Isn't i that block with +-300 cards worth tournament play(until psycatogue.deck toke place) . That now only +-45 are worthing something due to being dumb powerfull (cofcof : Standstill , Entumb....)?
My bad. My brain farted bad.
I meant prophecy block...
Actually in odyssey block i had a REAL monoblack deck that i still miss, not like these days...
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Red critter is really, really amazing. Trample and double strike on a creature is almost unheard of, since the two abilities play so well together, and the fact this one also gives you pseudo-card draw is just gravy. Amazingly good card.
Demon is an interesting beast. Giving your opponent cards isn't very good, but beating face with a 5/5 as early as turn 3, on the other hand, is. This card could very well be playable. The drawback isn't even hard to swallow, when you've had to kill people with Phyrexian Negator before.
Twinflame: Heat Shimmer, eat your heart out. If anything, this card makes me want to try to make mono-Red Shamans a thing in Modern. I will cast this on Rage Forger and love it. Love. It.
Mmmm... are my Gatherer skills so bad or is this the only creature legal in Modern that has unconditional Double Strike + Trample just on its own?
Nope, you're right. The only other creature ever printed with double strike and trample is Dragon Tyrant. It's from Scourge, the most recent set that's not Modern-legal.
The Demon is not a good constructed card. Phyrexian Negator had the one powerful benefit of being played alongside Dark Ritual. This card does not have that luxury. More often than that, all the use you'll see out of it is as a blocker and giving your opponent an extra draw or two. It's too easily removed and has way too high a drawback.
I like Master of the Feast. This is the demon I've always wanted them to make, mean fast but had a drawback. I could see this being in mono black once RTR rotates. I'll probably play a set for Theros Block Mono Black or any shenanigans of that sort. The other cards are cool too. Red's Mythic is weird. They really like that exiling clause...
The cool thing about the demon is that usually creatures with that cmc, p/t and drawback typically don't have evasion. This guy does, and that's why I think he could see play. Three mana for a 5/5 flier is scary! I'll take four.
Why does everyone feel the need to add mediocre pump effects to a ridiculous red card advantage engine? Sure, you only hit them for 2, but then you get to pseudo-draw 2. Considering its a red 3-drop, that seems good enough without a pump effect.
But, it's not a draw engine. Red Aggro decks often want to use their mana before attacking, like to suit this guy up, play a haste creature, or remove a creature to clear a path. Only after damage is dealt is a card exiled. If you are going to have the mana open to cast a card exiled this way, it will often mean you will have to forgo using mana pre-combat.
Edit: Double strike and trample is awesome. I want to suit him up with Alpha Authority and Madcap Skills.
The Demon is not a good constructed card. Phyrexian Negator had the one powerful benefit of being played alongside Dark Ritual. This card does not have that luxury. More often than that, all the use you'll see out of it is as a blocker and giving your opponent an extra draw or two. It's too easily removed and has way too high a drawback.
People said the same thing about Desecration Demon...
On a serious side note: I think the new demon could actually see play. It does give them an extra draw per turn; however, they draw that extra card during your upkeep. Which means if your not playing against control... the negative impact is delayed.
I was hoping that Pharika would have more graveyard play but she is still pretty awesome. That Flamespeaker is going to leave its mark in multiple formats for sure, that card is awesome. I really like the demon for a desecration demon filler after rotation as well.
Okay, let's settle this right now... (Bear with me, posting from mobile)
The demon is not good. At all. For all of you comparing this to Dese Demon... You're wrong for making that comparison.
Dese Demon is the WORST card in Mono Black and Orzhov Control. Why? He is ALWAYS tapped down or killed. Much more than the amount of times he wins you a game. You always get the worst option. Stop saying he's good just because he fills a gap that those two decks needed: a cheap, evasive blocker/attacker.
With this said, Dese Demon does NOT give your opponent CARD ADVANTAGE. I want all of the kitchen table MTG players to stop attempting to evaluate this card. Just because he is cheap, powerful, and has flying does not warrant him constructed play. Especially with the HUGE downside of giving your opponent more card draw. Your (most likely intelligent) opponent will let it sit when you play it, pass the turn, and kill it after your upkeep. You wasted three mana to give your opponent a card. Sounds real good.
Okay, let's settle this right now... (Bear with me, posting from mobile)
The demon is not good. At all. For all of you comparing this to Dese Demon... You're wrong for making that comparison.
Dese Demon is the WORST card in Mono Black and Orzhov Control. Why? He is ALWAYS tapped down or killed. Much more than the amount of times he wins you a game. You always get the worst option. Stop saying he's good just because he fills a gap that those two decks needed: a cheap, evasive blocker/attacker.
With this said, Dese Demon does NOT give your opponent CARD ADVANTAGE. I want all of the kitchen table MTG players to stop attempting to evaluate this card. Just because he is cheap, powerful, and has flying does not warrant him constructed play. Especially with the HUGE downside of giving your opponent more card draw. Your (most likely intelligent) opponent will let it sit when you play it, pass the turn, and kill it after your upkeep. You wasted three mana to give your opponent a card. Sounds real good.
And if you don't have a removal? Against certain match-ups, the extra draw won't matter much.
Now this isn't to say the pros aren't going to find a way to break him, this is possible. But as of right now, he's terrible. Look at other cards with huge downsides like him. The 4/3 demon for BB with unearth and your opponent gets him when you kill it. Saw TONS of play, right? Duskmantle Seer was CRAZY right? I remember all the hype for the aforementioned card, too. Was 20 dollars in the first week. Saw ZERO play. Just like this demon.
On a more positive note, that red creature is nuts. Trample and Double Strike alone on a single creature are enough for it to see play. When you think about him giving you double of Chandra, Pyromaster's -1 ability? That's nuts.
Now this isn't to say the pros aren't going to find a way to break him, this is possible. But as of right now, he's terrible. Look at other cards with huge downsides like him. The 4/3 demon for BB with unearth and your opponent gets him when you kill it. Saw TONS of play, right? Duskmantle Seer was CRAZY right? I remember all the hype for the aforementioned card, too. Was 20 dollars in the first week. Saw ZERO play. Just like this demon.
On a more positive note, that red creature is nuts. Trample and Double Strike alone on a single creature are enough for it to see play. When you think about him giving you double of Chandra, Pyromaster's -1 ability? That's nuts.
On the flip side... there was zero hype for desecration demon. People thought it was terrible. And continued to think it was terrible till Mono-Black became a thing.
Duskmantle Seer could still see play.. but it has zero support. What decks would run it? BU control is not a thing (nor will ever be while sphinx/detention sphere is in the format). MBD can not splash for it (too high of a curve. Taking 4-5 damage for revealing a demon or merchant is suicidal). MBA has no need for it (plus their curve is also somewhat high).
Your comparisons are kind of a stretch. The cards you listed... see no play because they have no support. The new demon could easily fit into a black shell.
The new demon seems really good vs aggro. Mono-green aggro, mono-black aggro, WR devotion, etc. would have no answers to this guy. And the extra draw wouldn't help them much (in theory). This card does have the potential to be very bad though vs burn, midrange, and control. So there is that.
The only real deck I could see this in is The GB Whip Jared deck. I mean, he's a huge fatty (literally), and he hits for 5, and is sacked to jared for five more. Plus he's an enchantment.
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I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
I like the demon - he's a perfect fit with Whispering Madness. Imagine once m15 is released: turn 2 Waste Not, turn 3 Demon, turn 4 (your opponent draws an extra card) Whispering Madness. Profit.
The demon really depends on what removal people are using. If Mono-Black is still awesome and it's running Hero's Downfalls or other instant speed removal this seems really bad. "Draw a card, kill your guy, thanks." Over-all it can be tough to beat but you need to make sure you're applying enough pressure to help negate the card draw you're providing.
The Flamespeaker will see about as much Modern play as Shadowmage Infiltrator or Ohran Viper. Don't go crazy with the hype. He can see a bit of Standard play but that's all.
Now this isn't to say the pros aren't going to find a way to break him, this is possible. But as of right now, he's terrible. Look at other cards with huge downsides like him. The 4/3 demon for BB with unearth and your opponent gets him when you kill it. Saw TONS of play, right? Duskmantle Seer was CRAZY right? I remember all the hype for the aforementioned card, too. Was 20 dollars in the first week. Saw ZERO play. Just like this demon.
On a more positive note, that red creature is nuts. Trample and Double Strike alone on a single creature are enough for it to see play. When you think about him giving you double of Chandra, Pyromaster's -1 ability? That's nuts.
On the flip side... there was zero hype for desecration demon. People thought it was terrible. And continued to think it was terrible till Mono-Black became a thing.
Duskmantle Seer could still see play.. but it has zero support. What decks would run it? BU control is not a thing (nor will ever be while sphinx/detention sphere is in the format). MBD can not splash for it (too high of a curve. Taking 4-5 damage for revealing a demon or merchant is suicidal). MBA has no need for it (plus their curve is also somewhat high).
Your comparisons are kind of a stretch. The cards you listed... see no play because they have no support. The new demon could easily fit into a black shell.
The new demon seems really good vs aggro. Mono-green aggro, mono-black aggro, WR devotion, etc. would have no answers to this guy. And the extra draw wouldn't help them much (in theory). This card does have the potential to be very bad though vs burn, midrange, and control. So there is that.
Okay, sure. He may be decent against aggro, but the fact of the matter is, the best aggro decks are white-based. White has access to some of the best removal in standard (baring black, and including Chained to the Rocks, Banisher Priest, Selesnya Charm, etc.) and some of the best creatures in standard (Brimaz, Blood Baron, Banisher Priest, Voice of Resurgence, etc.)
These decks will not care about this demon. They will either race over him, or kill him outright without giving you any benefit. Mono-green aggro is not a deck. Mono-black aggro see fringe play and they play Desecration Demon and Herald of Torment anyway. Aggro decks are falling out of popularity to control and midrange decks. Look at the top 36 for Grand Prix Phoenix. The only aggro deck in the top 36 was Mono-blue aggro, and they run Domestication and Rapid Hybridization. Plus, they pump out so many creatures they don't care about him. They also run Cyclonic Rift.
With that said, and with midrange and control being the most prevalent deck archetypes in standard, this card will see no play.
Also, Duskmantle Seer sees no play because of it being bad. Your opponent gets to get the bob effect before you do, and at that point, they will kill the creature. It's the same concept. The opponent gets the benefit before you do. Just as they get the card draw from this guy before you get to attack. He is bad. End of story.
Also, Esper control is HUGE. Esper is Blue, Black, and White. Two of those three colors are the colors Duskmantle Seer is in.... he still sees no play.
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This is what has me excited. Cards like Prophetic Flamespeaker really are helpful to making Red a more fun color.
Definitely grabbing at least one copy for my mono-Red EDH.
My bad. My brain farted bad.
I meant prophecy block...
Actually in odyssey block i had a REAL monoblack deck that i still miss, not like these days...
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Demon is an interesting beast. Giving your opponent cards isn't very good, but beating face with a 5/5 as early as turn 3, on the other hand, is. This card could very well be playable. The drawback isn't even hard to swallow, when you've had to kill people with Phyrexian Negator before.
Twinflame: Heat Shimmer, eat your heart out. If anything, this card makes me want to try to make mono-Red Shamans a thing in Modern. I will cast this on Rage Forger and love it. Love. It.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Nope, you're right. The only other creature ever printed with double strike and trample is Dragon Tyrant. It's from Scourge, the most recent set that's not Modern-legal.
This made me giggle so hard. Thank you.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
But, it's not a draw engine. Red Aggro decks often want to use their mana before attacking, like to suit this guy up, play a haste creature, or remove a creature to clear a path. Only after damage is dealt is a card exiled. If you are going to have the mana open to cast a card exiled this way, it will often mean you will have to forgo using mana pre-combat.
Edit: Double strike and trample is awesome. I want to suit him up with Alpha Authority and Madcap Skills.
People said the same thing about Desecration Demon...
On a serious side note: I think the new demon could actually see play. It does give them an extra draw per turn; however, they draw that extra card during your upkeep. Which means if your not playing against control... the negative impact is delayed.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
The demon is not good. At all. For all of you comparing this to Dese Demon... You're wrong for making that comparison.
Dese Demon is the WORST card in Mono Black and Orzhov Control. Why? He is ALWAYS tapped down or killed. Much more than the amount of times he wins you a game. You always get the worst option. Stop saying he's good just because he fills a gap that those two decks needed: a cheap, evasive blocker/attacker.
With this said, Dese Demon does NOT give your opponent CARD ADVANTAGE. I want all of the kitchen table MTG players to stop attempting to evaluate this card. Just because he is cheap, powerful, and has flying does not warrant him constructed play. Especially with the HUGE downside of giving your opponent more card draw. Your (most likely intelligent) opponent will let it sit when you play it, pass the turn, and kill it after your upkeep. You wasted three mana to give your opponent a card. Sounds real good.
And if you don't have a removal? Against certain match-ups, the extra draw won't matter much.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
On a more positive note, that red creature is nuts. Trample and Double Strike alone on a single creature are enough for it to see play. When you think about him giving you double of Chandra, Pyromaster's -1 ability? That's nuts.
**applause** Well played, sir or madam!
On the flip side... there was zero hype for desecration demon. People thought it was terrible. And continued to think it was terrible till Mono-Black became a thing.
Duskmantle Seer could still see play.. but it has zero support. What decks would run it? BU control is not a thing (nor will ever be while sphinx/detention sphere is in the format). MBD can not splash for it (too high of a curve. Taking 4-5 damage for revealing a demon or merchant is suicidal). MBA has no need for it (plus their curve is also somewhat high).
Your comparisons are kind of a stretch. The cards you listed... see no play because they have no support. The new demon could easily fit into a black shell.
The new demon seems really good vs aggro. Mono-green aggro, mono-black aggro, WR devotion, etc. would have no answers to this guy. And the extra draw wouldn't help them much (in theory). This card does have the potential to be very bad though vs burn, midrange, and control. So there is that.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
Okay, sure. He may be decent against aggro, but the fact of the matter is, the best aggro decks are white-based. White has access to some of the best removal in standard (baring black, and including Chained to the Rocks, Banisher Priest, Selesnya Charm, etc.) and some of the best creatures in standard (Brimaz, Blood Baron, Banisher Priest, Voice of Resurgence, etc.)
These decks will not care about this demon. They will either race over him, or kill him outright without giving you any benefit. Mono-green aggro is not a deck. Mono-black aggro see fringe play and they play Desecration Demon and Herald of Torment anyway. Aggro decks are falling out of popularity to control and midrange decks. Look at the top 36 for Grand Prix Phoenix. The only aggro deck in the top 36 was Mono-blue aggro, and they run Domestication and Rapid Hybridization. Plus, they pump out so many creatures they don't care about him. They also run Cyclonic Rift.
With that said, and with midrange and control being the most prevalent deck archetypes in standard, this card will see no play.
Also, Duskmantle Seer sees no play because of it being bad. Your opponent gets to get the bob effect before you do, and at that point, they will kill the creature. It's the same concept. The opponent gets the benefit before you do. Just as they get the card draw from this guy before you get to attack. He is bad. End of story.
Also, Esper control is HUGE. Esper is Blue, Black, and White. Two of those three colors are the colors Duskmantle Seer is in.... he still sees no play.