We are not raging cause we are selfish but quite the opposite, we are raging as we care about the game. You see the 'Souls' are a 5 card cycle of mythics. The first two were very depressing for their rarity-worth which does not give a great indication to the other 3's worth.
IF this cycle is indeed as bad as Soul of Ravnica, then 5 mythic slots have been wasted. There are only a finite number of mythic slots in a set and wasting them on terrible cards is a waste of a good opportunity for good cards. Look at the old mythics from M13, Primordial Hydra, Sublime Archangel or who could forget Thundermaw Hellkite? I would rather have 5 uber powerful mythic cards with 5 crappy rares than the other way round. The soul of ravnica to me deserves it's rarity as much as Conjured Currency deserves to be rare.
This. Players shouldn't have to cross their fingers and hope they don't pull any mythic rares.
It's Ravnica. I wasn't expecting to like it anyway even if it was 7 mana to win the game. Worst plane ever.
I'm fairly certain you are in a very small minority there. Ravnica is widely one of the most favored planes.
And like I said earlier, it may be a good sign that Wizards is being cautious about creature power level. If they announced that Titans were back in M15, how many of you would be crying and whining about that?
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
If it had been 2UU people wouldn't give it a second thought and if it were 1UU people be freaking out and saying that Mythics shouldn't be so powerful.
You can't please all of the people all of the time and Wizards clearly knows that.
Do note, that is seven mana needing to be used for other things as well for control players. Also, more than half the time it probably won't be more than two or three cards to draw. There are things to be better used in not only Modern, but in Standard too, and and lower rarity as well. Divination is much better than this. Dictate of Kruphix is amazing compared to this too...
is that cause they will not have ****ing chase MR that they will have to pay alot for a playset to play in a format for 1 year ? or that the MR is being used not to print staples but instead to print cards that adds flavor to the game(while not being that powerfull) ????
be glad if we have a good cycle of rares inn M15 cause you will see those 2 times more than you will see the souls cyces while opening boosters...
I don't think people are freaking out. They are saying this card is bad, because it is bad. The power level of Standard would have to be toned down exponentially for this to be a playable card.
This creature is not bad, it's safe - and thank gods of the multiverse for that. Ability is so overcosted for the same reason you don't see 0-cost Flashbacks(and when you do, the card's probably banned somewhere) - it's stupidly easy to dump stuff into your yard. BUG-dredge can be a strong deck for as long as there are some basic enablers in Standart, and believe you me 4*Commune + 4*Satyr Wayfinder is a good start. I'd rather open a meh mythic than watch my opponents grab top half of their decks turn 5.
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Wizards can start putting booster packs inside dog poo and dog owners will still complain.
People need to step back and take a deep breath. Remember this core set is 20 cards bigger than M14. And to Wizards credit, we needed to powerdown standard or we end up on the slippery slope of power creep.
People also need to appreciate that Standard Power level is relative for that environment. So what if there is no crazy bomb like the Titan cycle, if the card is good enough relative too the rest of standard it will see play. I do agree that the cycle does not feel very mythic, but in reality how many mythic really see play outside of limited, casual and EDH-style formats. As a poster above said, 'the sky is not falling'!
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Disclaimer: As per the norm, I am aware some people will disagree with my opinion and I acknowledge there is a possibility that my opinion is wrong. The above post is simply my musings on what I view to be the most likely scenario given the information that is available and I am aware of at the time of typing! Peace.
I'm ok with a reduced power level, but this is kind of off the deep end. Do we really think the white Soul will see any play over Elspeth? (I get it, we need to see it yet, just color me skeptical. )
Like with the domain mechanics of Invasion/Apocalypse/Planeshift, I think the analysis for Soul of Ravnica needs to start with what's fair at 3 colors. Is a 7-mana instant speed draw 3 fair if it costs no cards? Opportunity costs 6 mana and nets 3 cards, so it's pretty much an uncounterable Opportunity for 1 more mana. If so, I can see how they got there, but I still don't want to open a pack with this.
I never bought a single pack of M14 and Born of the Gods for this very reason. I really only ever bought into the Theros Block as a whole for limited play, being much stronger and more powerful than the core set from what I have seen so far) as well as Thoughtseize and Brimaz (I only bought them as singles) Granted the set hasn't fully been spoiled yet, but if things like this are in Mythic slots, chances are I will not be purchasing any of this either, as it's power level is near non exsistent. This card is not powerful by a long shot, and would prefer a utility mythicps over this like Lotus Cobra. Not many people will find the value in this guy, even in limited. Had the Activated Ability been 5 as we originally supposed, then he would be ok, but still not to great.
This card is not a finisher for control. A finisher is something hard to interact with that will close out a game quickly by itself. Aetherling is probably the best example of this, but cards like Entreat the Angels, Assemble the Legion, Morphling, most planeswalkers. Soul of Ravnica's ability doesn't help it as a finisher and its only evasion is flying. On a losing board state the card is awful. You spend a turn getting it out and assuming it survives, which it most likely won't since control only has so many targets for removal, you now have to sink another turn's worth of mana into drawing 2 cards.
If it sees play it will be in a 3/4 color midrange value deck. I can't say whether or not it will see play as the format may just be slow enough come rotation, but as of right now it seems like it will go the way of many good stuff mythics. Just not good enough.
That being said maybe wizards will reprint Training Grounds or give us another card along the same veins to make an activated abilities deck viable.
That being said maybe wizards will reprint Training Grounds or give us another card along the same veins to make an activated abilities deck viable.
So now we are talking about this card, a really lackluster reprint, AND at least one other card to draw more than 1 card off this thing? That's how bad this is - it will require at least 2 cards and 7 mana to replace itself.
It's terrible even if we can come up with some super fringe applications where it's drawing us 5 cards a turn. It's like we only look at the upside without even factoring in the costs in terms of overall game play. Yes, Johnny will cream his pants when he pulls off a turn 6 "draw 5" in his Sliver Queen deck, but the victory is in accomplishing the draw 5 and not in winning the game.
I also find it funny that they printed tehse overcosted graveyard matters cards in an environment that will have Silence the Believers and Banishing LIght in it the entire time they are legal (barring a reprint).
Drawing five cards for seven mana is fair. Particularly since you can activate it during your opponents end step.
If the abillity read draw 5 cards, there would be 0 complaints. Since the ability requires you to have at least one other permanent that is a color soul of ravnica isn't in order to draw more than 1 card however, most of the time the abillity will draw 1-2 cards, sometimes it will draw 3 cards, and on rare occasions, 4-5 cards. For all practical purposes the abillity is a 7 mana draw 1 without any outside assistance, and will sometimes (post wrath for example) do absolutely nothing when the soul of ravnica is in the yard where soul of zendikar is at least worth a card (Savage Conception w/o retrace to be exact).
Soul of Ravnica's abillity was unexciting at 5 mana, and at 7 mana is pretty bad. What do you imagine the board state looks like when you are drawing more than 3 cards off of it? Why aren't you already winning?
People need to step back and take a deep breath. Remember this core set is 20 cards bigger than M14. And to Wizards credit, we needed to powerdown standard or we end up on the slippery slope of power creep.
People also need to appreciate that Standard Power level is relative for that environment. So what if there is no crazy bomb like the Titan cycle, if the card is good enough relative too the rest of standard it will see play. I do agree that the cycle does not feel very mythic, but in reality how many mythic really see play outside of limited, casual and EDH-style formats. As a poster above said, 'the sky is not falling'!
While I am OK with standard getting dialed back a bit now and again, they did go too far too fast this go round, and more importantly they left gaps- there are still crazy good cards even in Theros block despite there being so many duds. What most people don't seem to realize is that RTR block was a dialed back set already (though not as far compared to INN as Theros compared to RTR). Sure there are some crazy off the charts good cards seeing play in legacy and modern, but the power level of those cards is drastically different in those formats compared to standard- [/card]Deathrite shaman[/card] for example is only really good when there are fetch lands powering him up, Abrupt Decay is better in formats that not only have good countermagic to beat, but also a higher density of important permanents at CMC < 4. Think about RTR/INN standard, most of the powerhouse cards in that format outside of U/W decks were from INN.
Unplayable jank except in EDH before, unplayable jank even in EDH now.
Hasn't been playable in EDH for at least 5 years so
The notion that EDH is where bad cards go is pretty outdated and annoying - It's not EDH that plays bad cards it's any bad player in any format.
Unplayable jank except in EDH before, unplayable jank even in EDH now.
Hasn't been playable in EDH for at least 5 years so
The notion that EDH is where bad cards go is pretty outdated and annoying - It's not EDH that plays bad cards it's any bad player in any format.
Not that cause there are some cards that people think are bad and then trns up to be very playable (Desecration Demon and splinter twin are exemples of bulk rare that ended up as staples...)
Even some cards can turn out to be good in the future soo who knows?
Oh my god you guys, there are bad cards! Magic is dead!
Limited card is a bomb in limited. I don't see how this isn't clear to all of you.
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“A man's at odds to know his mind cause his mind is aught he has to know it with. He can know his heart, but he dont want to. Rightly so. Best not to look in there. It aint the heart of a creature that is bound in the way that God has set for it. You can find meanness in the least of creatures, but when God made man the devil was at his elbow. A creature that can do anything. Make a machine. And a machine to make the machine. And evil that can run itself a thousand years, no need to tend it.”
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
That's the thing, it is NOT a bomb in limited. Even in that format there are better choices...
I don't know, a 6/6 flyer for 6 is pretty bomby. Drawing cards at instant speed repeated, even if expensive, is a pretty powerful effect. I'd first pick it, easily, based on what we've seen of M15 so far.
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“A man's at odds to know his mind cause his mind is aught he has to know it with. He can know his heart, but he dont want to. Rightly so. Best not to look in there. It aint the heart of a creature that is bound in the way that God has set for it. You can find meanness in the least of creatures, but when God made man the devil was at his elbow. A creature that can do anything. Make a machine. And a machine to make the machine. And evil that can run itself a thousand years, no need to tend it.”
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
This. Players shouldn't have to cross their fingers and hope they don't pull any mythic rares.
And like I said earlier, it may be a good sign that Wizards is being cautious about creature power level. If they announced that Titans were back in M15, how many of you would be crying and whining about that?
You can't please all of the people all of the time and Wizards clearly knows that.
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
is that cause they will not have ****ing chase MR that they will have to pay alot for a playset to play in a format for 1 year ? or that the MR is being used not to print staples but instead to print cards that adds flavor to the game(while not being that powerfull) ????
be glad if we have a good cycle of rares inn M15 cause you will see those 2 times more than you will see the souls cyces while opening boosters...
Be glad ...
People also need to appreciate that Standard Power level is relative for that environment. So what if there is no crazy bomb like the Titan cycle, if the card is good enough relative too the rest of standard it will see play. I do agree that the cycle does not feel very mythic, but in reality how many mythic really see play outside of limited, casual and EDH-style formats. As a poster above said, 'the sky is not falling'!
Like with the domain mechanics of Invasion/Apocalypse/Planeshift, I think the analysis for Soul of Ravnica needs to start with what's fair at 3 colors. Is a 7-mana instant speed draw 3 fair if it costs no cards? Opportunity costs 6 mana and nets 3 cards, so it's pretty much an uncounterable Opportunity for 1 more mana. If so, I can see how they got there, but I still don't want to open a pack with this.
Soul of Ravnica seems fine in a graveyard-matters five-color EDH deck like Horde of Notions.
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
If it sees play it will be in a 3/4 color midrange value deck. I can't say whether or not it will see play as the format may just be slow enough come rotation, but as of right now it seems like it will go the way of many good stuff mythics. Just not good enough.
That being said maybe wizards will reprint Training Grounds or give us another card along the same veins to make an activated abilities deck viable.
So now we are talking about this card, a really lackluster reprint, AND at least one other card to draw more than 1 card off this thing? That's how bad this is - it will require at least 2 cards and 7 mana to replace itself.
It's terrible even if we can come up with some super fringe applications where it's drawing us 5 cards a turn. It's like we only look at the upside without even factoring in the costs in terms of overall game play. Yes, Johnny will cream his pants when he pulls off a turn 6 "draw 5" in his Sliver Queen deck, but the victory is in accomplishing the draw 5 and not in winning the game.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
If the abillity read draw 5 cards, there would be 0 complaints. Since the ability requires you to have at least one other permanent that is a color soul of ravnica isn't in order to draw more than 1 card however, most of the time the abillity will draw 1-2 cards, sometimes it will draw 3 cards, and on rare occasions, 4-5 cards. For all practical purposes the abillity is a 7 mana draw 1 without any outside assistance, and will sometimes (post wrath for example) do absolutely nothing when the soul of ravnica is in the yard where soul of zendikar is at least worth a card (Savage Conception w/o retrace to be exact).
Soul of Ravnica's abillity was unexciting at 5 mana, and at 7 mana is pretty bad. What do you imagine the board state looks like when you are drawing more than 3 cards off of it? Why aren't you already winning?
While I am OK with standard getting dialed back a bit now and again, they did go too far too fast this go round, and more importantly they left gaps- there are still crazy good cards even in Theros block despite there being so many duds. What most people don't seem to realize is that RTR block was a dialed back set already (though not as far compared to INN as Theros compared to RTR). Sure there are some crazy off the charts good cards seeing play in legacy and modern, but the power level of those cards is drastically different in those formats compared to standard- [/card]Deathrite shaman[/card] for example is only really good when there are fetch lands powering him up, Abrupt Decay is better in formats that not only have good countermagic to beat, but also a higher density of important permanents at CMC < 4. Think about RTR/INN standard, most of the powerhouse cards in that format outside of U/W decks were from INN.
The notion that EDH is where bad cards go is pretty outdated and annoying - It's not EDH that plays bad cards it's any bad player in any format.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Not that cause there are some cards that people think are bad and then trns up to be very playable (Desecration Demon and splinter twin are exemples of bulk rare that ended up as staples...)
Even some cards can turn out to be good in the future soo who knows?
Limited card is a bomb in limited. I don't see how this isn't clear to all of you.
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
I don't know, a 6/6 flyer for 6 is pretty bomby. Drawing cards at instant speed repeated, even if expensive, is a pretty powerful effect. I'd first pick it, easily, based on what we've seen of M15 so far.
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
Now if you are talking about speculation sure, go nuts.
If we evaluate the Souls to what we have now, then it really is not good enough.
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
Dude, it's a 6/6 flyer for 6 that can potentially net you an extra card or two each turn if the game runs late. It's absolutely a bomb.
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube