Fetch Lands
Fetch lands are fine, but they do slow the game down. Having to shuffle and cut with every other land drop gets tedious in paper magic.
Pain Lands
With dual, fetch and shock lands available in legacy, and fetch and shock lands available in modern, these lands will see no play outside of standard.
In standard, I think they could be interesting. I started playing magic In Masques and 6th edition. Back then, I remember standard decks having to play Ice age pain lands or city of brass in order to accommodate 2-3 color decks. Bops was a legit awesome card for a reason. I think the pain lands create an interesting dynamic for the game: the more colors you go into the more damage you deal yourself via pain lands. I actually like that dynamic more than the relatively risk-free color options in legacy and modern.
I do understand that these lands are unexciting from a modern perspective. But from a standard block creation perspective I think it could be good. Re-introducing risk into multicolor decks (particularly 3+ color decks).
Dangit!!! I was really really hoping that fetch lands would be reprinted. Of course they aren't going to be. Looks like I won't be making another modern deck till I get rich now.
Pain lands really aren't the best. Okay, yeah. They can tap for either of the two colors.. For a life. Decent because they can actually tap for colorless without getting hit unlike City of Brass and Mana confluence.
I'm jus bummed.
Yep, Only the enemy land are printed(which stengthen the "possibility" of Wedge for next block).
Exactly. In each wedge, there is only one (1) allied color pairing, while there are two (2) enemy color pairings. If they could only print five rare lands in the set due to other factors and they wanted to reprint the painlands, thense are the five to reprint if you have a wedge block to follow.
I felt certain that I would find all the Wedge proponents flooding this thread. Unfortunately, it was just a bunch of people who like to post complaints in hopes of getting that all-important "thumbs up."
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In each wedge, there is only one (1) allied color pairing, while there are two (2) enemy color pairings. If they could only print five rare lands in the set due to other factors and they wanted to reprint the painlands, thense are the five to reprint if you have a wedge block to follow.
I felt certain that I would find all the Wedge proponents flooding this thread. Unfortunately, it was just a bunch of people who like to post complaints in hopes of getting that all-important "thumbs up."
Welcome to the Rumor Mill.
I didn't realize at first how these lands being enemy colored enables a wedge theme far more than allied colored lands would. Regardless, I still feel they should complete the cycle at some point later in the Khans block....but I doubt it, especially with the pain lands being tied to specific planes within the story.....it makes me very curious what they're going to do with the dual land cycle in Khans.
I love how not many people like this set of lands. In my opinion they are better than gates or scry lands. If you want a cycle of lands that are super bad and annoying to deal with in tournaments (due to time consuming abilities) here are a few cycles you will love;
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I like it. I hate the lands, but I love that WotC has finally shed even the slightest doubt from what they really think about players.
They could not care less.
In the midst of the insanity that is fetchland and even shockland prices, they went with "let's get those dollar lands, you know, the ones no one really use. Yeah, let's print those, oh oh and not only that, let's see if we can hint at fetch lands somehow, man, it'll be so fun."
So yeah, pretty much the biggest and clearest middle finger they could've chosen. With the Chinese fakes on the rise, it's odd that WotC wants more people to hate them.
Um... Shivan Reef is $10. Wastes is $6. Just saiyan.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Yeah, I think anytime a card is double what it should be a reprint should be celebrated. A fetch reprint in a Fall set will put so many more cards into the pool than a core set.
Just thought of something. Maro said that landfall as a mechanic was very popular, so they'll use it again someday. On another occasion Maro also said that fetchlands played very well with landfall.
Maybe fetchlands will be reprinted the next time they bring back some form of the landfall mechanic.
They say it's evergreen, but when have we ever seen a random card or cycle in a nonmulticlor or hybrid set?
Modern Masters?
I disagree with the premise though. Hybrid and gold are very different (hybrid is multicolor) and the cycle of gold hybrid cards in Alara Reborn, while something new, are a "random cycle" of cards using hybrid as evergreen. We will never get another SHA/EVE block again. The design space for shared space between colors is limited (probably, part of the reason they decided not to bring it back in RTR). I expect the next time we see it, it will be a cycle or a hybrid 'walker or something more "random."
As far as the filterlands themselves, they actually help with playing monocolored mana intensive spells when running two colors, so they could really be reprinted anywhere. Since they are apparently looking to do the cycle of 10 lands in expansions now, I doubt that they will reprint them (part or all) in a core set, but I could see them (re)printing some hybrid cards in a core set someday.
Seriously? When did Painlands become something to bemoan? They have always been a solid set of lands and I for one am happy to see them back. I swear I just think that people who are complaining have become spoiled with near perfect mana fixing with little to no drawback. Good lands are good.
Seriously? When did Painlands become something to bemoan? They have always been a solid set of lands and I for one am happy to see them back. I swear I just think that people who are complaining have become spoiled with near perfect mana fixing with little to no drawback. Good lands are good.
They aren't very popular. Most new people don't like taking damage from their lands which is one of the reasons they stopped putting them in core sets. Not sure what changed their minds.
Seriously? When did Painlands become something to bemoan? They have always been a solid set of lands and I for one am happy to see them back. I swear I just think that people who are complaining have become spoiled with near perfect mana fixing with little to no drawback. Good lands are good.
They aren't very popular. Most new people don't like taking damage from their lands which is one of the reasons they stopped putting them in core sets. Not sure what changed their minds.
Mana Confluence causes you to lose life, did not see anyone whining about that one. Painlands require thought, " Is it worth the damage to splash this color or not? " not just splash all willy nilly. Honestly I just think the people who are pissed are the ones that were so sure that the Fetchlands were going to be reprinted. Honestly anyone thinking that fetches replacing the shocks in standard would have made for stellar mana bases is just fooling themselves. Anyways, popularity aside I think the Painlands were a solid choice for M15.
They say it's evergreen, but when have we ever seen a random card or cycle in a nonmulticlor or hybrid set?
Modern Masters?
I disagree with the premise though. Hybrid and gold are very different (hybrid is multicolor) and the cycle of gold hybrid cards in Alara Reborn, while something new, are a "random cycle" of cards using hybrid as evergreen. We will never get another SHA/EVE block again. The design space for shared space between colors is limited (probably, part of the reason they decided not to bring it back in RTR). I expect the next time we see it, it will be a cycle or a hybrid 'walker or something more "random."
As far as the filterlands themselves, they actually help with playing monocolored mana intensive spells when running two colors, so they could really be reprinted anywhere. Since they are apparently looking to do the cycle of 10 lands in expansions now, I doubt that they will reprint them (part or all) in a core set, but I could see them (re)printing some hybrid cards in a core set someday.
I'm not sure you can use Modern Masters as an example of a time when they used Hyrbid to show that it is evergreen. They also used Affinity and a few other decidedly not evergreen mechanics. Until we see hybrid in a set like we see flying or trample, it's hard to believe it's evergreen.
They say it's evergreen, but when have we ever seen a random card or cycle in a nonmulticlor or hybrid set?
Modern Masters?
I disagree with the premise though. Hybrid and gold are very different (hybrid is multicolor) and the cycle of gold hybrid cards in Alara Reborn, while something new, are a "random cycle" of cards using hybrid as evergreen. We will never get another SHA/EVE block again. The design space for shared space between colors is limited (probably, part of the reason they decided not to bring it back in RTR). I expect the next time we see it, it will be a cycle or a hybrid 'walker or something more "random."
As far as the filterlands themselves, they actually help with playing monocolored mana intensive spells when running two colors, so they could really be reprinted anywhere. Since they are apparently looking to do the cycle of 10 lands in expansions now, I doubt that they will reprint them (part or all) in a core set, but I could see them (re)printing some hybrid cards in a core set someday.
I'm not sure you can use Modern Masters as an example of a time when they used Hyrbid to show that it is evergreen. They also used Affinity and a few other decidedly not evergreen mechanics. Until we see hybrid in a set like we see flying or trample, it's hard to believe it's evergreen.
I guess it really didn't come through that I was half joking about Modern Masters.
Alara Reborn is an example of hybrid as evergreen. It's not going to come back every set, but it is just as evergreen as gold cards, which do not need a multicolor set to return.
The filterlands do not need a hybrid or gold block to be reprinted in.
The filterlands do not need a hybrid or gold block to be reprinted in.
Agreed. I find this enemy color reprint very strange for a core set, and I'm confident that 9 out of 10 planeswalkers players would've been exponentially happier with filterland instead.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
The filterlands do not need a hybrid or gold block to be reprinted in.
Agreed. I find this enemy color reprint very strange for a core set, and I'm confident that 9 out of 10 planeswalkers players would've been exponentially happier with filterland instead.
Filterlands are not nearly as good for aggro decks than Painlands for aggro. Since these lands were meant to push aggro, filterlands made no sense.
The filterlands do not need a hybrid or gold block to be reprinted in.
Agreed. I find this enemy color reprint very strange for a core set, and I'm confident that 9 out of 10 planeswalkers players would've been exponentially happier with filterland instead.
That said, the filterlands do not accomplish their stated objectives for this land cycle, namely improving land quality for two to three color aggro decks. Filterlands are great for any sort of deck that needs it's fixing to come online on the second turn, but they don't do much for decks that have four one drops of one color and four one drops of another, and want to be able to cast either of them.
In each wedge, there is only one (1) allied color pairing, while there are two (2) enemy color pairings. If they could only print five rare lands in the set due to other factors and they wanted to reprint the painlands, thense are the five to reprint if you have a wedge block to follow.
I felt certain that I would find all the Wedge proponents flooding this thread. Unfortunately, it was just a bunch of people who like to post complaints in hopes of getting that all-important "thumbs up."
Welcome to the Rumor Mill.
I didn't realize at first how these lands being enemy colored enables a wedge theme far more than allied colored lands would. Regardless, I still feel they should complete the cycle at some point later in the Khans block....but I doubt it, especially with the pain lands being tied to specific planes within the story.....it makes me very curious what they're going to do with the dual land cycle in Khans.
My assumption is that due to Khans being Large-Small-Large block structure, what's going on is that the land split is going to be 5-0-5. Which would mean that 5 pairings will have to will until next may to get their lands, while the other five have far better mana fixing for a huge amount of time. If true, that means Allied lands in Khans, with enemy lands in the third set, and the painlands are a temporary stop-gap to provide enemy pairing with decent color fixing in the interim.
Beyond that, one could make any number of assumptions, but my thinking is along these lines for why these specific painlands are being printed.
I take it you have never played with dual lands, fetch lands, shock lands or even the filter lands from shadowmoor. These lands are not great, they are worthless, hence them being mostly useless pennyrare fodder (at least at any reasonable store I've ever visited).
....
That's what happens when a card is reprinted a dozen times and isn't Standard legal
This sentiment confuses me. When painlands and fetchlands were simultaneously legal in standard, fetchlands were considered the better lands most of the time.
Nah, the Painlands were played way more than the Fetchlands before Eighth Edition was released
Fetch lands are fine, but they do slow the game down. Having to shuffle and cut with every other land drop gets tedious in paper magic.
Pain Lands
With dual, fetch and shock lands available in legacy, and fetch and shock lands available in modern, these lands will see no play outside of standard.
In standard, I think they could be interesting. I started playing magic In Masques and 6th edition. Back then, I remember standard decks having to play Ice age pain lands or city of brass in order to accommodate 2-3 color decks. Bops was a legit awesome card for a reason. I think the pain lands create an interesting dynamic for the game: the more colors you go into the more damage you deal yourself via pain lands. I actually like that dynamic more than the relatively risk-free color options in legacy and modern.
I do understand that these lands are unexciting from a modern perspective. But from a standard block creation perspective I think it could be good. Re-introducing risk into multicolor decks (particularly 3+ color decks).
G Elves
U Merfolk
Pain lands really aren't the best. Okay, yeah. They can tap for either of the two colors.. For a life. Decent because they can actually tap for colorless without getting hit unlike City of Brass and Mana confluence.
I'm jus bummed.
Exactly. In each wedge, there is only one (1) allied color pairing, while there are two (2) enemy color pairings. If they could only print five rare lands in the set due to other factors and they wanted to reprint the painlands, thense are the five to reprint if you have a wedge block to follow.
I felt certain that I would find all the Wedge proponents flooding this thread. Unfortunately, it was just a bunch of people who like to post complaints in hopes of getting that all-important "thumbs up."
COMMANDER DECKS
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Surrak Presents: Snow-where to Run (A Temur Production)
Zurgo - Mardu Warrior Tribal
Gisa and Geralf
Jhoira's Artifacts
Welcome to the Rumor Mill.
I didn't realize at first how these lands being enemy colored enables a wedge theme far more than allied colored lands would. Regardless, I still feel they should complete the cycle at some point later in the Khans block....but I doubt it, especially with the pain lands being tied to specific planes within the story.....it makes me very curious what they're going to do with the dual land cycle in Khans.
Yeah, people saying pain lands are awful have never played with awful mana bases.
And I use Salt Flats in my Teysa EDH, if only because I wanted every single B/W land in existence in the deck.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Um... Shivan Reef is $10. Wastes is $6. Just saiyan.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Maybe fetchlands will be reprinted the next time they bring back some form of the landfall mechanic.
Modern Masters?
I disagree with the premise though. Hybrid and gold are very different (hybrid is multicolor) and the cycle of gold hybrid cards in Alara Reborn, while something new, are a "random cycle" of cards using hybrid as evergreen. We will never get another SHA/EVE block again. The design space for shared space between colors is limited (probably, part of the reason they decided not to bring it back in RTR). I expect the next time we see it, it will be a cycle or a hybrid 'walker or something more "random."
As far as the filterlands themselves, they actually help with playing monocolored mana intensive spells when running two colors, so they could really be reprinted anywhere. Since they are apparently looking to do the cycle of 10 lands in expansions now, I doubt that they will reprint them (part or all) in a core set, but I could see them (re)printing some hybrid cards in a core set someday.
They aren't very popular. Most new people don't like taking damage from their lands which is one of the reasons they stopped putting them in core sets. Not sure what changed their minds.
Mana Confluence causes you to lose life, did not see anyone whining about that one. Painlands require thought, " Is it worth the damage to splash this color or not? " not just splash all willy nilly. Honestly I just think the people who are pissed are the ones that were so sure that the Fetchlands were going to be reprinted. Honestly anyone thinking that fetches replacing the shocks in standard would have made for stellar mana bases is just fooling themselves. Anyways, popularity aside I think the Painlands were a solid choice for M15.
I'm not sure you can use Modern Masters as an example of a time when they used Hyrbid to show that it is evergreen. They also used Affinity and a few other decidedly not evergreen mechanics. Until we see hybrid in a set like we see flying or trample, it's hard to believe it's evergreen.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
I guess it really didn't come through that I was half joking about Modern Masters.
Alara Reborn is an example of hybrid as evergreen. It's not going to come back every set, but it is just as evergreen as gold cards, which do not need a multicolor set to return.
The filterlands do not need a hybrid or gold block to be reprinted in.
Agreed. I find this enemy color reprint very strange for a core set, and I'm confident that 9 out of 10
planeswalkersplayers would've been exponentially happier with filterland instead.Filterlands are not nearly as good for aggro decks than Painlands for aggro. Since these lands were meant to push aggro, filterlands made no sense.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
My assumption is that due to Khans being Large-Small-Large block structure, what's going on is that the land split is going to be 5-0-5. Which would mean that 5 pairings will have to will until next may to get their lands, while the other five have far better mana fixing for a huge amount of time. If true, that means Allied lands in Khans, with enemy lands in the third set, and the painlands are a temporary stop-gap to provide enemy pairing with decent color fixing in the interim.
Beyond that, one could make any number of assumptions, but my thinking is along these lines for why these specific painlands are being printed.
....
That's what happens when a card is reprinted a dozen times and isn't Standard legal
Nah, the Painlands were played way more than the Fetchlands before Eighth Edition was released