Turn 1 thoughtseize into turn 2 waste not into turn 3 LotV would be so broken in standard
It bothers me that people presume that Standard can't have nice things.
On the contrary, Standard should have all the available nice things possible. Just because it's Standard doesn't mean it needs to be a dumbed-down pauper-like format. Standard should be able to have cool/strong interactions, as long as they are balanced respectively with everything else that people can do in the format.
i.e. I'd say your scenario would hardly be broken in a Standard format with cards like Loxodon Smiter.
p.s. Liliana of the Veil wasn't really that OP in Standard to begin with. Considering the mechanic she was best at fighting - Hexproof decks - still didn't stop Bant Hexproof from being one of the top played decks at the time.
As for the figurines, they are made by a 3rd party source so we can't really be sure if they are indicative of what's coming in M15 anyways.
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
Does anyone think that Lilliana is not in M15? My take is that they wanted Liliana as one of the figures because she is one of the first Planeswalkers and only as a figure. Garruk will take the black walker roll and then Ajani, Jace, Chandra, and Nissa will be the other walkers in their original colors. What do other's think?
But to the OPs original point, I'd love if these new portrait icons were indicative of new planeswalker cards in M15. A new Jace is LONG overdue. Based on their appearances, Garruk and Nissa are getting new versions for sure. Chandra's latest version is fine and needs reprinting. Ajani could use a new version, although I wouldn't say it's nearly as vital as replacing Liliana of the Dark Realms, and I think seeing Liliana Vess again would be fine.
(Though I'd like to point out that all of the planeswalker portraits have traces of their walker's color, and there's no green in Garruk's)
As for the figures themselves, I'm a big fan. I'm partial to Ajani and Chandra. Although I have to say, some of the faces look a little off - and Nissa's eyes look eerie and soulless.
Turn 1 thoughtseize into turn 2 waste not into turn 3 LotV would be so broken in standard
It bothers me that people presume that Standard can't have nice things.
On the contrary, Standard should have all the available nice things possible. Just because it's Standard doesn't mean it needs to be a dumbed-down pauper-like format. Standard should be able to have cool/strong interactions, as long as they are balanced respectively with everything else that people can do in the format.
i.e. I'd say your scenario would hardly be broken in a Standard format with cards like Loxodon Smiter.
p.s. Liliana of the Veil wasn't really that OP in Standard to begin with. Considering the mechanic she was best at fighting - Hexproof decks - still didn't stop Bant Hexproof from being one of the top played decks at the time.
As for the figurines, they are made by a 3rd party source so we can't really be sure if they are indicative of what's coming in M15 anyways.
liliana didn t played during scars - innistrad standard cause of delver decks and other good stuff decks like GW , then in inistrad -RTR we first got an agro RB that got turn 4 kill too often ( droping lili would give you an extra turn of life but end with 3 or 4 life... and then in RTR-innistrad bant control toke the spot ( also thragtusk wad dominant in the formart) later we got bant hexproof that even if you played lili she would get killed soon, and the jund decks that didnt played her cause there was better options like garruk
Lili of the veil is a control card or agressive disruption ( and simetrical half the times) soo not all the decks did wanted to test her
with waste not it would be arkward cause she would nevver be simetrical , she wuld always grant you somekind of advantage , this with T1:thoughtseize to disrupt early plays and then having alock (discard and gain advantage, your opponent would have to play every thing he draws or give you more advantaage )(and with ili in play it woldn t be that dificult to just kill every creature your op plays...)
T1: discrad any nonland T2; wastenot T3:lilioftheveil, is strong YES
leslak I know for 100% certainty in ISD-RTR standard Lili was played in the most popular deck of that standard year, Jund, all year round, most of the time in the mainboard as a 3 of. In SCM-ISD standard I think it was played too, in esper decks.
She started out very popular due to Unburial Rights, in a Solar Pox style deck, but the deck quickly turned out to be underwhelming for the most part. She didn't see play for a long time and dropped to like 15$ before climbing back up slowly.
She's a solid card, but she's by no means too good, especially when Flashback/Scavenge isn't around.
So we get the enemy colored painlands and not the allied color ones? Well that's reverse of the norm, but I thought Wizards was planning to do full 10 land cycles from now on.
Enemy pains could indicate allied Fetches in the next set, to offset the colour imbalance. It would also make sense since it would allow Modern to have access to all 10 Fetches as opposed to only 5.
Or you could read the article, and now that's not true.
The only reason I don't like the Nissa figure (And probably one of the reasons people are calling sexist.) is because her wearing an outfit that shows of her stomach is different from depictions of her we've seen in the cards (See her Planeswalker art and compare.) I'm guessing her M15 art is giving her a new outfit, otherwise the change in costume makes little sense (Personally I'd have prefered it if her figure had her outfit from the cards but eh.) I think calling sexist is a bit much however, Magic is actually one of the few geeky things out there that actually has fairly equal representation among the sexes, and for the most part they are rarely sexualized (with a few exceptions, Liliana comes to mind, but that's part of her character.) so, while sexism is a problem in the world at large, there isn't really a problem here, if you really are concerned though I'd relay those thoughts to Wizards, just complaining on a forum does nothing.
Anyway...
I'm curious to see if Ajani is in M15, I mean he only just got a new card in Journey Into Nyx, so it'd be weird if he got a new card so soon.
The Jace art actually looks cool, but it's Jace so ehhhh.
A reprint of Liliana Vess would be an... interesting choice, not one I'd expect, but I suppose it's better than another Lili of the Dark Realms.
I sorta hope Nissa get's a new card and role in the story, Doug has given hints about where he thinks her character development might be headed, and I'm actually super keen to see more of her now.
Chandra, Pyromaster is cool, so a reprint wouldn't be so bad, I'd also love to see more Chandra in the storyline, but then again, she's one of my favorite 'Walkers, so you know :3
Garruk... I really can't wait to see what they do with you card-wise... my curiosity is piqued.
Ah, they're finally brought Nissa's consume in line with the other planeswalkers! I believe all walkers now have a version that includes a loincloth. I figure there's planeswalker academy and once you graduate you get a thematic loincloth.
Ah, they're finally brought Nissa's consume in line with the other planeswalkers! I believe all walkers now have a version that includes a loincloth. I figure there's planeswalker academy and once you graduate you get a thematic loincloth.
I noticed that and thought it was funny. Only the cool planeswalkers wear loincloths. It's the top of planeswalker fashion, I hear.
To part of my original point, as someone else brought back up, everyone has new art in their little mugshot except for Liliana. Does this mean Liliana Vess could be the M15 card we get? I think this would be the first time we've gotten an old specific planeswalker card back after years of absence. It would also be an odd choice. Why not make a new version? If they're trying to hide the art for spoiler reasons, why provide new art for everyone else? Why do the lines on her figure stand out so much? What all does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
Ah, they're finally brought Nissa's consume in line with the other planeswalkers! I believe all walkers now have a version that includes a loincloth. I figure there's planeswalker academy and once you graduate you get a thematic loincloth.
I noticed that and thought it was funny. Only the cool planeswalkers wear loincloths. It's the top of planeswalker fashion, I hear.
To part of my original point, as someone else brought back up, everyone has new art in their little mugshot except for Liliana. Does this mean Liliana Vess could be the M15 card we get? I think this would be the first time we've gotten an old specific planeswalker card back after years of absence. It would also be an odd choice. Why not make a new version? If they're trying to hide the art for spoiler reasons, why provide new art for everyone else? Why do the lines on her figure stand out so much? What all does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
Liliana is a seductress! Because 1 in 3 female characters is a seductress. Why not have jace be a date rapist?
Because murder is more acceptable than rape as a theme for a card. MaRo has all but gone on record with that statement - but he could not because one of the two terms is taboo for him.
There is at least one male planeswalker character that could be seductive - unfortunately that character would in the context of these figurines take the exact same spot as Liliana. That's pretty much lies in the archetype of the seductive character being associated with black traits.
Do you Think Nissa outfit is offensive...
i present you:
(note that I cannot see any of your pictures and can follow only part of the links due to some broken code but make an educated guess from the few things that worked)
In isolation you have a good point. A green character could dress like this if it is appropriate to their culture and home - Nissa's home on Zendikar might be quite tropical.
A good example for this might be the humans on Mirrodin - many of them wear revealing clothes to show off their metal growth. Especially the Auriok and Vulshok males often are depicted topless and hence Koth is not a sexualization.
Now refer to my earlier post; I pointed out that checking the illustrations of several Elf cards from Zendikar shows the following:
Male Zendikar Elves are clothed fully - the most revealing is Tajuru Archer
Female Zendikar Elves have about a 50-50 chance of clothing in a reasonable enough attire or some form of bikini.
Nissa's Chosen who surely is a good reference of the male close to her doesn't wear as little fabric as her.
So the race may have already been designed sexist, but is also clearly different from some of the examples you linked to e. g. those where males and females both are topless.
but you forgot Greenweaver Druid A FULLY NAKED MALE ELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did not forget, but could not tell the gender on the lo-resolution image I had available (nor could I tell the level of nudity). Thanks for the larger image.
You are correct about the three tribes, but then you defeat your point:
Groundswell shows Nissas body... and look it is equal to the one in the figure...
It's not about the body, but about the clothes - and she is clearly dressing down from your example. Did Nissa switch tribes?
It might be the pictures, but I am not impressed with the quality. The figurines from Kamigawa did a better job, IMO. That said, this kind of merchandise is right up my alley so if this is a sign of things to come I may open my wallet in the future.
Sorin and Tezz action figures/figurines would make the cut for me.
I wouldn't mind LOTV getting reprinted, although I still don't understand why she's so expensive. That said, an all new Lili would work too. We don't need more of the original or LOTDR.
Yo, Kelly. I'm not too deep into Liliana's background, but it seems like she easily could be gettin it on with ladies all the time. Like, just because there isn't a story that explicitly references that, doesn't mean that it doesn't or couldn't happen. I'm sure she's done lots of stuff that hasn't been specifically addressed.
On Nissa: Yes she is clearly designed with a standard of Western beauty in mind, I hadn't really thought about how messed up that is. Thanks for pointing that out. Although that could easily be justified because no one is marketing MtG to indigenous tribes. i.e. Western standard of beauty for an audience with a Western standard of beauty.
But far more importantly:
I would like a reprint of LotV. It's not a particularly overpowered card in standard. It's really strong with Waste Not and Thoughtseize and co. but like, would it really warp the format at all? Blue devotion's "god-draw" was just as good, and that deck isn't "overpowered" at all.
It's not about the body, but about the clothes - and she is clearly dressing down from your example. Did Nissa switch tribes?
I'm sorry, do you own one outfit? I for one wear different clothes depending on the weather or my mood or whatever. Maybe Nissa feels more confident when she wears her "new" outfit. Maybe it's just cold out on the day she groundswelled. Maybe belonging to a tribe of indigenous people doesn't automatically pigeonhole you to wearing a single "traditional" outfit.
This discussion is almost as comical as the boob-armor debate.
Kelly, please explain to me, and provide evidence, proving that the art portrayal of females in MTG is overly misogynist as compared to the societal norm.
Its not anymore or less misogynistic than the societal norm. That's the problem.
So take your qualms up with societal leaders, since there in-lies the problem.
Attraction is not hard coded into genetics. The only way you could think that is if you completely ignore non-western, non-heterosexual people altogether.
Also
I'm sorry, do you own one outfit? I for one wear different clothes depending on the weather or my mood or whatever. Maybe Nissa feels more confident when she wears her "new" outfit. Maybe it's just cold out on the day she groundswelled. Maybe belonging to a tribe of indigenous people doesn't automatically pigeonhole you to wearing a single "traditional" outfit.
Come on now, this is the world of fantasy games. Following your argument we should've had a lot of different designs for each of the neowalkers in each expansion appearance if that was the case.
It might be the pictures, but I am not impressed with the quality. The figurines from Kamigawa did a better job, IMO. That said, this kind of merchandise is right up my alley so if this is a sign of things to come I may open my wallet in the future.
Sorin and Tezz action figures/figurines would make the cut for me.
Because the quality is indeed not going to be that phenomenal given the price point (I think they will be the same around $20 ?). The consolation would just be that they're poseable. Just hoping that they won't be the kind of plastic that's overly sensitive to hot temperature.
Can't blame WOTC if they're just trying the waters for now with these things. Would've liked if they paired with PLAY ARTS KAI, SH FIGUARTS or GOOD SMILE... (Get them Japanese connections on WOTC!)
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Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
Also
I'm sorry, do you own one outfit? I for one wear different clothes depending on the weather or my mood or whatever. Maybe Nissa feels more confident when she wears her "new" outfit. Maybe it's just cold out on the day she groundswelled. Maybe belonging to a tribe of indigenous people doesn't automatically pigeonhole you to wearing a single "traditional" outfit.
Come on now, this is the world of fantasy games. Following your argument we should've had a lot of different designs for each of the neowalkers in each expansion appearance if that was the case.
It might be the pictures, but I am not impressed with the quality. The figurines from Kamigawa did a better job, IMO. That said, this kind of merchandise is right up my alley so if this is a sign of things to come I may open my wallet in the future.
Sorin and Tezz action figures/figurines would make the cut for me.
Because the quality is indeed not going to be that phenomenal given the price point (I think they will be the same around $20 ?). The consolation would just be that they're poseable. Just hoping that they won't be the kind of plastic that's overly sensitive to hot temperature.
Can't blame WOTC if they're just trying the waters for now with these things. Would've liked if they paired with PLAY ARTS KAI, SH FIGUARTS or GOOD SMILE... (Get them Japanese connections on WOTC!)
well...
when sarkhan was in Jund he was like this:
when he was waiting on the eye ( a +- cold mountain) he was like:
Well, maybe this will get us on track again. I, for one, am excited that we may get four new planeswalkers if the art pans out to be for the cards. That would make the set more buyable for me since it isn't full of a bunch of reprints. I seriously wonder what they will do with Garruk too. Mono-green, mono-black, and G/B all seem plausible, mono-green being the least likely. I know the Lorwyn five are popular or at least people claim they are popular, but I would love to see a base set with only new planeswalkers. That would be sweet!
If the portraits are truly indication of whether they'll have old cards or new, I'm happy about Chandra. As sad as I am about Lily.
Pyromaster is very solid.
While I've never thought her 0 is great, it is still good, and does belong on the card. Her +1 is truly where it's at, for me.
I think it is because she represents a good standard for a red planeswalker that she should be reprinted to death. She should be accessible.
I think LotV is on the same level, as far as being an exemplary planeswalker for the color alignment goes. I don't think her lor5 version cuts it these days.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
This is pretty baseless, but I have this feeling that the sole MtG SDCC exclusive item this year will involve these little guys and not cards of any sort. I really do hope so, solely so I can happily ignore them.
Just for some baseless optimism-
Perhaps it will indeed be Liliana of the Veil in M15.
I wouldn't be surprised if the artwork for LotV was deemed too racy to put on a product that will be in Toys R Us,
and Liliana Vess may be a choice less likely to get angry emails/phone calls.
Not at all likely I know,
but reprinting Vess is also a very strange, unprecedented thing to do.
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It bothers me that people presume that Standard can't have nice things.
On the contrary, Standard should have all the available nice things possible. Just because it's Standard doesn't mean it needs to be a dumbed-down pauper-like format. Standard should be able to have cool/strong interactions, as long as they are balanced respectively with everything else that people can do in the format.
i.e. I'd say your scenario would hardly be broken in a Standard format with cards like Loxodon Smiter.
p.s. Liliana of the Veil wasn't really that OP in Standard to begin with. Considering the mechanic she was best at fighting - Hexproof decks - still didn't stop Bant Hexproof from being one of the top played decks at the time.
As for the figurines, they are made by a 3rd party source so we can't really be sure if they are indicative of what's coming in M15 anyways.
RWUZedruu, the GreatheartedRWU
But to the OPs original point, I'd love if these new portrait icons were indicative of new planeswalker cards in M15. A new Jace is LONG overdue. Based on their appearances, Garruk and Nissa are getting new versions for sure. Chandra's latest version is fine and needs reprinting. Ajani could use a new version, although I wouldn't say it's nearly as vital as replacing Liliana of the Dark Realms, and I think seeing Liliana Vess again would be fine.
(Though I'd like to point out that all of the planeswalker portraits have traces of their walker's color, and there's no green in Garruk's)
As for the figures themselves, I'm a big fan. I'm partial to Ajani and Chandra. Although I have to say, some of the faces look a little off - and Nissa's eyes look eerie and soulless.
liliana didn t played during scars - innistrad standard cause of delver decks and other good stuff decks like GW , then in inistrad -RTR we first got an agro RB that got turn 4 kill too often ( droping lili would give you an extra turn of life but end with 3 or 4 life... and then in RTR-innistrad bant control toke the spot ( also thragtusk wad dominant in the formart) later we got bant hexproof that even if you played lili she would get killed soon, and the jund decks that didnt played her cause there was better options like garruk
Lili of the veil is a control card or agressive disruption ( and simetrical half the times) soo not all the decks did wanted to test her
with waste not it would be arkward cause she would nevver be simetrical , she wuld always grant you somekind of advantage , this with T1:thoughtseize to disrupt early plays and then having alock (discard and gain advantage, your opponent would have to play every thing he draws or give you more advantaage )(and with ili in play it woldn t be that dificult to just kill every creature your op plays...)
T1: discrad any nonland T2; wastenot T3:lilioftheveil, is strong YES
She started out very popular due to Unburial Rights, in a Solar Pox style deck, but the deck quickly turned out to be underwhelming for the most part. She didn't see play for a long time and dropped to like 15$ before climbing back up slowly.
She's a solid card, but she's by no means too good, especially when Flashback/Scavenge isn't around.
Oh... Ok... Clearly.
Anyway...
I'm curious to see if Ajani is in M15, I mean he only just got a new card in Journey Into Nyx, so it'd be weird if he got a new card so soon.
The Jace art actually looks cool, but it's Jace so ehhhh.
A reprint of Liliana Vess would be an... interesting choice, not one I'd expect, but I suppose it's better than another Lili of the Dark Realms.
I sorta hope Nissa get's a new card and role in the story, Doug has given hints about where he thinks her character development might be headed, and I'm actually super keen to see more of her now.
Chandra, Pyromaster is cool, so a reprint wouldn't be so bad, I'd also love to see more Chandra in the storyline, but then again, she's one of my favorite 'Walkers, so you know :3
Garruk... I really can't wait to see what they do with you card-wise... my curiosity is piqued.
I noticed that and thought it was funny. Only the cool planeswalkers wear loincloths. It's the top of planeswalker fashion, I hear.
To part of my original point, as someone else brought back up, everyone has new art in their little mugshot except for Liliana. Does this mean Liliana Vess could be the M15 card we get? I think this would be the first time we've gotten an old specific planeswalker card back after years of absence. It would also be an odd choice. Why not make a new version? If they're trying to hide the art for spoiler reasons, why provide new art for everyone else? Why do the lines on her figure stand out so much? What all does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
WWWA White mage if you ever saw one.WWW
Liliana Vess would play well with both Waste Not and Gray Merchant of Asphodel...
Because murder is more acceptable than rape as a theme for a card. MaRo has all but gone on record with that statement - but he could not because one of the two terms is taboo for him.
There is at least one male planeswalker character that could be seductive - unfortunately that character would in the context of these figurines take the exact same spot as Liliana. That's pretty much lies in the archetype of the seductive character being associated with black traits.
EDIT:
(note that I cannot see any of your pictures and can follow only part of the links due to some broken code but make an educated guess from the few things that worked)
In isolation you have a good point. A green character could dress like this if it is appropriate to their culture and home - Nissa's home on Zendikar might be quite tropical.
A good example for this might be the humans on Mirrodin - many of them wear revealing clothes to show off their metal growth. Especially the Auriok and Vulshok males often are depicted topless and hence Koth is not a sexualization.
Now refer to my earlier post; I pointed out that checking the illustrations of several Elf cards from Zendikar shows the following:
So the race may have already been designed sexist, but is also clearly different from some of the examples you linked to e. g. those where males and females both are topless.
EDIT2:
I did not forget, but could not tell the gender on the lo-resolution image I had available (nor could I tell the level of nudity). Thanks for the larger image.
You are correct about the three tribes, but then you defeat your point:
It's not about the body, but about the clothes - and she is clearly dressing down from your example. Did Nissa switch tribes?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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Sorin and Tezz action figures/figurines would make the cut for me.
I wouldn't mind LOTV getting reprinted, although I still don't understand why she's so expensive. That said, an all new Lili would work too. We don't need more of the original or LOTDR.
On Nissa: Yes she is clearly designed with a standard of Western beauty in mind, I hadn't really thought about how messed up that is. Thanks for pointing that out. Although that could easily be justified because no one is marketing MtG to indigenous tribes. i.e. Western standard of beauty for an audience with a Western standard of beauty.
But far more importantly:
I would like a reprint of LotV. It's not a particularly overpowered card in standard. It's really strong with Waste Not and Thoughtseize and co. but like, would it really warp the format at all? Blue devotion's "god-draw" was just as good, and that deck isn't "overpowered" at all.
I'm sorry, do you own one outfit? I for one wear different clothes depending on the weather or my mood or whatever. Maybe Nissa feels more confident when she wears her "new" outfit. Maybe it's just cold out on the day she groundswelled. Maybe belonging to a tribe of indigenous people doesn't automatically pigeonhole you to wearing a single "traditional" outfit.
So take your qualms up with societal leaders, since there in-lies the problem. Except the part where male and female pheromones are uniquely biological methods of attraction, whereas our genetics impact which pheromones cause arousal and which ones don't.
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro06/web1/dmarck.html
http://www.sirc.org/publik/smell_attract.html
Come on now, this is the world of fantasy games. Following your argument we should've had a lot of different designs for each of the neowalkers in each expansion appearance if that was the case.
Because the quality is indeed not going to be that phenomenal given the price point (I think they will be the same around $20 ?). The consolation would just be that they're poseable. Just hoping that they won't be the kind of plastic that's overly sensitive to hot temperature.
Can't blame WOTC if they're just trying the waters for now with these things. Would've liked if they paired with PLAY ARTS KAI, SH FIGUARTS or GOOD SMILE... (Get them Japanese connections on WOTC!)
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
well...
when sarkhan was in Jund he was like this:
when he was waiting on the eye ( a +- cold mountain) he was like:
Enter the Eldrazi
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Multiverse/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature2/86a#
Also Chandra's outfit in Fuel for the Fire
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Multiverse/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature2/1705#
and in Awakenings and Journey to the Eye
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Multiverse/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature2/56a#
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Multiverse/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature2/83b#
And Garruk even being cursed got time to change clothes ...
EDIT:
wowreading these comics now i know from where the Hedron piece sarkhan is using in his staf comes from
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Multiverse/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature2/86a#
from the Eye of UGIN
This just shows that Nissa's outfit change has close to no official reason behind it at the moment apart from ideas out of thin air.
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
Guys it's a fantasy game. The planeswalkers are fantasy tropes. There's way better causes for the SJW crowd.
Pyromaster is very solid.
While I've never thought her 0 is great, it is still good, and does belong on the card. Her +1 is truly where it's at, for me.
I think it is because she represents a good standard for a red planeswalker that she should be reprinted to death. She should be accessible.
I think LotV is on the same level, as far as being an exemplary planeswalker for the color alignment goes. I don't think her lor5 version cuts it these days.
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10/10, I tapped.
Perhaps it will indeed be Liliana of the Veil in M15.
I wouldn't be surprised if the artwork for LotV was deemed too racy to put on a product that will be in Toys R Us,
and Liliana Vess may be a choice less likely to get angry emails/phone calls.
Not at all likely I know,
but reprinting Vess is also a very strange, unprecedented thing to do.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
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WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW