Xen, due respect, let's not handwave the fact that Theros block has almost exclusively junk cards (very few of which will be worth anything after they leave Standard). The same is true of DGM, M14 and arguably GTC. While your statement about fluctuating values is technically true, the poster was clearly referring the quality/value differene we've been seeing overall (post-INN block), not just the typically rotation mambo.
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I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Xen, due respect, let's not handwave the fact that Theros block has almost exclusively junk cards (very few of which will be worth anything after they leave Standard). The same is true of DGM, M14 and arguably GTC. While your statement about fluctuating values is technically true, the poster was clearly referring the quality/value differene we've been seeing overall (post-INN block), not just the typically rotation mambo.
I'm looking at it from the point of view of Standard - the majority of sets only add a few cards of worth to Modern or Legacy, so the way I see it is if you're going to talk about value in regards to Standard sets, you should be doing it based on the set's viability in Standard.
I'm looking at it from the point of view of Standard - the majority of sets only add a few cards of worth to Modern or Legacy, so the way I see it is if you're going to talk about value in regards to Standard sets, you should be doing it based on the set's viability in Standard.
Innistrad block gave Legacy a solid amount of impactful cards:
Delver of freaking secrets
Past in Flames
Snapcaster Mage
Lingering Souls
Liliana of the Veil
Entreat the Angels
Terminus
Huntmaster of the Fells
Gravecrawler
and even some fringe cards like Silent Departure, Laboratory Maniac, Unburial Rites, and I'm sure countless more I'm forgetting.
RTR was just an amazing set overall, which will retain a decent portion of value post-rotation. The fact that Theros will remain legal and still hardly has much going for it outside of what relatively little it has for Standard is pretty bad. How can you even compare the two? Sure, this will change post-rotation, but due to lack of eternal relevance, this means the block is completely crushed by RTR, and even INN block. The point here is that there's no actual reason for card quality in general to drop so low, as high power cards for other formats can be safe in Standard.
Viability in both Standard and non-rotating formats affect the value of the set. Such a large differential in card quality even within the same few Standard sets makes for a clearly defined "more valuable" set most of the time. Theros has little non-rotating relevance whereas sets like RTR do while providing excellent quality in Standard. That's why "low powered" sets are so frustrating; there is simply no excuse for it.
It's about time they gave us a modern staple in a core set that uses the mechanic. It was a huge mistake not putting Noble Hierarch in the core set with exalted.
What can we do with this card though? What decks run this card?
u srs
Yes I don't know too much about Chord of Calling Except that it's a tutor for creatures, but I feel like that kind if mana is hard to reach in standard. I feel like this is strictly for UG. I'm okay with that though because I have a UG deck.
It's great for consistency. Think of it this way... I have 4 Fauna Shaman in my deck, but it's a cornerstone of my strategy and I need to consistently draw it. Putting 2x Chord of Calling my deck serve as copies 5 and 6 of Fauna Shaman, but even more valuable in a way because each copy of Chord of Calling essentially functions as an additional copy of every creature in your library.
This card fills much of the same role as Green Sun's Zenith, and GSZ is so powerful it was banned in modern pretty early on.
Viability in both Standard and non-rotating formats affect the value of the set. Such a large differential in card quality even within the same few Standard sets makes for a clearly defined "more valuable" set most of the time. Theros has little non-rotating relevance whereas sets like RTR do while providing excellent quality in Standard. That's why "low powered" sets are so frustrating; there is simply no excuse for it.
sure there's an excuse. eternal formats are healthy and varied in ways that standard, the bread and butter of competitive formats, never is. the lack of swords of blah and blah, batterskulls, delvers etc... may hurt the long-term value of the set, but helps keep standard healthy.
sure there's an excuse. eternal formats are healthy and varied in ways that standard, the bread and butter of competitive formats, never is. the lack of swords of blah and blah, batterskulls, delvers etc... may hurt the long-term value of the set, but helps keep standard healthy.
If you had thoroughly understood my post, you'd know why I say there's no excuse; playable eternal cards can be balanced within a healthy Standard format.
Deathrite Shaman, Past in Flames, Abrupt Decay, Phyrexian Revoker, Gitaxian Probe (comparatively), Wear//Tear, Springleaf Drum....how big of an impact did these cards have in Standard? I'm not asking for 3/2 Fliers and Lifelinking two Mana 4/4s to enter Standard. Legacy, Vintage, and to a lesser extent Modern are formats based heavily on CONTEXT. Wizards can print countless cards that would be playable in non-rotating formats, but hardly (if at all) affect the Standard environment around them.
The problem is that every time someone wants a good eternal card printed, everyone's mind goes back to the most infamous events....which were so for good reason. I don't want Mind Sculptor in Standard, and it's ridiculous that this is the first thing people's minds tend to jump to. I am asking for PLAYABLE CARDS, not format warping insanity.
I'd honestly rather Blizzard just stick to giving us garbage cards instead of insanely overpowered stuff like this.
Is there currently a context in Standard where this card is "insanely overpowered," and if so, will that remain true?
This exemplifies what I'm trying to say. You just look at the card, say "urrr it's too good since it's played in Modern!" and don't think for half a second about the actual implications it will have in the format. Personally, I neither play nor care for Standard, so I can't say much about it's power level in the format, but you are just blindly tossing words around.
It's about time they gave us a modern staple in a core set that uses the mechanic. It was a huge mistake not putting Noble Hierarch in the core set with exalted.
What can we do with this card though? What decks run this card?
u srs
Yes I don't know too much about Chord of Calling Except that it's a tutor for creatures, but I feel like that kind if mana is hard to reach in standard. I feel like this is strictly for UG. I'm okay with that though because I have a UG deck.
Cord of calling is for token decks mainly. Get 4 or 5 token creatures out and you can rush a nice big creature out on to the battlefield.
sure there's an excuse. eternal formats are healthy and varied in ways that standard, the bread and butter of competitive formats, never is. the lack of swords of blah and blah, batterskulls, delvers etc... may hurt the long-term value of the set, but helps keep standard healthy.
I don't think he was at all asking for any of the cards you mentioned to be reprinted, but was referring to the vast inconsistency in power level of Theros block compared to other recent sets. I don't think anyone can dispute that Innistrad and RTR are substantially superior blocks, both in terms of Standard contribution and with what they brought to other formats. Theros provides almost nothing aside from a Thoughtseize reprint and Mana Confluence, which for all intents and purposes is a City of Brass reprint. Spirit o.t.L. and Brimaz have seen some light play as well, so I suppose we can up the count 4 if we're being generous.
Excluding reprints, The Dark and Fallen Empires has more Legacy playable cards than Theros. Homelands, considered the worst set of all time, has only 1 less viable Legacy card than the entire Theros Block. In other words, Theros Block is bad. Of course, things are always subject to change, and you never know when a new printing could put a formerly unplayable card on the map.
It's not that every set should have overpowered cards, but that there should be some level of consistency when it comes to the power level between sets. Theros, when compared to its recent predecessors, is anything but consistent.
Back to the original topic, It's nice to see Wizards making a conscious effort to drop these Modern staples into the new card pool. I think their selections have been narrowly and intelligently picked. Chord of Calling is an excellent addition to the list.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
I'd honestly rather Blizzard just stick to giving us garbage cards instead of insanely overpowered stuff like this.
What does Blizzard have to do with reprints?
Also I don't really think of Chord of Calling as 'insanely overpowerer'.
I play WoW too, so I mix them up sometimes. I meant Wizards, of course.
It's a strong card, and believe me someone in Standard is going to break it wide open. Admittedly it runs off of mana instead of saccing creatures like Birthing Pod, but the basic principle is the same.
Xen, due respect, let's not handwave the fact that Theros block has almost exclusively junk cards (very few of which will be worth anything after they leave Standard). The same is true of DGM, M14 and arguably GTC. While your statement about fluctuating values is technically true, the poster was clearly referring the quality/value differene we've been seeing overall (post-INN block), not just the typically rotation mambo.
Calling it now: Journey Into Nyx will be the sleeper set that makes a huge impact later on. Eidolon of the Great Revel was only the beginning.
Also, casual players drive prices on cards a TON. Why else is Tamiyo sitting at $12 when she's currently not seriously played in any format? What about Chromatic Lantern? Or the Eldrazi titans? Where they do see play, they are never more than a 1-2 of, yet Emrakul and Kozilek are pushing $50, and Ulamog is over $40 (even though it's been reprinted in a FtV).
Anyhow, back on topic, pretty excited about this reprint. It's always been a cool card, and it'll be nice to have it with new art in the new frame.
Xen, due respect, let's not handwave the fact that Theros block has almost exclusively junk cards (very few of which will be worth anything after they leave Standard). The same is true of DGM, M14 and arguably GTC. While your statement about fluctuating values is technically true, the poster was clearly referring the quality/value differene we've been seeing overall (post-INN block), not just the typically rotation mambo.
Calling it now: Journey Into Nyx will be the sleeper set that makes a huge impact later on. Eidolon of the Great Revel was only the beginning.
Also, casual players drive prices on cards a TON. Why else is Tamiyo sitting at $12 when she's currently not seriously played in any format? What about Chromatic Lantern? Or the Eldrazi titans? Where they do see play, they are never more than a 1-2 of, yet Emrakul and Kozilek are pushing $50, and Ulamog is over $40 (even though it's been reprinted in a FtV).
Emrakul is regularly played as a 4-of in Show and Tell decks in Legacy and the Griselbrand Reanimator decks in Modern. And while the latter is rather fringe, Show and Tell is a very frequently played deck in Legacy. Probably the only reason Emrakul isn't head and shoulders above the other Eldrazi titans in terms of price is that I'm sure a lot of copies were distributed as the prerelease promo.
I can't think of any competitive formats where Ulamog or Kozilek are played as more than 1-ofs, though.
Also, casual players drive prices on cards a TON. Why else is Tamiyo sitting at $12 when she's currently not seriously played in any format? What about Chromatic Lantern? Or the Eldrazi titans? Where they do see play, they are never more than a 1-2 of, yet Emrakul and Kozilek are pushing $50, and Ulamog is over $40 (even though it's been reprinted in a FtV).
I half disagree. Those casuals you point out, half of them are unable to get these casual cards due to the spikes. And these spikes come from serial hoarders who think this or that may rise. It's this optimism of potential gain that makes magic more expensive than it really is.
You're right to question cards like Tamiyo. Because it is cards like them that end up more in binders than in decks.
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
I'm looking at it from the point of view of Standard - the majority of sets only add a few cards of worth to Modern or Legacy, so the way I see it is if you're going to talk about value in regards to Standard sets, you should be doing it based on the set's viability in Standard.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Innistrad block gave Legacy a solid amount of impactful cards:
Delver of freaking secrets
Past in Flames
Snapcaster Mage
Lingering Souls
Liliana of the Veil
Entreat the Angels
Terminus
Huntmaster of the Fells
Gravecrawler
and even some fringe cards like Silent Departure, Laboratory Maniac, Unburial Rites, and I'm sure countless more I'm forgetting.
RTR was just an amazing set overall, which will retain a decent portion of value post-rotation. The fact that Theros will remain legal and still hardly has much going for it outside of what relatively little it has for Standard is pretty bad. How can you even compare the two? Sure, this will change post-rotation, but due to lack of eternal relevance, this means the block is completely crushed by RTR, and even INN block. The point here is that there's no actual reason for card quality in general to drop so low, as high power cards for other formats can be safe in Standard.
Viability in both Standard and non-rotating formats affect the value of the set. Such a large differential in card quality even within the same few Standard sets makes for a clearly defined "more valuable" set most of the time. Theros has little non-rotating relevance whereas sets like RTR do while providing excellent quality in Standard. That's why "low powered" sets are so frustrating; there is simply no excuse for it.
It's great for consistency. Think of it this way... I have 4 Fauna Shaman in my deck, but it's a cornerstone of my strategy and I need to consistently draw it. Putting 2x Chord of Calling my deck serve as copies 5 and 6 of Fauna Shaman, but even more valuable in a way because each copy of Chord of Calling essentially functions as an additional copy of every creature in your library.
This card fills much of the same role as Green Sun's Zenith, and GSZ is so powerful it was banned in modern pretty early on.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
sure there's an excuse. eternal formats are healthy and varied in ways that standard, the bread and butter of competitive formats, never is. the lack of swords of blah and blah, batterskulls, delvers etc... may hurt the long-term value of the set, but helps keep standard healthy.
I especially like how the art is still selesnya
enchanting Witchstalker with Raised by Wolves
If you had thoroughly understood my post, you'd know why I say there's no excuse; playable eternal cards can be balanced within a healthy Standard format.
Deathrite Shaman, Past in Flames, Abrupt Decay, Phyrexian Revoker, Gitaxian Probe (comparatively), Wear//Tear, Springleaf Drum....how big of an impact did these cards have in Standard? I'm not asking for 3/2 Fliers and Lifelinking two Mana 4/4s to enter Standard. Legacy, Vintage, and to a lesser extent Modern are formats based heavily on CONTEXT. Wizards can print countless cards that would be playable in non-rotating formats, but hardly (if at all) affect the Standard environment around them.
The problem is that every time someone wants a good eternal card printed, everyone's mind goes back to the most infamous events....which were so for good reason. I don't want Mind Sculptor in Standard, and it's ridiculous that this is the first thing people's minds tend to jump to. I am asking for PLAYABLE CARDS, not format warping insanity.
Is there currently a context in Standard where this card is "insanely overpowered," and if so, will that remain true?
This exemplifies what I'm trying to say. You just look at the card, say "urrr it's too good since it's played in Modern!" and don't think for half a second about the actual implications it will have in the format. Personally, I neither play nor care for Standard, so I can't say much about it's power level in the format, but you are just blindly tossing words around.
Cord of calling is for token decks mainly. Get 4 or 5 token creatures out and you can rush a nice big creature out on to the battlefield.
I don't think he was at all asking for any of the cards you mentioned to be reprinted, but was referring to the vast inconsistency in power level of Theros block compared to other recent sets. I don't think anyone can dispute that Innistrad and RTR are substantially superior blocks, both in terms of Standard contribution and with what they brought to other formats. Theros provides almost nothing aside from a Thoughtseize reprint and Mana Confluence, which for all intents and purposes is a City of Brass reprint. Spirit o.t.L. and Brimaz have seen some light play as well, so I suppose we can up the count 4 if we're being generous.
Excluding reprints, The Dark and Fallen Empires has more Legacy playable cards than Theros. Homelands, considered the worst set of all time, has only 1 less viable Legacy card than the entire Theros Block. In other words, Theros Block is bad. Of course, things are always subject to change, and you never know when a new printing could put a formerly unplayable card on the map.
It's not that every set should have overpowered cards, but that there should be some level of consistency when it comes to the power level between sets. Theros, when compared to its recent predecessors, is anything but consistent.
Back to the original topic, It's nice to see Wizards making a conscious effort to drop these Modern staples into the new card pool. I think their selections have been narrowly and intelligently picked. Chord of Calling is an excellent addition to the list.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Thanks God Chord of Calling got a new art, the older one was horrible. "This is a green card, let's put a green bird on it dur dur dur"
What does Blizzard have to do with reprints?
Also I don't really think of Chord of Calling as 'insanely overpowerered'.
I play WoW too, so I mix them up sometimes. I meant Wizards, of course.
It's a strong card, and believe me someone in Standard is going to break it wide open. Admittedly it runs off of mana instead of saccing creatures like Birthing Pod, but the basic principle is the same.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Plus, MtGO would probably be awesome.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Calling it now: Journey Into Nyx will be the sleeper set that makes a huge impact later on. Eidolon of the Great Revel was only the beginning.
Also, casual players drive prices on cards a TON. Why else is Tamiyo sitting at $12 when she's currently not seriously played in any format? What about Chromatic Lantern? Or the Eldrazi titans? Where they do see play, they are never more than a 1-2 of, yet Emrakul and Kozilek are pushing $50, and Ulamog is over $40 (even though it's been reprinted in a FtV).
Anyhow, back on topic, pretty excited about this reprint. It's always been a cool card, and it'll be nice to have it with new art in the new frame.
I can't think of any competitive formats where Ulamog or Kozilek are played as more than 1-ofs, though.
I half disagree. Those casuals you point out, half of them are unable to get these casual cards due to the spikes. And these spikes come from serial hoarders who think this or that may rise. It's this optimism of potential gain that makes magic more expensive than it really is.
You're right to question cards like Tamiyo. Because it is cards like them that end up more in binders than in decks.
The one that suffers are the end users.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG