I seriously doubt that 99% of the complaints about slivers are from people who were drafting tempest and used to love forcing the slivers deck. Most players are being exposed to this crap for the first time, and probably barely care, thanks MTGS.
Non sliver players: "Yes we get it you don't like the art... move on." I have to deal with a Sliver EDH player that refuses to use the new slivers desipte them making is deck way better.
Now we have that out of the way.
Looks kind of scary, GB silvers, BUG or Junk also seem pretty good options. If the other slivers are this efficient it will work
Why do people get so upset about meaningless, trivial differences in how they're depicted?
Newsflash: It's just a pretty (usually) picture. It has nothing to do with the game itself, unless you have less of a grip on reality than my elementary school-aged kids.
Would you get upset about being handed a chess-set where the knight's horse wasn't depicted?
"OMG, it totally ruins the continuity, how can I play with this horseless knight?!?!? CLEARLY a knight without a horse couldn't jump over the other pieces. This is a betrayal and an insult to me personally!!!"
I think this is just a case of Wizards using sliver art that was commissioned earlier before they realise nearly everyone hates the new sliver design. Most of the M15 slivers revealed earlier have the "old" sliver design.
ya clearly the art has NO affect on how people appreciate the flavor. you flavor freaks are making us sick. even if they make them look like piles of dung, us mere players have no say and our opinions should not discourage the creators' freedom of expression. i'm more disappointed that they didn't go with the ultimate human evolution that kills men: beautiful babe in swimsuit with huge boobs and ass. now that'll get some attention and stop men in their tracks.
Why do people get so upset about meaningless, trivial differences in how they're depicted?
Newsflash: It's just a pretty (usually) picture. It has nothing to do with the game itself, unless you have less of a grip on reality than my elementary school-aged kids.
Would you get upset about being handed a chess-set where the knight's horse wasn't depicted?
"OMG, it totally ruins the continuity, how can I play with this horseless knight?!?!? CLEARLY a knight without a horse couldn't jump over the other pieces. This is a betrayal and an insult to me personally!!!"
I care about the "trivial and meaningless differences" because I spend money on this and because I am a fan of this game. If consumers get complacent, then companies get complacent, it is that simple.
I care about the "trivial and meaningless differences" because I spend money on this and because I am a fan of this game. If consumers get complacent, then companies get complacent, it is that simple.
This fan who also spends money on the game also hopes that they don't get complacent. In terms of gameplay and development. And the general quality of art too, sure. Cool art is cool. Whether they get complacent about discontinuities in the plot line or flavor that appeal to only a tiny percentage of individuals whose obsession with continuity of the fantastic is incomprehensible to me...not so much. But I guess there are all sorts of players.
Art out of the way, Leech sliver turns a horde attack into a nightmare, especially since it bypasses fog effects. And it becomes worse with each leech sliver added. Brilliant design, bg slivers looking vaguely strong, although we should wait for the other 3 before deciding in the hive's direction.
Shandalar Slivers considered, the consistent complaints about how it's ruining magic are becoming even more irksome. I mean, they could even paint over the art if they wanted to, draw a dominarian sliver and make themselves content. Don't dwell on past genocide, pave a way for future generations.
But who am I to control the opinions of another.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Rukarumel, Field Journal
Thanks to mcchief111 for the avvy.
Decks:
Standard: RMinotaur MidrangeB
Modern: GSpider TribalB RArtifractureB
EDH:
MayaelWRG
Reaper KingWUBRG
Niv-MizzetUR
Alesha, Who Smiles At DeathWBR
Shandalar Slivers considered, the consistent complaints about how it's ruining magic are becoming even more irksome.
It's not ruining magic. It's just that it kinda sucks to have obviously-not-slivers posing as slivers. Hell, we're not even demanding that the new slivers be strictly morphological the same species as the old slivers, or we wouldn't have loved the art on Hivelord. But the Predator Style "slivers" are so obviously not slivers that it is incredibly jarring and irritating and takes me out of the game.
Does the effect stack? I know static abilities generally don't but this seems like a case where multiple triggers could go off if more than 1 of these is present.
"7/1/2013 If you control multiple Thorncaster Slivers and a Sliver you control attacks, each ability will trigger separately."
So yeah that answers my question. Wow, that's just evil... not realistic at all to have 4 of each out but that is kinda funny doing 8 per swing before combat damage even goes through.
You say "us mere players" like more than a tiny fraction of players care.
You have your right to rail in public against flavor discontinuities, just as other players have a right to point out the silliness of it all.
i'm totally with you. who cares what these people, who for some reason stare at the useless art instead of the rules box all day, think? the artists and card game creators obviously make these cards for their own enjoyment regardless of how the consumers feel. those who have even a bit of opinion on aesthetics are so shallow. just play the game. you're not supposed to care about the illustrations that take up a whole half of the card. if it bothers you that much, just use your hand to cover it up. and if you build a sliver deck full of these abominations? well, just don't play the new slivers. if you don't talk about them, maybe they'll go away.
I've mentioned multiple times I enjoy the art, I just think the insistence on consistency of the fantasy world is a little weird. And hey, weird is fine, just remember that it's not "how the consumers feel," it's how "a TINY FRACTION of OCD consumers feel."
People are still salty over the new art direction on slivers? Talk about holding a grudge...
Well, I think it's a legit complaint at the very least. Do artists like you complain to Wizards that they can't draw such and such, for example?
Makes me wonder if one-armed, slithery things are truly hard to conceptualize. Or in Creative's perspective, find it so easy to throw aside. Take note that we're people, and have basic attachment to certain things, like images. Removing an iconic characteristic that is sliver's physicality is grounds for grouchy, traditional fogeys to stand up from their wheelchairs. It's akin to Wizards throwing away your feelings.
Suppose McDonald's serve us burgers that look like hotdogs, or the latest iPhone suddenly reverts to a clam phone, should people feel salty for it?
Well, then. Since the ability is stackable, It has uses outside of slivers and could be of use in blackgro.
Black aggro already has spiteful returned, which is awesome (doesn't see like much on paper, but when you play the mono B aggro deck with it it is easily one of the better cards in it) But it is far better than the sliver - 3 damage vs. 2 if unblocked and 2 vs. 1 if blocked at the same CMC, and the returned has the upside that you can bestow it if you draw it later.
People are still salty over the new art direction on slivers? Talk about holding a grudge...
Well, I think it's a legit complaint at the very least. Do artists like you complain to Wizards that they can't draw such and such, for example?
It was a legit complaint a year ago when there was hope that WotC would backtrack on the design. By now, we know at least some of the Slivers will use the new design, so I don't think there's any point in complaining any more, they seem to be here to stay.
Not to mention, if you don't like something, an angry letter to WotC is probably a better idea than posting on third party forums they may or may not read.
And no, I've never heard of anyone complaining about what he has to illustrate for WotC. That's not really how this business works.
By the same logic nobody should have ever voiced their disappointment about the absence of merfolk for 5 years. I will both keep disliking the predator style and keep voicing my opinion. As a result I will keep saying that I do not approve of the predator style.
It was a legit complaint a year ago when there was hope that WotC would backtrack on the design. By now, we know at least some of the Slivers will use the new design, so I don't think there's any point in complaining any more, they seem to be here to stay.
Not to mention, if you don't like something, an angry letter to WotC is probably a better idea than posting on third party forums they may or may not read.
And no, I've never heard of anyone complaining about what he has to illustrate for WotC. That's not really how this business works.
Thanks for the insight, Igor.
I would like to think that artists themselves have limitations on what they can create. That's why we've art directors who designate those that fits best. Although this time I think Creative goofed up. We can't all be perfect. Sometimes all it takes is to put one's hands up and admit it's not resonating with fans. No smoke without fire.
You blew us away with your rendition on Elesh Norn. It has some sort become your signature.
If we ever return to New Phyrexia one day and somebody else butchers it with a totally out of sync look, I'm sure you would have something to say. That's what I'm implying. From the base level of feelings. You're a fan, I am a fan. Fans make magic into what it is today.
PS: I agree a letter would be appropriate, but this is what a forum should be anyways. And I'm pretty sure they read this site in one form or another.
I seriously doubt that 99% of the complaints about slivers are from people who were drafting tempest and used to love forcing the slivers deck. Most players are being exposed to this crap for the first time, and probably barely care, thanks MTGS.
Now we have that out of the way.
Looks kind of scary, GB silvers, BUG or Junk also seem pretty good options. If the other slivers are this efficient it will work
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Newsflash: It's just a pretty (usually) picture. It has nothing to do with the game itself, unless you have less of a grip on reality than my elementary school-aged kids.
Would you get upset about being handed a chess-set where the knight's horse wasn't depicted?
"OMG, it totally ruins the continuity, how can I play with this horseless knight?!?!? CLEARLY a knight without a horse couldn't jump over the other pieces. This is a betrayal and an insult to me personally!!!"
........................
You have your right to rail in public against flavor discontinuities, just as other players have a right to point out the silliness of it all.
I care about the "trivial and meaningless differences" because I spend money on this and because I am a fan of this game. If consumers get complacent, then companies get complacent, it is that simple.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
This fan who also spends money on the game also hopes that they don't get complacent. In terms of gameplay and development. And the general quality of art too, sure. Cool art is cool. Whether they get complacent about discontinuities in the plot line or flavor that appeal to only a tiny percentage of individuals whose obsession with continuity of the fantastic is incomprehensible to me...not so much. But I guess there are all sorts of players.
Art out of the way, Leech sliver turns a horde attack into a nightmare, especially since it bypasses fog effects. And it becomes worse with each leech sliver added. Brilliant design, bg slivers looking vaguely strong, although we should wait for the other 3 before deciding in the hive's direction.
Shandalar Slivers considered, the consistent complaints about how it's ruining magic are becoming even more irksome. I mean, they could even paint over the art if they wanted to, draw a dominarian sliver and make themselves content. Don't dwell on past genocide, pave a way for future generations.
But who am I to control the opinions of another.
Thanks to mcchief111 for the avvy.
Decks:
Standard:
RMinotaur MidrangeB
Modern:
GSpider TribalB
RArtifractureB
EDH:
MayaelWRG
Reaper KingWUBRG
Niv-MizzetUR
Alesha, Who Smiles At DeathWBR
It's not ruining magic. It's just that it kinda sucks to have obviously-not-slivers posing as slivers. Hell, we're not even demanding that the new slivers be strictly morphological the same species as the old slivers, or we wouldn't have loved the art on Hivelord. But the Predator Style "slivers" are so obviously not slivers that it is incredibly jarring and irritating and takes me out of the game.
Also holy crap, Thorncaster Sliver has a new best friend!
EDIT: Speaking of thorny, here's his rulings:
"7/1/2013 If you control multiple Thorncaster Slivers and a Sliver you control attacks, each ability will trigger separately."
So yeah that answers my question. Wow, that's just evil... not realistic at all to have 4 of each out but that is kinda funny doing 8 per swing before combat damage even goes through.
Face - Shows emotion
I feel like they really should have kept the sliver face in for this one.
i'm totally with you. who cares what these people, who for some reason stare at the useless art instead of the rules box all day, think? the artists and card game creators obviously make these cards for their own enjoyment regardless of how the consumers feel. those who have even a bit of opinion on aesthetics are so shallow. just play the game. you're not supposed to care about the illustrations that take up a whole half of the card. if it bothers you that much, just use your hand to cover it up. and if you build a sliver deck full of these abominations? well, just don't play the new slivers. if you don't talk about them, maybe they'll go away.
........................
Well, I think it's a legit complaint at the very least. Do artists like you complain to Wizards that they can't draw such and such, for example?
Makes me wonder if one-armed, slithery things are truly hard to conceptualize. Or in Creative's perspective, find it so easy to throw aside. Take note that we're people, and have basic attachment to certain things, like images. Removing an iconic characteristic that is sliver's physicality is grounds for grouchy, traditional fogeys to stand up from their wheelchairs. It's akin to Wizards throwing away your feelings.
Suppose McDonald's serve us burgers that look like hotdogs, or the latest iPhone suddenly reverts to a clam phone, should people feel salty for it?
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Black aggro already has spiteful returned, which is awesome (doesn't see like much on paper, but when you play the mono B aggro deck with it it is easily one of the better cards in it) But it is far better than the sliver - 3 damage vs. 2 if unblocked and 2 vs. 1 if blocked at the same CMC, and the returned has the upside that you can bestow it if you draw it later.
By the same logic nobody should have ever voiced their disappointment about the absence of merfolk for 5 years. I will both keep disliking the predator style and keep voicing my opinion. As a result I will keep saying that I do not approve of the predator style.
Thanks for the insight, Igor.
I would like to think that artists themselves have limitations on what they can create. That's why we've art directors who designate those that fits best. Although this time I think Creative goofed up. We can't all be perfect. Sometimes all it takes is to put one's hands up and admit it's not resonating with fans. No smoke without fire.
You blew us away with your rendition on Elesh Norn. It has some sort become your signature.
If we ever return to New Phyrexia one day and somebody else butchers it with a totally out of sync look, I'm sure you would have something to say. That's what I'm implying. From the base level of feelings. You're a fan, I am a fan. Fans make magic into what it is today.
PS: I agree a letter would be appropriate, but this is what a forum should be anyways. And I'm pretty sure they read this site in one form or another.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG