3hip5me said: I'm all for the reprinting of planeswalkers, but why on earth was Liliana Vess chosen for M15 over Liliana of the Veil, when the former is underpowered casual fodder and the latter is a constructed-playable, multi-format staple in desperate need of a reprint
Maro: Because I believe development thinks Liliana of the Veil is too strong for Standard.
I realize based on wording that this isn't concrete evidence, but the fact that we keep getting more evidence for and no evidence against a Liliana Vess reprint makes it even more likely now. We have this, plus the Vess Art pretty much everywhere and no new art or Veil art anywhere.
Mods: If you feel this isn't enough evidence then please just move this to speculation.
Very dissapointing. This coreset is about 'The Veil', so it would be the perfect time for a Liliana of THE VEIL reprint. And being too strong for Standard? Good grief, what a lousy argument. She just passed a Standard environment.
Since Theros, the standard format has been dominated by mono black. The deck also continued to get new tools in BNG and JOU when decks like mono blue devotion and others got nothing. Sorry, but LOTV is far too strong in the current meta.
Uh, Mono-Black is already the best archetype. They don't want to steal the new planeswalkers' thunder now, do they? Personally, I welcome it, as she's not bad in EDH. Never underestimate tutoring on a stick.
Very dissapointing. This coreset is about 'The Veil', so it would be the perfect time for a Liliana of THE VEIL reprint. And being too strong for Standard? Good grief, what a lousy argument. She just passed a Standard environment.
We are getting a artfact for the Chain Veil and Liliana Vess ( that batled garruk)...
Also Liliana Vess being in M15 products and the funko figures prety much was already a confirmation..
If I was in charge I would reprint Necropotence just to make you all cry.
Mono-B is fairer to the rest of the meta than Aristocrats, CAW-Blade, Jund and Faeries yet you act like it's evil incarnate.
Remember that mono black is losing alot of its power come september. Desecration Demon, lifebane zombie, pack rat, underworld connections, nightveil spectre. The splashs lose abrupt decay, vraska, blood baron. Most of the standard decks are built on a core of RTR cards. Think about how many grey merchants were ar atlanta. Pretty much none.
Lilliana of the Veil in Standard now would be the most overpowered nonsense since the inception of Magic.
Yeah.. mono black with Lilliana of the Veil in standard -> awesome
You must be new to magic. Ever heard of affinity?
And she would be here for 3 months only along with all the mono black cards that make it a deck like: desecration demon, pack rats, mutavault etc.
The problem with afinity was made during Mirrodin and Darkstell ...
After they saw the deck actting they banned major cards and becomed forever with butthurts about broken interactions in Standard... (A reason to not Reprint LotV... Comeon reprint a card that will make a already dominating and popular deck even more strong ? )
Aaron Forsythe has already confirmed in his article that we'll get the Chain Veil in M15. I'm sure Wizards thinks it's on par with LotV... Look at her price on SCG... Sometimes I wished his name was Aaron Foresight... Then all the deep running jokes will begin... lol...
But yea, Liliana Vess is no major player in Standard. That said, she might be a one-of in control decks. We've seen her in action before.
Why don't you go play in the stock market if that's what you care about?
This is a GAME and we're here for fun, not to make money - there's much better and efficient ways to do that if you're so interested
Her +1 is really only good with Waste Not, but leaving either in tact or having both out at the same time is like playing solitaire. There's no flashback or Tarmogoyf in standard, and no easy way to regain card advantage. There's nighthowler and nemesis of mortals but those are pretty tame in comparison and don't give you card advantage. It is risky to play with her +1ing and then just having it get oring'd or downfalled or whatever.
Her sac ability is sorcery speed and while versatile, not overpowered.
Ultimate is pretty nasty but takes a lot of work.
Hypothetically if it were printed for the next 3 months it would be fighting with about a dozen other mono black cards for the 3cmc spot. After that it loses a lot of cards that would make it good.
Conclusion: Wizards wouldn't reprint it because it's an expensive card, which they can use to make people buy MM2.
If that is the case, and Wizards intends to stifle any good Modern reprints into Modern Masters and nothing else, then I will likely be done with the format. Possibly mtg as a whole.
And it's not a case of the "have nots", I have playsets of the fetches, I have 3 lili of the veils, and practically any card I would want for Modern barring goyf at the moment.
But my friends do not. And new players will not. So how they expect people to get into the format with such a weak reprint policy is a total farce. It's no good me playing Modern if noone else can.
Wizards need to raise the power level of standard, reprint some modern staples and print new cards on a power level on par with Modern and/or legacy.
I totally agree. Wish I could play modern, there's a few guys at my LGS trying to set it up but just can't. It's just too expensive for new players.
The more sets people have to choose from the more powerful the cards that are needed to remain competitive so the small pool of broken cards goes way up in value.
Not reserved list = accessible. Yeah right.
Everything right now is pandering to EDH, casual and limited. Standard is an afterthought and modern is treated with contempt like a cash cow to be trotted out when they need money by printing power in overpriced sealed product.
Conclusion: Wizards wouldn't reprint it because it's an expensive card, which they can use to make people buy MM2.
I completely agree. There is no way she would be overpowering in the Standard Meta. If anything, Lily Vess is just horrible in Standard. They are just after more money. It is the only reason they want to not reprint her.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
I don t see the problem with they (if they do) using LotV to sell packs of a posible MM2...
You know high now there are people buying innistrad packs for 4.5+ just hoping o get LotV,TiagoChan, and GoST.
If they can made a good product like MM1 was then i m suporting then...
Conclusion: Wizards wouldn't reprint it because it's an expensive card, which they can use to make people buy MM2.
I completely agree. There is no way she would be overpowering in the Standard Meta. If anything, Lily Vess is just horrible in Standard. They are just after more money. It is the only reason they want to not reprint her.
But wouldn't reprinting Liliana of the veil, make it a chase mythic? It would sell even more packs then putting Liliana Vess in it.
Sure its not terribly exciting, I too would have loved to see LotV reprinted. But getting Vess isn't bad either I don't think. Even though she costs 2 more mana, she can still disrupt hands and also tutor for any card you need. Her -8 is also pretty cool. In the coming standard environment once RTR rotates out she should be pretty decent and probably see some play.
Sure its not terribly exciting, I too would have loved to see LotV reprinted. But getting Vess isn't bad either I don't think. Even though she costs 2 more mana, she can still disrupt hands and also tutor for any card you need. Her -8 is also pretty cool. In the coming standard environment once RTR rotates out she should be pretty decent and probably see some play.
They could have also reprinted Liliana of the Dark Realms, but instead did something different. This is the result.
And I didn't mean it like that. Everybody else in the world seem to be complaining and I just wanted to approve your comment. Sorry if you got it wrong.
And I didn't mean it like that. Everybody else in the world seem to be complaining and I just wanted to approve your comment. Sorry if you got it wrong.
Yeah a reprint of LotV would have sold M15 packs like crazy lol. Wouldn't have been too powerful and would have given players a bit of piece of mind about them actually reprinting much needed cards for Mondern.
This news is rather unfortunate. I would have liked to see Liliana of the Veil in M15 but I guess I can see why Wizards decided not to print her. Whatever set she is printed in is sure to sell well but I would have liked to see her in $4 packs instead of $7 MM2 packs.
I realize based on wording that this isn't concrete evidence, but the fact that we keep getting more evidence for and no evidence against a Liliana Vess reprint makes it even more likely now. We have this, plus the Vess Art pretty much everywhere and no new art or Veil art anywhere.
Mods: If you feel this isn't enough evidence then please just move this to speculation.
Since Theros, the standard format has been dominated by mono black. The deck also continued to get new tools in BNG and JOU when decks like mono blue devotion and others got nothing. Sorry, but LOTV is far too strong in the current meta.
We are getting a artfact for the Chain Veil and Liliana Vess ( that batled garruk)...
Also Liliana Vess being in M15 products and the funko figures prety much was already a confirmation..
Mono-B is fairer to the rest of the meta than Aristocrats, CAW-Blade, Jund and Faeries yet you act like it's evil incarnate.
The problem with afinity was made during Mirrodin and Darkstell ...
After they saw the deck actting they banned major cards and becomed forever with butthurts about broken interactions in Standard... (A reason to not Reprint LotV... Comeon reprint a card that will make a already dominating and popular deck even more strong ? )
But yea, Liliana Vess is no major player in Standard. That said, she might be a one-of in control decks. We've seen her in action before.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
This is a GAME and we're here for fun, not to make money - there's much better and efficient ways to do that if you're so interested
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Her +1 is really only good with Waste Not, but leaving either in tact or having both out at the same time is like playing solitaire. There's no flashback or Tarmogoyf in standard, and no easy way to regain card advantage. There's nighthowler and nemesis of mortals but those are pretty tame in comparison and don't give you card advantage. It is risky to play with her +1ing and then just having it get oring'd or downfalled or whatever.
Her sac ability is sorcery speed and while versatile, not overpowered.
Ultimate is pretty nasty but takes a lot of work.
Hypothetically if it were printed for the next 3 months it would be fighting with about a dozen other mono black cards for the 3cmc spot. After that it loses a lot of cards that would make it good.
Conclusion: Wizards wouldn't reprint it because it's an expensive card, which they can use to make people buy MM2.
I totally agree. Wish I could play modern, there's a few guys at my LGS trying to set it up but just can't. It's just too expensive for new players.
The more sets people have to choose from the more powerful the cards that are needed to remain competitive so the small pool of broken cards goes way up in value.
Not reserved list = accessible. Yeah right.
Everything right now is pandering to EDH, casual and limited. Standard is an afterthought and modern is treated with contempt like a cash cow to be trotted out when they need money by printing power in overpriced sealed product.
/rant lol
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
You know high now there are people buying innistrad packs for 4.5+ just hoping o get LotV,TiagoChan, and GoST.
If they can made a good product like MM1 was then i m suporting then...
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
But wouldn't reprinting Liliana of the veil, make it a chase mythic? It would sell even more packs then putting Liliana Vess in it.
Dega midrange 1-0
Melira Pod - Modern
They could have also reprinted Liliana of the Dark Realms, but instead did something different. This is the result.
Melira Pod - Modern
And I didn't mean it like that. Everybody else in the world seem to be complaining and I just wanted to approve your comment. Sorry if you got it wrong.
Ah alright, no worries
Melira Pod - Modern