet for some reason your choice of contribution was simply to restate the thesis without adding any new information. Even when specifically requested, the best you can come up with is "go read MaRo's blog". If, as you imply, he talks about this constantly, it should be trivial for you to actually link to him actually saying this. In this example, he clearly states that is permissible for artifacts to bleed a little ramp. If you have a link that rules out the diamonds from this category, by all means post away.
There is zero chance these are for standard. Development doesn't like the way they crap on green's mana accelleration by giving it to everyone.
Do you have an actual response to the points I made against this other than 'no, you're wrong'?
Go read MaRo's blog. You're wrong. This has been asked and answered previously.
Maro's blog is several thousand pages long. You are making the argument. You go provide the source. And then explain to us why Meteorite, Astral Cornucopia, and all of the other artifact ramp was still made.
I'll do the hard work. here you go, some answers from Maro regarding this cycle:
There is zero chance these are for standard. Development doesn't like the way they crap on green's mana accelleration by giving it to everyone.
Do you have an actual response to the points I made against this other than 'no, you're wrong'?
Go read MaRo's blog. You're wrong. This has been asked and answered previously.
Maro's blog is several thousand pages long. You are making the argument. You go provide the source. And then explain to us why Meteorite, Astral Cornucopia, and all of the other artifact ramp was still made.
I'll do the hard work. here you go, some answers from Maro regarding this cycle:
And how is this too powerful if cards like Sphere of the Suns are fine? Also, I am really tired of Wizards deciding that everything efficient that is not a creature (or apparently Thoughtseize) is too powerful for Standard.
Maro's concerns about the Diamonds didn't apply to Coldsteel Heart, as he was concerned about decks being able to play 8+ of them in Standard.
I think this is key here. A two-colour deck that doesn't run green would have access to 8 ramp-spells. With Keyrunes, such a deck would only have 4.
Nevertheless, I cannot see that this cycle is so absolutely overpowered that they couldn't fit them in with a little bit of work. Perhaps the environment needs a bit of extra ramp..? A set named "Dragons of Tarkir" could be expected to have a lot of dragons, which could mean that not all of them are red. And if they make a set around Dragons, they would likely want those dragons to show up in tournament play, and so players need the tools to be able to cast them.
Yeah, giving all colors access to more than four accelerators at 2 is probably too strong. Then all decks could have four mana available turn 3 by playing 8+ stones, virtually obsoleting the 3-cost slot in decks. A single 2 cost accelerator in standard is probably ok, imo.
Its really a question of how much you want to push aggro decks and hold back control/combo decks, isn't it?
The diamonds are hardly overpowered in a vacuum, quite unimpressive really, its not like you're printing thran dynamos and voltaic keys.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them passed up even if they were printed depending on how khans shakes out
"Development currently believes diamonds are too good for Standard. " ( but he doesn't say that they will not be printed in a standard set)
"I’ve been told by development that Standard could support one Diamond, probably Emerald Diamond as to not undercut green’s mana ramping." ( don't say a 'No we will not print the rest')
"I believe we could print 1 (and maybe 2) of them. As always: not a developer." ( ' you could cahnge to ( and maybe 2 ... , 3 ..., 4 ....) and it would not abrupt change what he said...)
"It’s possible that one of the diamonds is printable. I do not believe the full cycle is printable." ( he says that one could see print but as a personal opnion he thinks the rest should not be printed...)
I don't think people should always use Maro's blog as a font of statements that holds true (always) when we know he does make some spoilers sometimes ( that people just take notice way after) and other tricks that we almost never discover...
Maro's concerns about the Diamonds didn't apply to Coldsteel Heart, as he was concerned about decks being able to play 8+ of them in Standard.
I think this is key here. A two-colour deck that doesn't run green would have access to 8 ramp-spells. With Keyrunes, such a deck would only have 4.
Nevertheless, I cannot see that this cycle is so absolutely overpowered that they couldn't fit them in with a little bit of work. Perhaps the environment needs a bit of extra ramp..? A set named "Dragons of Tarkir" could be expected to have a lot of dragons, which could mean that not all of them are red. And if they make a set around Dragons, they would likely want those dragons to show up in tournament play, and so players need the tools to be able to cast them.
Actually with keyrunes they could have 28 mana "ramp-spells" if they don't care about the creature activation. Since you are more or less pointing out that they only need one of the colours to be a match, with what they play, as you compare them to the diamonds.
Maro's concerns about the Diamonds didn't apply to Coldsteel Heart, as he was concerned about decks being able to play 8+ of them in Standard.
I think this is key here. A two-colour deck that doesn't run green would have access to 8 ramp-spells. With Keyrunes, such a deck would only have 4.
Nevertheless, I cannot see that this cycle is so absolutely overpowered that they couldn't fit them in with a little bit of work. Perhaps the environment needs a bit of extra ramp..? A set named "Dragons of Tarkir" could be expected to have a lot of dragons, which could mean that not all of them are red. And if they make a set around Dragons, they would likely want those dragons to show up in tournament play, and so players need the tools to be able to cast them.
Actually with keyrunes they could have 28 mana "ramp-spells" if they don't care about the creature activation. Since you are more or less pointing out that they only need one of the colours to be a match, with what they play, as you compare them to the diamonds.
Haha. Well, I didn't see that:-)
You are right of course, and this shouldn't have any relevance. I guess it must just be that the keyrunes cost 3
I think they would not be too overpowered as people are thinking ( in standard and modern)
but i would like to see a 5 colors comander deck in november
You listen here, Wizards. You listen good, and you listen hard.
i totally buy that
Artifacts have always had some ramp, it's not considered an infringement on Green. The mana Myr are pretty comparable to the diamonds (they ramp at the same speed, slightly more vulnerable to disruption but you get a 1/1 body for that cost) and they were printed without incident in Scars. In fact, they try to put some artifact ramp/fixing in every block nowadays; perhaps the diamonds don't fulfil this category but I don't see any evidence that they can't be printed because they're too green.
Possible for Commander 2014, also possible for Tarkir. Maybe M16, not sure about the timeline there.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Currently Playing:
Retired
Do you have an actual response to the points I made against this other than 'no, you're wrong'?
Source? Also, Signets, Talismans, Totems, Manalith, Astral Cornucopia, Sphere of the Suns, mana Myr, and Meteorite all disagree with you here.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Go read MaRo's blog. You're wrong. This has been asked and answered previously.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Maro's blog is several thousand pages long. You are making the argument. You go provide the source. And then explain to us why Meteorite, Astral Cornucopia, and all of the other artifact ramp was still made.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Indeed, it has been asked and answered previously and yet for some reason your choice of contribution was simply to restate the thesis without adding any new information. Even when specifically requested, the best you can come up with is "go read MaRo's blog". If, as you imply, he talks about this constantly, it should be trivial for you to actually link to him actually saying this. In this example, he clearly states that is permissible for artifacts to bleed a little ramp. If you have a link that rules out the diamonds from this category, by all means post away.
Nope, still wrong.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
I'll do the hard work. here you go, some answers from Maro regarding this cycle:
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/66851030849/could-you-ask-a-developer-if-the-charcoal-diamond-cycle
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/65080823992/if-a-cycle-of-diamonds-is-too-much-for-standard-how
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/57797954463/hold-on-you-said-the-mirage-diamonds-are-too-good-to
Too powerful. Not a colour pie violation. So we are both wrong.
How does this makes sense if they are fine printing cards like Astral Cornucopia?
And how is this too powerful if cards like Sphere of the Suns are fine? Also, I am really tired of Wizards deciding that everything efficient that is not a creature (or apparently Thoughtseize) is too powerful for Standard.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I don't really like mana rocks for edh TBH, but these are nice arts. I prefer rocks that make more than just a color.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I think this is key here. A two-colour deck that doesn't run green would have access to 8 ramp-spells. With Keyrunes, such a deck would only have 4.
Nevertheless, I cannot see that this cycle is so absolutely overpowered that they couldn't fit them in with a little bit of work. Perhaps the environment needs a bit of extra ramp..? A set named "Dragons of Tarkir" could be expected to have a lot of dragons, which could mean that not all of them are red. And if they make a set around Dragons, they would likely want those dragons to show up in tournament play, and so players need the tools to be able to cast them.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
The diamonds are hardly overpowered in a vacuum, quite unimpressive really, its not like you're printing thran dynamos and voltaic keys.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them passed up even if they were printed depending on how khans shakes out
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/57543040537/is-marble-diamond-et-al-too-powerful-by-todays
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/66851030849/could-you-ask-a-developer-if-the-charcoal-diamond-cycle
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/65080823992/if-a-cycle-of-diamonds-is-too-much-for-standard-how
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/57797954463/hold-on-you-said-the-mirage-diamonds-are-too-good-to
I don't think people should always use Maro's blog as a font of statements that holds true (always) when we know he does make some spoilers sometimes ( that people just take notice way after) and other tricks that we almost never discover...
Actually with keyrunes they could have 28 mana "ramp-spells" if they don't care about the creature activation. Since you are more or less pointing out that they only need one of the colours to be a match, with what they play, as you compare them to the diamonds.
Haha. Well, I didn't see that:-)
You are right of course, and this shouldn't have any relevance. I guess it must just be that the keyrunes cost 3
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)