I just noticed the new Convoke text as well. I don't think there's a functional difference between old and new wording (reducing the cost vs paying for the cost), but I'm wondering why they decided the reminder text ought to be dumbed down with Portal-style redundancy like "Your creatures can help cast this spell".
With that out of the way, I'm excited for Modern to have this as well as Etherium Sculptor/Grand Architect. Standard might have to wait, but who knows, maybe Soul of New Phyrexia is actually really strong if cast earlier than turn 5.
Engineering being my profession, this has automatically become one of my most favorite cards of all time. I just about screamed when I saw this!!!
This guy will go with my Vedalken Engineers to add to one of my theme decks.
Engineers FTW!!!
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COMMANDER DECKS
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Surrak Presents: Snow-where to Run (A Temur Production)
Zurgo - Mardu Warrior Tribal
Gisa and Geralf
Jhoira's Artifacts
I just noticed the new Convoke text as well. I don't think there's a functional difference between old and new wording (reducing the cost vs paying for the cost)
There is one, small difference. It used to be that whenever you cast a spell with convoke you could tap any number of creatures, now you can only tap as many creatures are needed to pay the full cost.
I'm wondering why they decided the reminder text ought to be dumbed down with Portal-style redundancy like "Your creatures can help cast this spell".
Convoke is, by far, the most technically complicated ability they've brought back for a Core Set so far even though its easy to grasp once you get it. They just wanted to make sure an intuitive explanation was right there on the card.
I just noticed the new Convoke text as well. I don't think there's a functional difference between old and new wording (reducing the cost vs paying for the cost)
See above with Myr Superion. Old reminder text says reduces. New text says you tapping the creature to help cast the spell, not reduce the cost. That's actually a fairly big difference.
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"We cannot join. We cannot rest. Our lives, our souls, endure. We have been returned."
Standard RBUGrixis Tutelage BR Devoid Beatdown Modern RAffinity B 8 Rack Legacy 0 Dredge EDH RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
Destructive Revelry, Annul, Fade into Antiquity, Revoke Existence and Unravel the Æther are all legal in standard post rotation. The possibility you'll have an answer when Soul of New Phyrexia hit the battlefield are as high to him being casted turn 3. If star align and Player A do cast Soul on turn 3, then Player 2 do Destroy it the same turn/turn after, then GoodJOb.
I think the best time you could cast it with Convoke is on turn 5. Imagine that scenario: You control 5 lands and 6 creature(including Engineer). You convoke*6 Soul of Phyrexia. You have your land ready to activate the Soul's ability if required. He would protect himself(and all of your blocker) every turn with Prophet of Kruphix on the field.
This card is so.... I.. I... I think I'm in love with DAT FLAVOR!!!
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Casual Decks WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery) RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***) URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you) GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR) GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though) BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz) WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?) WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you) GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie) BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you) URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA) RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb) GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun) WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL) GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz) GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE) GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...) UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos) RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!) WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
According to the new reminder text, you are not reducing its cost to 0.
That's right. I forgot the rules had changed. Hmmm.
Quote from Comp Rules »
702.50. Convoke
702.50a Convoke is a static ability that functions while the spell with convoke is on the stack. “Convoke” means “For each colored mana in this spell’s total cost, you may tap an untapped creature of that color you control rather than pay that mana. For each generic mana in this spell’s total cost, you may tap an untapped creature you control rather than pay that mana.” The convoke ability isn’t an additional or alternative cost and applies only after the total cost of the spell with convoke is determined.
Example: Heartless Summoning says, in part, “Creature spells you cast cost {2} less to cast. You control Heartless Summoning and cast Siege Wurm, a spell with convoke that costs {5}{G}{G}. The total cost to cast Siege Wurm is {3}{G}{G}. After activating mana abilities, you pay that total cost. You may tap up to two green creatures and up to three creatures of any color to pay that cost, and the remainder is paid with mana.
702.50b Multiple instances of convoke on the same spell are redundant.
So, it's not a cost reduction. But you still aren't spending mana to cast it, so it should be fine.
I could see afnity empyting its hand turn 1 : 2 0 mana creature, mox , land . play this guy and try to play a 1 mana artifact then a 2 mana artifact...
But even without it afnity players would play the rest next turn...
I think he is Edh material ( possible for Muzzio :))
702.50a [...] For each generic mana in this spell’s total cost, you may tap an untapped creature you control rather than pay that mana. [...]
I don't get why the Engineer wouldn't let you cast Myr Superion by tapping two creatures. It seems clear from the Comp Rules that rather than pay 2 mana, you can tap two untapped creatures you control. No mana is being generated or spent. Am I reading the CR wrong?
Could have been a rigger. We all would have enjoyed some contraptions.
1000% this.
Also, this is grand architect 5-8 for me in Blue Man Group in modern. Holy smokes i'm excited.
Yeah, I'm super excited too. I hadn't worked on the deck in a while simply because there wasn't a lot new happening with it. But with this coming out, there is a lot more possibilty for some really cool plays, and this helps enable more consistent turn 3 Wurmcoil Engines, so that is now a viable mainboard option. I'm just having difficulty figuring out how artifact heavy to make it. On one hand, we can spam extremely quickly and use Bident to draw us back up; on the other hand we can just sub this guy in for redundancy and still go crazy with Master of Waves. The only sad part being that he is not a wizard.
Myr Superion can be cast only with mana produced by the abilities of one or more creatures on the battlefield (such as Alloy Myr or Priest of Urabrask in this set).
Mana produced by abilities of creature cards not on the battlefield, such as Chancellor of the Tangle or Elvish Spirit Guide, can't be used to cast Myr Superion.
I think the issue here is : "Can you cast Myr Superion without spending mana?"
Because what I read on the card's rule is :"Myr Superion need mana produced by creature to be casted."
But even that is unclear, because you could reduce his mana by 1 then use 1 mana from a produced by a creature to cast him for 1. Also if you would reduce his mana to 0, you couldn't technically cast him since you doesn't spend mana to cast it.
I usually do well with ruling. But that one is kind of tricky for me.
You can cast Myr superion for "free" with engineer ....
as convoke rules says:
702.50a Convoke is a static ability that functions while the spell with convoke is on the stack. "Convoke" means "For each colored mana in this spells total cost, you may tap an untapped creature of that color you control rather than pay that mana. For each generic mana in this spells total cost, you may tap an untapped creature you control rather than pay that mana." The convoke ability isnt an additional or alternative cost and applies only after the total cost of the spell with convoke is determined.
Convoke is a alternative cost : for each mana you can tap a creature rather than pay that mana. Its a alternative cost soo the myr don't see you paying that mana.
601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It cant be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect. #
You are not paying mana to cast the myr but instead alternative costs ...
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"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Island
4x Mox Opal
4x Chief Engineer
4x Esperzoa
4x Etched Champion
4x Myr Superion
3x Ornithopter
1x Myr Battlesphere
4x Myr Enforcer
4x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Thoughtcast
4x See Beyond
4x Cranial Plating
Does that even work with convoke? I mean, they are not actually tapping for mana.
Also, really? Affinity deck that uses this fool but no Mycosynth Golem? For shame.
Standard
RBUGrixis Tutelage
BR Devoid Beatdown
Modern
RAffinity
B 8 Rack
Legacy
0 Dredge
EDH
RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons
BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
This + Ornithopters + Soul of New Phyrexia could very well be a thing.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
D:.. its like they made a card.. just for me.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
With that out of the way, I'm excited for Modern to have this as well as Etherium Sculptor/Grand Architect. Standard might have to wait, but who knows, maybe Soul of New Phyrexia is actually really strong if cast earlier than turn 5.
Person B: Hero's Downfall
Engineering being my profession, this has automatically become one of my most favorite cards of all time. I just about screamed when I saw this!!!
This guy will go with my Vedalken Engineers to add to one of my theme decks.
Engineers FTW!!!
COMMANDER DECKS
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Surrak Presents: Snow-where to Run (A Temur Production)
Zurgo - Mardu Warrior Tribal
Gisa and Geralf
Jhoira's Artifacts
There is one, small difference. It used to be that whenever you cast a spell with convoke you could tap any number of creatures, now you can only tap as many creatures are needed to pay the full cost.
Convoke is, by far, the most technically complicated ability they've brought back for a Core Set so far even though its easy to grasp once you get it. They just wanted to make sure an intuitive explanation was right there on the card.
According to the new reminder text, you are not reducing its cost to 0.
See above with Myr Superion. Old reminder text says reduces. New text says you tapping the creature to help cast the spell, not reduce the cost. That's actually a fairly big difference.
Standard
RBUGrixis Tutelage
BR Devoid Beatdown
Modern
RAffinity
B 8 Rack
Legacy
0 Dredge
EDH
RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons
BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
I think the best time you could cast it with Convoke is on turn 5. Imagine that scenario: You control 5 lands and 6 creature(including Engineer). You convoke*6 Soul of Phyrexia. You have your land ready to activate the Soul's ability if required. He would protect himself(and all of your blocker) every turn with Prophet of Kruphix on the field.
Obviously it doesn't work with Superion. No mana is being produced.
WRBoros Aggro (Glorious knights of badassery)
RBRakdos Bloodthirst (Undercosted waves of fat s***)
URIzzet Talrand/Pyromancer (b/c I hate you)
GRGruul Ramp and Stomp (SO FAT. SO FAST. RAWRRR)
GBGolgari Birthing Pod (b/c you wanted a challenge. I did warn you this BS is banned though)
BWOrzhov Lifegain Aggro (Removal for dayzzz)
WGSelesnya Tribal Golem-splicers/token (meh. Needs more upgrades. Perhaps switching to bant?)
WUAzorius Flicker (b/c I wanna annoy the f*** outta you)
GUSimic Evolve Aggro (Aggro takes a journey to the weird side of the color pie)
BUDimir Control (b/c I wanna peel your skin off and flay you within an inch of life before I kill you)
URWJeskai Ascendency Tokens (MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
RWBMardu Warriors (Butcher is da bomb)
GU Simic Morph (slow as s*** but oh so fun)
WBGAbzan Dredge-animator (PURE EVIL)
GWHexproof Aggro (Deal with it. Lemme guess, you cant?)
EDH Decks
UBRNekusar (Multiplayer MONSTA. 1v1 Klutz)
GRB Prossh (Set up engines. WRECK FACE)
GEzuri (Hey so I heard you liked Elves...)
UTalrand (Counter. Cantrip. Counter. Cantrip. Repeat till opponents die-- possibly of boredom)
Tiny leaders
WUDaxos (basic 3/1 fliers do basic s***. Also Daxos)
RWAnax and Cymede (Heroic weenie beats)
Standard
RRMONO RED AGGRO (RAWWWRRRR!!!!)
WUHeroic Aggro (Easy mode beatstick)
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
But even without it afnity players would play the rest next turn...
I think he is Edh material ( possible for Muzzio :))
I don't get why the Engineer wouldn't let you cast Myr Superion by tapping two creatures. It seems clear from the Comp Rules that rather than pay 2 mana, you can tap two untapped creatures you control. No mana is being generated or spent. Am I reading the CR wrong?
Yeah, I'm super excited too. I hadn't worked on the deck in a while simply because there wasn't a lot new happening with it. But with this coming out, there is a lot more possibilty for some really cool plays, and this helps enable more consistent turn 3 Wurmcoil Engines, so that is now a viable mainboard option. I'm just having difficulty figuring out how artifact heavy to make it. On one hand, we can spam extremely quickly and use Bident to draw us back up; on the other hand we can just sub this guy in for redundancy and still go crazy with Master of Waves. The only sad part being that he is not a wizard.
I think the issue here is : "Can you cast Myr Superion without spending mana?"
Because what I read on the card's rule is :"Myr Superion need mana produced by creature to be casted."
But even that is unclear, because you could reduce his mana by 1 then use 1 mana from a produced by a creature to cast him for 1. Also if you would reduce his mana to 0, you couldn't technically cast him since you doesn't spend mana to cast it.
I usually do well with ruling. But that one is kind of tricky for me.
as convoke rules says:
Convoke is a alternative cost : for each mana you can tap a creature rather than pay that mana. Its a alternative cost soo the myr don't see you paying that mana.
You are not paying mana to cast the myr but instead alternative costs ...