I don't see why people are complaining. This guy is pretty good. +1 might seem lame, but if Khans has any graveyard shenanigans, that +1 will be nice. His -3 is void snare. Not bad. And his ult puts your opponent in top deck mode for the rest of the game. Imagine: Supreme Verdict followed by Jace's ult. Now they have no creatures, no hand, and you're sitting comfortably with a full hand and sweet board position. He may not be the Jace you imagined, but he's not terrible by any means.
Sweet. You Wrathed your opponent, and were able to Ultimate your walker. Wait why did that not immediately end the game? Seems like a win more scenario
Odds are, that probably did win you the game. Continuing on after a board wipe? Seen it. Playing while in top deck mode? Who hasn't done that? But what kind of player continues on after losing all board presence and being reduced to top decks against a control deck? They can now counter anything you'd play to try and climb back while advancing unhindered into winning.
I can absolutely see this as properly replacing JAoT in forthcoming U/W/x control builds. His +1, while no mini Fact or Fiction, produces card advantage while protecting himself- the exact opposite of JAoT. Considering that I almost never +1 JAoT out out of the gate anymore, I welcome a Jace that protects himself better then the last one by having a loyalty of 5, a +1 that 90% of the time you'll prefer to use upon resolution, and -3 that bounces while still leaving him at a sturdy enough loyalty.
His +1 provides no CA at all (other wise it'd actually be okay). You "scry 1.5", but don't draw.
True that I forgot they printed that card good on your But this is repeatable and that will add extra cost to the original card the walker is using. This is how they dont make overpowered walkers. So it should be -2 I am unimpressed with his bounce ability for sure but it is just there as a just in case measure. This card looks like all it is there to do is filter draws and ultimate while being a large fog stick because they can not let you take their hand and then draw 7 cards.
Huh, they made a Jace that's worse than Tibalt, did not expect that. Quite possibly the worst planeswalker ever printed AND the worst mithyc in this set (seriously, please let this be the only trashbin mithyc on m15).
To the people saying that he's good or decent... Take a look at every other version of Jace made before this, and guess what they have in common? They all can be used to gain card advantage, whereas this one takes a card out of your hand and a whole lotta mana for... nothing. Incidentally, card advantage is exactly what blue decks want out of their 4 mana planeswalkers. Sure, his minus ability can be used to gain tempo and take blockers out of the way, which makes him roughly as good as a Silent Departure, which means it's not good at all. Yes, you can also use him for library manipulation, but if you need to dig that badly, even your lands can do that for you, for the small price of coming into play tapped. And finally, he has a big fat butt, getting to 6 loyalty as soon as it comes to play! Unfortunately, his entire stay in standard will be accompanied by Hero's Downfall and Banishing Light, which means that you'll play him, then tick him up for two turns... only for him to eat a removal spell and leave play without having made any impact whatsoever on the board.
So yeah, time to start hoarding him! I'm sure it'll be a 50$ card.
How is this version worse than Tibalt or Chandra Ablaze? While he isn't very good, please stay reasonable with the criticism.
Dude, Tibalt costs 2 mana, he's basically a bear that doesn't attack but can randomly give you card advantage and, if left alone, will win you the game. So, yeah, a pretty bad card, but not THIS terrible. Chandra Ablaze at least DOES something right away, you can use her minus ability to basically draw 3 cards, empty your hand again, and repeat. So, yeah, she needs a very narrow and especific scenario to be effective, but, again, I can see WHY you would play her in a deck. New Jace, though? Is completely outclassed by... most creatures, even.
Tibalt starts with only 2 loyalty (dying to everything), doesn't give you any card advantage with his + ability, is too late with his - ability (by then your opponent will probably have an empty hand), and has an ultimate that is about as good as the one on this Jace. Tibalt is much worse than this Jace.
Chandra Ablaze gives you card disadvantage off of the + ability, is symmetrical with the - ability (your opponent will probably be topdecking by then too), costs 6 mana, and, while having a better ultimate than this Jace, still can only uses it when it is too late to matter. She is much worse than this Jace outside of casual madness decks.
Sure, his minus ability can be used to gain tempo and take blockers out of the way, which makes him roughly as good as a Silent Departure, which means it's not good at all. Yes, you can also use him for library manipulation, but if you need to dig that badly, even your lands can do that for you, for the small price of coming into play tapped. And finally, he has a big fat butt, getting to 6 loyalty as soon as it comes to play! Unfortunately, his entire stay in standard will be accompanied by Hero's Downfall and Banishing Light, which means that you'll play him, then tick him up for two turns... only for him to eat a removal spell and leave play without having made any impact whatsoever on the board.
Just wanted to highlight this (and bolded the word tempo) because I personally believe tempo is an aspect for which he is best suited.
#1: If Silent Departure stayed on the board and threatened to do other things for free after you cast it, it would certainly be playable.
#2: Lands that etb tapped are bad/suboptimal for tempo.
#3: If he eats a removal spell, then your creatures didn't. He's done his job. You already got some kind of use out of him (I suppose in your case, you just play him and not activate any ability?), most likely bouncing your opponent's most expensive/most threatening permanent. Worst case scenario, he's delayed them by a turn or two and saved you some amount of damage. That's probably good enough for a tempo deck.
People are looking at this in terms of run-of-the-mill U/W, Esper, or U/x control all about card advantage, when he is actually more suited to playing a tempo game unless you can make good use of his +1 or are ahead enough to tick him up to his ultimate.
True that I forgot they printed that card good on your But this is repeatable and that will add extra cost to the original card the walker is using. This is how they dont make overpowered walkers. So it should be -2 I am unimpressed with his bounce ability for sure but it is just there as a just in case measure. This card looks like all it is there to do is filter draws and ultimate while being a large fog stick because they can not let you take their hand and then draw 7 cards.
I understand that PW design is very delicate and tricky, but this only needed to be pushed just a little bit more to get out of the "bad" category.
-3 put target permanent on top of opponent's library may have been good enough, and its just a little bit better than bounce. That may have worked as a Plan B for a PW designed around ultimate. If thats not enough, making it -2 definitely would have been.
It's truly amazing how people are pushing the bar to say that this jace might be good. I'm almost thinking about getting some copies to sell in the 'hype' that will follow the release of the core set and net some money from this abomination of a card.
No advantage. No board impact. Win-more ultimate.
WHY is this a good card? WHY?
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It's truly amazing how people are pushing the bar to say that this jace might be good. I'm almost thinking about getting some copies to sell in the 'hype' that will follow the release of the core set and net some money from this abomination of a card.
No advantage. No board impact. Win-more ultimate.
WHY is this a good card? WHY?
Hey, a T4 sorcery speed unsummon is board impact. Just super-mediocre board impact.
I'm always amazed how people can never truly evaluate planewalkers, each time they preview one, all of you think it's bad (see Lili from Innistrad, Jace from RTR.. etc etc) then some months later it's a staple card.
Mark my words, this Jace is amazing and will see play.. i just... i cannot understand how someone would say this is bad ... he cost 4, has a ton of loyalty, fixes your draw and bounces permanents. What more do you want ?... honestly to all the haters, you are bad at evaluating cards.
I agree that most people here are bad at evaluating cards (though as someones who hated the scrylands and fell in love with Steam Augury I can't claim that I don't fall into that camp). However, it is merely decent, not amazing. His +1 is much better with graveyard interaction, but there are no current decks that synergize with it and would run Jace. The -3 would be good if it was a -2. Right now it is 3 loyalty counters for a 1 mana spell. The ultimate is great, but that's how ultimates generally work. He will see Standard play. But I cannot see him at the level that Jace, Architect of Thought is at right now.
It bounces another permanent, not creature, which is a 2 mana spell (Disperse).
This new Jace is acceptable. He is not overly powerful, but also not nearly as bad as anyone who would compare him to Chandra or Tibalt thinks. The first ability gives you some card quality and has the benefit of comboing with reanimation effects of all sorts. The second ability is actually quite strong because it gives you an excellent way to reset a troublesome creature/permanent and can also be used to return one of your creatures to get more mileage out of it, or maybe to reset another Planeswalker that is almost dead (wiping the board with Elspeth, bouncing her, and then recasting her to make 3 tokens seems like a solid sequence of plays he makes possible). The third ability will usually wrap up a game pretty nicely.
I'd be surprised if he did not see play. Breakout hit? Not likely. Hell, Jace AoT wasn't even really popular until Innistrad's rotation, so it might be he'll have his time in the future. What I think a lot of people are underestimating is that 5 starting loyalty. It's funny that supposedly Kiora's low 2 starting loyalty would make her unplayable, but it seems none of the people who attacked her for that are willing to even consider Jace remotely good with his high 5.
This version is getting some hate, but he's still casual playable. And for some, that is what counts.
Every card can be casual playable. That means nothing.
It means everything. There are some cards that even casual players won't play with. This is a game for some, not a way of life. Every mythic printed does not need to be bonkers and prime for competitive standard play. It's like the naysayers that dismiss w/ "dies to removal...." There's a right place and time for most cards.
In casual, if you think a card is fun, you can play with it. One of my friends plays Ruination Wurm because he likes it. That is casual. Any card that is liked by anyone can and will be played in casual.
Don't be so quick to dismiss a card... remember Tarmogoyf was once a trash rare because the general population wrote it off.
The 4 mana planeswalker with a mediocre +1 and a 1 mana spell as a -3 is not going to be the next Goyf.
Goyf was an example... funny how you see things w/ such tunnel vision.
I agree there if they wanted -3 they should have made it griptide. When you can blow something up with veraska for 3 and can only bounce something for 3 on jace there is a problem in my opinion.Definitely wish the - was cheaper. And the +1 drew you a card or that he just came out turn 3 or 2 with the abilities he has
I'm always amazed how people can never truly evaluate planewalkers, each time they preview one, all of you think it's bad (see Lili from Innistrad, Jace from RTR.. etc etc) then some months later it's a staple card.
Mark my words, this Jace is amazing and will see play.. i just... i cannot understand how someone would say this is bad ... he cost 4, has a ton of loyalty, fixes your draw and bounces permanents. What more do you want ?... honestly to all the haters, you are bad at evaluating cards.
I agree that most people here are bad at evaluating cards (though as someones who hated the scrylands and fell in love with Steam Augury I can't claim that I don't fall into that camp). However, it is merely decent, not amazing. His +1 is much better with graveyard interaction, but there are no current decks that synergize with it and would run Jace. The -3 would be good if it was a -2. Right now it is 3 loyalty counters for a 1 mana spell. The ultimate is great, but that's how ultimates generally work. He will see Standard play. But I cannot see him at the level that Jace, Architect of Thought is at right now.
It bounces another permanent, not creature, which is a 2 mana spell (Disperse).
This new Jace is acceptable. He is not overly powerful, but also not nearly as bad as anyone who would compare him to Chandra or Tibalt thinks. The first ability gives you some card quality and has the benefit of comboing with reanimation effects of all sorts. The second ability is actually quite strong because it gives you an excellent way to reset a troublesome creature/permanent and can also be used to return one of your creatures to get more mileage out of it, or maybe to reset another Planeswalker that is almost dead (wiping the board with Elspeth, bouncing her, and then recasting her to make 3 tokens seems like a solid sequence of plays he makes possible). The third ability will usually wrap up a game pretty nicely.
I'd be surprised if he did not see play. Breakout hit? Not likely. Hell, Jace AoT wasn't even really popular until Innistrad's rotation, so it might be he'll have his time in the future. What I think a lot of people are underestimating is that 5 starting loyalty. It's funny that supposedly Kiora's low 2 starting loyalty would make her unplayable, but it seems none of the people who attacked her for that are willing to even consider Jace remotely good with his high 5.
Actually the new card Void Snare is that exact -3 for 1 Mana.
I don't this card is very good, but seeing as I don't play standard I could be wrong. I just can't see it being great.
I'm always amazed how people can never truly evaluate planewalkers, each time they preview one, all of you think it's bad (see Lili from Innistrad, Jace from RTR.. etc etc) then some months later it's a staple card.
Mark my words, this Jace is amazing and will see play.. i just... i cannot understand how someone would say this is bad ... he cost 4, has a ton of loyalty, fixes your draw and bounces permanents. What more do you want ?... honestly to all the haters, you are bad at evaluating cards.
I agree that most people here are bad at evaluating cards (though as someones who hated the scrylands and fell in love with Steam Augury I can't claim that I don't fall into that camp). However, it is merely decent, not amazing. His +1 is much better with graveyard interaction, but there are no current decks that synergize with it and would run Jace. The -3 would be good if it was a -2. Right now it is 3 loyalty counters for a 1 mana spell. The ultimate is great, but that's how ultimates generally work. He will see Standard play. But I cannot see him at the level that Jace, Architect of Thought is at right now.
M15, like all core sets, are design with the future meta in mind, when RTR and M14 leaves the format, this is where M15 is truly shines, i've been doing this since Tempest Standard, please trust me on this one... TRUST ME.. this guy is gooood.
It all depends on whether there is good graveyard interaction in Khans of Tarkir. Since they won't be bringing back a full on graveyard-theme after only 3 years (they wait at least 4 years before redoing a theme), it seems doubtful that this will be as good as Architect of Thought.
There's no "good" card... this is where people don't understand STANDARD... A card is only good depending on the cards its surrounded with. Shock can be a good, or a bad card.. all depending in which format it's printed.
Standard is a LIMITED format, where WOTC give us a fixed amount of cards to brew a deck.
I remember a standard format where 1BB Liliana wasent good at all... but hey Lili is a super good card right ?
Remember Call of the Herd ? It was probably the best standard card back in those days... but it's a super crap card now.
New Jace is NOT Jace AoT. Never will be.. but he'll probably be as good or if not better than AoT.. the future meta will tell. It all depends on the speed of the format, on the popularity of certain decks played.
If the format is filled with Bestowed guy, Yes his bounce ability will probably be bad.. but if the format is filled with slow Courser of Kruphix and Polukranos, bouncing/timewalking your opponent with a new permanent on your side in play is AMAZING.
I'm always amazed how people can never truly evaluate planewalkers, each time they preview one, all of you think it's bad (see Lili from Innistrad, Jace from RTR.. etc etc) then some months later it's a staple card.
Mark my words, this Jace is amazing and will see play.. i just... i cannot understand how someone would say this is bad ... he cost 4, has a ton of loyalty, fixes your draw and bounces permanents. What more do you want ?... honestly to all the haters, you are bad at evaluating cards.
I agree that most people here are bad at evaluating cards (though as someones who hated the scrylands and fell in love with Steam Augury I can't claim that I don't fall into that camp). However, it is merely decent, not amazing. His +1 is much better with graveyard interaction, but there are no current decks that synergize with it and would run Jace. The -3 would be good if it was a -2. Right now it is 3 loyalty counters for a 1 mana spell. The ultimate is great, but that's how ultimates generally work. He will see Standard play. But I cannot see him at the level that Jace, Architect of Thought is at right now.
It bounces another permanent, not creature, which is a 2 mana spell (Disperse).
Disperse is an instant. The proper comparison is Void Snare, which is 1 mana.
This new Jace is acceptable. He is not overly powerful, but also not nearly as bad as anyone who would compare him to Chandra or Tibalt thinks. The first ability gives you some card quality and has the benefit of comboing with reanimation effects of all sorts. The second ability is actually quite strong because it gives you an excellent way to reset a troublesome creature/permanent and can also be used to return one of your creatures to get more mileage out of it, or maybe to reset another Planeswalker that is almost dead (wiping the board with Elspeth, bouncing her, and then recasting her to make 3 tokens seems like a solid sequence of plays he makes possible). The third ability will usually wrap up a game pretty nicely.
I agree. He is playable. Just not at the level of the other Jaces.
I'd be surprised if he did not see play. Breakout hit? Not likely. Hell, Jace AoT wasn't even really popular until Innistrad's rotation, so it might be he'll have his time in the future. What I think a lot of people are underestimating is that 5 starting loyalty. It's funny that supposedly Kiora's low 2 starting loyalty would make her unplayable, but it seems none of the people who attacked her for that are willing to even consider Jace remotely good with his high 5.
To be fair, most of the Kiora comments were because 2 loyalty is just low enough that it dies to Lightning Bolt in Modern even with a +1 ability. As long as a walker with strong abilities survives Bolt it can be considered for Modern, regardless of how many extra loyalty counters it has.
I can absolutely see this as properly replacing JAoT in forthcoming U/W/x control builds. His +1, while no mini Fact or Fiction, produces card advantage while protecting himself- the exact opposite of JAoT. Considering that I almost never +1 JAoT out out of the gate anymore, I welcome a Jace that protects himself better then the last one by having a loyalty of 5, a +1 that 90% of the time you'll prefer to use upon resolution, and -3 that bounces while still leaving him at a sturdy enough loyalty.
His +1 provides no CA at all (other wise it'd actually be okay). You "scry 1.5", but don't draw.
So drawing a card isn't card advantage.
Got it, thanks man.
Please point to me where on the card you draw.
His +1 reads: Look at the top two cards of your library. Put one of them into your graveyard.
You don't put any of them into your hand. In other words, from the moment of play, it is inherently 0.
I'm always amazed how people can never truly evaluate planewalkers, each time they preview one, all of you think it's bad (see Lili from Innistrad, Jace from RTR.. etc etc) then some months later it's a staple card.
Mark my words, this Jace is amazing and will see play.. i just... i cannot understand how someone would say this is bad ... he cost 4, has a ton of loyalty, fixes your draw and bounces permanents. What more do you want ?... honestly to all the haters, you are bad at evaluating cards.
I agree that most people here are bad at evaluating cards (though as someones who hated the scrylands and fell in love with Steam Augury I can't claim that I don't fall into that camp). However, it is merely decent, not amazing. His +1 is much better with graveyard interaction, but there are no current decks that synergize with it and would run Jace. The -3 would be good if it was a -2. Right now it is 3 loyalty counters for a 1 mana spell. The ultimate is great, but that's how ultimates generally work. He will see Standard play. But I cannot see him at the level that Jace, Architect of Thought is at right now.
It bounces another permanent, not creature, which is a 2 mana spell (Disperse).
1 mana, now.
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I'm always amazed how people can never truly evaluate planewalkers, each time they preview one, all of you think it's bad (see Lili from Innistrad, Jace from RTR.. etc etc) then some months later it's a staple card.
Mark my words, this Jace is amazing and will see play.. i just... i cannot understand how someone would say this is bad ... he cost 4, has a ton of loyalty, fixes your draw and bounces permanents. What more do you want ?... honestly to all the haters, you are bad at evaluating cards.
I agree that most people here are bad at evaluating cards (though as someones who hated the scrylands and fell in love with Steam Augury I can't claim that I don't fall into that camp). However, it is merely decent, not amazing. His +1 is much better with graveyard interaction, but there are no current decks that synergize with it and would run Jace. The -3 would be good if it was a -2. Right now it is 3 loyalty counters for a 1 mana spell. The ultimate is great, but that's how ultimates generally work. He will see Standard play. But I cannot see him at the level that Jace, Architect of Thought is at right now.
M15, like all core sets, are design with the future meta in mind, when RTR and M14 leaves the format, this is where M15 is truly shines, i've been doing this since Tempest Standard, please trust me on this one... TRUST ME.. this guy is gooood.
It all depends on whether there is good graveyard interaction in Khans of Tarkir. Since they won't be bringing back a full on graveyard-theme after only 3 years (they wait at least 4 years before redoing a theme), it seems doubtful that this will be as good as Architect of Thought.
There's no "good" card... this is where people don't understand STANDARD... A card is only good depending on the cards its surrounded with. Shock can be a good, or a bad card.. all depending in which format it's printed.
Standard is a LIMITED format, where WOTC give us a fixed amount of cards to brew a deck.
I remember a standard format where 1BB Liliana wasent good at all... but hey Lili is a super good card right ?
Remember Call of the Herd ? It was probably the best standard card back in those days... but it's a super crap card now.
New Jace is NOT Jace AoT. Never will be.. but he'll probably be as good or if not better than AoT.. the future meta will tell. It all depends on the speed of the format, on the popularity of certain decks played.
If the format is filled with Bestowed guy, Yes his bounce ability will probably be bad.. but if the format is filled with slow Courser of Kruphix and Polukranos, bouncing/timewalking your opponent with a new permanent on your side in play is AMAZING.
I suppose that you are right. However, given the presence of Bestow and hasty creatures such as Stormbreath Dragon, I can't see the bounce being as amazing as you think it is.
Remember Architect of Thought? Everyone and their cousin thought it was terrible. Now look at it, it's a Standard staple. It just took a while for it to find it's niche.
I can see this Jace being the same way. There is no chance of it seeing play upon its initial release, not with AoT still around. However, once RTR rotates out, that's a completely different story, as the meta will be completely different. It filters your draws and sets up your graveyard, it can bounce a troublesome permanent, and if it survives until you ultimate it off, it's game over. And getting that ultimate will only take 3 turns, 2 if you have Ajani Steadfast out.
I dunno, I'm not going to write this off as junk. Let's wait and see folks before acting like the sky is falling, lest you all will be willing to eat your words if this does take off like I think it will.
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I can absolutely see this as properly replacing JAoT in forthcoming U/W/x control builds. His +1, while no mini Fact or Fiction, produces card advantage while protecting himself- the exact opposite of JAoT. Considering that I almost never +1 JAoT out out of the gate anymore, I welcome a Jace that protects himself better then the last one by having a loyalty of 5, a +1 that 90% of the time you'll prefer to use upon resolution, and -3 that bounces while still leaving him at a sturdy enough loyalty.
His +1 provides no CA at all (other wise it'd actually be okay). You "scry 1.5", but don't draw.
So drawing a card isn't card advantage.
Got it, thanks man.
Please point to me where on the card you draw.
His +1 reads: Look at the top two cards of your library. Put one of them into your graveyard.
You don't put any of them into your hand. In other words, from the moment of play, it is inherently 0.
I think it might be safe to assume we will not see Himashi in this thread till the embarrassment wears off.
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My bad. Disperse for 4 mana at sorcery speed is nothing to be ashamed of.
Seriously, the only thing good about this card is its loyalty. But I really don't see anyone bothering to attacking it when it is such a mediocre threat and would take two more turns to ultimate. It is just sad what jace has become.
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I don't know, I think people are way off saying this card is bad. We don't know what rotation will look like for control, but I have a hard time ignoring that he comes down and hits ultimate in 3 turns. An ultimate that is back-breaking. As far as 'win-more', I dunno, I'm not so sure. He can't be ignored on the table, but if he's defended, he straight up ends the game, and a lot sooner than you would consider 'win-more', at least for a control deck. I'm going to err on the side of Gideon 2.0 and gladly scoop these up on the cheap while you guys are hating on him, because I do have a feeling you'll be seeing more of him in the next standard than anyone wants to.
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Odds are, that probably did win you the game. Continuing on after a board wipe? Seen it. Playing while in top deck mode? Who hasn't done that? But what kind of player continues on after losing all board presence and being reduced to top decks against a control deck? They can now counter anything you'd play to try and climb back while advancing unhindered into winning.
not drawing a card isn't card advantage
and not drawing a card is what this jace does
Tibalt starts with only 2 loyalty (dying to everything), doesn't give you any card advantage with his + ability, is too late with his - ability (by then your opponent will probably have an empty hand), and has an ultimate that is about as good as the one on this Jace. Tibalt is much worse than this Jace.
Chandra Ablaze gives you card disadvantage off of the + ability, is symmetrical with the - ability (your opponent will probably be topdecking by then too), costs 6 mana, and, while having a better ultimate than this Jace, still can only uses it when it is too late to matter. She is much worse than this Jace outside of casual madness decks.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Just wanted to highlight this (and bolded the word tempo) because I personally believe tempo is an aspect for which he is best suited.
#1: If Silent Departure stayed on the board and threatened to do other things for free after you cast it, it would certainly be playable.
#2: Lands that etb tapped are bad/suboptimal for tempo.
#3: If he eats a removal spell, then your creatures didn't. He's done his job. You already got some kind of use out of him (I suppose in your case, you just play him and not activate any ability?), most likely bouncing your opponent's most expensive/most threatening permanent. Worst case scenario, he's delayed them by a turn or two and saved you some amount of damage. That's probably good enough for a tempo deck.
People are looking at this in terms of run-of-the-mill U/W, Esper, or U/x control all about card advantage, when he is actually more suited to playing a tempo game unless you can make good use of his +1 or are ahead enough to tick him up to his ultimate.
I understand that PW design is very delicate and tricky, but this only needed to be pushed just a little bit more to get out of the "bad" category.
-3 put target permanent on top of opponent's library may have been good enough, and its just a little bit better than bounce. That may have worked as a Plan B for a PW designed around ultimate. If thats not enough, making it -2 definitely would have been.
No advantage. No board impact. Win-more ultimate.
WHY is this a good card? WHY?
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Hey, a T4 sorcery speed unsummon is board impact. Just super-mediocre board impact.
It bounces another permanent, not creature, which is a 2 mana spell (Disperse).
This new Jace is acceptable. He is not overly powerful, but also not nearly as bad as anyone who would compare him to Chandra or Tibalt thinks. The first ability gives you some card quality and has the benefit of comboing with reanimation effects of all sorts. The second ability is actually quite strong because it gives you an excellent way to reset a troublesome creature/permanent and can also be used to return one of your creatures to get more mileage out of it, or maybe to reset another Planeswalker that is almost dead (wiping the board with Elspeth, bouncing her, and then recasting her to make 3 tokens seems like a solid sequence of plays he makes possible). The third ability will usually wrap up a game pretty nicely.
I'd be surprised if he did not see play. Breakout hit? Not likely. Hell, Jace AoT wasn't even really popular until Innistrad's rotation, so it might be he'll have his time in the future. What I think a lot of people are underestimating is that 5 starting loyalty. It's funny that supposedly Kiora's low 2 starting loyalty would make her unplayable, but it seems none of the people who attacked her for that are willing to even consider Jace remotely good with his high 5.
Goyf was an example... funny how you see things w/ such tunnel vision.
"+1: Look at the top two cards of your library. Put one card on top of your library and the other into the graveyard."
Kind of disappointing to not get any card draw from this Jace.
If I open one at the prerelease, I am going to sell it immediately after the event.
Actually the new card Void Snare is that exact -3 for 1 Mana.
I don't this card is very good, but seeing as I don't play standard I could be wrong. I just can't see it being great.
There's no "good" card... this is where people don't understand STANDARD... A card is only good depending on the cards its surrounded with. Shock can be a good, or a bad card.. all depending in which format it's printed.
Standard is a LIMITED format, where WOTC give us a fixed amount of cards to brew a deck.
I remember a standard format where 1BB Liliana wasent good at all... but hey Lili is a super good card right ?
Remember Call of the Herd ? It was probably the best standard card back in those days... but it's a super crap card now.
New Jace is NOT Jace AoT. Never will be.. but he'll probably be as good or if not better than AoT.. the future meta will tell. It all depends on the speed of the format, on the popularity of certain decks played.
If the format is filled with Bestowed guy, Yes his bounce ability will probably be bad.. but if the format is filled with slow Courser of Kruphix and Polukranos, bouncing/timewalking your opponent with a new permanent on your side in play is AMAZING.
Disperse is an instant. The proper comparison is Void Snare, which is 1 mana.
I agree. He is playable. Just not at the level of the other Jaces.
To be fair, most of the Kiora comments were because 2 loyalty is just low enough that it dies to Lightning Bolt in Modern even with a +1 ability. As long as a walker with strong abilities survives Bolt it can be considered for Modern, regardless of how many extra loyalty counters it has.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Please point to me where on the card you draw.
His +1 reads: Look at the top two cards of your library. Put one of them into your graveyard.
You don't put any of them into your hand. In other words, from the moment of play, it is inherently 0.
1 mana, now.
Feel free to tell me yours!
I suppose that you are right. However, given the presence of Bestow and hasty creatures such as Stormbreath Dragon, I can't see the bounce being as amazing as you think it is.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I can see this Jace being the same way. There is no chance of it seeing play upon its initial release, not with AoT still around. However, once RTR rotates out, that's a completely different story, as the meta will be completely different. It filters your draws and sets up your graveyard, it can bounce a troublesome permanent, and if it survives until you ultimate it off, it's game over. And getting that ultimate will only take 3 turns, 2 if you have Ajani Steadfast out.
I dunno, I'm not going to write this off as junk. Let's wait and see folks before acting like the sky is falling, lest you all will be willing to eat your words if this does take off like I think it will.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
I think it might be safe to assume we will not see Himashi in this thread till the embarrassment wears off.
Seriously, the only thing good about this card is its loyalty. But I really don't see anyone bothering to attacking it when it is such a mediocre threat and would take two more turns to ultimate. It is just sad what jace has become.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).