That's gotta sting, eh, Blue players? Now you know how red player's feel. Except you get off easy. Give it six months and you'll have a decent walker again. Red? Red will never get a decent walker.
That's gotta sting, eh, Blue players? Now you know how red player's feel. Except you get off easy. Give it six months and you'll have a decent walker again. Red? Red will never get a decent walker.
Dude, Chandra, Pyromaster is ten times the card this is and VERY playable in mindrangey decks. A shake-up of the metagame is all that's needed to make her show up at the top tables.
I'm always amazed how people can never truly evaluate planewalkers, each time they preview one, all of you think it's bad (see Lili from Innistrad, Jace from RTR.. etc etc) then some months later it's a staple card.
Mark my words, this Jace is amazing and will see play.. i just... i cannot understand how someone would say this is bad ... he cost 4, has a ton of loyalty, fixes your draw and bounces permanents. What more do you want ?... honestly to all the haters, you are bad at evaluating cards.
I agree that most people here are bad at evaluating cards (though as someones who hated the scrylands and fell in love with Steam Augury I can't claim that I don't fall into that camp). However, it is merely decent, not amazing. His +1 is much better with graveyard interaction, but there are no current decks that synergize with it and would run Jace. The -3 would be good if it was a -2. Right now it is 3 loyalty counters for a 1 mana spell. The ultimate is great, but that's how ultimates generally work. He will see Standard play. But I cannot see him at the level that Jace, Architect of Thought is at right now.
I halfway want to bookmark this thread and come back here in a couple months to laugh and point fingers, but I try not to be quite that petty. He may not look too exciting, but I will be incredibly surprised if he sees no play and is as bad as most people here seem to think. Blue planeswalkers named Jace are always played.
You my friend can truly evaluate a card, this Jace is amazing.
Haters, please sell me your Jace, i'll buy them all, thank you.
He doesnt have a 1 mana spell as his -3 Boomerang was 2 mana and did more then this jace -3 and they thought it was to strong to be in standard 3 mana is the cost of this ability.
He doesnt have a 1 mana spell as his -3 Boomerang was 2 mana and did more then this jace -3 and they thought it was to strong to be in standard 3 mana is the cost of this ability.
Void Snare costs 1 mana at the same speed in the same set as this Jace.
Remember a few years ago when this certain idea became general consensus that creatures more than 2-3 mana had to have an immediate impact on the board in order to be playable? Well, that was because of a planeswalker named Jace with a bounce ability.
Just in M15 alone we have void snare for 1 mana if you want it, and into the void for 4 mana.
Look, -3 bounce is not terrible as a PW ability, but it has to be combined with a plus ability that is also designed to impact the board and be awesome.
Jace's + ability is just designed to be "good enough" while you are racing to ultimate, which is a fine design for a PW, but that type of planeswalker needs to have a much stronger fallback option than bounce. Bounce is fine for a planeswalker with an awesome + ability, and that card filter plus ability is fine for a PW with an awesome minus ability, but when they are combined into this Jace, it looks like a really bad card. If you play this, you had better get to ultimate.
I'm always amazed how people can never truly evaluate planewalkers, each time they preview one, all of you think it's bad (see Lili from Innistrad, Jace from RTR.. etc etc) then some months later it's a staple card.
Mark my words, this Jace is amazing and will see play.. i just... i cannot understand how someone would say this is bad ... he cost 4, has a ton of loyalty, fixes your draw and bounces permanents. What more do you want ?... honestly to all the haters, you are bad at evaluating cards.
I agree that most people here are bad at evaluating cards (though as someones who hated the scrylands and fell in love with Steam Augury I can't claim that I don't fall into that camp). However, it is merely decent, not amazing. His +1 is much better with graveyard interaction, but there are no current decks that synergize with it and would run Jace. The -3 would be good if it was a -2. Right now it is 3 loyalty counters for a 1 mana spell. The ultimate is great, but that's how ultimates generally work. He will see Standard play. But I cannot see him at the level that Jace, Architect of Thought is at right now.
M15, like all core sets, are design with the future meta in mind, when RTR and M14 leaves the format, this is where M15 is truly shines, i've been doing this since Tempest Standard, please trust me on this one... TRUST ME.. this guy is gooood.
I'm always amazed how people can never truly evaluate planewalkers, each time they preview one, all of you think it's bad (see Lili from Innistrad, Jace from RTR.. etc etc) then some months later it's a staple card.
Mark my words, this Jace is amazing and will see play.. i just... i cannot understand how someone would say this is bad ... he cost 4, has a ton of loyalty, fixes your draw and bounces permanents. What more do you want ?... honestly to all the haters, you are bad at evaluating cards.
I defended Chandra, Pyromancer and it ended up being a fine sideboard card.
I can absolutely see this as properly replacing JAoT in forthcoming U/W/x control builds. His +1, while no mini Fact or Fiction, produces card advantage while protecting himself- the exact opposite of JAoT. Considering that I almost never +1 JAoT out out of the gate anymore, I welcome a Jace that protects himself better then the last one by having a loyalty of 5, a +1 that 90% of the time you'll prefer to use upon resolution, and -3 that bounces while still leaving him at a sturdy enough loyalty.
His +1 provides no CA at all (other wise it'd actually be okay). You "scry 1.5", but don't draw.
He doesnt have a 1 mana spell as his -3 Boomerang was 2 mana and did more then this jace -3 and they thought it was to strong to be in standard 3 mana is the cost of this ability.
I'm always amazed how people can never truly evaluate planewalkers, each time they preview one, all of you think it's bad (see Lili from Innistrad, Jace from RTR.. etc etc) then some months later it's a staple card.
Mark my words, this Jace is amazing and will see play.. i just... i cannot understand how someone would say this is bad ... he cost 4, has a ton of loyalty, fixes your draw and bounces permanents. What more do you want ?... honestly to all the haters, you are bad at evaluating cards.
I defended Chandra, Pyromancer and it ended up being a fine sideboard card.
This Jace is bad in comparison to that Chandra.
Chandra also sees play as a 1-2 of in Modern Jund, which is a tier 1 deck. It's a good card, just not as great in Standard.
I can absolutely see this as properly replacing JAoT in forthcoming U/W/x control builds. His +1, while no mini Fact or Fiction, produces card advantage while protecting himself- the exact opposite of JAoT. Considering that I almost never +1 JAoT out out of the gate anymore, I welcome a Jace that protects himself better then the last one by having a loyalty of 5, a +1 that 90% of the time you'll prefer to use upon resolution, and -3 that bounces while still leaving him at a sturdy enough loyalty.
His +1 provides no CA at all (other wise it'd actually be okay). You "scry 1.5", but don't draw.
This jace is soooooooo bad, omg. You don't even draw a card off the first ability. What were they thinking? If bouncing one permanent really that strong for 4 mana? Then I have to wait a whole turn to do it again. Then when I do it again I kill him. This is the biggest junk mythic I have ever seen. It has a good ultimate and that's it. The +1 does nothing. The -3 is okay. I know a lot of people hate blue and want it weaker in the format, but come on. A very simple change of draw a card on the +1 would have made this card playable somewhere. It's a .25 junk rare. I hope I don't open one at all. Even ajani helping out jace with loyalty counters will not matter. gI feel like he just sucks. You could make a super grindy slow deck with him ajani, and some other planeswalker for a slow U/W deck. I still think it's bad.
There are bigger Junk mythics (Tibalt and Chandra Ablaze both come to mind and I could easily think of more). There are many bad things about this Jace, but I don't see why everything thinks that he is horrible. He is a 4 mana planeswalker with decent abilities. He won't be great, but he will see Standard play.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I can absolutely see this as properly replacing JAoT in forthcoming U/W/x control builds. His +1, while no mini Fact or Fiction, produces card advantage while protecting himself- the exact opposite of JAoT. Considering that I almost never +1 JAoT out out of the gate anymore, I welcome a Jace that protects himself better then the last one by having a loyalty of 5, a +1 that 90% of the time you'll prefer to use upon resolution, and -3 that bounces while still leaving him at a sturdy enough loyalty.
His +1 provides no CA at all (other wise it'd actually be okay). You "scry 1.5", but don't draw.
So drawing a card isn't card advantage.
Got it, thanks man.
I think you should reread his +1 ability. You don't net a card.
I'm always amazed how people can never truly evaluate planewalkers, each time they preview one, all of you think it's bad (see Lili from Innistrad, Jace from RTR.. etc etc) then some months later it's a staple card.
Mark my words, this Jace is amazing and will see play.. i just... i cannot understand how someone would say this is bad ... he cost 4, has a ton of loyalty, fixes your draw and bounces permanents. What more do you want ?... honestly to all the haters, you are bad at evaluating cards.
I agree that most people here are bad at evaluating cards (though as someones who hated the scrylands and fell in love with Steam Augury I can't claim that I don't fall into that camp). However, it is merely decent, not amazing. His +1 is much better with graveyard interaction, but there are no current decks that synergize with it and would run Jace. The -3 would be good if it was a -2. Right now it is 3 loyalty counters for a 1 mana spell. The ultimate is great, but that's how ultimates generally work. He will see Standard play. But I cannot see him at the level that Jace, Architect of Thought is at right now.
M15, like all core sets, are design with the future meta in mind, when RTR and M14 leaves the format, this is where M15 is truly shines, i've been doing this since Tempest Standard, please trust me on this one... TRUST ME.. this guy is gooood.
It all depends on whether there is good graveyard interaction in Khans of Tarkir. Since they won't be bringing back a full on graveyard-theme after only 3 years (they wait at least 4 years before redoing a theme), it seems doubtful that this will be as good as Architect of Thought.
Huh, they made a Jace that's worse than Tibalt, did not expect that. Quite possibly the worst planeswalker ever printed AND the worst mithyc in this set (seriously, please let this be the only trashbin mithyc on m15).
To the people saying that he's good or decent... Take a look at every other version of Jace made before this, and guess what they have in common? They all can be used to gain card advantage, whereas this one takes a card out of your hand and a whole lotta mana for... nothing. Incidentally, card advantage is exactly what blue decks want out of their 4 mana planeswalkers. Sure, his minus ability can be used to gain tempo and take blockers out of the way, which makes him roughly as good as a Silent Departure, which means it's not good at all. Yes, you can also use him for library manipulation, but if you need to dig that badly, even your lands can do that for you, for the small price of coming into play tapped. And finally, he has a big fat butt, getting to 6 loyalty as soon as it comes to play! Unfortunately, his entire stay in standard will be accompanied by Hero's Downfall and Banishing Light, which means that you'll play him, then tick him up for two turns... only for him to eat a removal spell and leave play without having made any impact whatsoever on the board.
So yeah, time to start hoarding him! I'm sure it'll be a 50$ card.
How is this version worse than Tibalt or Chandra Ablaze? While he isn't very good, please stay reasonable with the criticism.
Dude, Tibalt costs 2 mana, he's basically a bear that doesn't attack but can randomly give you card advantage and, if left alone, will win you the game. So, yeah, a pretty bad card, but not THIS terrible. Chandra Ablaze at least DOES something right away, you can use her minus ability to basically draw 3 cards, empty your hand again, and repeat. So, yeah, she needs a very narrow and especific scenario to be effective, but, again, I can see WHY you would play her in a deck. New Jace, though? Is completely outclassed by... most creatures, even.
I can absolutely see this as properly replacing JAoT in forthcoming U/W/x control builds. His +1, while no mini Fact or Fiction, produces card advantage while protecting himself- the exact opposite of JAoT. Considering that I almost never +1 JAoT out out of the gate anymore, I welcome a Jace that protects himself better then the last one by having a loyalty of 5, a +1 that 90% of the time you'll prefer to use upon resolution, and -3 that bounces while still leaving him at a sturdy enough loyalty.
His +1 provides no CA at all (other wise it'd actually be okay). You "scry 1.5", but don't draw.
I can absolutely see this as properly replacing JAoT in forthcoming U/W/x control builds. His +1, while no mini Fact or Fiction, produces card advantage while protecting himself- the exact opposite of JAoT. Considering that I almost never +1 JAoT out out of the gate anymore, I welcome a Jace that protects himself better then the last one by having a loyalty of 5, a +1 that 90% of the time you'll prefer to use upon resolution, and -3 that bounces while still leaving him at a sturdy enough loyalty.
His +1 provides no CA at all (other wise it'd actually be okay). You "scry 1.5", but don't draw.
So drawing a card isn't card advantage.
Got it, thanks man.
Boy do you look silly right now. Glad you sufficiently made an ass of yourself to lead up to this post.
why you hatin on Koth brah?
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Except that the card you don't toss just goes back to the top of your library, not into your hand. :/
Dude, Chandra, Pyromaster is ten times the card this is and VERY playable in mindrangey decks. A shake-up of the metagame is all that's needed to make her show up at the top tables.
I agree that most people here are bad at evaluating cards (though as someones who hated the scrylands and fell in love with Steam Augury I can't claim that I don't fall into that camp). However, it is merely decent, not amazing. His +1 is much better with graveyard interaction, but there are no current decks that synergize with it and would run Jace. The -3 would be good if it was a -2. Right now it is 3 loyalty counters for a 1 mana spell. The ultimate is great, but that's how ultimates generally work. He will see Standard play. But I cannot see him at the level that Jace, Architect of Thought is at right now.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
You my friend can truly evaluate a card, this Jace is amazing.
Haters, please sell me your Jace, i'll buy them all, thank you.
Void Snare costs 1 mana at the same speed in the same set as this Jace.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Just in M15 alone we have void snare for 1 mana if you want it, and into the void for 4 mana.
Look, -3 bounce is not terrible as a PW ability, but it has to be combined with a plus ability that is also designed to impact the board and be awesome.
Jace's + ability is just designed to be "good enough" while you are racing to ultimate, which is a fine design for a PW, but that type of planeswalker needs to have a much stronger fallback option than bounce. Bounce is fine for a planeswalker with an awesome + ability, and that card filter plus ability is fine for a PW with an awesome minus ability, but when they are combined into this Jace, it looks like a really bad card. If you play this, you had better get to ultimate.
M15, like all core sets, are design with the future meta in mind, when RTR and M14 leaves the format, this is where M15 is truly shines, i've been doing this since Tempest Standard, please trust me on this one... TRUST ME.. this guy is gooood.
I defended Chandra, Pyromancer and it ended up being a fine sideboard card.
This Jace is bad in comparison to that Chandra.
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
His +1 provides no CA at all (other wise it'd actually be okay). You "scry 1.5", but don't draw.
I wish he could bounce lands like Boomerang :/
Chandra also sees play as a 1-2 of in Modern Jund, which is a tier 1 deck. It's a good card, just not as great in Standard.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
So drawing a card isn't card advantage.
Got it, thanks man.
There are bigger Junk mythics (Tibalt and Chandra Ablaze both come to mind and I could easily think of more). There are many bad things about this Jace, but I don't see why everything thinks that he is horrible. He is a 4 mana planeswalker with decent abilities. He won't be great, but he will see Standard play.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It could see play, but I'm not really sure who they made this for.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I think you should reread his +1 ability. You don't net a card.
It all depends on whether there is good graveyard interaction in Khans of Tarkir. Since they won't be bringing back a full on graveyard-theme after only 3 years (they wait at least 4 years before redoing a theme), it seems doubtful that this will be as good as Architect of Thought.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Dude, Tibalt costs 2 mana, he's basically a bear that doesn't attack but can randomly give you card advantage and, if left alone, will win you the game. So, yeah, a pretty bad card, but not THIS terrible. Chandra Ablaze at least DOES something right away, you can use her minus ability to basically draw 3 cards, empty your hand again, and repeat. So, yeah, she needs a very narrow and especific scenario to be effective, but, again, I can see WHY you would play her in a deck. New Jace, though? Is completely outclassed by... most creatures, even.
Might want to read the +1 again.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
Boy do you look silly right now. Glad you sufficiently made an ass of yourself to lead up to this post.