You know when Elspeth was spoiled people said making 3 1/1's was not impactful enough for a turn 6 play. This card will be played in the right deck. Think we have just gotten very bad at evaluating cards in context. This is a follow up to Jace play. And with each turn that goes by this card keeps generating more and more advantage. Honestly you can softly lock a game down between this and Architect of thought if you have any experience with aggro-control.
Can you imagine a deck where your lightning strikes do 6 damage? 3 of which is uncounterable. Magma Jet is much more relevant lategame with this card. And the massive difference between this and a Courser like effect is that your opponent only learns the card you have once your turn starts, instead of being able to set up their game on their own turn by seeing the top of the deck.
Just consider this scenario. You play courser, opponent learns your next card, plans their turn accordingly after you end turn. When your next turn starts they have seen at the least 2 cards if not 3. When you play Keranos they get no immediate information. They play their turn normally and only get information once your turn starts. It's a pretty significant difference.
I like this card but honestly only seems strong against midrange style decks. Obviously too slow against aggro, and I kind of hate this card in control mirrors. I just don't feel like there is a good time to play this. If they play their Jace first you're already at a considerable advantage when you counter it. And Keranos would be an excellent follow up play, if you went first, so Jace is just more consistent. And playing this after a Sphinx's Revelation actually seems like a decent way to mitigate their lifegain. The most obvious follow up is them Detention Sphering him when you're tapped out in this scenario. But I also like taxing their precious D-spheres since planeswalkers are already difficult for them to deal with. What is a planeswalker except for a permanent that steadily and consistently generates card advantage? This is basically a planeswalker with two relevant abilities that you can marginally control through scrying, which will be even more prevalent with patrick the starfish, but also a planeswalker that can't be burned or attacked away, but also can't absorb damage for you.
After considering this card in context, which I highly recommend people start doing, I think this is an excellent card in the proper deck. If you can stabilize, this guy will turn the game around, which is the purpose of 5 and 6 drops.
I don't get how people could say he's bad. He's an indestructible enchantment that can be a creature and pretty much says draw an extra land each turn or deal 3 damage for free way turn. That's bad?
To be fair, 5-mana enchantments that don't do anything until you untap have traditionally been very bad, even if their effect is powerful.
I'm not saying Keranos is bad, but I can definitely see why some people would.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Seriously, imagine this guy in a control deck. Grixis, UWR, whatever. Imagine having him out in a long, drawn out game. Now imagine how quickly he would turn it around for you once he hits the board and starts either (a) bolting creatures, Planeswalkers, or your opponent or (b) goes to great lengths to prevent you from being stuck topdecking only land by rewarding you with an additional draw. He is board control incarnate. The fact that you can make him a creature with enough devotion is just a bonus.
Heck, I could even see Mono U decks splashing red to add Keranos in there. It would give them much needed card draw AND removal.
Grixis Control:
Turn 1: Thoughtseize
Turn 2: Dreadbore
Turn 3: Anger of the Gods
Turn 4: Mogis, God of Slaughter
Turn 5: Keranos, God of Storms
...
...
...
Mogis deals 2 damage a turn. Keronas deals 3 or draws you another removal spell to keep the board clean.
And, Dictate of the Twin Gods would shorten the clock considerably.
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"Because we cannot prevent draws in paper Magic we allow IDs. If we could prevent draws we would not have IDs in paper Magic. " Scott Larabee.
Then I re-read it and realized I made a mistake in my first reading... you only reveal the first card you draw on a turn, so you don't keep drawing until you reveal a non-land card.
That would have been absolutely ridiculous: every turn you're guaranteed to do 3 damage an draw at least a non-land card and possibly a land card (or more than one).
As it is... it still seems pretty good. Definitely good in any kind of Niv-Mizzet deck, I think.
I don't get how people could say he's bad. He's an indestructible enchantment that can be a creature and pretty much says draw an extra land each turn or deal 3 damage for free way turn. That's bad?
To be fair, 5-mana enchantments that don't do anything until you untap have traditionally been very bad, even if their effect is powerful.
I'm not saying Keranos is bad, but I can definitely see why some people would.
First 5 mana enchantment I can think of is Assemble the Legion. The "deal with this or die" card. Keranos will draw an answer or they will get so much advantage that he'll be worth the cost.
Only downside I can see with him is that he is revealing what you draw giving away any surprises you are holding. Crucial if you are holding countermagic. Still he's a god and a pain in the butt to remove. Welcome Keranos! =D
If you guys think this is going to be a savior for all the joke non u/w control decks, you're just getting your hopes up. It's just another card that all the 'izzet burn' players are going to be jumping to try and make their tier 4 deck a little better. I don't know about you guys, but I want my five drops to have an immediate impact - when exactly are you going to play this card? Toss it out on turn 5, just to get run over by any aggro deck and midrange deck? Or save it for after you do Blah and Blah so you don't die, and hope your opponent has zero relevant plays?
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a pretty strong (though obvious) design, but I feel like it's going to be a lot better in EDH.
I'm actually pretty impressed, this seems Standard playable. Personal Howling Mine or Bolt factory, has synergy with Burn spells, Scry and taking extra turns (Ral Zarek anyone?). Doesn't do the whole "instant or sorcery" bit directly, but still seems playable alongside Steam Augury and Spellheart Chimera if you're into that sort of thing (and I know I am).
One great thing about this card is that if you need to kill something fat, you could use Keranos trigger + another burn spell to get the job done without 2-for-1'ing yourself.
If you need something like this to help you win when you ult Ral, you're doing something terribly, terribly wrong.
Standard - I don't see the appeal. He is a 5 drop that maybe does 3 dmg t6. Stormbreath does 8 by that point, so I'm not sure what people are taking about saying URneeds something to top the curve. Also, in a format wit Rev, I have yet to have the problem of not drawing enough cards.
For now, I'd compare it to Assemble the Legion. That saw situational constructed play before falling by the wayside. At an equal cost and with a somewhat comparable effect, Keranos seems similarly powerful, but the change in color feels significant. Are blue mages willing to tap out on turn five for the delayed effect on turn six? Unless I knew what my next card was, I wouldn't be thrilled about it. As for the effects themselves, the draw is nice, but rarely has a 1-sided, conditional Howling Mine seen play at such a high cost. The bolt doesn't take care of any of the big, bag bogeymen running around Standard right now and pointing it at my opponent's face seems like a waste. As a bonus, Keranos isn't likely to ever turn into a creature in the decks that seem most likely to play him. It bears testing, but, for now, Keranos seems fringe playable at best.
For now, I'd compare it to Assemble the Legion. That saw situational constructed play before falling by the wayside.
Assemble the Legion still sees plenty of constructed play as a SB option vs. B/x Devotion. Many R/W/x decks have fallen off the radar, which is why it's rarely seen anymore, but the few decks that are there will continue to use it even if not main decked.
Three cheers for Keranos NOT having an ability instantly recognized as terrible!
hip-hip! HOORAY!!!
hip-hip! HOORAY!!!
hip-hip! HOORAY!!!
At first glance, I am very excited to see him in action. I'll have to settle down and look at the rest of the spoilers before I think more deeply.
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COMMANDER DECKS
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Surrak Presents: Snow-where to Run (A Temur Production)
Zurgo - Mardu Warrior Tribal
Gisa and Geralf
Jhoira's Artifacts
I'm probably going to try him in my Izzet build. Certainly keeps the gas running hot late game, which is what the deck sorely needs (Among some better form of early game disruption). Honestly one of the few gods who's utility isn't determined solely by turning him on as a creature, which is good for the colors.
This card is bad. Not sure why everyone is getting so excited about it. It will not see competitive play. It is NOT comparable to Assemble the Legion or a planeswalker. Assemble the Legion builds up board advantage over several turns and will eventually take over the game by itself, which is why it's good. It is inevitability. Keranos is not. He draws you a little less than half a card each turn (assuming you're running him in a control deck with 26-27 lands) and deals a little more than 1.5 damage (half a Lightning Bolt). On top of that, you don't get to choose which mode you get. Scrying only helps so much. What if you need a bolt to keep from dying and you have a land pocket on top of your deck? You're still screwed. That inconsistency is a big problem. Now compare that to Jace, Sphinx's Revelation, or Assemble the Legion. Those always do the same thing, regardless of what's on top of your deck, and are just more powerful on top of that.
I really like this card. It works with scry perfectly, it gives you card advantage and it bolts. The art is awesome as well, I can't wait to see one foil.
I was initially quite impressed, but after a few minutes of looking at the card later the impressiveness sort of faded.
Yes, it's an indestructible enchantment that either nets you a card or a bolt a turn. But it seems too much effort to go way out to arrange it for that advantage when you want it, especially when it costs 5 mana.
Still, I will not rule out the possibility it will see play as a 1-of in some decks. I see the card functioning better as a 1-of bonus card then something to be built around. Which also applies to EDH, where it is better as 1 of the 99.
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From an eternal standpoint, I'm not sure how to feel about this guy. The effect is incredibly strong, particularly if you pair it with Jace or Top so that you can choose which effect you want each turn. In older formats, bolt takes out a much wider variety of threats, too. Being indestructible and not an artifact or creature normally means it will be very hard for the opponent to remove, so once you get it out there, you're in value town.
Man, though, that casting cost. Five-drop is rough for older formats, particularly Legacy. In Vintage, with all of its mana acceleration, five drops do get played (Tezz?) but they tend to win right away.
Man, I dunno. This guy is just on the fence of being amazing, but he might cost 2 mana too much...
EDIT: Some ebay pre-sale prices are close to 15 - 20, which seems way, waaaay to much for this guy. I guess he's gonna be a wait-and-see.
So, now that we have all 5 Grixis gods.....they deal a LOT of damage over time. Since standard games are all over by turn, what, 2 these days, that could never happen. But in an alternate format where agro didn't dominate, God Control could be a really fun deck. I might make a God EDH deck. Lead of course, by Karona, the False God.
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I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
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Can you imagine a deck where your lightning strikes do 6 damage? 3 of which is uncounterable. Magma Jet is much more relevant lategame with this card. And the massive difference between this and a Courser like effect is that your opponent only learns the card you have once your turn starts, instead of being able to set up their game on their own turn by seeing the top of the deck.
Just consider this scenario. You play courser, opponent learns your next card, plans their turn accordingly after you end turn. When your next turn starts they have seen at the least 2 cards if not 3. When you play Keranos they get no immediate information. They play their turn normally and only get information once your turn starts. It's a pretty significant difference.
I like this card but honestly only seems strong against midrange style decks. Obviously too slow against aggro, and I kind of hate this card in control mirrors. I just don't feel like there is a good time to play this. If they play their Jace first you're already at a considerable advantage when you counter it. And Keranos would be an excellent follow up play, if you went first, so Jace is just more consistent. And playing this after a Sphinx's Revelation actually seems like a decent way to mitigate their lifegain. The most obvious follow up is them Detention Sphering him when you're tapped out in this scenario. But I also like taxing their precious D-spheres since planeswalkers are already difficult for them to deal with. What is a planeswalker except for a permanent that steadily and consistently generates card advantage? This is basically a planeswalker with two relevant abilities that you can marginally control through scrying, which will be even more prevalent with patrick the starfish, but also a planeswalker that can't be burned or attacked away, but also can't absorb damage for you.
After considering this card in context, which I highly recommend people start doing, I think this is an excellent card in the proper deck. If you can stabilize, this guy will turn the game around, which is the purpose of 5 and 6 drops.
To be fair, 5-mana enchantments that don't do anything until you untap have traditionally been very bad, even if their effect is powerful.
I'm not saying Keranos is bad, but I can definitely see why some people would.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
He's about drawing cards and casting Lightning Bolts.
And, Dictate of the Twin Gods would shorten the clock considerably.
Then I re-read it and realized I made a mistake in my first reading... you only reveal the first card you draw on a turn, so you don't keep drawing until you reveal a non-land card.
That would have been absolutely ridiculous: every turn you're guaranteed to do 3 damage an draw at least a non-land card and possibly a land card (or more than one).
As it is... it still seems pretty good. Definitely good in any kind of Niv-Mizzet deck, I think.
First 5 mana enchantment I can think of is Assemble the Legion. The "deal with this or die" card. Keranos will draw an answer or they will get so much advantage that he'll be worth the cost.
Only downside I can see with him is that he is revealing what you draw giving away any surprises you are holding. Crucial if you are holding countermagic. Still he's a god and a pain in the butt to remove. Welcome Keranos! =D
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True i just wanted him to be more about instants and sorcieries i guess
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a pretty strong (though obvious) design, but I feel like it's going to be a lot better in EDH.
If you need something like this to help you win when you ult Ral, you're doing something terribly, terribly wrong.
hip-hip!
HOORAY!!!
hip-hip!
HOORAY!!!
hip-hip!
HOORAY!!!
At first glance, I am very excited to see him in action. I'll have to settle down and look at the rest of the spoilers before I think more deeply.
COMMANDER DECKS
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Surrak Presents: Snow-where to Run (A Temur Production)
Zurgo - Mardu Warrior Tribal
Gisa and Geralf
Jhoira's Artifacts
Standard: UBR Grixis Control
Modern: U Merfolk
Commander: UB Wydwen, the biting gale
Yes, it's an indestructible enchantment that either nets you a card or a bolt a turn. But it seems too much effort to go way out to arrange it for that advantage when you want it, especially when it costs 5 mana.
Still, I will not rule out the possibility it will see play as a 1-of in some decks. I see the card functioning better as a 1-of bonus card then something to be built around. Which also applies to EDH, where it is better as 1 of the 99.
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Cockatrice name: Ninja Nate
Man, though, that casting cost. Five-drop is rough for older formats, particularly Legacy. In Vintage, with all of its mana acceleration, five drops do get played (Tezz?) but they tend to win right away.
Man, I dunno. This guy is just on the fence of being amazing, but he might cost 2 mana too much...
EDIT: Some ebay pre-sale prices are close to 15 - 20, which seems way, waaaay to much for this guy. I guess he's gonna be a wait-and-see.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?