From the video, for the Hidden Agendas each one had a post-it note on it face down start of game, seems like a good way to do it.
For the Construct... put your previous round of draft off to one side for easy memory... and then write it on a post-it note?
This honestly does not feel too hard to do.
While that sounds simple enough, for any event with prizes on the line, people have an incentive to cheat. Maybe you say you drafted this guy 7th pick instead of 6th. If you write something ambiguous on the post it note, how do we decide what you meant? This set requires record keeping during the draft, which is unusual, but also requires secret information to be recorded at the start of each match. This is going to be a judges nightmare.
From the video, for the Hidden Agendas each one had a post-it note on it face down start of game, seems like a good way to do it.
For the Construct... put your previous round of draft off to one side for easy memory... and then write it on a post-it note?
This honestly does not feel too hard to do.
While that sounds simple enough, for any event with prizes on the line, people have an incentive to cheat. Maybe you say you drafted this guy 7th pick instead of 6th. If you write something ambiguous on the post it note, how do we decide what you meant? This set requires record keeping during the draft, which is unusual, but also requires secret information to be recorded at the start of each match. This is going to be a judges nightmare.
1. Drafted in Pods of eight, unless all seven people decide to suddenly not pay attention when you announce a card you are drafting that you are REQUIRED TO ANNOUNCE.
2. If you are doing anything with prizes you're going to be keeping records anyway, since the most recent change disallows the use of electronic devices meaning the only assured way to keep track of life is PEN AND PAPER. So you'd be keeping notes anyway.
3. If you're this worried about it, don't draft this with prizes on the line, play for fun. And only for fun.
4. If you're this worried about the judges, give them a nice fruit basket after the event ends.
It looks like I'm definitely doing a cube for this, and take some of the extras to build into a different one.
Each box I buy, I am going to log each pack and use them to create a draft cube. I'll post the box contents in the other forum.
Looking to use this as a home only set (like how I use my Planechase 2012 set). Would be fun to run a draft with my brother or pack wars. If they include full art lands, I will remove those from the packs for my cube.
I like how the conspiracy cards look like a rolled up scroll with the conspiracy set logo as a seal for the scroll...just a little added flavor. this is definately looking like a fun, unique set and i think it will drive many people into the cube building world...it has me interested at least.
so with all that was said in that draft of conspiracy video can you with two Cogwork Librarian drafted and unused and a Lurking Automaton in the pack, can you basicly make infinite pulls from that pack and make it whatever size you want?
so with all that was said in that draft of conspiracy video can you with two Cogwork Librarian drafted and unused and a Lurking Automaton in the pack, can you basicly make infinite pulls from that pack and make it whatever size you want?
I doubt it.
They may add a line to the draft rules a little to specify that when choosing multiple cards you make all decisions simultaneously.
A few more cards that were either talked about or seen in the video:
Academy Elite
Bite of the Black Rose
Brago's Representative
Cinder Wall
Noble Templar
Shoreline Ranger
Also with Noble Templar, Chartooth Cougar and Shoreline Ranger, I think its safe to assume Twisted Abomination and Wirewood Guardian are in as well.
I expect Bite of the Black Rose to be a conspiracy, though it has a bit of a strange name for it. We have Brago's Favor and Muzzio's (the guy in Napoleonic hat) Preparations. I expect Marchesa (the Black Rose), Selvala and the last legend to have one "named" conspiracy each.
Then again, with Brago's Representative, there will possibly be legend-associated spells, this may just be some kind of a removal spell.
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Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Ok what if we don't know 8 people that play magic casually AND want to pay a lot of money to casually draft for a multiplayer format? You really can't play this in a tournament setting, I can't imagine a store getting enough people to play competitive multiplayer since really the person with the most friends can just team up on non-friend players and decide before hand they'll split their prizes equally. I don't see how you actually play this format.
Do you really want a 35 card deck in a multiplayer format where games can go notoriously long? EDH has 100 cards for a reason.
Ok so you write the secret card on a post it note while people watch or does everyone have to look away while you do this?
And you really made a poor argument for adding an extra booster to the draft. Ok so you add a booster, the rare bomb isn't in your colors so you either you hate draft it and basically wasted money, or you just made someone else's deck a lot better. I fear no one can contextually evaluate cards anymore.
And you didn't explain how the automoton would work smoothly. When you draft each player can be easily be a different number of cards deep into the draft, especially if packs are stacking up at one or more player, and the only way to prove where you're at is to show your cards faceup. So a judge would in fact need to get involved, and go through all your drafted cards to determine the truth and bring the draft to a screeching halt.
So either you personally know 8 people interested in casual multiplayer that has a fee to play and many of the cards are useless after, or you're in the worst tournament ever?
And you didn't explain how the automoton would work smoothly. When you draft each player can be easily be a different number of cards deep into the draft, especially if packs are stacking up at one or more player, and the only way to prove where you're at is to show your cards faceup. So a judge would in fact need to get involved, and go through all your drafted cards to determine the truth and bring the draft to a screeching halt.
You have to draft the automaton face up anyways. When you do, just count the number of cards you've drafted so far.
P.S: Also, I think, this set may just not be for you, if you think about it so competitively.
Ok what if we don't know 8 people that play magic casually AND want to pay a lot of money to casually draft for a multiplayer format? You really can't play this in a tournament setting, I can't imagine a store getting enough people to play competitive multiplayer since really the person with the most friends can just team up on non-friend players and decide before hand they'll split their prizes equally. I don't see how you actually play this format.
Yes, that's a concern, I guess. My friends and I like to undermine each other at every turn so I don't normally think of playing friendly with them. So... don't draft Conspiracy?
Do you really want a 35 card deck in a multiplayer format where games can go notoriously long? EDH has 100 cards for a reason.
EDH goes long for two reasons:
1. 5+ players lead to more complicated board state choices.
2. Singleton format is singleton. The chances of drawing the specific card you want is 1/X where X is the remainder of your library. This means drawing into whatever card you need is INFINITELY harder than 60card. Which is not only a 4/X, but X is a much lower number to boot. In EDH, you would be at a strategic advantage (marginally) to your opponents if your deck was 94 cards instead of 99 cards. The overall impact is much less because the impact is proportional, which is why it's REALLY good in Sealed/Draft where your deck is 7/8ths their deck.
Ok so you write the secret card on a post it note while people watch or does everyone have to look away while you do this?
And you really made a poor argument for adding an extra booster to the draft. Ok so you add a booster, the rare bomb isn't in your colors so you either you hate draft it and basically wasted money, or you just made someone else's deck a lot better. I fear no one can contextually evaluate cards anymore.
Draft is, universally, a risky format, because that is a factor. However, it's a factor that varies between Pack 1 Lore Seeker and Pack 3 Lore Seeker. Which is, you know, the same change between pack 1 goodstuff and pack 3 goodstuff. Since you could have decided to go Red for a Magma Spray in JOU, not grab much in the way of White through it or Born, and open an Elspeth in THS. Which is the exact same situation, only in a different draft format. So... this is different because the mechanic is expressed on a card, and not just as the format itself? Cause that's a problem that can always happen. That's the risk, sometimes your Lore Seeker'd pack of Future Sight is a Goyf, sometime's it's a Barren Glory. If this is a problem, don't draft.
And you didn't explain how the automoton would work smoothly. When you draft each player can be easily be a different number of cards deep into the draft, especially if packs are stacking up at one or more player, and the only way to prove where you're at is to show your cards faceup. So a judge would in fact need to get involved, and go through all your drafted cards to determine the truth and bring the draft to a screeching halt.
I open my second pack (so this is the second round of drafting), and put my first round picks off in a pile to the left hand side of my person. I pick a Fact or Fiction because I'm probably forcing Blue because that's who I am, and put the card face down in front of me on the table. I pick a Conspiracy card as my second pick, because those seem fun, pass the pack, put the card I picked face down next to fact or fiction in front of me. These cards act as a running tally of my picks for these packs. When I pick up the pack with an automaton, which for this example will be sixth pick, I smile, place it face up in front of me with my previous drafted cards in a neat little row next to it, announce in my most dramatic of evil voices, that I've drafted it 6th, the table can confirm this by the fact that I used my evilest voice and there's a row of cards counting it. On top of that, unless I'm the most impulsive person at the table, several other people are probably at or past pick six, to confirm this.
Now if there's a second round using the two winners from the two games of each pod, I suppose there's a judge who can come over and initial my piece of paper (probably a Squirrel token because squirrel tokens are cool) that says "I drafted this sixth, because Iron Plushy insists the rules must be bade, here's proof. Also can't a card game be fun without everyone worrying everyone else has to cheat at a totally life or death children's card game."
So either you personally know 8 people interested in casual multiplayer that has a fee to play and many of the cards are useless after, or you're in the worst tournament ever?
Seven people. Unless you just like to watch. No judgments, that is a viable life choice and I am not judging you.
Ok what if we don't know 8 people that play magic casually AND want to pay a lot of money to casually draft for a multiplayer format? You really can't play this in a tournament setting, I can't imagine a store getting enough people to play competitive multiplayer since really the person with the most friends can just team up on non-friend players and decide before hand they'll split their prizes equally. I don't see how you actually play this format.
Do you really want a 35 card deck in a multiplayer format where games can go notoriously long? EDH has 100 cards for a reason.
Ok so you write the secret card on a post it note while people watch or does everyone have to look away while you do this?
And you really made a poor argument for adding an extra booster to the draft. Ok so you add a booster, the rare bomb isn't in your colors so you either you hate draft it and basically wasted money, or you just made someone else's deck a lot better. I fear no one can contextually evaluate cards anymore.
And you didn't explain how the automoton would work smoothly. When you draft each player can be easily be a different number of cards deep into the draft, especially if packs are stacking up at one or more player, and the only way to prove where you're at is to show your cards faceup. So a judge would in fact need to get involved, and go through all your drafted cards to determine the truth and bring the draft to a screeching halt.
So either you personally know 8 people interested in casual multiplayer that has a fee to play and many of the cards are useless after, or you're in the worst tournament ever?
It's probably best to this of this as a movie, and not as an investment. Playing this is more of an experience. If you can take the cards later and put them in a cube or commander, or trade them to someone else who does, then you'll get more out of your investment.
To me, I want to play this irrespective of prizes. I will hopefully be playing it at my local game store with local people for around 15$ and maybe there will be something for the pod winners - but I don't really care either way. 15$ for a couple of hours of amazing fun is worth it to me.
It might not be worth it to you - which is also fine.
A corollary? How much did you enjoy Unglued and Unhinged? Or perhaps you haven't been playing that long? That is probably the best gauge to whether or not you'll like this.
Nothing in magic has ever beaten the following experience I had at Gen Con. A person asked Mark Rosewater (wearing a chicken suit) who was judging the first ever event of Unglued if they can remove their pants as a fast effect, in response to the declaration of attack by 2 Hurloon Wranglers. The ruling (if I remember correctly) was, yes as long as you have appropriate undergarments.
I've heard so many ppl tell that story in the first person. I never trust them that they were actually there since Maro told that story in an article and a Podcast. I always assume the person is just retelling the story they heard and inserting themselves there. I'm not saying that your lying. Just that I think you and everyone else who tells that story is. I clearly cannot always be right since there were plenty of people there.
Literally hundreds of people were at that event. And there was likely 50 people within ear shot. It was a huge room at the bottom floor of the convention center in Milwaukee. Though I suppose it depends on how "first person" you mean. I was across the aisle, the guy was one match in from the aisle - so I was pretty close. His boxers were blue and red. Dunno if you've gotten those same details
Ok what if we don't know 8 people that play magic casually AND want to pay a lot of money to casually draft for a multiplayer format? You really can't play this in a tournament setting, I can't imagine a store getting enough people to play competitive multiplayer since really the person with the most friends can just team up on non-friend players and decide before hand they'll split their prizes equally. I don't see how you actually play this format.
It's a casual format so there will never be competitive level tournaments. I predict here and now that this set will be popular whether you personally like it or not.
I am pretty sure there are going to be tournaments at our LGS, and I am very much looking forward to them.
Also, I really, really want to draft a deck with 3-4x Advantageous Proclamation + card draw/removal + Reito Lantern, and just stall out the entire board as my win con. This will probably never happen due to those cards being uncommons, but I can dream.
Seriously though, the conspiracy cards look extremely strong. I am very much looking forward to playing with all of them, and I predict that they're going to be massively misevaluated by a lot of people at first (I am not sure which way; they look very strong to me, but I could be wrong).
The extra booster card is going to be interesting because there are a few balancing factors at work. First, it is generally advantageous for you to get to be the first person to pick from one extra pack, since you get an extra 1st pick while everyone else gets an extra 2nd-8th pick. However, you essentially have to give up your pick for the current pack by taking the card, and you have to pay for the pack, both of which will encourage people to not take the card and cause it to go later. At some point, someone will take it, and thereby end up getting an extra 1st pick out of their 5th pick or whatever.
Ok what if we don't know 8 people that play magic casually AND want to pay a lot of money to casually draft for a multiplayer format?
There's no reason that this can't be drafted with just 3-4 people. Sure, it'll play a little differently than drafting with 6-8 since you'll have less opportunity for grabbing duplicate commons to use with some of the hidden agendas, but you can compensate for that by just adjusting your drafting strategy.
Alternately, if you do what I expect a lot of play groups are going to do and just have 1 person buy a box and keep the packs, treating it like a Cube that they own, you can have each person draft 2 pools, alternating which one they are drafting for with each pick. When everyone's done, they pick the pool that they like better and build a deck.
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While that sounds simple enough, for any event with prizes on the line, people have an incentive to cheat. Maybe you say you drafted this guy 7th pick instead of 6th. If you write something ambiguous on the post it note, how do we decide what you meant? This set requires record keeping during the draft, which is unusual, but also requires secret information to be recorded at the start of each match. This is going to be a judges nightmare.
1. Drafted in Pods of eight, unless all seven people decide to suddenly not pay attention when you announce a card you are drafting that you are REQUIRED TO ANNOUNCE.
2. If you are doing anything with prizes you're going to be keeping records anyway, since the most recent change disallows the use of electronic devices meaning the only assured way to keep track of life is PEN AND PAPER. So you'd be keeping notes anyway.
3. If you're this worried about it, don't draft this with prizes on the line, play for fun. And only for fun.
4. If you're this worried about the judges, give them a nice fruit basket after the event ends.
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
Source: http://mythicspoiler.com/cpy/index.html
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
Each box I buy, I am going to log each pack and use them to create a draft cube. I'll post the box contents in the other forum.
Looking to use this as a home only set (like how I use my Planechase 2012 set). Would be fun to run a draft with my brother or pack wars. If they include full art lands, I will remove those from the packs for my cube.
Academy Elite
Bite of the Black Rose
Brago's Representative
Cinder Wall
Noble Templar
Shoreline Ranger
Also with Noble Templar, Chartooth Cougar and Shoreline Ranger, I think its safe to assume Twisted Abomination and Wirewood Guardian are in as well.
Hoot and a half, by looks, at the least.
As such, this + any Will of the Council card in 1v1 (assuming your opponent also doesn't have it) allows you to dictate the result of those cards.
I doubt it.
They may add a line to the draft rules a little to specify that when choosing multiple cards you make all decisions simultaneously.
I expect Bite of the Black Rose to be a conspiracy, though it has a bit of a strange name for it. We have Brago's Favor and Muzzio's (the guy in Napoleonic hat) Preparations. I expect Marchesa (the Black Rose), Selvala and the last legend to have one "named" conspiracy each.
Then again, with Brago's Representative, there will possibly be legend-associated spells, this may just be some kind of a removal spell.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Do you really want a 35 card deck in a multiplayer format where games can go notoriously long? EDH has 100 cards for a reason.
Ok so you write the secret card on a post it note while people watch or does everyone have to look away while you do this?
And you really made a poor argument for adding an extra booster to the draft. Ok so you add a booster, the rare bomb isn't in your colors so you either you hate draft it and basically wasted money, or you just made someone else's deck a lot better. I fear no one can contextually evaluate cards anymore.
And you didn't explain how the automoton would work smoothly. When you draft each player can be easily be a different number of cards deep into the draft, especially if packs are stacking up at one or more player, and the only way to prove where you're at is to show your cards faceup. So a judge would in fact need to get involved, and go through all your drafted cards to determine the truth and bring the draft to a screeching halt.
So either you personally know 8 people interested in casual multiplayer that has a fee to play and many of the cards are useless after, or you're in the worst tournament ever?
I'm still hoping for a mana rock that gives an extra vote.
Also, after watching the video, I have to admit Howling Wolf and Screaming Seahawk look like awesome includes, because of the conspiracies.
You have to draft the automaton face up anyways. When you do, just count the number of cards you've drafted so far.
P.S: Also, I think, this set may just not be for you, if you think about it so competitively.
Yes, that's a concern, I guess. My friends and I like to undermine each other at every turn so I don't normally think of playing friendly with them. So... don't draft Conspiracy?
EDH goes long for two reasons:
1. 5+ players lead to more complicated board state choices.
2. Singleton format is singleton. The chances of drawing the specific card you want is 1/X where X is the remainder of your library. This means drawing into whatever card you need is INFINITELY harder than 60card. Which is not only a 4/X, but X is a much lower number to boot. In EDH, you would be at a strategic advantage (marginally) to your opponents if your deck was 94 cards instead of 99 cards. The overall impact is much less because the impact is proportional, which is why it's REALLY good in Sealed/Draft where your deck is 7/8ths their deck.
Draft is, universally, a risky format, because that is a factor. However, it's a factor that varies between Pack 1 Lore Seeker and Pack 3 Lore Seeker. Which is, you know, the same change between pack 1 goodstuff and pack 3 goodstuff. Since you could have decided to go Red for a Magma Spray in JOU, not grab much in the way of White through it or Born, and open an Elspeth in THS. Which is the exact same situation, only in a different draft format. So... this is different because the mechanic is expressed on a card, and not just as the format itself? Cause that's a problem that can always happen. That's the risk, sometimes your Lore Seeker'd pack of Future Sight is a Goyf, sometime's it's a Barren Glory. If this is a problem, don't draft.
I open my second pack (so this is the second round of drafting), and put my first round picks off in a pile to the left hand side of my person. I pick a Fact or Fiction because I'm probably forcing Blue because that's who I am, and put the card face down in front of me on the table. I pick a Conspiracy card as my second pick, because those seem fun, pass the pack, put the card I picked face down next to fact or fiction in front of me. These cards act as a running tally of my picks for these packs. When I pick up the pack with an automaton, which for this example will be sixth pick, I smile, place it face up in front of me with my previous drafted cards in a neat little row next to it, announce in my most dramatic of evil voices, that I've drafted it 6th, the table can confirm this by the fact that I used my evilest voice and there's a row of cards counting it. On top of that, unless I'm the most impulsive person at the table, several other people are probably at or past pick six, to confirm this.
Now if there's a second round using the two winners from the two games of each pod, I suppose there's a judge who can come over and initial my piece of paper (probably a Squirrel token because squirrel tokens are cool) that says "I drafted this sixth, because Iron Plushy insists the rules must be bade, here's proof. Also can't a card game be fun without everyone worrying everyone else has to cheat at a totally life or death children's card game."
Seven people. Unless you just like to watch. No judgments, that is a viable life choice and I am not judging you.
It's probably best to this of this as a movie, and not as an investment. Playing this is more of an experience. If you can take the cards later and put them in a cube or commander, or trade them to someone else who does, then you'll get more out of your investment.
To me, I want to play this irrespective of prizes. I will hopefully be playing it at my local game store with local people for around 15$ and maybe there will be something for the pod winners - but I don't really care either way. 15$ for a couple of hours of amazing fun is worth it to me.
It might not be worth it to you - which is also fine.
A corollary? How much did you enjoy Unglued and Unhinged? Or perhaps you haven't been playing that long? That is probably the best gauge to whether or not you'll like this.
Nothing in magic has ever beaten the following experience I had at Gen Con. A person asked Mark Rosewater (wearing a chicken suit) who was judging the first ever event of Unglued if they can remove their pants as a fast effect, in response to the declaration of attack by 2 Hurloon Wranglers. The ruling (if I remember correctly) was, yes as long as you have appropriate undergarments.
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
It's a casual format so there will never be competitive level tournaments. I predict here and now that this set will be popular whether you personally like it or not.
Also, I really, really want to draft a deck with 3-4x Advantageous Proclamation + card draw/removal + Reito Lantern, and just stall out the entire board as my win con. This will probably never happen due to those cards being uncommons, but I can dream.
Seriously though, the conspiracy cards look extremely strong. I am very much looking forward to playing with all of them, and I predict that they're going to be massively misevaluated by a lot of people at first (I am not sure which way; they look very strong to me, but I could be wrong).
The extra booster card is going to be interesting because there are a few balancing factors at work. First, it is generally advantageous for you to get to be the first person to pick from one extra pack, since you get an extra 1st pick while everyone else gets an extra 2nd-8th pick. However, you essentially have to give up your pick for the current pack by taking the card, and you have to pay for the pack, both of which will encourage people to not take the card and cause it to go later. At some point, someone will take it, and thereby end up getting an extra 1st pick out of their 5th pick or whatever.
There's no reason that this can't be drafted with just 3-4 people. Sure, it'll play a little differently than drafting with 6-8 since you'll have less opportunity for grabbing duplicate commons to use with some of the hidden agendas, but you can compensate for that by just adjusting your drafting strategy.
Alternately, if you do what I expect a lot of play groups are going to do and just have 1 person buy a box and keep the packs, treating it like a Cube that they own, you can have each person draft 2 pools, alternating which one they are drafting for with each pick. When everyone's done, they pick the pool that they like better and build a deck.