Funny you should say that, when RAV first came out, that was my first thought about convoke.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
iam really excited about this card.
i know it sounds magical christmas land but think about a deck that has this guy beck callgenesis chamber and all of the one and zero drop artifact dudes like signal pest and ornithopter.
dont go breaking my heart.
I think that this would see some place in Legacy MUD.
In modern i can't see a place for it.
I don't now much about standard, but with the new artifact avatar isn't viable a MonoU Artifact deck?
- L
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It is a halfway trap card. If you build your deck to make the most out of the Chief Engineer, then yes its a trap. Yet as a subtle inclusion in already a strong deck on its own, it makes it better. Talking about it from an EDH point of view this is fairly straightforward. However I do question its strength in standard.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Yes, player 2 is ALWAYS playing black. Always. No exceptions. Ever.
DIES TO REMOVAL IS NOT AN ARGUMENT.
Removal aren't exclusive to black, even more since we are talking of Artifact Creature.
Anyways, I was kind of comparing the both side of the medal. One side say "I can cast that if I have that and that and that in my starting hand". The other side say "Yea, well if I have that removal in my hand you can cry."
Ooh, I do like the design of this card. Giving other cards Convoke is a fantastic way to make otherwise expensive spells relatively cheap. There ought to be a place for him somewhere.
No, he is right. If star align and Player A can cast Soul of New Phyrexia on Turn 3 (even 2) then Player B should also have his Lucky 7 Doomblade.
Yes, player 2 is ALWAYS playing black. Always. No exceptions. Ever.
DIES TO REMOVAL IS NOT AN ARGUMENT.
"Dies to removal" is most certainly an argument if the cornerstone of the deck's strategy is vulnerable to removal.
"Dies to removal" doesn't hold much water for things like Tarmogoyf because you expend very little playing him and he isn't instrumental to your overall strategy. We would all prefer to have that hyper-efficient beater in play, but we can afford to lose him. That was just a one-for-one trade with your opponent.
In contrast, a deck whose purpose is to cheat out expensive artifacts via a combination of Chief Engineer and a convoking weenie swarm can't afford to lose either. A single removal spell removing your centerpiece from the equation brings your whole gameplan crashing to a halt.
We don't even need black spot removal to spoil the party. Anything that can deal with either the CE or the weenie swarm crumples the game plan just as well. Both spot removal of any sort (destruction, exile, burn, fight) and boardwipe/pyroclasm style effects are huge issues for this type of gameplan.
These aren't niche situation hate cards like Stony Silence that one might expect to see in a sideboard. These are common effects that many decks have access to mainboard.
Vulnerability to removal is extremely relevant in this situation.
Comparing it to Affinity isn't really accurate though, since Affinity only applied to other Artifacts. This basically turns every artifact you have into a land which is crazy. It also makes the God weapons that much more interesting since they changed the wording on convoke to include mana symbols, and those are colored artifacts. There are shenanigans to be had with this card and I LOVE IT!
In standard you will just have to make sure that you have a way to hard cast cards as well, but with the occainsional nut draw and if you really need it to live then you are in blue.. you can play counterspells. If you don't extend too far you should be able to cast artifacts without having to tap all your lands and leave a counterspell up.
Is it the most powerful thing ever... nope. Is it an extremely interesting build around me card that appeals to deck builders like me that like archoring a deck around a card or an idea. It is a johnny and not a Spike card. I feel it is Timmies they will be trapped by it trying to go.. too big rather than working on value and synergy.
Affinity doesn't need him, most of their stuff is cheap enough anyway. Same for Tempered Steel.
In standard, he makes Soul of New Phyrexia better. Could find a home in Mono-Blue Devotion, enabling a really fast Obelisk of Urd to prevent Master of Waves-less blowouts.
I want to find a combo in Modern with him and Intruder Alarm.
i m thinking esper artifact or something...... maybe blue tron.
if you think about it, the minute he hits play, he allows immediate drop a 1 cc artifact, 2 if you have another creature in play already. remember, convoke only requires you to tap a creature, it doesnt care if that creature has haste or not.
It depends a lot on what artifacts are available, but the potential is definitely there. M15 has not had a Wrath of God equivalent spoiled yet, Drown in Sorrow and similar cards don't kill it. A 1/3 blocks pretty damn well against aggro decks and if control decks don't have the ability to sweep it away alongside whatever you're accelerating into, it will probably be good. It casts the Theros God weapons and Soul of New Phyrexia just fine, if Khans has a bunch of pushed artifacts in it this will be played a lot.
I'm honestly shocked that people have repeatedly mentioned Affinity but only one person briefly mentioned Mono-blue affinity. It doesn't run a lot of creatures but all the sudden that Treasure Mage becomes another source of ramp to get out your Mindslaver or Wurmcoil Engine. It works especially well since they are on curve with each other. If you did something like:
Turn 1: Island, Dakra Mystic
Turn 2: Urza's Factory, Chief Engineer
Turn 3: Urza's Power Plant,Treasure Mage
You would still have enough mana to power out a turn 4 Wurmcoil Engine despite the fact that you don't have Urzatron assembled yet. That's a pretty powerful enabler. I'd expect it to see play in Mono-U nearly guaranteed.
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So, what we can all agree on is: It turns all your 0-drop artifact creatures into Moxwork Creatures.
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I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
No, he is right. If star align and Player A can cast Soul of New Phyrexia on Turn 3 (even 2) then Player B should also have his Lucky 7 Doomblade.
Yes, player 2 is ALWAYS playing black. Always. No exceptions. Ever.
DIES TO REMOVAL IS NOT AN ARGUMENT.
Of course it is. In this context one player built a deck around a single card so one doomblade basically nullifies the whole deck. Even if there are some decks that aren't interactive the majority of decks will have some way to handle creatures and so the argument is that the entire deck is countered by a single card which is often maindecked as a 4 of. I mean the real issue is bad deck building but most of the time "dies to removal" gets brought up is when a creature with a unremarkable body has an ability which is only good in a "build around me" strategy. See crypt ghast for details. Now the advantige of this guy is that unlike cryptghast you can play him on curve and still get use out of his ability even if they have the removal. If he was a 2/2 or 2/3 he would be a sweet aggressive card. As of now he's just a semi-permanent inspired enabler. Now from a non-competetive standpoint... Myr Incubator plus this is going to be hilarious.
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Definetely a trap, though I'm sure I'm gonna lose the first round of my next GP to an affinity player chugging out two ornithopters a mox and Chief Engineer turn 1, followed by Wurmcoil Engine or batterskull turn 2. It will probably be one of the two games he manages to do it all day, and he'd probably lose every other match, but if people can do broken things, a few will decide to do it, even though it's inconsistent as hell.
As a huge artifact player; playing affinity and an esper artifact commander deck, I really like any creature that allows artifacts to come in cheaper. However convoke is a trappp. But.. Giving all artifacts convoke? Not half bad. You'd have to play a very heavy artifact creature deck for it to work. Not very playable in standard.
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Funny you should say that, when RAV first came out, that was my first thought about convoke.
On phasing:
i know it sounds magical christmas land but think about a deck that has this guy beck call genesis chamber and all of the one and zero drop artifact dudes like signal pest and ornithopter.
dont go breaking my heart.
In modern i can't see a place for it.
I don't now much about standard, but with the new artifact avatar isn't viable a MonoU Artifact deck?
- L
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Yes, player 2 is ALWAYS playing black. Always. No exceptions. Ever.
DIES TO REMOVAL IS NOT AN ARGUMENT.
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Removal aren't exclusive to black, even more since we are talking of Artifact Creature.
Anyways, I was kind of comparing the both side of the medal. One side say "I can cast that if I have that and that and that in my starting hand". The other side say "Yea, well if I have that removal in my hand you can cry."
"Dies to removal" is most certainly an argument if the cornerstone of the deck's strategy is vulnerable to removal.
"Dies to removal" doesn't hold much water for things like Tarmogoyf because you expend very little playing him and he isn't instrumental to your overall strategy. We would all prefer to have that hyper-efficient beater in play, but we can afford to lose him. That was just a one-for-one trade with your opponent.
In contrast, a deck whose purpose is to cheat out expensive artifacts via a combination of Chief Engineer and a convoking weenie swarm can't afford to lose either. A single removal spell removing your centerpiece from the equation brings your whole gameplan crashing to a halt.
We don't even need black spot removal to spoil the party. Anything that can deal with either the CE or the weenie swarm crumples the game plan just as well. Both spot removal of any sort (destruction, exile, burn, fight) and boardwipe/pyroclasm style effects are huge issues for this type of gameplan.
These aren't niche situation hate cards like Stony Silence that one might expect to see in a sideboard. These are common effects that many decks have access to mainboard.
Vulnerability to removal is extremely relevant in this situation.
In standard you will just have to make sure that you have a way to hard cast cards as well, but with the occainsional nut draw and if you really need it to live then you are in blue.. you can play counterspells. If you don't extend too far you should be able to cast artifacts without having to tap all your lands and leave a counterspell up.
Is it the most powerful thing ever... nope. Is it an extremely interesting build around me card that appeals to deck builders like me that like archoring a deck around a card or an idea. It is a johnny and not a Spike card. I feel it is Timmies they will be trapped by it trying to go.. too big rather than working on value and synergy.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
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i m thinking esper artifact or something...... maybe blue tron.
if you think about it, the minute he hits play, he allows immediate drop a 1 cc artifact, 2 if you have another creature in play already. remember, convoke only requires you to tap a creature, it doesnt care if that creature has haste or not.
Turn 1: Island, Dakra Mystic
Turn 2: Urza's Factory, Chief Engineer
Turn 3: Urza's Power Plant,Treasure Mage
You would still have enough mana to power out a turn 4 Wurmcoil Engine despite the fact that you don't have Urzatron assembled yet. That's a pretty powerful enabler. I'd expect it to see play in Mono-U nearly guaranteed.
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I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
Of course it is. In this context one player built a deck around a single card so one doomblade basically nullifies the whole deck. Even if there are some decks that aren't interactive the majority of decks will have some way to handle creatures and so the argument is that the entire deck is countered by a single card which is often maindecked as a 4 of. I mean the real issue is bad deck building but most of the time "dies to removal" gets brought up is when a creature with a unremarkable body has an ability which is only good in a "build around me" strategy. See crypt ghast for details. Now the advantige of this guy is that unlike cryptghast you can play him on curve and still get use out of his ability even if they have the removal. If he was a 2/2 or 2/3 he would be a sweet aggressive card. As of now he's just a semi-permanent inspired enabler. Now from a non-competetive standpoint... Myr Incubator plus this is going to be hilarious.
rush into master of etherium and myr superion using etherium sculptor and silver myr
use card draw through thoughtcast and Thirst for Knowledge and maybe machinate
provide some protection through stoic rebuttal and or remand
accelerate mana with Grand Architect and myr galvanizer
finish with myr battlesphere, lodestone myr and sword of fire and ice or just your master of etherium
2 galvanizers+silver myr+architect or 2 galvanizers+2 silver= infinite mana
2 galvanizers + silver= infinite lodestone taps
any suggestions?
I ruled out 0 drop artifacts because they are actually way to wimpy in this deck,
I only have 2-3 chiefs in here becuase he isn't worth duplicating
I built this deck on deckstats,net called it hail to the chief, but I never post here so I couldn't link it, sorry