This might be crazy but, how about running Keranos, God of Storms in Ajani Vengeant's slot in Modern U/W/R control? He probably wouldn't really work because the deck has no way to manipulate the top of your library, but I'd be interested in testing him to see.
Edit: I read the first few pages of this thread, then skipped to the end and posted this. I just noticed the person before me posted a similar thought, so maybe it's not too crazy.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I believe this will be a more reliable wincon in U/W/R control in modern than colonnade which costs 5 mana to activate every turn. You can play this and keep cryptic mana up just as well as you can activate a colonnade and do the same. Whereas the land can be pathed, tech edged, terminated, and so forth. This indestructible enchantment will be on the battlefield until you can snap+bolt+keranos them for the win. -Zanzabar21
I might be on the same page on this as you are. I plan on testing Keranos out in Modern U/W/R control myself, I just wish the deck had some way to manipulate the top of it's library to give you a better chance of getting the effect you want out of him. I'm not sure if I'm sold enough on him to start swapping Electrolyzes for Magma Jets, but I guess that's what testing is for.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I disagree. I believe this will be a more reliable wincon in U/W/R control in modern than colonnade which costs 5 mana to activate every turn. You can play this and keep cryptic mana up just as well as you can activate a colonnade and do the same. Whereas the land can be pathed, tech edged, terminated, and so forth. This indestructible enchantment will be on the battlefield until you can snap+bolt+keranos them for the win.
There's plenty of removal for this sucker if it starts showing up in decks, but I don't think it will come to that.
I disagree. I believe this will be a more reliable wincon in U/W/R control in modern than colonnade which costs 5 mana to activate every turn. You can play this and keep cryptic mana up just as well as you can activate a colonnade and do the same. Whereas the land can be pathed, tech edged, terminated, and so forth. This indestructible enchantment will be on the battlefield until you can snap+bolt+keranos them for the win.
There's plenty of removal for this sucker if it starts showing up in decks, but I don't think it will come to that.
I am not sure you can afford sideboard space for exile enchantment effects when 8/10 of your cards have to be against pod and twin, and the rest of the board has to be against storm and tron. The format is also so diverse that your sideboard slots have to pull double duty a lot of the time. Meaning that you really don't have room for everything you want already. The mirror would run detention sphere as a 1 or 2 of maybe, but that isn't much of a worry.
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I disagree. I believe this will be a more reliable wincon in U/W/R control in modern than colonnade which costs 5 mana to activate every turn. You can play this and keep cryptic mana up just as well as you can activate a colonnade and do the same. Whereas the land can be pathed, tech edged, terminated, and so forth. This indestructible enchantment will be on the battlefield until you can snap+bolt+keranos them for the win.
There's plenty of removal for this sucker if it starts showing up in decks, but I don't think it will come to that.
I'm not sure it will come to that either, because I'm not sure Keranos will actually be good in U/W/R control, but there are a lot less ways to remove Keranos than there are ways to remove Ajani Vengeant, which is the card I would cut to make room. Also, the removal that would work on Ajani V. is much more diverse than the removal that would work on Keranos, especially since he'll never become a creature in the deck (no Path to Exile). If people start siding in enchantment exile, all the better for us, also good luck beating most of the other decks in Modern when you've removed a more diverse/powerful sideboard option so that you could deal with my 1 or 2 of Keranos.
Edit: As far as being a better wincon than Celestial Colonnade...I don't think it matters because there is no reason to remove the Colonnades. One of the problems I sometimes have with Modern U/W/R control is, it can take forever to kill someone with nothing but Snapcaster beats, Colonnades and burn (which usually acts as removal), Keranos would give us another clock (a difficult one to deal with at that), while also giving the deck some additional draw power (right now it usually just runs a couple of Sphinx's Revelations).
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Not terrible, but it's 5 mana (high end for Gods), does nothing for a full turn, will often not give you what you need at the time (card draw versus direct damage), and is in an awkward colour combination. I don't think it will be very big.
Upon having time to digest this card, I agree with those that say 5 is teetering on making this "not good." I won't say its terrible, because its not. Three CMC would have made this overpowered. I believe 4 would have been just right.
In fact, I think Keranos' and Iroas' CMCs should be switched. Red-White is already an aggressive, flood-the-board color combo. Having a 4 drop that can already be turned on as a 7 power creature when it hits AND gives his entire army evasion is a bit too aggressive in my book.
Considering Keranos doesn't even do anything for an entire turn is an issue with which to be dealt. I think these gods would have been more balanced if Iroas cost 5 and Keranos cost 4, allowing them to essentially affect the board on the same potential turn (5th) (theoretically, of course).
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COMMANDER DECKS
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Surrak Presents: Snow-where to Run (A Temur Production)
Zurgo - Mardu Warrior Tribal
Gisa and Geralf
Jhoira's Artifacts
I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
One of the few cards that's going to skip Standard and go right to Modern. UR is a staple Modern color combo.
UR isn't a colour that can afford to tap out for a 5CMC card that doesn't do anything until you untap with it.
Maybe it'll work in some kind of Top Control shell with that Dakra Mystic, Think Twice, Thought Scour, Electrolyze, or whatever other instant-speed draw you can think of. I really want to make it happen, but it'd barely work at 4 CMC, let alone 5.
Edit: "On each of your turns". Damn it. Was that really necessary?
Basically, if you want to open packs to get cards for Standard and Modern, the simpler approach is to just buy all the singles you need and then set some money on fire to make up the difference.
As much as I love his abilities, I can't honestly see U/R being able to push out enough permanents to keep him a creature (in standard)
Indeed. He comes out too late for his abilities to matter, and the color combination doesn't really push enough permanents to make him a threat. I don't think this card has a home outside of Commander.
late = control's game
keranos, to me, isn't meta game changing, but certainly game-breaking in a control u/w/r shell; both of his abilities are relevant (draw cards, or bolt a creature [and we all know a great target in our current meta right now] or a player).
especially with dissolve as a staple in control, it helps you fix your draws.
scry lands, they also help fix your draws. and after jace's -2 ability, you can drop a scryland and go to town.
depending on a "maybe" should only occur once you're on the edge of losing. we all had times where what we receive in our topdeck is out of our control. during the drawstep without keranos, you do not depend on the action of you drawing a single card (no matter what it is) will help you out of a situation, so why would you here? because it doesn't do what you want? neither does the top of the deck. keranos adds another dimension of play just like the other gods do.
the only time keranos is not very effective is when you skip your draw step. from what we have seen from cards like erebos and purphoros, the gods do not have to be creatures to be as effective. actually, the gods are more vulnerable as creatures than they are as enchantments. it is sometimes may be a blessing in disguise.
I playtested this in just one game yesterday. He came down with JTMS on the board, and i followed him with niv mizzet. Obviously this is something of an extreme board state, and Jace can feed Keranos whatever I want (more cards, always).
Less obviously, my deck had a beater for once, and thatvwas pretty exciting. My opponent solved my state the following turn, though, with All is Dust.
Im starting to test this in RIP-Helm Miracles as a one-of. It pitches to Force and is able to be E-tutored. Top also helps us either draw 2 or bolt, whichever we need at the moment. The random upside is that it can become a creature between things like Counterbalance and Jace.
On board, Thassa, Jace AoT, Ral, Keranos == active Thassa and Keranos, way to manipulate library for Keranos lightning strike and use Ral's lightning strike ability : 17dmg after attacks and a successful Keranos trigger and Ral minus ability.
He is going to be worked into my grixis deck one way or another.
I can see this in a control deck either main boarding one or having one in the side board or at least two. His ability will be a good thing in a late game I need to kill my opponent now way of thinking.
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Edit: I read the first few pages of this thread, then skipped to the end and posted this. I just noticed the person before me posted a similar thought, so maybe it's not too crazy.
I might be on the same page on this as you are. I plan on testing Keranos out in Modern U/W/R control myself, I just wish the deck had some way to manipulate the top of it's library to give you a better chance of getting the effect you want out of him. I'm not sure if I'm sold enough on him to start swapping Electrolyzes for Magma Jets, but I guess that's what testing is for.
And you've only put one in your seventy-five.
There's plenty of removal for this sucker if it starts showing up in decks, but I don't think it will come to that.
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
I am not sure you can afford sideboard space for exile enchantment effects when 8/10 of your cards have to be against pod and twin, and the rest of the board has to be against storm and tron. The format is also so diverse that your sideboard slots have to pull double duty a lot of the time. Meaning that you really don't have room for everything you want already. The mirror would run detention sphere as a 1 or 2 of maybe, but that isn't much of a worry.
I'm not sure it will come to that either, because I'm not sure Keranos will actually be good in U/W/R control, but there are a lot less ways to remove Keranos than there are ways to remove Ajani Vengeant, which is the card I would cut to make room. Also, the removal that would work on Ajani V. is much more diverse than the removal that would work on Keranos, especially since he'll never become a creature in the deck (no Path to Exile). If people start siding in enchantment exile, all the better for us, also good luck beating most of the other decks in Modern when you've removed a more diverse/powerful sideboard option so that you could deal with my 1 or 2 of Keranos.
Edit: As far as being a better wincon than Celestial Colonnade...I don't think it matters because there is no reason to remove the Colonnades. One of the problems I sometimes have with Modern U/W/R control is, it can take forever to kill someone with nothing but Snapcaster beats, Colonnades and burn (which usually acts as removal), Keranos would give us another clock (a difficult one to deal with at that), while also giving the deck some additional draw power (right now it usually just runs a couple of Sphinx's Revelations).
.
In fact, I think Keranos' and Iroas' CMCs should be switched. Red-White is already an aggressive, flood-the-board color combo. Having a 4 drop that can already be turned on as a 7 power creature when it hits AND gives his entire army evasion is a bit too aggressive in my book.
Considering Keranos doesn't even do anything for an entire turn is an issue with which to be dealt. I think these gods would have been more balanced if Iroas cost 5 and Keranos cost 4, allowing them to essentially affect the board on the same potential turn (5th) (theoretically, of course).
COMMANDER DECKS
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Surrak Presents: Snow-where to Run (A Temur Production)
Zurgo - Mardu Warrior Tribal
Gisa and Geralf
Jhoira's Artifacts
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
UR isn't a colour that can afford to tap out for a 5CMC card that doesn't do anything until you untap with it.
Maybe it'll work in some kind of Top Control shell with that Dakra Mystic, Think Twice, Thought Scour, Electrolyze, or whatever other instant-speed draw you can think of. I really want to make it happen, but it'd barely work at 4 CMC, let alone 5.Edit: "On each of your turns". Damn it. Was that really necessary?
But I know exactly where this thing will make a good splash.
rug monsters.
late = control's game
keranos, to me, isn't meta game changing, but certainly game-breaking in a control u/w/r shell; both of his abilities are relevant (draw cards, or bolt a creature [and we all know a great target in our current meta right now] or a player).
especially with dissolve as a staple in control, it helps you fix your draws.
scry lands, they also help fix your draws. and after jace's -2 ability, you can drop a scryland and go to town.
depending on a "maybe" should only occur once you're on the edge of losing. we all had times where what we receive in our topdeck is out of our control. during the drawstep without keranos, you do not depend on the action of you drawing a single card (no matter what it is) will help you out of a situation, so why would you here? because it doesn't do what you want? neither does the top of the deck. keranos adds another dimension of play just like the other gods do.
the only time keranos is not very effective is when you skip your draw step. from what we have seen from cards like erebos and purphoros, the gods do not have to be creatures to be as effective. actually, the gods are more vulnerable as creatures than they are as enchantments. it is sometimes may be a blessing in disguise.
Less obviously, my deck had a beater for once, and thatvwas pretty exciting. My opponent solved my state the following turn, though, with All is Dust.
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
What will stop player from playing both this guy, Thassa, and "enablers" suhc as Frostburn Weird, Ral Zarek and UR removal-drawing goodstuff?
The strategy doesn't seem bad. But I wouldn't know.
Whether it synergizes is another question entirely.
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
On board, Thassa, Jace AoT, Ral, Keranos == active Thassa and Keranos, way to manipulate library for Keranos lightning strike and use Ral's lightning strike ability : 17dmg after attacks and a successful Keranos trigger and Ral minus ability.
He is going to be worked into my grixis deck one way or another.