Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Tribal can still exist without Tribal as a type of card. Tribal as a theme (not a card type) seems unlikely to appear in Khans though. I can see dragons, but that's unlikely to be a tribal thing so much as just a general theme of dragons in either the second or third set (possibly both).
I can see maybe a bit of tribal action as sets often have (monks seem important and they have yet to receive any tribal support), but a set has to be very heavily tribal for the dual lands to trigger off creature tribes. Not only does MaRo regret that extent, we would have heard some indication of this direction by now.
I'm guessing that since Orcs are returning, that a smattering of Orc-tribal will be present. Perhaps not as much as Minotaurs in Theros, but I guess that they will throw in at least a lord or two, like they did for centaurs with Pheres-Band Warchief.
They seem to acknowledge that there is a casual demand for tribal anything, and I think that if a kitchen-table orc-deck (vintage legal) is not thrown a bone or two, there will be a lot of disappointment.
I see no reason why we should be seeing creature tribe-themed lands in Tarkir.
MaRo hates tribal, don't ask me why but he really doesn't like creature types being added to non creature cards. He thinks its one of the reasons Lorwyn did badly. Me, I love creature type lands because it gives me an excuse to play tribal decks in casual.
EDIT: Also forgot to mention but MaRo said we already had a tribal block, so it would be pretty soon to have another. For those wondering our tribal block was Innistrad apparently, if one is to agree with MaRo. I don't consider it tribal like Lorwyn but who am I?
He doesn't hate tribal, in fact he likes tribal. He doesn't even really hate the tribal type, it just was a whole lot of rules buggering with not much pay off. Goblin Grenade and Feast of Blood feel more like tribal cards because you can't even cast them without the specific creature type out. Tacking on Tribal and Goblin or Vampire doesn't do anything to make it seem like that tribes specific magic. Take Tarfire for example. It just Shock with the Goblin subtype. Nothing about it feels goblin like because both it and Shock can be cast by anyone regardless of tribe. Even things like the tribal lands you mentioned and things like Blood Tribute are ok because even though anyone can use them their much better with the associated tribe. Tribal is about creature not non-creature. The non-creature things should only be castable or better with their tribe. Just taking a land that taps for green and adding Tribal-Treefolk is incredibly lazy and unflavorful. Making it become a green treefolk creature until end of turn or under certain conditions actually makes it part of the tribe and adds the flavor of said treefolk getting up and taking action.
Tarkir has seems to have far to many races to have any kind of noticeable tribal focus. At most we might get an orc lord for nostalgia and im thinking we may get a BG snake reducer in Sultai like Edgewalker & Ragemonger.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Tarfire is a bad example as this card feels very tribal due to the fact that it can be tutored up by Golin Matron thanks to the tribal. Same for Lin Sivvi and Crib Swap.
The problem is not that Tribal-typed cards don't "feel" tribal, the problem is the line between what gets the Tribal type and what doesn't is totally arbitrary and has no connection with how tribal it "feels". If Tribal had been part of the game since the beginning, MaRo would have no problem with it.
I don't see how this is the least bit relevant to Murmuring Bosk, though, because I don't know if you guys have noticed but the Lorwyn lands were not Tribal type. I suspect the reason was similar to the lack of an Enchantment Land in Theros. It also speaks to the argument that the application of the Tribal type is arbitrary when everyone's assuming that they have it even though they don't.
Tarfire is a bad example as this card feels very tribal due to the fact that it can be tutored up by Golin Matron thanks to the tribal. Same for Lin Sivvi and Crib Swap.
Just wanted to put card tags and say your exemple with lin sivvi doenst work
on the Subject of tribal i m with those who think its fine but need to make cense, Like why Tarfire is a goblin? it would make sence if it tapped a goblin and dealt more damege ...
The most recently exemple is All Is Dust that feels very Eldrazi and soo is fine and nice as a tribal
i found an interesting tidbit of information about Sarkhan, he is from Mardu, and Zurgo Helmsmasher have a vendetta againt him (Sarkhan).
i don't know if someone already mentioned this or not, since i won't be reading 46 pages.
here it goes:
"Zurgo Helmsmasher is a vicious orc who has a vendetta against Sarkhan Vol who, as a Mardu general, sacrificed all his men when he ascended as a planeswalker."
Wizards print good rares, players complain about cash grab. They print underwhelming rares, players complain that the cards suck. They spoil the best cards first, players complain about the insane prices of preorders. They spoil the meh cards first, players complain that this is the worst set ever.
So. I think I understand now.
As far as these forums are concerned, WotC can never do anything good because:
Card that is new and probably good = "pushed"
Card that is new and probably bad = "EDH/casual fodder"
Card that is a reprint = "lazy"
Card that is a better version of an older card = "power creep"
Card that is a weaker version of an older card = "worthless"
i found an interesting tidbit of information about Sarkhan, he is from Mardu, and Zurgo Helmsmasher have a vendetta againt him (Sarkhan).
i don't know if someone already mentioned this or not, since i won't be reading 46 pages.
here it goes:
"Zurgo Helmsmasher is a vicious orc who has a vendetta against Sarkhan Vol who, as a Mardu general, sacrificed all his men when he ascended as a planeswalker."
In the first post i think it has more info you will like ( As well as art for the 5 khans art for a "soldier" of each clan and other useful information.
Tarfire is a bad example as this card feels very tribal due to the fact that it can be tutored up by Golin Matron thanks to the tribal. Same for Lin Sivvi and Crib Swap.
Tarfire is a perfect example. It only interacts with at most five cards from its tribe. It just a Shock with goblin attached to it. It doesn't make people go 'Oh this totally feels like it something only goblins would do.' Goblin Grenade fully fits in with goblins doing stupid things that lead to them getting killed, usually exploded, and can interact with all but three goblin cards yet cant be tutored by Goblin Matron. Now if you had used Fodder Launch you would have had a better counter point. Even Boggart Birth Rite interacts well with its tribe. Tarfire is one of the cards from Lorwyn that proves just taking on a creature type to non-creatures, instants and sorceries in particular, 'just because' is a bad idea.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
EX.
Zendikar block - world wake rise of eldrazi
lorwyn - commands, good generals, powerful modern cards
shadowmoore- powerful modern cards
even new phyrexia
I feel like it will be and FNM will be more exiting than ever
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[center][color=Blue]
U/R Delver
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
17 days isn't that bad sounding. A little under three weeks/over two weeks is manageable. I'm going to need to try and get signed up for the prerelease of this. It's going to be an amazing block, at least on a personal level.
Maybe not exactly a Murmuring Bosk cycle (mostly because of the tribal element and the fact that Abzan's primary color is white, not green). But I could totally see a cycle like this:
Abzan Pain-Wedge-Land
Land - Plains
( : Add to your mana pool)
: Add or to your mana pool. CARDNAME deals 1 damage to you.
It would explain why checklands were originally going to be in the core set over the pain lands. Maybe this land cycle would have to enter tapped (I'm not sure if it's too powerful in the form I presented it), but that is a minor difference.
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STANDARD: UWHeroicUW
MODERN: WBRBurnWBR WUBRAd NauseamWUBR
EDH: BROlivia VoldarenBR GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR UTromokratisU WUBrago, King EternalWU BGNath of the Gilt LeafBG RStarke of RathR WBRZurgo HelmsmasherWBR GWGaddock TeegGW
Maybe this land cycle would have to enter tapped (I'm not sure if it's too powerful in the form I presented it), but that is a minor difference.
Yeah, either that or some other drawback. One of the "rules" for lands is that they aren't allowed to be "strictly better" than basic lands (i.e. tapping for C with some upside and no drawback is not allowed).
Maybe not exactly a Murmuring Bosk cycle (mostly because of the tribal element and the fact that Abzan's primary color is white, not green). But I could totally see a cycle like this:
Abzan Pain-Wedge-Land
Land - Plains
( : Add to your mana pool)
: Add or to your mana pool. CARDNAME deals 1 damage to you.
It would explain why checklands were originally going to be in the core set over the pain lands. Maybe this land cycle would have to enter tapped (I'm not sure if it's too powerful in the form I presented it), but that is a minor difference.
Those would replace shocks in some Modern decks. Maybe all of them. Being fetchable is huge, tapping for three different colors is huge, and etb untapped with no downside is huge.
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*Insert giant block of annoying garbage that no one cares about but you have to scroll past anyway here*
Maybe not exactly a Murmuring Bosk cycle (mostly because of the tribal element and the fact that Abzan's primary color is white, not green). But I could totally see a cycle like this:
Abzan Pain-Wedge-Land
Land - Plains
( : Add to your mana pool)
: Add or to your mana pool. CARDNAME deals 1 damage to you.
It would explain why checklands were originally going to be in the core set over the pain lands. Maybe this land cycle would have to enter tapped (I'm not sure if it's too powerful in the form I presented it), but that is a minor difference.
Those would replace shocks in some Modern decks. Maybe all of them. Being fetchable is huge, tapping for three different colors is huge, and etb untapped with no downside is huge.
They would necessarily enter tapped (or have some other drawback, but that's the most likely) because otherwise they'd be strictly better than the very lands they just put in M15. You're right that Steve has drastically underestimated how big a difference entering tapped is.
More likely they will just add Wedge lands that ETB tapped like the existing Trilands. Arcane Sanctum
I think so too, but I hope they will be at uncommon with a cycle of duals at rare.
But if we are designing triple painlands, how about this?
Abzan Painland T:Add 1 to your mana pool. T, pay one life: Add W to your mana pool. T, pay two life: Add B or G to your mana pool.
EDIT: It's pretty crappy, but I think it is about as good as I can make it if I want it to: ETB untapped, not be strictly better than either the old 2-colour painlands or a basic land; and having the drawbacks be pain-based.
Abzan Painland T:Add 1 to your mana pool. T, pay one life: Add W to your mana pool. T, pay two life: Add B or G to your mana pool.
EDIT: It's pretty crappy, but I think it is about as good as I can make it if I want it to: ETB untapped, not be strictly better than either the old 2-colour painlands or a basic land; and having the drawbacks be pain-based.
Might be a little to much pain, considering that they would be in the same standard rotation as the original pain lands.
I've always loved lands that produced a color on its own, but had some sort of requirement to become able to produce multiple colors. Ideas I've messed around with as proxies in some custom cubes:
Jeskai Finicky-land T: Add U to your mana pool. T: Add W or R to your mana pool. (You can't activate this ability during your first, second, or third turns of the game.)
The big problem with this style of land is that often times the best land base was running all of these lands, even if only one of the secondary colors were on color.
Jeskai Homeland T: Add U to your mana pool. 1, T: Add 1W to your mana pool. U, T: Add 1R to your mana pool.
The idea here is that the land produces on color for free, filters for friendly color easily through colorless, and filters for enemy color with the added restriction of needing to use the clans main color to do this. This setup also comes with its own system of checks and balances, in that (With Jeskai as an example) the other two lands that produce an on color mana for free would be from the Abzan and Mardu. In the case of the Azban both secondaries are worthless, and in the case of the Mardu only the enemy color is on color for Jeskai thus allowing it to function as a R/W land.
My favorite idea however, was morphlands.
Jeskai Morphland T: Add U to your mana pool. T: Add W to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if Jeskai Morphland has a "plains" counter on it. T: Add R to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if Jeskai Morphland has an "mountain" counter on it.
When Abzan Morphland is turned face up, put a "plains" counter on it if W was spent to morph it and a "mountain" counter on it if R was spent to morph it.
Morph X(You may cast this face down as a 2/2 creature for 3. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.)
Completely impracticable, but man are they fun. And the fact that you would run a bunch of them in a single list gives a solid foundation of morph cards to hide your better morph cards among.
Yeah, I figured my speculation would be too powerful and that ETB tapped wouldn't be much of a downside. I didn't know a good downside to put on it to balance it out. But does the basic framework sound like something they could do (obviously, there would be a significant drawback)?
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STANDARD: UWHeroicUW
MODERN: WBRBurnWBR WUBRAd NauseamWUBR
EDH: BROlivia VoldarenBR GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR UTromokratisU WUBrago, King EternalWU BGNath of the Gilt LeafBG RStarke of RathR WBRZurgo HelmsmasherWBR GWGaddock TeegGW
Also, on the product page, I found these two new pictures. Nothing terribly exciting, but since we are all starving for new info, I thought I'd post it.
ATTACHMENTS
6
Yep, that's a cat
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They've already revealed some land art for Khans,
and it isn't the right aspect ratio to be full-framed
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
They seem to acknowledge that there is a casual demand for tribal anything, and I think that if a kitchen-table orc-deck (vintage legal) is not thrown a bone or two, there will be a lot of disappointment.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
He doesn't hate tribal, in fact he likes tribal. He doesn't even really hate the tribal type, it just was a whole lot of rules buggering with not much pay off. Goblin Grenade and Feast of Blood feel more like tribal cards because you can't even cast them without the specific creature type out. Tacking on Tribal and Goblin or Vampire doesn't do anything to make it seem like that tribes specific magic. Take Tarfire for example. It just Shock with the Goblin subtype. Nothing about it feels goblin like because both it and Shock can be cast by anyone regardless of tribe. Even things like the tribal lands you mentioned and things like Blood Tribute are ok because even though anyone can use them their much better with the associated tribe. Tribal is about creature not non-creature. The non-creature things should only be castable or better with their tribe. Just taking a land that taps for green and adding Tribal-Treefolk is incredibly lazy and unflavorful. Making it become a green treefolk creature until end of turn or under certain conditions actually makes it part of the tribe and adds the flavor of said treefolk getting up and taking action.
Tarkir has seems to have far to many races to have any kind of noticeable tribal focus. At most we might get an orc lord for nostalgia and im thinking we may get a BG snake reducer in Sultai like Edgewalker & Ragemonger.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
The problem is not that Tribal-typed cards don't "feel" tribal, the problem is the line between what gets the Tribal type and what doesn't is totally arbitrary and has no connection with how tribal it "feels". If Tribal had been part of the game since the beginning, MaRo would have no problem with it.
I don't see how this is the least bit relevant to Murmuring Bosk, though, because I don't know if you guys have noticed but the Lorwyn lands were not Tribal type. I suspect the reason was similar to the lack of an Enchantment Land in Theros. It also speaks to the argument that the application of the Tribal type is arbitrary when everyone's assuming that they have it even though they don't.
Just wanted to put card tags and say your exemple with lin sivvi doenst work
on the Subject of tribal i m with those who think its fine but need to make cense, Like why Tarfire is a goblin? it would make sence if it tapped a goblin and dealt more damege ...
The most recently exemple is All Is Dust that feels very Eldrazi and soo is fine and nice as a tribal
i don't know if someone already mentioned this or not, since i won't be reading 46 pages.
here it goes:
"Zurgo Helmsmasher is a vicious orc who has a vendetta against Sarkhan Vol who, as a Mardu general, sacrificed all his men when he ascended as a planeswalker."
taken from:
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Mardu_Horde
Sorry bro its old info...
It was talked on the SCC painel.
In the first post i think it has more info you will like ( As well as art for the 5 khans art for a "soldier" of each clan and other useful information.
PEACE !
bro
EDIT: and Sarkhan Was from Mardu...before.
Tarfire is a perfect example. It only interacts with at most five cards from its tribe. It just a Shock with goblin attached to it. It doesn't make people go 'Oh this totally feels like it something only goblins would do.' Goblin Grenade fully fits in with goblins doing stupid things that lead to them getting killed, usually exploded, and can interact with all but three goblin cards yet cant be tutored by Goblin Matron. Now if you had used Fodder Launch you would have had a better counter point. Even Boggart Birth Rite interacts well with its tribe. Tarfire is one of the cards from Lorwyn that proves just taking on a creature type to non-creatures, instants and sorceries in particular, 'just because' is a bad idea.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
in 17 days
I just can't hide it,
I'm about to lose control and I think I like it,
I'm so excited,
I just can't hide it
And I know, I know, I know, I want you, Khans of Tarkir, I want you
Yay- hopefully that's long enough for the new M15 PWs to dip in price
before some of them resurge as strong players in the new Standard.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
EX.
Zendikar block - world wake rise of eldrazi
lorwyn - commands, good generals, powerful modern cards
shadowmoore- powerful modern cards
even new phyrexia
I feel like it will be and FNM will be more exiting than ever
[center][color=Blue]
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
Abzan Pain-Wedge-Land
Land - Plains
( : Add to your mana pool)
: Add or to your mana pool. CARDNAME deals 1 damage to you.
It would explain why checklands were originally going to be in the core set over the pain lands. Maybe this land cycle would have to enter tapped (I'm not sure if it's too powerful in the form I presented it), but that is a minor difference.
UWHeroicUW
MODERN:
WBRBurnWBR
WUBRAd NauseamWUBR
EDH:
BROlivia VoldarenBR
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
UTromokratisU
WUBrago, King EternalWU
BGNath of the Gilt LeafBG
RStarke of RathR
WBRZurgo HelmsmasherWBR
GWGaddock TeegGW
Yeah, either that or some other drawback. One of the "rules" for lands is that they aren't allowed to be "strictly better" than basic lands (i.e. tapping for C with some upside and no drawback is not allowed).
"Dragons of Tarkir" is a name they have trademarked that would indeed give strong hints about the story..
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Those would replace shocks in some Modern decks. Maybe all of them. Being fetchable is huge, tapping for three different colors is huge, and etb untapped with no downside is huge.
They would necessarily enter tapped (or have some other drawback, but that's the most likely) because otherwise they'd be strictly better than the very lands they just put in M15. You're right that Steve has drastically underestimated how big a difference entering tapped is.
I think so too, but I hope they will be at uncommon with a cycle of duals at rare.
But if we are designing triple painlands, how about this?
EDIT: It's pretty crappy, but I think it is about as good as I can make it if I want it to: ETB untapped, not be strictly better than either the old 2-colour painlands or a basic land; and having the drawbacks be pain-based.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
I've always loved lands that produced a color on its own, but had some sort of requirement to become able to produce multiple colors. Ideas I've messed around with as proxies in some custom cubes: The big problem with this style of land is that often times the best land base was running all of these lands, even if only one of the secondary colors were on color.
Another idea was to make strictly better versions of the Homelands "filter lands": The idea here is that the land produces on color for free, filters for friendly color easily through colorless, and filters for enemy color with the added restriction of needing to use the clans main color to do this. This setup also comes with its own system of checks and balances, in that (With Jeskai as an example) the other two lands that produce an on color mana for free would be from the Abzan and Mardu. In the case of the Azban both secondaries are worthless, and in the case of the Mardu only the enemy color is on color for Jeskai thus allowing it to function as a R/W land.
My favorite idea however, was morphlands. Completely impracticable, but man are they fun. And the fact that you would run a bunch of them in a single list gives a solid foundation of morph cards to hide your better morph cards among.
UWHeroicUW
MODERN:
WBRBurnWBR
WUBRAd NauseamWUBR
EDH:
BROlivia VoldarenBR
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
UTromokratisU
WUBrago, King EternalWU
BGNath of the Gilt LeafBG
RStarke of RathR
WBRZurgo HelmsmasherWBR
GWGaddock TeegGW
Also, on the product page, I found these two new pictures. Nothing terribly exciting, but since we are all starving for new info, I thought I'd post it.