Players may use electronic devices to do the following:
(1st bullet point) Keep track of life totals or other game-relevant information.
"Players wishing to view information privately on electronic devices during matches must request permission from a judge." Maybe hearing aids and other medical devices for sensory disabilities could technically fall under this, although it would be ridiculous (and maybe fall under discrimination law) to pick on them anyway.
Effective February 7, 2014.
Policy changes posted April 28, 2014. I think that isn't effective any more. Though i'm not sure what specific parts changed and haven't, that file isn't up to date.
Lets be realistic here and stop discussing pacemakers and hearing aids. No judge in their right mind is going to disallow a player from using a pacemaker or hearing aid.
This policy change is clearly intended to remove grey area surrounding outside assistance via devices that connect to the internet.
Your smartphone is out-of-bounds. Your pacemaker is 100% legal.
Great, more power mad judges tripping out over inconsequential nonsense. Please, measure my lands again with a protractor to make sure I tapped them exactly 90 degrees. No fancy electronic playmats? What is this, 1995?
Now we will never have a chance to see a computer play against the world champion.
Sure.. Just let them play against the DotP AI. Honestly MTG AI is very hard to program outside of completely raw aggro decks and total combo decks. That's why they give the "boss" opponents completely busted decks (like Karn w/ his 4 Moxes).
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Great, more power mad judges tripping out over inconsequential nonsense. Please, measure my lands again with a protractor to make sure I tapped them exactly 90 degrees. No fancy electronic playmats? What is this, 1995?
In 1995, people couldn't use their phone to pull up info on the internet or contact friends through texting for help.
Lets be realistic here and stop discussing pacemakers and hearing aids. No judge in their right mind is going to disallow a player from using a pacemaker or hearing aid.
This policy change is clearly intended to remove grey area surrounding outside assistance via devices that connect to the internet.
Your smartphone is out-of-bounds. Your pacemaker is 100% legal.
Honestly, i would like to see them TRY to stop someone from using a pacemaker. "Umm... excuse me sir... you're going to have to take that rhythm keeping device out of your chest cavity. It... isn't tournament legal...
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
Honestly, i would like to see them TRY to stop someone from using a pacemaker. "Umm... excuse me sir... you're going to have to take that rhythm keeping device out of your chest cavity. It... isn't tournament legal...
Lets be realistic here and stop discussing pacemakers and hearing aids. No judge in their right mind is going to disallow a player from using a pacemaker or hearing aid.
This policy change is clearly intended to remove grey area surrounding outside assistance via devices that connect to the internet.
Your smartphone is out-of-bounds. Your pacemaker is 100% legal.
It is, however, best not to codify rules that encourage ridiculous rules-lawyering like this.
Of course national laws trump Magic rules and most nations have rules preventing discrimination against people reliant upon devices like pacemakers or hearing aids. Regardless, ridiculous unintentional loopholes like this should be closed quickly by a formal rules change.
There have been plenty of examples (in law) of well-intentioned rules changes resulting in ridiculous corner cases.
Well it does stop creative cheating. Given two minutes thought:.. Program your own Life Total app, with 'ads'. But the 'ads' are actually coded messages sent from your friend. Heck if you speak Chinese or Japanese, you could just have an 'ad' for a Japanese fighting game.. that really says "He's holding Supreme Verdict".. sent by a friend.. which will look just like an ad. Or even just your opponent's decklist, snooped from information..
A lot of subtle tricks, especial when you mess with hidden codes in so-called 'ads'.
You have a device that tells time. Doesn't make it a watch at all. It's like saying my computer is a watch because it displays the time in the bottom right corner of the monitor on the taskbar.
Don't care all that much for the changes. As for 'going green' I'm pretty sure at competitive and professional REL you were already required to use a pen and paper to keep track of life anyways although I may be wrong. There's something wrong with you if you're not using pen and paper at competitive or professional REL anyways as it is by far the most accurate way of keeping track of life. And as for having to do addition and subtraction? Don't make me laugh if you can't do that with your life total you shouldn't be playing magic you should be in 1st grade as addition and subtraction are laughably easy.
As for pacemakers and hearing aids? No judge is going to disallow those. Ever. No idea why someone thought of those with this policy change as this policy change wasn't to address pacemakers and hearing aids (for very obvious reasons.) Yeah you're going to have to take out your pacemaker/die to continue to play this game. Imagine if they did and they passed away right in the middle of the tournament. Then the judges would have a GIGANTIC problem on their hands and when the police arrived imagine them telling them the cause of death. So how many people heard about crackgate? Well multiply that number by 10 and that's how many people would hear about the guy who died due to this/how much of a PR nightmare this would be for WotC.
On rules lawyering about hearing aids or pacemakers? If anyone gets a gameloss, warning, etc. etc. because of using a hearing aid or pacemaker I would be astounded. If it was me for example and I got a gameloss for using a hearing aid (completely hypothetical situation here) I would actually punch my opponent in the face for being scum of the earth.
Also effects your buddy standing behind your opponent texting you what he sided in
Edit...
You guys know the hearing aid and pacemaker thing was a joke right?
On rules lawyering about hearing aids or pacemakers? If anyone gets a gameloss, warning, etc. etc. because of using a hearing aid or pacemaker I would be astounded. If it was me for example and I got a gameloss for using a hearing aid (completely hypothetical situation here) I would actually punch my opponent in the face for being scum of the earth.
Of course this way of reading the rule will never be enforced - the rules should be changed, however, so that judges no longer need to explicitly deviate from them.
Magic's comprehensive rules are extremely precise for a reason - it shuts down disruptive rules lawyering by making it clear that yes, even ridiculously contrived examples (a non-Planeswalker gaining loyalty abilities via silly Experiment Kraj scenarios, 2x Opalescence and Humility entering the battlefield simultaneously, etc) have clear answers in the rules. Where there is a situation not covered by the rules, the rules have been adjusted to address these issues - most importantly, the rules around infinite loops where both players have a way to break the loop but (for strategic reasons) neither wishes to; this one actually does arise in tournament play.
Other documents should follow the example of the Comprehensive Rules and be precise, unambiguous, and not have ridiculous intended effects. Especially unintended effects that a judge will never enforce, because that makes the rules seem somewhat of a joke.
I'm pretty sure some countries discrimination laws forbids discrimination such as banning of medical devices, regardless of whether it's intentional and reinforced or not.
For everybody worried about life counters being banned since they are potentially illegal under the new rules, use an abacus. One for your life, one for your opponent. Nothing electronic about them. Pad and pencil are still best to use since if your abacus gets bumped, you may lose your data like if you were using one of those etch-a-sketch toys.
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All your base are belong to us!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
You guys are funny, don't even know the difference between electrical and electronic devices.
Hearing aids, pacemakers, cameras (grey area, hold-over from old tech) are considered electrical devices and not electronic. Now digital cameras, camcorders are electronic, but if they aren't part of a smart phone, are usually left in the electrical devices category because the electronics was ancillary to the primary function. Now they get excluded as long as they are "dumb" cameras from the electronic devices category.
Actually that's an important distinction to be made. I've been using an electrical mechanical calculator to keep track of my life total for years... I guess since I don't want to give anyone a seizure deciding if I'm breaking the rules or not, I'll leave it at home. Even though the paper tape print-out is super handy for jotting notes onto.
Actually, no. Very "no". Anything with an integrated circuit inside is electronic (basically everything nowadays, even a microwave oven or a dishwasher. And that definition doesn't imply "digital". You can very well be electronic and analogic.
That inclusion in the MTR (2.12) just make little to no sense.
Actually, no. Very "no". Anything with an integrated circuit inside is electronic (basically everything nowadays, even a microwave oven or a dishwasher. And that definition doesn't imply "digital". You can very well be electronic and analogic.
So I can't use my microwave to keep track of life totals anymore? Darn.
From the way this thread is going, you'd think the DCI had actually banned pacemakers.
They moved away from "this is a specific list of devices we forbid" because technology changes so quickly that it's not possible to keep up with it. (Oh hey it's almost like Toby Elliott said exactly the same thing but no one actually read it.) I imagine that players are expected to use common sense when it comes to figuring out what's acceptable and what's not. Clearly you were overestimated.
I admit I hadn't noticed that.
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This policy change is clearly intended to remove grey area surrounding outside assistance via devices that connect to the internet.
Your smartphone is out-of-bounds. Your pacemaker is 100% legal.
[[b]B]DCI Level 2 Judge[/B][/b]Sure.. Just let them play against the DotP AI. Honestly MTG AI is very hard to program outside of completely raw aggro decks and total combo decks. That's why they give the "boss" opponents completely busted decks (like Karn w/ his 4 Moxes).
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The irony of wanting to be green when playing a card game.
In 1995, people couldn't use their phone to pull up info on the internet or contact friends through texting for help.
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Hmmm. Very true. Maybe we should start grinding up all the Chimney imps and the Razor Boomerangs to print our new, worthwhile cards on.
Honestly, i would like to see them TRY to stop someone from using a pacemaker. "Umm... excuse me sir... you're going to have to take that rhythm keeping device out of your chest cavity. It... isn't tournament legal...
Exactly. Let's show some sanity here.
It is, however, best not to codify rules that encourage ridiculous rules-lawyering like this.
Of course national laws trump Magic rules and most nations have rules preventing discrimination against people reliant upon devices like pacemakers or hearing aids. Regardless, ridiculous unintentional loopholes like this should be closed quickly by a formal rules change.
There have been plenty of examples (in law) of well-intentioned rules changes resulting in ridiculous corner cases.
A lot of subtle tricks, especial when you mess with hidden codes in so-called 'ads'.
Back to the Ice Age...!!!
But I do agree, each individual needs some sort of log during high level tourneys. Unfortunately most apps come out short/or cost an arm or leg.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Don't care all that much for the changes. As for 'going green' I'm pretty sure at competitive and professional REL you were already required to use a pen and paper to keep track of life anyways although I may be wrong. There's something wrong with you if you're not using pen and paper at competitive or professional REL anyways as it is by far the most accurate way of keeping track of life. And as for having to do addition and subtraction? Don't make me laugh if you can't do that with your life total you shouldn't be playing magic you should be in 1st grade as addition and subtraction are laughably easy.
As for pacemakers and hearing aids? No judge is going to disallow those. Ever. No idea why someone thought of those with this policy change as this policy change wasn't to address pacemakers and hearing aids (for very obvious reasons.) Yeah you're going to have to take out your pacemaker/die to continue to play this game. Imagine if they did and they passed away right in the middle of the tournament. Then the judges would have a GIGANTIC problem on their hands and when the police arrived imagine them telling them the cause of death. So how many people heard about crackgate? Well multiply that number by 10 and that's how many people would hear about the guy who died due to this/how much of a PR nightmare this would be for WotC.
On rules lawyering about hearing aids or pacemakers? If anyone gets a gameloss, warning, etc. etc. because of using a hearing aid or pacemaker I would be astounded. If it was me for example and I got a gameloss for using a hearing aid (completely hypothetical situation here) I would actually punch my opponent in the face for being scum of the earth.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Edit...
You guys know the hearing aid and pacemaker thing was a joke right?
Of course this way of reading the rule will never be enforced - the rules should be changed, however, so that judges no longer need to explicitly deviate from them.
Magic's comprehensive rules are extremely precise for a reason - it shuts down disruptive rules lawyering by making it clear that yes, even ridiculously contrived examples (a non-Planeswalker gaining loyalty abilities via silly Experiment Kraj scenarios, 2x Opalescence and Humility entering the battlefield simultaneously, etc) have clear answers in the rules. Where there is a situation not covered by the rules, the rules have been adjusted to address these issues - most importantly, the rules around infinite loops where both players have a way to break the loop but (for strategic reasons) neither wishes to; this one actually does arise in tournament play.
Other documents should follow the example of the Comprehensive Rules and be precise, unambiguous, and not have ridiculous intended effects. Especially unintended effects that a judge will never enforce, because that makes the rules seem somewhat of a joke.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Actually, no. Very "no". Anything with an integrated circuit inside is electronic (basically everything nowadays, even a microwave oven or a dishwasher. And that definition doesn't imply "digital". You can very well be electronic and analogic.
That inclusion in the MTR (2.12) just make little to no sense.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
So I can't use my microwave to keep track of life totals anymore? Darn.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
They moved away from "this is a specific list of devices we forbid" because technology changes so quickly that it's not possible to keep up with it. (Oh hey it's almost like Toby Elliott said exactly the same thing but no one actually read it.) I imagine that players are expected to use common sense when it comes to figuring out what's acceptable and what's not. Clearly you were overestimated.
Standard: W/R Aggro
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Standard: W/R Aggro