I don't understand how people think Damnation will be reprinted in a regular set like this.
It was time-shifted. We're not in a block where that's a thing, and it's likely they'll never do that again. It might get reprinted in a special set, but you can't ask for that to be reprinted in a regular expert set.
It isn't that odd of a card. As we've seen in this very set, black can get wrath effects. Why can't we get Damnation (or at least a black Day of Judgment)?
Yes there might be a wrath effect in black in JOU, "Extinguish all Hope," but keep in mind that it's in the realm of 6+ mana, which is basically the breaking point of power. You could also say that we have access to Planar Cleansing, Merciless Eviction, and Fated Retribution, but of those, only Fated Retribution sees some play, and only as a one-of because it's an instant.
Think of it with CMC categories, there are 1 drops, 2 and 3 drops, 4 and 5 drops, and then 6+ drops. What's allowed in a 2 drop is much different than what is allowed in a 1 drop, but what's allowed in a three drop isn't all that far off from what is allowed in a 2 drop. It's almost like they're a part of the same power category because ramping allows a CMC spell to be case on turn 2. While 4 and 5 drops generally have the same comparative power levels, they are significantly more powerful than 2 and 3 drops. Once you hit 6+ drops, core principles of the game start to break and you start seeing cards that could only be possible at the 6-drop level. Take Titans for example. They're ridiculous, but they're also 6-drops. I'd say there's only a few times in which a 6-drop has gone too far and became problematic, and that would be in the form of Yawgmoth's Bargain and Mind's Desire.
Black can comfortably have a 6 drop wrath that excludes enchantment creatures because it's a 6 drop, not because black is now warm and fuzzy in terms of wrath effects. As much as we'd all love for it to be reprinted, Damnnation is time-shifted for a reason.
You can look at Consume the Meek and Black Sun's Zenith, and even Killing Wave and Mutilate, as well as Drown in Sorrow to a lesser extent as black board wipes, but to explicitly say, "Destroy all creatures," is something that will be reserved to Damnation alone at 4 CMC.
You can look at Consume the Meek and Black Sun's Zenith, and even Killing Wave and Mutilate, as well as Drown in Sorrow to a lesser extent as black board wipes, but to explicitly say, "Destroy all creatures," is something that will be reserved to Damnation alone at 4 CMC.
I guess that I'll just have to hope that you are wrong.
It isn't that odd of a card. As we've seen in this very set, black can get wrath effects. Why can't we get Damnation (or at least a black Day of Judgment)?
Why should Damnation or a variant be printed in this set, aside from reducing its trading price? I certainly don't want black decks to get that card or Esper control to have access to verdicts 5-8. Both of those decks are potent and stifling enough without the card.
I was talking in general in response to Damnation being out of place because it was from Planar Chaos. Also, Esper's manabase couldn't handle Damnation, Sphinx's Revelation, and Damnation pretty well. Even Modern fetch-shock manabases aren't that good.
If Esper manabases can handle Hero's Downfall, they can definitely handle 2BB for Damnation. Again, Mono-B doesn't need a wrath to go with all of their instant speed removal.
It isn't that odd of a card. As we've seen in this very set, black can get wrath effects. Why can't we get Damnation (or at least a black Day of Judgment)?
Why should Damnation or a variant be printed in this set, aside from reducing its trading price? I certainly don't want black decks to get that card or Esper control to have access to verdicts 5-8. Both of those decks are potent and stifling enough without the card.
I was talking in general in response to Damnation being out of place because it was from Planar Chaos. Also, Esper's manabase couldn't handle Damnation, Sphinx's Revelation, and Damnation pretty well. Even Modern fetch-shock manabases aren't that good.
If Esper manabases can handle Hero's Downfall, they can definitely handle 2BB for Damnation. Again, Mono-B doesn't need a wrath to go with all of their instant speed removal.
Okay, I can agree that Monoblack doesn't need a wrath (I guess).
You can look at Consume the Meek and Black Sun's Zenith, and even Killing Wave and Mutilate, as well as Drown in Sorrow to a lesser extent as black board wipes, but to explicitly say, "Destroy all creatures," is something that will be reserved to Damnation alone at 4 CMC.
I guess that I'll just have to hope that you are wrong.
Oddly enough, I hope I'm wrong too, but at the same time I would question WotC if I was, as it just isn't in black's color pie regardless that it "almost is." Kind of like the card Harmonize. It's a green sorcery (2GG) that simply says, "Draw 3 cards." Seems weird on a nonblue card. They aren't going to print that in an expert set again, but they indeed did reprint it several times in the form of Archenemy, Commander decks, and a couple of Dual Decks. Damnation might find a spot in a special set, hopefully FTV: Annihilation, but I think Mark Rosewater has basically confirmed that they will never go back to a time-spiral-ish block.
Maybe replaces Gild in block? Depends on the deck I guess. 3 color decks probably still like Gild better just because its easier to cast. Instant is obviously preferable to a sorcery though, and the aura exiling clause could be relevant if there's lots of decks bestowing.
Man...Wizards seems to think black is still the underdog. They are giving them so many options.
Black deserves it. Do you realize what it was like playing black or predominantly black decks from Lorwyn up until Theros ? It was a disaster on huge proportions.
Man...Wizards seems to think black is still the underdog. They are giving them so many options.
Black deserves it. Do you realize what it was like playing black or predominantly black decks from Lorwyn up until Theros ? It was a disaster on huge proportions.
I hear that a lot, but I guess I don't understand why. Black has had some great removal the past few years. Jund has been a great archetype for a long time. And Lorwyn? C'mon, didn't you get Bitterblossom?
This more or less confirms Wizards stance. Removals are going to be at higher rarity. No more Doom Blades, Lightning Bolts, Journey to Nowhere at common. Milking the cash cow...
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Too bad for Gild, I think this card destroys all the chances it had to be standard playable. It isn't very efficient either, but it's an instant and potentially a 2x1 or even 3x1.
Besides that, art is brutal but the name should be "Silence the BelieBers"
Man...Wizards seems to think black is still the underdog. They are giving them so many options.
Black deserves it. Do you realize what it was like playing black or predominantly black decks from Lorwyn up until Theros ? It was a disaster on huge proportions.
I hear that a lot, but I guess I don't understand why. Black has had some great removal the past few years. Jund has been a great archetype for a long time. And Lorwyn? C'mon, didn't you get Bitterblossom?
Faeries was a blue deck that that splashed black for Bitterblossom and Thoughtseize. That's it. 2 cards.
Jund was RG deck that splashed black for Blightning, Broodmate Dragon and Terminate. This time it's 3.
Neither of your examples were predominantly black decks. They were just decks that did light splashes. The way it's been since Lorwyn is that black has gotten 1 or two really strong cards in a block but with everything else being awful usually due to high mana costs.
Exiling a creature is both white and black, as Unmake makes clear.
More to the point, this is just another card that is meant to help Black handle Gods. As others have pointed out on Iroas's thread, there's only one God likely to die to Black's normal answers to indestructible creatures (Iroas itself). To go over them briefly:
1) -x/-x effects. It's clear from Lash of the Whip that WotC did not intend for this to be the answer to gods (else they would have reprinted Pull Under or something bigger). To my knowledge, there is no 1-for-1 -x/-x card effect in Black that can kill a God (outside of Iroas).
1a) -1/-1 counters. These are disallowed by WotC's not wanting to mix +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters in the same block. So no explicit -1/-1 counters, and no Wither or Infect (which doesn't fit anyway).
2) Sacrifice effects. Since most Gods, to be creatures, will have other creatures in play (although other colored permanents are possible here), Edict effects won't kill a God unless its controller wishes to kill it.
So what is left? Exiling. As noted above, this isn't Black's most efficient removal mechanism, and by flavor it generally shows that Black can destroy something utterly. This gives us both this card and Gild in block.
This more or less confirms Wizards stance. Removals are going to be at higher rarity. No more Doom Blades, Lightning Bolts, Journey to Nowhere at common. Milking the cash cow...
Exiling a creature is both white and black, as Unmake makes clear.
Sure、it’s hybrid。But I get the feeling that the targeted exile wouldn’t have been on that card had it had no white on it。 In fact the only card to break the precedence is Gild。
If you want to see then go to MagicCards.info and type in o:"Exile target creature." into the query box。I tried linking it but it doesn’t seem to work on this site — merely links back to this thread。
Exiling a creature is both white and black, as Unmake makes clear.
Sure、it’s hybrid。But I get the feeling that the targeted exile wouldn’t have been on that card had it had no white on it。 In fact the only card to break the precedence is Gild。
If you want to see then go to MagicCards.info and type in o:"Exile target creature." into the query box。I tried linking it but it doesn’t seem to work on this site — merely links back to this thread。
No, I hate rarer removal too. It makes constructed more expensive at the sole benefit of "turn em sideways" limited gameplay.
Well I wanted to confirm my suspicions till a block or two is done. Looks like it's sad times.
I missed those days where I could give out common premium removals to newbies who wanted to learn about the game. It's definitely harder to do so. Uncommon would have been the better compromise.
Man...Wizards seems to think black is still the underdog. They are giving them so many options.
Black deserves it. Do you realize what it was like playing black or predominantly black decks from Lorwyn up until Theros ? It was a disaster on huge proportions.
I hear that a lot, but I guess I don't understand why. Black has had some great removal the past few years. Jund has been a great archetype for a long time. And Lorwyn? C'mon, didn't you get Bitterblossom?
Faeries was a blue deck that that splashed black for Bitterblossom and Thoughtseize. That's it. 2 cards.
Jund was RG deck that splashed black for Blightning, Broodmate Dragon and Terminate. This time it's 3.
Neither of your examples were predominantly black decks. They were just decks that did light splashes. The way it's been since Lorwyn is that black has gotten 1 or two really strong cards in a block but with everything else being awful usually due to high mana costs.
Ah that makes more sense now. What about other years? Weren't there a bunch of strong black vampires in Zendikar? (I don't speak from experience since I did not play during Zendikar of Scars blocks.) In Innistrad zombies was a very competitive archetype, and I know Jund did very well in RTR with some monoblack cards and several black multicolored cards.
You have to remember that Consume the Meek existed too, as did Black Sun's Zenith. Black does get cheaper wrath effects too.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I guess that I'll just have to hope that you are wrong.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
If Esper manabases can handle Hero's Downfall, they can definitely handle 2BB for Damnation. Again, Mono-B doesn't need a wrath to go with all of their instant speed removal.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
Okay, I can agree that Monoblack doesn't need a wrath (I guess).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Oddly enough, I hope I'm wrong too, but at the same time I would question WotC if I was, as it just isn't in black's color pie regardless that it "almost is." Kind of like the card Harmonize. It's a green sorcery (2GG) that simply says, "Draw 3 cards." Seems weird on a nonblue card. They aren't going to print that in an expert set again, but they indeed did reprint it several times in the form of Archenemy, Commander decks, and a couple of Dual Decks. Damnation might find a spot in a special set, hopefully FTV: Annihilation, but I think Mark Rosewater has basically confirmed that they will never go back to a time-spiral-ish block.
Why does everyone keep saying this!?!
If gods are creatures you've probably lost already unless you're running supreme verdict and probably not running black
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
I hear that a lot, but I guess I don't understand why. Black has had some great removal the past few years. Jund has been a great archetype for a long time. And Lorwyn? C'mon, didn't you get Bitterblossom?
Expect Pacifism to return as uncommon in M15.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
This is a cool card.
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
Besides that, art is brutal but the name should be "Silence the BelieBers"
Jund was RG deck that splashed black for Blightning, Broodmate Dragon and Terminate. This time it's 3.
Neither of your examples were predominantly black decks. They were just decks that did light splashes. The way it's been since Lorwyn is that black has gotten 1 or two really strong cards in a block but with everything else being awful usually due to high mana costs.
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
More to the point, this is just another card that is meant to help Black handle Gods. As others have pointed out on Iroas's thread, there's only one God likely to die to Black's normal answers to indestructible creatures (Iroas itself). To go over them briefly:
1) -x/-x effects. It's clear from Lash of the Whip that WotC did not intend for this to be the answer to gods (else they would have reprinted Pull Under or something bigger). To my knowledge, there is no 1-for-1 -x/-x card effect in Black that can kill a God (outside of Iroas).
1a) -1/-1 counters. These are disallowed by WotC's not wanting to mix +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters in the same block. So no explicit -1/-1 counters, and no Wither or Infect (which doesn't fit anyway).
2) Sacrifice effects. Since most Gods, to be creatures, will have other creatures in play (although other colored permanents are possible here), Edict effects won't kill a God unless its controller wishes to kill it.
So what is left? Exiling. As noted above, this isn't Black's most efficient removal mechanism, and by flavor it generally shows that Black can destroy something utterly. This gives us both this card and Gild in block.
Welcome to a year and a half ago with RTR.
No, I hate rarer removal too. It makes constructed more expensive at the sole benefit of "turn em sideways" limited gameplay.
Sure、it’s hybrid。But I get the feeling that the targeted exile wouldn’t have been on that card had it had no white on it。 In fact the only card to break the precedence is Gild。
If you want to see then go to MagicCards.info and type in o:"Exile target creature." into the query box。I tried linking it but it doesn’t seem to work on this site — merely links back to this thread。
Sever The Bloodline
Dark Impostor
Edit: Huh, same problem. New forum issues.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
Well I wanted to confirm my suspicions till a block or two is done. Looks like it's sad times.
I missed those days where I could give out common premium removals to newbies who wanted to learn about the game. It's definitely harder to do so. Uncommon would have been the better compromise.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Ah that makes more sense now. What about other years? Weren't there a bunch of strong black vampires in Zendikar? (I don't speak from experience since I did not play during Zendikar of Scars blocks.) In Innistrad zombies was a very competitive archetype, and I know Jund did very well in RTR with some monoblack cards and several black multicolored cards.
Recent and unwelcome innovations… :-Þ
Kidding。
I stand corrected!