(Could someone look at the mana base? I think I might have screwed it up.
I feel you want fewer mana confluences, you don't want to kill yourself outright as you're running 4 thoughtseize as well, I'd cut 2, also is cut 1 each swamp and plains and add the playset of the BW temple of silence as it will help smooth out your draws mid game, which is where a deck like this will really need it hope that helps
i understand that tormented hero is a human, but you have literally 0 ways to trigger his heroic. also, with no removal, youre going to have a hard time dealing with monsters, even something like a sylvan caryatid is going to give you trouble.
So what is the deal with all those effects that say "exile this creature if it were to go anywhere else?" type stuff like Whip of Erebos and Unearth? That is if your opponent refuses to pay for the life cost.
Dies == Goes to graveyard from batlefield
Whip has a replecement effect that makes the creature never touch the grave ( it doesn't die , it s vanished)
Every week that i have time I submit a deck idea to Gavin verhey on the motherboard, before I even came to the discussion boards here, this is the deck I submitted, it seems a lot of the ideas I had are things that people on here agree with, any thoughts on it?
@Empathogen, are you happy with any spoiled cards ever? It's just such a bummer to see you get disappointed over and over again, even when the cards are good
Well I've found what I'm calling that card from now on. In other news I love this card. I was just building a W/B humans deck with necromancer and friends. This can definitely go in there.
Every week that i have time I submit a deck idea to Gavin verhey on the motherboard, before I even came to the discussion boards here, this is the deck I submitted, it seems a lot of the ideas I had are things that people on here agree with, any thoughts on it?
I'll drop Launch the Fleet to a 2-of since you don't really like seeing it in your opening hand at all, what you want is at least 3 creatures in your opening hand. Replace 1 or 2 Hall of Triumph with Spear of Heliod coz it adds devotion to your Athreos. Maybe drop a couple of Mogi's Marauders, not sure if we can get a reliable number of black devotion for that with your current creature base. Add in a God's Willing or 2 for the scry effect, not bad to have another protection. Pain Seer might have a home here so you can out that into your list as well. Drop some Sin Collectors to 2-3, you don't really want to see too many of them since they are dead in the late game, also if you have Athreos and Cartel Aristocrat out, you can just sac to Aristocrat then return Sin Collector back into hand then recast to discard again. Another card to ponder on is Lifebane Zombie in that slot with Sin Collector.
That's a pretty solid list you got there, nearly forgot about Boros Elite (I don't play standard much). Going for a more white based deck is a good move to, maybe you can add in a couple of Thoughtseizes in the SB when you fight against control or the likes. Also drop a couple of Tormented Hero for Imposing Sovereign in the MB and maybe move in 1 or 2 Sin Collector into the MB.
#1 - What's the dumbest idea you ever had?
#2 - 15/15 for 15?
#1 - Make it dumber
#2 - Give it protection from removal and counter?
#1 - DUMBER!
#2 - Add Timewalk?
#1 - DAMN IT MAN, I SAID DUMB!! DUMB !!!
#2 - It destroys everything when it attacks.... And wait, I have a friend who plays mill decks... I want to beat him too.
#1 - Excellent! Recess is over, go back and learn sex-ed with the other 6th graders.
I'm going to have to agree with ancienthonor. Besides being a one drop human, there isn't much of a place for Tormented Hero in your deck list. Maybe use some copies of Boros Elite instead? That would also help your mana curve a ton (because if you're trying to get the black mana to play Tormented Hero on turn one, chances are you aren't going to have the two white necessary to cast Precinct Captain on turn two, which could seriously slow this deck down).
Maybe consider replacing the Tormented Heros with something else? The chances of getting off a turn 1 Hero -> turn 2 Precinct captain are incredibly low, based on your mana base, so you should probably try to account for that. In fact, your chances of a turn 1 hero are pretty low by themselves. With a 1/10 chance to start with a godless shrine or a swamp, it might be better to consider a different card. On top of that, you're not really getting any extra effect out of it. It's a 2/1 that can't block the turn it comes down. I'm not sure what you could replace it with, if you want it to be a 1 drop (the only other 1 drop white humans I can find are Nyxborn Shieldmate, Soulmender, and Favored Hoplite, which would have 1/2 of the same problems that Hero has :P).
The first two times I looked at this, I thought it was 2WB. My brain was certain that's what a card like this should cost. This card at this cost is clearly below the curve in terms of mana cost compared to creatures of similar strength. I wonder if a WB goodstuff midrange deck will exist because of this card.
I think the best way to use this God is to make the opponent want to pay the 3 life over you getting the human back. In standard, dark prophecy might be able to fill that role. It adds greatly to devotion, draws you a card when a creature dies, and the god makes your opponent not want you to draw additional cards every time that happens. Your opponent would either have to let you get a creature back and draw a card every time a dude died, or pay 3 life to ensure you only draw one card. Either way is a win win for you. And having either card out can help your board. Prophecy can draw you into the god or more creatures while the God is the punnisher. With both out, you only.need two more devotion to have an active God.
That said, it is mostly just fantasy I am sure. The real deal for this guy I think is slotting into Mono-Black. By adding this guy, your opponent almost always has to say "I'll pay 3 life." He/she certainly won't want a grey merchant to go back to your hand, and Pack Rat will be no fun either.
Well... BW Aggro is a deck now. This card is incredible.... best god yet (out of Nyx, possibly out of the block).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Avatar by Disappointing Signet Inc
EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
^ Your complaint is basically that it doesn't win games all by itself...? I appreciate the attempt to balance this thread out, but incremental advantage over time is exactly what certain decks lack to be playable.
That was part of my argument but the other was that the punisher mechanics is weak. It's useless in midrange because midrange doesn't need no make opponents lose 3 life it needs to stick a large threat and avoid losing before it does. and useless in control because control doesn't run many creatures. Would you ever put Blood Artist in a midrange deck? How about control? No, you would play it in an aggressive deck that can reliably trigger it like zombies or in aristocrats. Now this card also has the other effect that they can return it to your hand which allows for cards like Scavenging ooze to negate the effect entirely or can prevent you from closing the game while your opponent stabilizes. In order to capitalize on the ability you would have to have very strong "when ~ dies" or "sacrifice a creature:" effects to compliment it so that regardless of the ability that they choose you still get an effect other than bounce target creature you control. I don't believe that there is a strong enough card base for an aristocrats style deck in standard at the moment but feel free to prove me wrong. Now as far as it having a potentially undercosted body with a punisher mechanic tacked on, it's sort of like a mini Mogis, God of Slaughter which has proven to be pretty weak. It may be that the punisher mechanic on athreos is stronger in most situation and that a 5 power 3cmc god is still good without evation but even if it is I think that people are overestimating the power of this card by a very large margin. For example it was proposed that it could have a place in pod where it would probably just be a blood artist that cant be sac'd to birthing pod.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Maybe consider replacing the Tormented Heros with something else? The chances of getting off a turn 1 Hero -> turn 2 Precinct captain are incredibly low, based on your mana base, so you should probably try to account for that. In fact, your chances of a turn 1 hero are pretty low by themselves. With a 1/10 chance to start with a godless shrine or a swamp, it might be better to consider a different card. On top of that, you're not really getting any extra effect out of it. It's a 2/1 that can't block the turn it comes down. I'm not sure what you could replace it with, if you want it to be a 1 drop (the only other 1 drop white humans I can find are Nyxborn Shieldmate, Soulmender, and Favored Hoplite, which would have 1/2 of the same problems that Hero has :P).
2 Mana Confluence and switching the Precinct Captains for Daring Skyjeks could smooth out the mana base
Fine, a real answer. The reason I personally love it is A. In BW taxes I can keep my vial to three where I like it and still drop this guy in. B. He goes fantastically with cards like Geralfs messenger, having three b in the cmc and having etb and dying effects. He gives a little bit of reach to decks running him, which is key at the moment for breaking stalled board states against decks like pod. Quite frankly the reason I didn't give you a real answer at first was your post sounds like the usual knee jerk reaction everyone gives to punisher effects. Keep in mind this is also a REPEATED effect unlike tribute and there's a huge difference in modern between three and four mana. I really just don't know what more you want from a three mana god in those colors.
Amazing card, 3 mana to recycle all of my cards (unless my opponent wants to pay 3 mana a time, which won't last for long). The gods in this set continue to impress.
At 4 cmc, this will be a bit high for aggro decks to use reliably. Does a little to make up for how bad Mogis and Phenax were. Would fit aggro so much better if it was only 3 mana like Thassa(the other aggro god) but then it would have been broken.
Oh wait...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
4 Precint Captain
4 Xadrith Necromancer
4 Tormented Hero
4 Athreos, God of Passage
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Sin Collector
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Thoughtseize
4 Immortal Servitude
Lands
4 Swamp
4 Plains
4 Godless Shrine
4 Mana Confluence
4 Mutavault
It good?
(Could someone look at the mana base? I think I might have screwed it up.
I feel you want fewer mana confluences, you don't want to kill yourself outright as you're running 4 thoughtseize as well, I'd cut 2, also is cut 1 each swamp and plains and add the playset of the BW temple of silence as it will help smooth out your draws mid game, which is where a deck like this will really need it
4 Precint Captain
4 Xadrith Necromancer
4 Tormented Hero
4 Athreos, God of Passage
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Sin Collector
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Thoughtseize
4 Immortal Servitude
Lands
3 Swamp
3 Plains
4 Godless Shrine
4 Mutavault
2 Mana Confluence
4 Temple of Silence
Thank you, it did help.
Dies == Goes to graveyard from batlefield
Whip has a replecement effect that makes the creature never touch the grave ( it doesn't die , it s vanished)
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Imposing Sovereign
4 Mogis's Marauder
4 Sin Collector
4 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Atheros, God of Passage
2 Hall of Triumph
3 Brave the Elements
3 Thoughtseize
4 Launch the Fleet
Lands:21
3 Mutavault
2 Mana Confluence
4 Godless Shrine
4 Plains
4 Swamp
4 Temple of Silence
Every week that i have time I submit a deck idea to Gavin verhey on the motherboard, before I even came to the discussion boards here, this is the deck I submitted, it seems a lot of the ideas I had are things that people on here agree with, any thoughts on it?
Well I've found what I'm calling that card from now on. In other news I love this card. I was just building a W/B humans deck with necromancer and friends. This can definitely go in there.
4 Boros Elite
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Tormented Hero
3 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Precinct Captain
3 Banisher Priest
3 Athreos, God of Passage
4 Xathrid Necromancer
4 Brave the Elements
3 Doom Blade
2 Orzhov Charm
2 Spear of Heliod
Lands:20
4 Godless Shrine
2 Mutavault
8 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Temple of Silence
3 Dark Betrayal
2 Duress
2 Imposing Sovereign
2 Hero's Downfall
3 Immortal Servitude
3 Sin Collector
Thoughts, friends?
I'll drop Launch the Fleet to a 2-of since you don't really like seeing it in your opening hand at all, what you want is at least 3 creatures in your opening hand. Replace 1 or 2 Hall of Triumph with Spear of Heliod coz it adds devotion to your Athreos. Maybe drop a couple of Mogi's Marauders, not sure if we can get a reliable number of black devotion for that with your current creature base. Add in a God's Willing or 2 for the scry effect, not bad to have another protection. Pain Seer might have a home here so you can out that into your list as well. Drop some Sin Collectors to 2-3, you don't really want to see too many of them since they are dead in the late game, also if you have Athreos and Cartel Aristocrat out, you can just sac to Aristocrat then return Sin Collector back into hand then recast to discard again. Another card to ponder on is Lifebane Zombie in that slot with Sin Collector.
That's a pretty solid list you got there, nearly forgot about Boros Elite (I don't play standard much). Going for a more white based deck is a good move to, maybe you can add in a couple of Thoughtseizes in the SB when you fight against control or the likes. Also drop a couple of Tormented Hero for Imposing Sovereign in the MB and maybe move in 1 or 2 Sin Collector into the MB.
(Outside of using Donate or one of its ilk on one of the above three, is there any way to give an opponent shroud or hexproof?)
Maybe consider replacing the Tormented Heros with something else? The chances of getting off a turn 1 Hero -> turn 2 Precinct captain are incredibly low, based on your mana base, so you should probably try to account for that. In fact, your chances of a turn 1 hero are pretty low by themselves. With a 1/10 chance to start with a godless shrine or a swamp, it might be better to consider a different card. On top of that, you're not really getting any extra effect out of it. It's a 2/1 that can't block the turn it comes down. I'm not sure what you could replace it with, if you want it to be a 1 drop (the only other 1 drop white humans I can find are Nyxborn Shieldmate, Soulmender, and Favored Hoplite, which would have 1/2 of the same problems that Hero has :P).
That said, it is mostly just fantasy I am sure. The real deal for this guy I think is slotting into Mono-Black. By adding this guy, your opponent almost always has to say "I'll pay 3 life." He/she certainly won't want a grey merchant to go back to your hand, and Pack Rat will be no fun either.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
That was part of my argument but the other was that the punisher mechanics is weak. It's useless in midrange because midrange doesn't need no make opponents lose 3 life it needs to stick a large threat and avoid losing before it does. and useless in control because control doesn't run many creatures. Would you ever put Blood Artist in a midrange deck? How about control? No, you would play it in an aggressive deck that can reliably trigger it like zombies or in aristocrats. Now this card also has the other effect that they can return it to your hand which allows for cards like Scavenging ooze to negate the effect entirely or can prevent you from closing the game while your opponent stabilizes. In order to capitalize on the ability you would have to have very strong "when ~ dies" or "sacrifice a creature:" effects to compliment it so that regardless of the ability that they choose you still get an effect other than bounce target creature you control. I don't believe that there is a strong enough card base for an aristocrats style deck in standard at the moment but feel free to prove me wrong. Now as far as it having a potentially undercosted body with a punisher mechanic tacked on, it's sort of like a mini Mogis, God of Slaughter which has proven to be pretty weak. It may be that the punisher mechanic on athreos is stronger in most situation and that a 5 power 3cmc god is still good without evation but even if it is I think that people are overestimating the power of this card by a very large margin. For example it was proposed that it could have a place in pod where it would probably just be a blood artist that cant be sac'd to birthing pod.
I would address your point but you didn't actually address mine.
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
2 Mana Confluence and switching the Precinct Captains for Daring Skyjeks could smooth out the mana base
I'm Playing
New Challenge Everyday
Kank'sPremiumBlend
Well, this is simply the most broken card I've seen spoiled since Deathrite Shaman.
Well, at least all the whiners will stop complaining for a while now.
4 Xadrith Necromancer
4 Tormented Hero
3 Athreos, God of Passage
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
1 Sin Collector
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Gnarled Scarhide
2 ultimate prce
2 Bile Blight
4 Thoughtseize
2 Spear of heliod
Lands
3 mutavaults
4 Swamp
5 Plains
4 Godless Shrine
4 Mana Confluence
Oh wait...