My guess is that with the the old pain lands being reprinted here we can expect the enemy 5 in Khans. Wouldnt be at all surprising.
They will do full cycles of duals in block(to help block constructed and fixing) ( while in core they can do just half the cycle...)
Khans will have a full 10 dual land cycle or will have 5 (mono or fetche)(they didn't said anything about all ten fetches at once )
Fetches have been considered duals by maro before. So there goes that idea. Also by not printing the other 5 pain lands they would violate their rules by not print all 10.
I would say there will be a common dual land cycle. But I would be very surprised to see a different rare cycle.
My guess is that with the the old pain lands being reprinted here we can expect the enemy 5 in Khans. Wouldnt be at all surprising.
They will do full cycles of duals in block(to help block constructed and fixing) ( while in core they can do just half the cycle...)
Khans will have a full 10 dual land cycle or will have 5 (mono or fetche)(they didn't said anything about all ten fetches at once )
Fetches have been considered duals by maro before. So there goes that idea. Also by not printing the other 5 pain lands they would violate their rules by not print all 10.
I would say there will be a common dual land cycle. But I would be very surprised to see a different rare cycle.
I wouldn't mind another common dual cycle! The Guildgates were great for new and old and casual and competitive players alike.
My guess is that with the the old pain lands being reprinted here we can expect the enemy 5 in Khans. Wouldnt be at all surprising.
They will do full cycles of duals in block(to help block constructed and fixing) ( while in core they can do just half the cycle...)
Khans will have a full 10 dual land cycle or will have 5 (mono or fetche)(they didn't said anything about all ten fetches at once )
Fetches have been considered duals by maro before. So there goes that idea. Also by not printing the other 5 pain lands they would violate their rules by not print all 10.
I would say there will be a common dual land cycle. But I would be very surprised to see a different rare cycle.
Men read the articles again...
They did not printed half the Scry lands in M14 because they where following the rule : " Print the full cycle of duals in block" and soo we got 10 duals in Theros Block: 5 scry lands in Theros, 3 scry lands in Born of the Gods , 2 scry lands in Journey into Nyx..
At the End of the Block we had equal mana fix (by lands) for all colors pairs.
If they wanted ( for trolling ) they could just print Shivan Reef in a hole Core set without break they rules.
Block from now on will have 10 duals.
Innistrad Block had 5 ( enemy checks) cause this rule was not active yet ( M14 - Theros). Innistrad block constructed had strong fixing in enemy colors because that.
Khans of Tarkir Block will have a new cycle of duals.
We are good at making rules for wizards. Up until yesterday, there were two rules:
-No life-pay lands in core sets, and
-no half-cycles of dual lands.
These rules were used by so many of us, in varying degree of "set-in-stone-ness". But as soon as these rules are broken, we jump onto the "there will always be a full cycle in Block", and now that is set in stone instead.
To original poster: I was one to really dismiss your post. It read to me almost as if you had mixed up "shocks" with "fetch". But I now see what you were trying to say. Fetchlands in Tarkir would make it easy to play an untapped checkland on turn two, so presumably, fetches are still a long while off.
At this point, I am almost more saddened by the lack of useful/useless discussion in the fetchlands-thread than of the actual lack of the lands themselves:)
Tarkir will have a set of 10 duals (I'm pretty sure he said they would be new, need to check though). However, it is possible that, even if the new duals are somewhat friendly to aggro, the distribution through the block would be a problem for some decks. For example, say they want a RW aggro deck (or any other enemy color pairing aggro) to exist after rotation, but the corresponding dual isn't going to be released until the third set (like temple of malady). Last year, this hypothetical aggro deck would have had to manage with only it's shockland, making it difficult to run color-intensive cards, but still being possible (especially with hybrid mana symbols to help out). With Temples as the only lands surviving rotation (and Mana Confluence), it would be extremely difficult for this deck to work, as temples are bad in aggro. A deck with 4 Mana Confluence and basics is giving itself a lot of problems. Adding the painlands makes this deck much better. I think Tarkir (set) will have only ally-colored duals, which are NOT the painlands, with the cycle being completed through the block.
We are good at making rules for wizards. Up until yesterday, there were two rules:
-No life-pay lands in core sets, and
-no half-cycles of dual lands.
These rules were used by so many of us, in varying degree of "set-in-stone-ness". But as soon as these rules are broken, we jump onto the "there will always be a full cycle in Block", and now that is set in stone instead.
To original poster: I was one to really dismiss your post. It read to me almost as if you had mixed up "shocks" with "fetch". But I now see what you were trying to say. Fetchlands in Tarkir would make it easy to play an untapped checkland on turn two, so presumably, fetches are still a long while off.
At this point, I am almost more saddened by the lack of useful/useless discussion in the fetchlands-thread than of the actual lack of the lands themselves:)
To be fair. We're not making the rules. They had previously said they wouldn't put lands that cost life in Core Sets. That was their rule. It doesn't mean they can't change it, but it was a rule they had. Similarly, they did say they wouldn't print half cyles. That was the rule, they have now changed that rule. We now know the rule to be blocks will have all ten color combos. They could change this, but based on what we have been told, that is the rule they will follow (until they change the rule).
We are good at making rules for wizards. Up until yesterday, there were two rules:
-No life-pay lands in core sets, and
-no half-cycles of dual lands.
These rules were used by so many of us, in varying degree of "set-in-stone-ness". But as soon as these rules are broken, we jump onto the "there will always be a full cycle in Block", and now that is set in stone instead.
To original poster: I was one to really dismiss your post. It read to me almost as if you had mixed up "shocks" with "fetch". But I now see what you were trying to say. Fetchlands in Tarkir would make it easy to play an untapped checkland on turn two, so presumably, fetches are still a long while off.
At this point, I am almost more saddened by the lack of useful/useless discussion in the fetchlands-thread than of the actual lack of the lands themselves:)
Yeah ... sometimes we read too much what they put on mothership. but that is the only basis we have about what they think and what they are most probably printing...
In the second Journey into Nyx Multiverse article , you may have noticed a line about Mana Confluence:
DH 8/16: Question for the general population: Is this supposed to be "Pay 1 life, T: ..." instead?
KD 8/20: Per Dave and Erik: Now pay life rather than deal damage, to match the land cycles we are most likely to reprint.
Reprints—Functional or Actual
That may not be what you were expecting. Okay, so I have to admit—I included the comment in the Multiverse article because I thought it was ironic. As I mentioned in the article, we vastly prefer the pay life template to the deal damage template. Moving forward, we will probably print all of our lands that have life payments somehow associated to match what Mana Confluence and the shock lands both do. When that comment was written, we had no intention of printing the pain lands in Magic 2015. One of the advantages of a core set is that you get to fill the holes you need to fill with reprints—and that definitely came up here.
...
... We did discuss making a new cycle of lands like the pain lands, using the pay-a-life model,but decided against it. Functional reprints would've more closely aligned with how we think dual lands should read, but that doesn't mean we feel the need to always go with the better wording. In this case, it was much easier to go with what already existed. A lot of people already own pain lands, and we felt there was a lot of nostalgia rolled into the exact cards Caves of Koilos, Shivan Reef, Llanowar Wastes, Battlefield Forge, and Yavimaya Coast. Those people get to play the lands they have come to know in Standard for a while, and new players will get the chance to acquire them, as well as the option of using other versions—like the originals in Apocalypse.
its not a rule but instead a more probably then not.
The Future of Dual Lands
It was around this time last year that I revealed that Magic 2014 didn't have a cycle of dual lands . That was because we were introducing the cycle of scry lands with Theros block, and we wanted to make sure all of the decks in the format were on even footing. I have been very happy, overall, with how the scry lands have played, although I will admit I wish the non-mono-colored aggressive decks had been a bit stronger this year. We left the check lands out of Magic 2014 because it would've been more mana fixing in Standard than we would've wanted to support Theros. We also wanted to make sure the mana fixing was distributed in such a way that all decks had access to enough to cast their spells.
While it made thematic sense to separate enemy and allied color fixing in the past, we have come around to the definite conclusion that it is just plain incorrect from a game-play perspective. This is one of these situations where game play should just trump flavor. Looking at Standard as recent as Scars of Mirrodin/Innistrad, it isn't surprising that the vast majority of decks were two-color allied decks—the enemy color decks were playing Terramorphic Expanse and the Innistrad duals as opposed to playing the Scars fast lands and M10 duals . All things being said, there is a relatively small power difference between those two mana bases, but a combination of the perceived inequity and a small power level difference really hurt the enemy-color decks. We already generally produce fewer enemy-color gold cards than allied-color gold cards, so adding in those cards being harder to cast just doesn't help them see Standard play.
Current Standard mana bases are about as strong as we have ever allowed mana to be in Standard. While it's true that you don't get the secondary strength of man lands like you did in Zendikar-era Standard, having access to twenty-four lands that can enter the battlefield untapped and don't lose you life each turn in a three-color deck is an unheard of feat in Standard's history. By the time Gatecrash was released, we saw a great number of three-color aggro and control decks, and this really afforded players to cast the Return to Ravnica cards they wanted without going too far out of their way. I think this was tremendous boon for Return to Ravnica block.
As Zac Hill mentioned last year, the core duals introduced with M10 wouldn't have been included in M13 except for how well they played with the Ravnica shocklands (okay, that last point was only implied in his article). It was very important for us that Return to Ravnica, a block based around multicolor cards, have the Standard support to make said multicolor cards playable. Keeping only one set in the core set instead of both would've caused an inequity in the mana fixing and led us to printing only one set of duals in Theros, making Block worse, and forcing us to continue an inequity somewhere else.
...
I will let you in on a secret—there will be a cycle of dual lands in Theros block. I can't tell you anything else about them yet, but I am very excited about them. Releasing the dual lands in that set will let us better control how Standard plays out, and will let us create a better experience for Theros block, which will in turn improve Theros-"Huey" Standard.
...
I personally believe that is a good thing. We need to change things around in Standard every year to keep the game fresh, and utilizing the mana base is one of the tools we have to do it. This year, the core set has no duals. Next year it could, and they might disappear the year after that. It's really hard to say this far out. What we plan to do is use the slot of rare dual lands in the core set as a tool to help balance out Standard and make sure that we have enough mana fixing in the format year after year.
So, if Magic 2015 only has five lands, how will Standard cope? Have we changed our thinking on dual lands?
The answer is no—the statement I made last year is still true—our hope moving forward with Standard is to make sure that players have the mana base to make their decks work, and part of that means that players in Block will also have adequate mana. It probably won't come as a surprise for you to find out that Khans of Tarkir has a cycle of dual lands—the last Magic fall expansion to not have a set of dual lands was Mirrodin (although, I will admit that Time Spiral's charge lands left quite a bit to be desired in terms of actual mana fixing). We still plan on letting players cast their spells. We are just breaking things up a bit again.
I can't tell you anything about the Khans of Tarkir cycle of dual lands yet, but I can tell you that they will make an impact on Standard. I know there was some skepticism last year when I revealed the scry lands for the first time, which many players believed wouldn't be strong enough to see Standard play. Seeing that there are decks playing off-color scry lands, and also that they have begun to show up in Modern, I think it is safe to say the lands were powerful enough.
They will print a new (i think) cycle in tarkir that will not just be alied or enemy but both(shards&wedges). in core they can do cycles to help T2 but they want to have good fixing for standard ;;;;
khans wedge
Is this really a surprise to anybody? I don't know who was actually expecting shocks in the next set anyway. Hey I got another big spoiler for you. I heard the fall set will have....Basic Lands!!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
I will say that Stodard's reasoning for why the pain lands were included does leave the door open for a reprint of filterlands in Khans. They can't come down turn one and tap for colored mana. I really don't use them often (they cause problems), but I know they are unreasonably expensive and some people really like them.
Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but Stodard's comment about the Scrylands being initially unpopular, but eventually becoming Standard staples, leads me to believe that the cycle in Khans will elicit similar reactions at first glance.
Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but Stodard's comment about the Scrylands being initially unpopular, but eventually becoming Standard staples, leads me to believe that the cycle in Khans will elicit similar reactions at first glance.
My guess is that with the the old pain lands being reprinted here we can expect the enemy 5 in Khans. Wouldnt be at all surprising.
They will do full cycles of duals in block(to help block constructed and fixing) ( while in core they can do just half the cycle...)
Khans will have a full 10 dual land cycle or will have 5 (mono or fetche)(they didn't said anything about all ten fetches at once )
Fetches have been considered duals by maro before. So there goes that idea. Also by not printing the other 5 pain lands they would violate their rules by not print all 10.
I would say there will be a common dual land cycle. But I would be very surprised to see a different rare cycle.
They said that the 10-card dual land cycles only matter in blocks to help with Block Constructed. Not only would printing only 5 dual lands to match the core set dual lands directly contradict this, but the allied painlands have the names of locations on Dominaria, while the Khans of Tarkir block is on Tarkir. Because of this it is impossible for the painlands to be reprinted in Tarkir.
Fetches have been considered duals by maro before. So there goes that idea. Also by not printing the other 5 pain lands they would violate their rules by not print all 10.
I would say there will be a common dual land cycle. But I would be very surprised to see a different rare cycle.
I wouldn't mind another common dual cycle! The Guildgates were great for new and old and casual and competitive players alike.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Men read the articles again...
They did not printed half the Scry lands in M14 because they where following the rule : " Print the full cycle of duals in block" and soo we got 10 duals in Theros Block: 5 scry lands in Theros, 3 scry lands in Born of the Gods , 2 scry lands in Journey into Nyx..
At the End of the Block we had equal mana fix (by lands) for all colors pairs.
They did not said anything about printing half cycles in Cores ( the last article don't ) soo they can print 5 duals in Cores to help fixing (if speculations about Khans of Tarkir being a wedge block then enemy pain lands makes sense for helping fixing: Battlefield Forge+Caves of Koilos for WRB , Llanowar Wastes+Caves of Koilos for BWG , Llanowar Wastes+Yavimaya Coast for GBU (BUG) , Battlefield Forge+Shivan Reef for RWU , Shivan Reef+Yavimaya Coast for URG (RUG) )
If they wanted ( for trolling ) they could just print Shivan Reef in a hole Core set without break they rules.
Block from now on will have 10 duals.
Innistrad Block had 5 ( enemy checks) cause this rule was not active yet ( M14 - Theros). Innistrad block constructed had strong fixing in enemy colors because that.
Khans of Tarkir Block will have a new cycle of duals.
-No life-pay lands in core sets, and
-no half-cycles of dual lands.
These rules were used by so many of us, in varying degree of "set-in-stone-ness". But as soon as these rules are broken, we jump onto the "there will always be a full cycle in Block", and now that is set in stone instead.
To original poster: I was one to really dismiss your post. It read to me almost as if you had mixed up "shocks" with "fetch". But I now see what you were trying to say. Fetchlands in Tarkir would make it easy to play an untapped checkland on turn two, so presumably, fetches are still a long while off.
At this point, I am almost more saddened by the lack of useful/useless discussion in the fetchlands-thread than of the actual lack of the lands themselves:)
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
To be fair. We're not making the rules. They had previously said they wouldn't put lands that cost life in Core Sets. That was their rule. It doesn't mean they can't change it, but it was a rule they had. Similarly, they did say they wouldn't print half cyles. That was the rule, they have now changed that rule. We now know the rule to be blocks will have all ten color combos. They could change this, but based on what we have been told, that is the rule they will follow (until they change the rule).
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Yeah ... sometimes we read too much what they put on mothership. but that is the only basis we have about what they think and what they are most probably printing...
About the pay 1 life rule:
its not a rule but instead a more probably then not.
They will print a new (i think) cycle in tarkir that will not just be alied or enemy but both(shards&wedges). in core they can do cycles to help T2 but they want to have good fixing for standard ;;;;
khans wedge
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
idon't know if this is sarcarsm or you re being serious ...
peace bro
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Like half all the rares ever spoiled
They said that the 10-card dual land cycles only matter in blocks to help with Block Constructed. Not only would printing only 5 dual lands to match the core set dual lands directly contradict this, but the allied painlands have the names of locations on Dominaria, while the Khans of Tarkir block is on Tarkir. Because of this it is impossible for the painlands to be reprinted in Tarkir.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.