I think the Japanese to English translation makes it sound like a terrible Yugioh card. But it looks pretty awesome, especially in conjunction with Ashiok. "Yes, put them on top please..."
I like the card but I liked Aetherize too and it didn't make a serious impact on Standard and was easier to cast. Knowing me I'll try something with this but what little I've learned of Standard makes me think this might not be good enough. Especially if the new artifact sweeper gets popular.
This card is very good and will see standard play. People are dramatically underestimating the putting on top of the library aspect. It's why Azorius Charm is really good, and Unsummon sucks, despite unsummon bouncing anything.
Yeah I guess that's why mono-black devotion has never ever splashed for obzedat or elspeth
Umm... they haven't. Not good ones anyway. They have splashed for Abrupt Decay or Rakdos' Return, but the good "mono-black" decks (top 8ed GPs) have never splashed cards with XX casting costs.
If people must compare it to Aetherize, at least recognise that this is either a cantrip Aetherize, or Aetherize + Divination, or Aetherize + Ancestral, depending upon whether you get 1, 2 or 3 creatures with it. (More than that is magical Christmasland and noone competitive cares about that).
Aetherize wasn't worth 4 mana and a card (although at 3 it might have been competitive). But Aetherize + 2 cards for 5 mana is a lot more attractive.
Apparently you are dead wrong. Yeah you can get into semantics about what constitutes black devotion, but bottomline 90% of B/W midrange decklists are the same as black devotion decklists EXCEPT for the white splash. Yeah grey merchants are cut, but guess what, you have to cut cards to add cards. Opens are large, and invitationals have a much higher density of competent players than any GP. So you're wrong, these are facts, the splash is easy and powerful.
Apparently you are dead wrong. Yeah you can get into semantics about what constitutes black devotion, but bottomline 90% of B/W midrange decklists are the same as black devotion decklists EXCEPT for the white splash. Yeah grey merchants are cut, but guess what, you have to cut cards to add cards. Opens are large, and invitationals have a much higher density of competent players than any GP. So you're wrong, these are facts, the splash is easy and powerful.
I specifically said GP Top 8s because those are the premier events. Congrats to the SCG Open And Invitational for playing in smaller tournaments than GPs without most of the best players in the world playing. Top 8ing an SCG Open means nothing for how good a deck is. It just means you beat a bunch of other mediocre to good players over 8-9 rounds. GPs are larger, have more rounds, and have a much higher concentration of the best players in the world. Showme an XX splash fron there.
I don't understand why this is being compared to Aetherize. One is a tempo play that returns creatures to hand but you lost a card to gain tempo. The other puts it into the library so the opponent loses cards, hopefully more than one, sort of. It's neither removal nor unsummon but it is closer to a wrath.
Not saying it's a good card, just saying it's not even close to Aetherize. It's not even close to Evacuation. And if your deck has a follow-up play, stacking all those creatures at the top means they got no answers.
My primary problem with this card is, I feel it's going to be fairly hard to get more than Griptide out of it. People won't swing into Aether Twister with multiple critters if they know you have it in the deck and 5 open.
Again, keep in mind that you're not playing UW. You'll have blockers, probably several, and it's unlikely single attacks will be a significant threat.
And if more aggressive decks refuse to commit multiple creatures to attack because they're playing around the card... well, isn't that a win in itself? It's not like it's going to be the only instant effect in your hand. Or that you're guaranteed to actually have it every time they play around it.
I just want to be clear on this imaginary board state... So, I have X high-toughness blockers forcing my opponent into attacking with X+1 creatures while I have 5+ untapped lands. 1. That is an incredibly specific situation to make this card good. 2. Aren't I already winning this game? Wouldn't any single-target removal accomplish the same goal while retaining some versatility when I'm not in this specific situation?
I always love the, "if they have to play around it it must be good argument." No. No it's still not good. You're holding a card in your hand that is worthless because they are playing around it. So if you're behind, you're still losing. You still need some other card to answer their board other than the card rotting away useless in your hand. If you're ahead, you don't want a 5 mana reactive spell, you want cheap reactive spells that allow you to spend the rest of your mana on increasing your pressure. This is a bad card for Standard.
Again, in limited, it's a little better because it is a rare so people won't always expect it when you leave 5 mana open (although good players may read the situation properly and still play around it).
If you're a control deck and they're playing around this card you already won, you have to shut down a control player in so many turns before they chain revelations together and attacking with one creature at a time isn't the way to go about it. And no is saying you don't play azorius charm/celestial flare AND aether twister in the same deck. If they just use 1 creature at a time you have answers, if they try to storm the board you have answers, the idea is that your opponent has no effective course of action against you.
And invitationals have waaaay higher player quality than grand prix opens. And last time i checked huey jensen and chris vanmeter both grinded scg opens, so once again you forgot to make a valid point.
There are a variety of scenarios when this card is invaluable, but the situation that it most comes in handy is when I'm trying to defend a Planeswalker -- most likely Kiora. She can completely shut down one of the opponent's creatures, but if I don't have any blockers (or only a Caryatid or Courser), and my opponent is flooding the board with creatures, they are going to swing out at Kiora like mad before she goes nuclear. Aetherize was only okay in this situation because it only bought a turn -- two, tops. This card flat out tucks the creatures away and gives me the time I need to get Kiora's emblem. After that, the opponent is the one on the defensive. This was not possible that often with Cyclonic Rift because it cost 6U to overload, and Kiora is often an early game Walker. 3UU is much more manageable. Time to stabilize is EVERYTHING to control, and this card provides more of it much earlier in the game (when it is more valuable) than just about anything else. It needs to be played alongside sweepers, but in situations where you have a Planeswalker out, the opponent just has to attack, and they'll walk right into this card.
His point was Van Meter (the top SCG grinder) is not on the level of the top GP players, which is a factual statement. The use of Huey was unfortunate because he does go to more SCG Open than other pros. And no, SCG Invis do not have better player quality than the average GP. When was the last time LSV, Wrapter, Stark, Chapin, Ochoa, Jelger, McClain, Dezani, Levy, Juza, Shuhei, Saito play at an Invi? When your best players are consistently Bertocini, Max Tietz, Tom Ross, etc. then you are not as difficult as a GP. Sorry.
This card is no Sphinx's Revelation, but people are still seriously underestimating it.
In what situations are you playing this and getting relative value? If you're ahead on creatures, this is basically a dead card. If you're even, it's equal to or worse than any single-target removal. If you're way behind, it's still unlikely to be a blowout against decent players because of the heavy cost. Don't craft situations when it's good; tell me when it will be played.
This isn't a sweeper. It's not Hallowed Burial, Cataclysm, or any other conditional wrath that's been printed. It has so much going against it. It's conditional on your opponent attacking, conditional on your opponent attacking with a number of attackers that would be beneficial to play Aether Thingy, conditional on your opponent making the choice of top or bottom that would also be beneficial, and conditional on having your opponent blatantly run into your open 3uu. On top of that, it's virtually a dead card against several strategies. This may be the cheapest pseudo-sweeper we get, but... I think there are better, less conditional options. At best, I could see it being a one-of or two-of sideboard card.
Also, past performance is not indicative of future performance. Pointing out how wrong (or right) people were about other cards contributes absolutely nothing to the discussion. People are going to be wrong about cards. It happens all the time. I could point out all of the times people thought a card was great and it sucked. This site is famous for it. The only proof we'll get one way or the other will be when we see Standard results in a month or so.
I hate this design. Big difference between a card like griptide and an effect that hits multiple creatures.
Its power level is brought down by the fact it only hits attackers and your opponent gets to choose where to put the creatures, but neither of those things changes the fact this is another instance of blue getting more of the pie.
I don't think blue alone should handle creatures this efficiently. Blue is supposed to need things from other colors.
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Umm... they haven't. Not good ones anyway. They have splashed for Abrupt Decay or Rakdos' Return, but the good "mono-black" decks (top 8ed GPs) have never splashed cards with XX casting costs.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Aetherize wasn't worth 4 mana and a card (although at 3 it might have been competitive). But Aetherize + 2 cards for 5 mana is a lot more attractive.
1st place at the starcity open, every staple card of black devotion except grey merchant.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=66896
5th place at the standard open, black devotion shell.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=66134
Another 5th place finish at a starcity open.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=68866
ohhh just second place at an invitational.
Apparently you are dead wrong. Yeah you can get into semantics about what constitutes black devotion, but bottomline 90% of B/W midrange decklists are the same as black devotion decklists EXCEPT for the white splash. Yeah grey merchants are cut, but guess what, you have to cut cards to add cards. Opens are large, and invitationals have a much higher density of competent players than any GP. So you're wrong, these are facts, the splash is easy and powerful.
They finally made a blue wrath of god. This is great not only in EDH but Standard worthy definitely
I specifically said GP Top 8s because those are the premier events. Congrats to the SCG Open And Invitational for playing in smaller tournaments than GPs without most of the best players in the world playing. Top 8ing an SCG Open means nothing for how good a deck is. It just means you beat a bunch of other mediocre to good players over 8-9 rounds. GPs are larger, have more rounds, and have a much higher concentration of the best players in the world. Showme an XX splash fron there.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Not saying it's a good card, just saying it's not even close to Aetherize. It's not even close to Evacuation. And if your deck has a follow-up play, stacking all those creatures at the top means they got no answers.
If you insist, throw a Path to Exile or Ghost Quarter in as well.
And average to above average players grind at SCG opens. The top players normally play at GPs to increase/maintain their Pro status.
There's Chris VanMeter, and then there's William Huey Jensen. See the difference?
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I just want to be clear on this imaginary board state... So, I have X high-toughness blockers forcing my opponent into attacking with X+1 creatures while I have 5+ untapped lands. 1. That is an incredibly specific situation to make this card good. 2. Aren't I already winning this game? Wouldn't any single-target removal accomplish the same goal while retaining some versatility when I'm not in this specific situation?
Again, in limited, it's a little better because it is a rare so people won't always expect it when you leave 5 mana open (although good players may read the situation properly and still play around it).
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
And invitationals have waaaay higher player quality than grand prix opens. And last time i checked huey jensen and chris vanmeter both grinded scg opens, so once again you forgot to make a valid point.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
This card is no Sphinx's Revelation, but people are still seriously underestimating it.
In what situations are you playing this and getting relative value? If you're ahead on creatures, this is basically a dead card. If you're even, it's equal to or worse than any single-target removal. If you're way behind, it's still unlikely to be a blowout against decent players because of the heavy cost. Don't craft situations when it's good; tell me when it will be played.
This isn't a sweeper. It's not Hallowed Burial, Cataclysm, or any other conditional wrath that's been printed. It has so much going against it. It's conditional on your opponent attacking, conditional on your opponent attacking with a number of attackers that would be beneficial to play Aether Thingy, conditional on your opponent making the choice of top or bottom that would also be beneficial, and conditional on having your opponent blatantly run into your open 3uu. On top of that, it's virtually a dead card against several strategies. This may be the cheapest pseudo-sweeper we get, but... I think there are better, less conditional options. At best, I could see it being a one-of or two-of sideboard card.
Also, past performance is not indicative of future performance. Pointing out how wrong (or right) people were about other cards contributes absolutely nothing to the discussion. People are going to be wrong about cards. It happens all the time. I could point out all of the times people thought a card was great and it sucked. This site is famous for it. The only proof we'll get one way or the other will be when we see Standard results in a month or so.
Its power level is brought down by the fact it only hits attackers and your opponent gets to choose where to put the creatures, but neither of those things changes the fact this is another instance of blue getting more of the pie.
I don't think blue alone should handle creatures this efficiently. Blue is supposed to need things from other colors.
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