+2/+2, first strike and lifelink to everybody is nasty. Yeah, those casting and activating costs are very high but we have Nykthos available so who knows...
+2/+2, first strike and lifelink to everybody is nasty. Yeah, those casting and activating costs are very high but we have Nykthos available so who knows...
Not anymore costly than Overrun, and it's less mana intensive, comes with a 6/6 body and can be used from the yard. That seems pretty solid.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Galspanic »
If someone is playing Icy Manipulator against you, you've already won.
Looks like a very solid 5 drop, until you realise it costs 6.
Compare this to Deadbridge Goliath, which sees no play. The front end is better but only half a mana to one mana better, the graveyard effect is about the same power level as the Goliath's.
$2 mythic medium term.
Sorry but six mana for 5 counters at sorcery speed is really a lot worse because this is instant speed. Remember Dictate of Heliod being the biggest non-mythic bomb in Journey into Nyx? This is similar except it doesnt cost you a card if its from the graveyard. If this thing is in there, every combat step the opponent has to deal with the threat of activation of this thing, which is unimaginably more huge than a silly sorcery speed scavenge ability.
Nobody seems to care that instant speed >>>>>>>>>> sorcery speed effects. Its not comparable to scavenge and its also not comparable to overrun because thats just a different type of game.
Dictate of Heliod is insane in Limited because noone expects you to have it, because it's a rare. Take away the surprise, and the instant-sorcery gap gets closed somewhat.
Noone is doubting that this card will be the absolute nuts in Limited; it passes the 'Shivan Dragon' test (you'd never take a Shivan Dragon over it if colour wasn't a factor). In Constructed, however, the only format it would be played in would be 1 or 2 set block, and being in a Core Set, it's not eligible for that.
I think they're totally different and totally not close. The power gap between the two is so big that it's pretty embarrassing to even compare them. Soul is the better card here. Giving your entire team lifelink is no joke, hence my rating for it to be m15's 2nd best card (for limited). It trumps all the other souls as well, but that's not the point.
My only problem with this is that it gives your guys first strike, which takes the shine off Soul of Shandalar's. Wizards seriously need to expand red's color pie further.
I agree. I think all the souls are really. They could find a home in standard if the format slows down a bit though. I don't think decks will race to get these guys out but they may find a home.
Looks like a very solid 5 drop, until you realise it costs 6.
Compare this to Deadbridge Goliath, which sees no play. The front end is better but only half a mana to one mana better, the graveyard effect is about the same power level as the Goliath's.
$2 mythic medium term.
Sorry but six mana for 5 counters at sorcery speed is really a lot worse because this is instant speed. Remember Dictate of Heliod being the biggest non-mythic bomb in Journey into Nyx? This is similar except it doesnt cost you a card if its from the graveyard. If this thing is in there, every combat step the opponent has to deal with the threat of activation of this thing, which is unimaginably more huge than a silly sorcery speed scavenge ability.
Nobody seems to care that instant speed >>>>>>>>>> sorcery speed effects. Its not comparable to scavenge and its also not comparable to overrun because thats just a different type of game.
Dictate of Heliod is insane in Limited because noone expects you to have it, because it's a rare. Take away the surprise, and the instant-sorcery gap gets closed somewhat.
Noone is doubting that this card will be the absolute nuts in Limited; it passes the 'Shivan Dragon' test (you'd never take a Shivan Dragon over it if colour wasn't a factor). In Constructed, however, the only format it would be played in would be 1 or 2 set block, and being in a Core Set, it's not eligible for that.
Except that's not the main reason instant is so much better. A single guy that can tap and give someone a buff makes combat math rough - this just makes it absolutely miserable. More importantly, how do we know we can't surprise people with it? What if there's a looter in the format? Tap it to discard this, activate it from the GY. People continue to underestimate how busted the ability to use these guys once from the yard is. What creature gives you value against removal, counterspells and discard?
The odds of you beating this card in limited are miniscule. It might be good, assuming standard is a little bit slow and creature heavy as has been hinted, in standard, too.
This cycle of Mythics means I won't be buying a box of this core set any time soon...
I am similarly becoming more disenchanted with the mythics in this set to the point that I'm starting to become afraid of opening one outside of limited.
I don't really think it makes sense to let the mythics determine your interest in buying a box of the set. You typically only get one or two per box so it's not exactly a reliable way to return the investment. Focusing on the average strength of the rares seems better.
This one is okay. But the thing I am wondering now... Are all the mythic slots taken up by the Souls and planeswalkers, or are there still some mythic slots left to be revealed?
I don't really think it makes sense to let the mythics determine your interest in buying a box of the set. You typically only get one or two per box so it's not exactly a reliable way to return the investment. Focusing on the average strength of the rares seems better.
This one is okay. But the thing I am wondering now... Are all the mythic slots taken up by the Souls and planeswalkers, or are there still some mythic slots left to be revealed?
I think generally 15-16 mythics in a core set. We know that one will be the sliver, one will be garruk, and one will be jace so my guess is 2-3 completely unknown.
I don't really think it makes sense to let the mythics determine your interest in buying a box of the set. You typically only get one or two per box so it's not exactly a reliable way to return the investment. Focusing on the average strength of the rares seems better.
This one is okay. But the thing I am wondering now... Are all the mythic slots taken up by the Souls and planeswalkers, or are there still some mythic slots left to be revealed?
I think generally 15-16 mythics in a core set. We know that one will be the sliver, one will be garruk, and one will be jace so my guess is 2-3 completely unknown.
The six souls- 6
The six planeswalkers- 12
The Sliver Mythic- 13
The Chained Veil ( I don't remeber if this was confirmed a mythic)- 14
That leaves 1-2 competely unknown, unless I'm forgetting something.
On this card, I think it is great in limited, but not good enough right now for constructed. However, I'll pass final judgement on this cycle after I: see the entire set (there may be some good interactions); and/or see the mechanics for the next block (there may be some good interactions). Like imagine if one of the returning mechanics for the next block was madness. With all the enablers to make madness work, these could actually see play and be very good. Either way I imagine the presence of these guys may have been why Liliana of the Veil was considered too good to bring back here. Imagine using her +1 and discarding this guy, Soul of Innistrad, or Soul of New Phyrexia; seems really good even for standard (though I would have liked to play with that now that I think about it).
The Sliver Mythic- 13
The Chained Veil ( I don't remeber if this was confirmed a mythic)- 14
Where did you hear about these? I don't see them listed on the spoiler list on this site.
An article on the MTG homesite mentioned them.
EDIT: you can find the info here: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-2015—its-there-2014-06-23 (Seems like I can't make the link to the right article, since it always redirect to this forum - possible another way of protection from bots? Just copy the url into your browser to get to the article)
This two parts from the article are relevant:
For extra story-filled goodness, we've also included a certain legendary mythic rare artifact that has had a role in making Garruk the man he is today. Stay tuned to Uncharted Realms for that one.
Slivers!
What? Weren't Slivers M14's thing? Yes, they were, but I didn't want people who made Sliver decks in M14 to never get any new toys to play with. Because Slivers don't reside on Theros, M15 was the only other chance we had to get new Slivers into Standard alongside Galerider Sliver, Predatory Sliver, and the rest of the M14 crew. There is a cycle of five uncommons, many of which play well on their own and are devastating in combination, as well as a new mythic rare Sliver that every Sliver aficionado has been waiting for.
Looks like a very solid 5 drop, until you realise it costs 6.
Compare this to Deadbridge Goliath, which sees no play. The front end is better but only half a mana to one mana better, the graveyard effect is about the same power level as the Goliath's.
$2 mythic medium term.
Sorry but six mana for 5 counters at sorcery speed is really a lot worse because this is instant speed. Remember Dictate of Heliod being the biggest non-mythic bomb in Journey into Nyx? This is similar except it doesnt cost you a card if its from the graveyard. If this thing is in there, every combat step the opponent has to deal with the threat of activation of this thing, which is unimaginably more huge than a silly sorcery speed scavenge ability.
Nobody seems to care that instant speed >>>>>>>>>> sorcery speed effects. Its not comparable to scavenge and its also not comparable to overrun because thats just a different type of game.
Dictate of Heliod is insane in Limited because noone expects you to have it, because it's a rare. Take away the surprise, and the instant-sorcery gap gets closed somewhat.
Noone is doubting that this card will be the absolute nuts in Limited; it passes the 'Shivan Dragon' test (you'd never take a Shivan Dragon over it if colour wasn't a factor). In Constructed, however, the only format it would be played in would be 1 or 2 set block, and being in a Core Set, it's not eligible for that.
Except that's not the main reason instant is so much better. A single guy that can tap and give someone a buff makes combat math rough - this just makes it absolutely miserable. More importantly, how do we know we can't surprise people with it? What if there's a looter in the format? Tap it to discard this, activate it from the GY. People continue to underestimate how busted the ability to use these guys once from the yard is. What creature gives you value against removal, counterspells and discard?
The odds of you beating this card in limited are miniscule. It might be good, assuming standard is a little bit slow and creature heavy as has been hinted, in standard, too.
This will never (save a reprint) be in a Standard format without Elspeth, and the idea that any deck will willingly play this creature (which is overcosted by a full mana by today's standards) when Elspeth is legal is ridiculous. If Elspeth did not exist it *might* be a fringe card but I still do not believe that is likely - much better 6 drops like Aurelia the Warleader and Prime Speaker Zegana are seeing no play at all right now.
Compared to this card, Elspeth is better whether you are behind, ahead, or at parity in the lategame.
As for deliberately discarding it or milling it for the 'flashback', that was a hoop worth jumping through for Unburial Rites, or (years ago) Roar of the Wurm, because their flashbacks were undercosted (at the time, it's no longer the case for Roar). It's not worthwhile for this Overrun variant.
Looks like a very solid 5 drop, until you realise it costs 6.
Compare this to Deadbridge Goliath, which sees no play. The front end is better but only half a mana to one mana better, the graveyard effect is about the same power level as the Goliath's.
$2 mythic medium term.
Sorry but six mana for 5 counters at sorcery speed is really a lot worse because this is instant speed. Remember Dictate of Heliod being the biggest non-mythic bomb in Journey into Nyx? This is similar except it doesnt cost you a card if its from the graveyard. If this thing is in there, every combat step the opponent has to deal with the threat of activation of this thing, which is unimaginably more huge than a silly sorcery speed scavenge ability.
Nobody seems to care that instant speed >>>>>>>>>> sorcery speed effects. Its not comparable to scavenge and its also not comparable to overrun because thats just a different type of game.
Dictate of Heliod is insane in Limited because noone expects you to have it, because it's a rare. Take away the surprise, and the instant-sorcery gap gets closed somewhat.
Noone is doubting that this card will be the absolute nuts in Limited; it passes the 'Shivan Dragon' test (you'd never take a Shivan Dragon over it if colour wasn't a factor). In Constructed, however, the only format it would be played in would be 1 or 2 set block, and being in a Core Set, it's not eligible for that.
Except that's not the main reason instant is so much better. A single guy that can tap and give someone a buff makes combat math rough - this just makes it absolutely miserable. More importantly, how do we know we can't surprise people with it? What if there's a looter in the format? Tap it to discard this, activate it from the GY. People continue to underestimate how busted the ability to use these guys once from the yard is. What creature gives you value against removal, counterspells and discard?
The odds of you beating this card in limited are miniscule. It might be good, assuming standard is a little bit slow and creature heavy as has been hinted, in standard, too.
This will never (save a reprint) be in a Standard format without Elspeth, and the idea that any deck will willingly play this creature (which is overcosted by a full mana by today's standards) when Elspeth is legal is ridiculous. If Elspeth did not exist it *might* be a fringe card but I still do not believe that is likely - much better 6 drops like Aurelia the Warleader and Prime Speaker Zegana are seeing no play at all right now.
Compared to this card, Elspeth is better whether you are behind, ahead, or at parity in the lategame.
As for deliberately discarding it or milling it for the 'flashback', that was a hoop worth jumping through for Unburial Rites, or (years ago) Roar of the Wurm, because their flashbacks were undercosted (at the time, it's no longer the case for Roar). It's not worthwhile for this Overrun variant.
What kind of lunatic are you if you think this is overcosted?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“A man's at odds to know his mind cause his mind is aught he has to know it with. He can know his heart, but he dont want to. Rightly so. Best not to look in there. It aint the heart of a creature that is bound in the way that God has set for it. You can find meanness in the least of creatures, but when God made man the devil was at his elbow. A creature that can do anything. Make a machine. And a machine to make the machine. And evil that can run itself a thousand years, no need to tend it.”
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
It's obviously not something you'd set out to do, but if you've got a looter in limited you could easily steal games off of looting this away and using its ability as an instant pseudo overrun. Also, Elspeth is clearly not better if you're ahead. Elspeth does less the turn she's played if you're ahead and significantly less if you untap with her and are ahead.
What kind of lunatic are you if you think this is overcosted?
I do not think this would see Standard play at 3WW to cast and 4WW to activate. Not only is it not close to the good titan (Primeval), it's not close to the less played titans (Grave, Inferno).
It is weaker than the alternative finishers - Elspeth and Aetherling - and weaker than utterly unplayed 6 mana creatures of yesteryear, like Admonition Angel, Purity and the like.
For a single 6 mana payment, you get a 6/6 creature, which would not see Constructed play at 4 mana and a card. Then to get any further value you need to invest another 6 mana.
The blue and green Souls are awful, the red one and artifact one are better than this and might see play, and the black one may have sideboard uses for grindy games. But generally, what a terrible cycle.
What kind of lunatic are you if you think this is overcosted?
I do not think this would see Standard play at 3WW to cast and 4WW to activate. Not only is it not close to the good titan (Primeval), it's not close to the less played titans (Grave, Inferno).
If you are talking about Standard, what is the point in comparing it to cards that aren't in Standard?
It is weaker than the alternative finishers - Elspeth and Aetherling - and weaker than utterly unplayed 6 mana creatures of yesteryear, like Admonition Angel, Purity and the like.
Unfair comparison, Aetherling is rotating out. Again, if you're talking about Standard, it only makes sense to compare it with other cards that will be playable in the same Standard environment. Elspeth is usually a better card, unless your opponent is at 6 and you have a Gods Willing in your hand.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
No, but seriously, it will do great in my deck.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Not anymore costly than Overrun, and it's less mana intensive, comes with a 6/6 body and can be used from the yard. That seems pretty solid.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Dictate of Heliod is insane in Limited because noone expects you to have it, because it's a rare. Take away the surprise, and the instant-sorcery gap gets closed somewhat.
Noone is doubting that this card will be the absolute nuts in Limited; it passes the 'Shivan Dragon' test (you'd never take a Shivan Dragon over it if colour wasn't a factor). In Constructed, however, the only format it would be played in would be 1 or 2 set block, and being in a Core Set, it's not eligible for that.
I think they're totally different and totally not close. The power gap between the two is so big that it's pretty embarrassing to even compare them. Soul is the better card here. Giving your entire team lifelink is no joke, hence my rating for it to be m15's 2nd best card (for limited). It trumps all the other souls as well, but that's not the point.
My only problem with this is that it gives your guys first strike, which takes the shine off Soul of Shandalar's. Wizards seriously need to expand red's color pie further.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I agree. I think all the souls are really. They could find a home in standard if the format slows down a bit though. I don't think decks will race to get these guys out but they may find a home.
Except that's not the main reason instant is so much better. A single guy that can tap and give someone a buff makes combat math rough - this just makes it absolutely miserable. More importantly, how do we know we can't surprise people with it? What if there's a looter in the format? Tap it to discard this, activate it from the GY. People continue to underestimate how busted the ability to use these guys once from the yard is. What creature gives you value against removal, counterspells and discard?
The odds of you beating this card in limited are miniscule. It might be good, assuming standard is a little bit slow and creature heavy as has been hinted, in standard, too.
I am similarly becoming more disenchanted with the mythics in this set to the point that I'm starting to become afraid of opening one outside of limited.
But in limited, I will be ecstatic.
But.
Should've been an enchantment creature.
This one is okay. But the thing I am wondering now... Are all the mythic slots taken up by the Souls and planeswalkers, or are there still some mythic slots left to be revealed?
I think generally 15-16 mythics in a core set. We know that one will be the sliver, one will be garruk, and one will be jace so my guess is 2-3 completely unknown.
The six souls- 6
The six planeswalkers- 12
The Sliver Mythic- 13
The Chained Veil ( I don't remeber if this was confirmed a mythic)- 14
That leaves 1-2 competely unknown, unless I'm forgetting something.
On this card, I think it is great in limited, but not good enough right now for constructed. However, I'll pass final judgement on this cycle after I: see the entire set (there may be some good interactions); and/or see the mechanics for the next block (there may be some good interactions). Like imagine if one of the returning mechanics for the next block was madness. With all the enablers to make madness work, these could actually see play and be very good. Either way I imagine the presence of these guys may have been why Liliana of the Veil was considered too good to bring back here. Imagine using her +1 and discarding this guy, Soul of Innistrad, or Soul of New Phyrexia; seems really good even for standard (though I would have liked to play with that now that I think about it).
Where did you hear about these? I don't see them listed on the spoiler list on this site.
An article on the MTG homesite mentioned them.
EDIT: you can find the info here: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-2015—its-there-2014-06-23 (Seems like I can't make the link to the right article, since it always redirect to this forum - possible another way of protection from bots? Just copy the url into your browser to get to the article)
This two parts from the article are relevant:
This will never (save a reprint) be in a Standard format without Elspeth, and the idea that any deck will willingly play this creature (which is overcosted by a full mana by today's standards) when Elspeth is legal is ridiculous. If Elspeth did not exist it *might* be a fringe card but I still do not believe that is likely - much better 6 drops like Aurelia the Warleader and Prime Speaker Zegana are seeing no play at all right now.
Compared to this card, Elspeth is better whether you are behind, ahead, or at parity in the lategame.
As for deliberately discarding it or milling it for the 'flashback', that was a hoop worth jumping through for Unburial Rites, or (years ago) Roar of the Wurm, because their flashbacks were undercosted (at the time, it's no longer the case for Roar). It's not worthwhile for this Overrun variant.
What kind of lunatic are you if you think this is overcosted?
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
I do not think this would see Standard play at 3WW to cast and 4WW to activate. Not only is it not close to the good titan (Primeval), it's not close to the less played titans (Grave, Inferno).
It is weaker than the alternative finishers - Elspeth and Aetherling - and weaker than utterly unplayed 6 mana creatures of yesteryear, like Admonition Angel, Purity and the like.
For a single 6 mana payment, you get a 6/6 creature, which would not see Constructed play at 4 mana and a card. Then to get any further value you need to invest another 6 mana.
The blue and green Souls are awful, the red one and artifact one are better than this and might see play, and the black one may have sideboard uses for grindy games. But generally, what a terrible cycle.
If you are talking about Standard, what is the point in comparing it to cards that aren't in Standard?
Unfair comparison, Aetherling is rotating out. Again, if you're talking about Standard, it only makes sense to compare it with other cards that will be playable in the same Standard environment. Elspeth is usually a better card, unless your opponent is at 6 and you have a Gods Willing in your hand.