I believe it was mentioned before (probably by MaRo) that Arkhos was reworked into Theros because they couldn't secure the appropriate trademarks on that name (or some issue of that nature). Interestingly, it seems they had a similar problem with Tarkir but "Khanar" hasn't appeared in Magic before, to my knowledge. So if they did rework Mongseng then they reworked it twice. Might be interesting to hear that story.
As far as Magic canon goes, everything in Planechase is still canonical even if they can never visit in an expert-level expansion. I rather like having Arkhos as a "proto-Theros" with the original, dream oriented setting.
Yeah, I looked up Arkhos and Lethe Lake, it was definitely some of the darker, abstract, cthonian aspects of Greek myth. I agree, I rather dislike just pooling planes from Planechase into others... I suppose though that considering how often I've seen emphasis on exactly HOW vast the multiverse is, that Arkhos, Monseng, Theros, and Tarkir co-existing isn't the most farfetched thing I've ever heard of. I would be SO happy if MaRo's comment not only was a Remark (lol RE MARK) about Tarkir, but ALSO Planechase 2014/2015.
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3WWU, 2GWW, and 4RWW! These were the mana costs chosen to summon the perfect little angel! But Professor Avacyn accidentally added an extra ingredient to the concoction! Chemical x Thus, the Powerpuff Girls were born! Using their ultra super powers, Gisela, Bruna, and Sigarda have dedicated their lives to fighting crime and the forces of evil!
No retcons have explicitly been done. Mongseng still exists, as does Valla, even though Tarkir is a thing. Arkhos still exists and is the location of the River of Tears - and though Kholon could be a Greek name, Glem the Lonebard surely isn't, so it may still be used in a supplemental product as "gloomy memory world" rather than "Ancient Greece world."
Also don't forget that Lethe is used in Magic as a generic term for forgetfulness magic because Cunning Lethemancer is a Grixian.
Regardless: I don't think this announcement has to do with Tarkir - I think we'll hear about a new supplement (Planechase 2015) at the panel that reuses planes.
I doubt its going to be anything about a new Planechase supplement since it would be far to early to announce it. And aside from commander we don't get two multiplayer product in a year. Plus anything they announce soon would come out around November which would be fighting the yearly commander spot.
Valla is Viking/Nordic flavored and Tarkir is Mongolian flavored from what the announcement shows,so while both planes seem to have something in common, warring groups, the flavoring makes them different enough. More than likely where never going to hear much about/see anything from Arkhos or Mongseng since Theros and Tarkir are visited planes.
Like Caranthir said Tarkir may just have ended up being a reworked Monseng.
@ 1337vanguard- How can you hate the reworking of something you know nothing about other than the fact it was named. Your forgetting that Planechase doesn't limit itself to planes that exist in the current on goings of the planeswalkers. A Phyrexian sphere was in the first Planechase despite have been destroyed long ago and Planechase2012 had a Mirrodin plane card despite it no longer existing as such. It even plausible that some of these plane don't actually exist yet.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
I doubt its going to be anything about a new Planechase supplement since it would be far to early to announce it. And aside from commander we don't get two multiplayer product in a year.
We are getting Commander and Conspiracy this year. That's two multiplayer products. The summer slot is still the multiplayer product. Just because the last two products haven't been precons doesn't mean they can't do PLC or ARC or something else in the future.
I doubt its going to be anything about a new Planechase supplement since it would be far to early to announce it. And aside from commander we don't get two multiplayer product in a year.
We are getting Commander and Conspiracy this year. That's two multiplayer products. The summer slot is still the multiplayer product. Just because the last two products haven't been precons doesn't mean they can't do PLC or ARC or something else in the future.
Another Archenemy product is unlikely as the first (and so far only) incarnation was a commercial failure. For a summer multiplayer product to get repeated it needs to be a success, so far all but Archenemy have been such, with the stand out being Commander, which was a proverbial home run, leading to them making it yearly.
Next year will likely be Planechase 3 or a new product.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Which is why I said aside, as in not including, from commander Gojira X. Once it got a yearly spot, in November at that, it stopped being in the possible rotation of 'summer multiplayer product'. Which is what all the others are considered. Stuff like Planechase and Conspiracy would be released in the summer and rotated around because design/development need more time to come up with ideas to make new planes/draft based cards. And trying to do it each year would wear thin quickly.
And ask yourself this. Why hasn't a new Planechase announcement been stated on the mothersite yet? Conspiracy was announced late as a joke about them hiding it from us like conspiracies do the masses. Planechase has no such joke. Thus if he could talk about a planechase set we'd already know it was coming out. At most we could get told planeshace 2015 is coming next year but they would be the most they'd say about it. And SDCC's have been used to hype the large fall set for some time now. Meaning he's going to talk a little about how Tarkir ended up being rework from a planar card from planechase. i.e-Mongseng I going to guess its something similar to Kiora having her last name taken away since it related to a real life peoples but not what the word meant.
Quick Wikipedia check confirms that in fact a former Malaysian politician is named Ang Mong Seng. So more than likely Wizards decided to use a made up name instead of using someone's family name. So there you go.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Which is why I said aside, as in not including, from commander Gojira X. Once it got a yearly spot, in November at that, it stopped being in the possible rotation of 'summer multiplayer product'. Which is what all the others are considered. Stuff like Planechase and Conspiracy would be released in the summer and rotated around because design/development need more time to come up with ideas to make new planes/draft based cards. And trying to do it each year would wear thin quickly.
And ask yourself this. Why hasn't a new Planechase announcement been stated on the mothersite yet? Conspiracy was announced late as a joke about them hiding it from us like conspiracies do the masses. Planechase has no such joke. Thus if he could talk about a planechase set we'd already know it was coming out. At most we could get told planeshace 2015 is coming next year but they would be the most they'd say about it. And SDCC's have been used to hype the large fall set for some time now. Meaning he's going to talk a little about how Tarkir ended up being rework from a planar card from planechase. i.e-Mongseng I going to guess its something similar to Kiora having her last name taken away since it related to a real life peoples but not what the word meant.
Quick Wikipedia check confirms that in fact a former Malaysian politician is named Ang Mong Seng. So more than likely Wizards decided to use a made up name instead of using someone's family name. So there you go.
Next years multiplayer product hasn't been revealed yet because it won't be released until next June. It's almost a year away. >.<
Heck, it's unlikely it will be revealed this year at all. And there is no guarantee that it will be a planechase set.
As for Commander2014, I expect we will get a wee bit of info during SDCC.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I'm guessing next year's summer-release will be Modern Masters 2, and then planechase 2016, but they could be swapped over. However, with this summer being a multi-player-focused set, I figure they'll do something different next summer. And alternating multiplayer- and duel- relevant sets each summer going forward.
I'm guessing next year's summer-release will be Modern Masters 2, and then planechase 2016, but they could be swapped over. However, with this summer being a multi-player-focused set, I figure they'll do something different next summer. And alternating multiplayer- and duel- relevant sets each summer going forward.
[Chester's Gorilla]
It's unlikely they'll do three "draft focused" multiplayer products in a row. Not impossible, just unlikely.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I'm guessing next year's summer-release will be Modern Masters 2, and then planechase 2016, but they could be swapped over. However, with this summer being a multi-player-focused set, I figure they'll do something different next summer. And alternating multiplayer- and duel- relevant sets each summer going forward.
[Chester's Gorilla]
It's unlikely they'll do three "draft focused" multiplayer products in a row. Not impossible, just unlikely.
Modern Masters isn't a multiplayer product. That said, I'm not sure they'd want to do a second Modern Masters so soon after the first. The dates associated with the first Modern Masters were based on an influx of players around the time Zendikar came out (so the cutoff at Alara Reborn was meant to be the sets that those players had never played with). Modern Masters 2 will presumably include reprints from Zendikar, and I think they'll want to put a little more space between them so the "Zendikar wave" still views it as old enough.
I'm guessing next year's summer-release will be Modern Masters 2, and then planechase 2016, but they could be swapped over. However, with this summer being a multi-player-focused set, I figure they'll do something different next summer. And alternating multiplayer- and duel- relevant sets each summer going forward.
[Chester's Gorilla]
It's unlikely they'll do three "draft focused" multiplayer products in a row. Not impossible, just unlikely.
Modern Masters isn't a multiplayer product. That said, I'm not sure they'd want to do a second Modern Masters so soon after the first. The dates associated with the first Modern Masters were based on an influx of players around the time Zendikar came out (so the cutoff at Alara Reborn was meant to be the sets that those players had never played with). Modern Masters 2 will presumably include reprints from Zendikar, and I think they'll want to put a little more space between them so the "Zendikar wave" still views it as old enough.
Actually Modern Masters was designed with draft in mind in addition to reprinting cards for modern that was to powerful for the current standard. They even said as much as the time. >.<
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Draft is by definition a multiplayer format, even though you play the opponents one on one (usually). You still draft the cards with multiple people, and their choices affect yours and yours theirs.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Technically correct, but that doesn't make Modern Masters a multiplayer product.
All normal sets nowadays are made to draft; but we're hardly referring to Theros or M15 as multiplayer-expansions.
It was created specifically for drafting, which is why it contained, among other things, a crapton of thallids, rebels, and other cards to draft around, instead of just cards that where needed for modern.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Technically correct, but that doesn't make Modern Masters a multiplayer product.
All normal sets nowadays are made to draft; but we're hardly referring to Theros or M15 as multiplayer-expansions.
It was created specifically for drafting, which is why it contained, among other things, a crapton of thallids, rebels, and other cards to draft around, instead of just cards that where needed for modern.
All those multiplayer strategies, huh? There's no reason to call it a "multiplayer draft" if you're defining draft to necessarily be multiplayer. Conspiracy and Modern Masters are totally different sets and it's quite disingenuous to dismiss them as two "multiplayer draft" sets on the grounds that their the sole similarity is draft. By that logic they do at minimum four multiplayer draft sets a year anyway.
Which is why I said aside, as in not including, from commander Gojira X. Once it got a yearly spot, in November at that, it stopped being in the possible rotation of 'summer multiplayer product'. Which is what all the others are considered. Stuff like Planechase and Conspiracy would be released in the summer and rotated around because design/development need more time to come up with ideas to make new planes/draft based cards. And trying to do it each year would wear thin quickly.
Another Archenemy product is unlikely as the first (and so far only) incarnation was a commercial failure. For a summer multiplayer product to get repeated it needs to be a success, so far all but Archenemy have been such, with the stand out being Commander, which was a proverbial home run, leading to them making it yearly.
Next year will likely be Planechase 3 or a new product.
I've seen you make this claim before, but where has there ever been an official statement that Archenemy was a "failure." Do you have some sales data or can you provide some official quote? The format got some decent exposure from DOTP and Rosewater has said in his 2010 State of Design that we would see Archenemy again:
I know there is some concern that in our desire to pave new ground that Archenemy and Planechase are going to get lost in the shuffle as we keep creating new ways to play. Rest assured that we are using the first few years to introduce some new formats and then we are, in fact, planning to return to these formats with new designs and new innovations. If you are a fan of Archenemy or Planechase, fear not—you will be seeing them again.
I would say we will get another Archenemy before we get another Planechase because A. it gives them more time to build up planes/locations for the next edition of PCH and B. Archenemy could really benefit from the printing of new cards.
I believe it was mentioned before (probably by MaRo) that Arkhos was reworked into Theros because they couldn't secure the appropriate trademarks on that name (or some issue of that nature). Interestingly, it seems they had a similar problem with Tarkir but "Khanar" hasn't appeared in Magic before, to my knowledge. So if they did rework Mongseng then they reworked it twice. Might be interesting to hear that story.
As far as Magic canon goes, everything in Planechase is still canonical even if they can never visit in an expert-level expansion. I rather like having Arkhos as a "proto-Theros" with the original, dream oriented setting.
Yeah Theros is probably a more exciting plane, it's just that as a big planechase fan I looked forward to one day visiting Arkhos and it seems that probably won't happen, at least for a very long time, since they just focused on a plane that is so similar to Arkhos in theme.
Yeah, I looked up Arkhos and Lethe Lake, it was definitely some of the darker, abstract, cthonian aspects of Greek myth. I agree, I rather dislike just pooling planes from Planechase into others... I suppose though that considering how often I've seen emphasis on exactly HOW vast the multiverse is, that Arkhos, Monseng, Theros, and Tarkir co-existing isn't the most farfetched thing I've ever heard of.
Yeah I hope this is true and we one day get to visit Arkhos and Mongseng.
No retcons have explicitly been done. Mongseng still exists, as does Valla, even though Tarkir is a thing. Arkhos still exists and is the location of the River of Tears - and though Kholon could be a Greek name, Glem the Lonebard surely isn't, so it may still be used in a supplemental product as "gloomy memory world" rather than "Ancient Greece world."
True, but for all practical purposes Theros has replaced Arkhos and Tarkir will most likely replace Mongseng. It's possible we might get to see more of Arkhos and Mongseng but it'll probably be very little since there will be two much more popular planes that are only slightly different, so players will naturally prefer seeing creatures and spells representing the planes they are more familiar with. So what I'm lamenting is the fact that "reworking" planes makes the originals redundant.
@ 1337vanguard- How can you hate the reworking of something you know nothing about other than the fact it was named. Your forgetting that Planechase doesn't limit itself to planes that exist in the current on goings of the planeswalkers. A Phyrexian sphere was in the first Planechase despite have been destroyed long ago and Planechase2012 had a Mirrodin plane card despite it no longer existing as such. It even plausible that some of these plane don't actually exist yet.
Uh, what? We know a lot about the planes of planechase. Many of them are settings in the stories and Wizards has published articles giving us glimpses into these planes. Also see my previous answers above for why I dislike it.
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Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
As far as Magic canon goes, everything in Planechase is still canonical even if they can never visit in an expert-level expansion. I rather like having Arkhos as a "proto-Theros" with the original, dream oriented setting.
Also don't forget that Lethe is used in Magic as a generic term for forgetfulness magic because Cunning Lethemancer is a Grixian.
Regardless: I don't think this announcement has to do with Tarkir - I think we'll hear about a new supplement (Planechase 2015) at the panel that reuses planes.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Valla is Viking/Nordic flavored and Tarkir is Mongolian flavored from what the announcement shows,so while both planes seem to have something in common, warring groups, the flavoring makes them different enough. More than likely where never going to hear much about/see anything from Arkhos or Mongseng since Theros and Tarkir are visited planes.
Like Caranthir said Tarkir may just have ended up being a reworked Monseng.
@ 1337vanguard- How can you hate the reworking of something you know nothing about other than the fact it was named. Your forgetting that Planechase doesn't limit itself to planes that exist in the current on goings of the planeswalkers. A Phyrexian sphere was in the first Planechase despite have been destroyed long ago and Planechase2012 had a Mirrodin plane card despite it no longer existing as such. It even plausible that some of these plane don't actually exist yet.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
We are getting Commander and Conspiracy this year. That's two multiplayer products. The summer slot is still the multiplayer product. Just because the last two products haven't been precons doesn't mean they can't do PLC or ARC or something else in the future.
Another Archenemy product is unlikely as the first (and so far only) incarnation was a commercial failure. For a summer multiplayer product to get repeated it needs to be a success, so far all but Archenemy have been such, with the stand out being Commander, which was a proverbial home run, leading to them making it yearly.
Next year will likely be Planechase 3 or a new product.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
And ask yourself this. Why hasn't a new Planechase announcement been stated on the mothersite yet? Conspiracy was announced late as a joke about them hiding it from us like conspiracies do the masses. Planechase has no such joke. Thus if he could talk about a planechase set we'd already know it was coming out. At most we could get told planeshace 2015 is coming next year but they would be the most they'd say about it. And SDCC's have been used to hype the large fall set for some time now. Meaning he's going to talk a little about how Tarkir ended up being rework from a planar card from planechase. i.e-Mongseng I going to guess its something similar to Kiora having her last name taken away since it related to a real life peoples but not what the word meant.
Quick Wikipedia check confirms that in fact a former Malaysian politician is named Ang Mong Seng. So more than likely Wizards decided to use a made up name instead of using someone's family name. So there you go.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Next years multiplayer product hasn't been revealed yet because it won't be released until next June. It's almost a year away. >.<
Heck, it's unlikely it will be revealed this year at all. And there is no guarantee that it will be a planechase set.
As for Commander2014, I expect we will get a wee bit of info during SDCC.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
[Chester's Gorilla]
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
It's unlikely they'll do three "draft focused" multiplayer products in a row. Not impossible, just unlikely.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I for one would be totally ok with this, and hope that they make it Wedge Colors this time as well.
Modern Masters isn't a multiplayer product. That said, I'm not sure they'd want to do a second Modern Masters so soon after the first. The dates associated with the first Modern Masters were based on an influx of players around the time Zendikar came out (so the cutoff at Alara Reborn was meant to be the sets that those players had never played with). Modern Masters 2 will presumably include reprints from Zendikar, and I think they'll want to put a little more space between them so the "Zendikar wave" still views it as old enough.
Actually Modern Masters was designed with draft in mind in addition to reprinting cards for modern that was to powerful for the current standard. They even said as much as the time. >.<
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Multiplayer draft: no
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Draft is by definition a multiplayer format, even though you play the opponents one on one (usually). You still draft the cards with multiple people, and their choices affect yours and yours theirs.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
All normal sets nowadays are made to draft; but we're hardly referring to Theros or M15 as multiplayer-expansions.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
It was created specifically for drafting, which is why it contained, among other things, a crapton of thallids, rebels, and other cards to draft around, instead of just cards that where needed for modern.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
All those multiplayer strategies, huh? There's no reason to call it a "multiplayer draft" if you're defining draft to necessarily be multiplayer. Conspiracy and Modern Masters are totally different sets and it's quite disingenuous to dismiss them as two "multiplayer draft" sets on the grounds that their the sole similarity is draft. By that logic they do at minimum four multiplayer draft sets a year anyway.
Gotcha. I misread your quote.
I've seen you make this claim before, but where has there ever been an official statement that Archenemy was a "failure." Do you have some sales data or can you provide some official quote? The format got some decent exposure from DOTP and Rosewater has said in his 2010 State of Design that we would see Archenemy again:
I know there is some concern that in our desire to pave new ground that Archenemy and Planechase are going to get lost in the shuffle as we keep creating new ways to play. Rest assured that we are using the first few years to introduce some new formats and then we are, in fact, planning to return to these formats with new designs and new innovations. If you are a fan of Archenemy or Planechase, fear not—you will be seeing them again.
I would say we will get another Archenemy before we get another Planechase because A. it gives them more time to build up planes/locations for the next edition of PCH and B. Archenemy could really benefit from the printing of new cards.
Yeah Theros is probably a more exciting plane, it's just that as a big planechase fan I looked forward to one day visiting Arkhos and it seems that probably won't happen, at least for a very long time, since they just focused on a plane that is so similar to Arkhos in theme.
Yeah I hope this is true and we one day get to visit Arkhos and Mongseng.
True, but for all practical purposes Theros has replaced Arkhos and Tarkir will most likely replace Mongseng. It's possible we might get to see more of Arkhos and Mongseng but it'll probably be very little since there will be two much more popular planes that are only slightly different, so players will naturally prefer seeing creatures and spells representing the planes they are more familiar with. So what I'm lamenting is the fact that "reworking" planes makes the originals redundant.
Uh, what? We know a lot about the planes of planechase. Many of them are settings in the stories and Wizards has published articles giving us glimpses into these planes. Also see my previous answers above for why I dislike it.