Yeah, decks sometimes side in otherwise terrible lifegain cards against mono red (and all-in aggro decks), where the extra life either gives you enough breathing room to overwhelm otherwise underpowered cards or outright counters multiple burn spells. This is how Dragon's Claw, Rest for the Weary, the staff, and, yes, Heroes' Reunion have managed to see the light of day. Outside of this corner case, however, these cards are unplayable for exactly the reasons the post you quoted laid out.
If a card shows up as a four-of in a first place finishing deck, shouldn't that ruin your objective label of "terrible"? The only argument I can see for labeling a card as "terrible" is if there is a card that performs the same function but arguably more efficiently in the same format (like if Insatiable Harpy and Vampire Nighthawk were in the same format.)
Having a place in the format is not the same as being a good card. See: One with Nothing, a sideboard card against Owling Mine. By focusing on individual metagames, you're moving further away from the original point, which was that, as a component of an overall strategy, pure lifegain cards suck and always have, making another hypothetical printing of Heroes' Reunion rather undesirable.
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"I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity; in our common stupidity."
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
That's a pretty narrow view of card power. Cards that always see heavy play no matter what are kind of overpowered and tend to be seriously format warping. It's ok if not every card has a power over 9000. Sure, strong cards are fun, but situationally good cards are generally better for the game and are pretty interesting reprint candidates because you won't know whether they'll be useful this time or not without trying them out. I mean, I like Thoughtsieze, Lightning Bolt, and Snapcaster as much as anyone, but that kind of power wouldn't be healthy for the game all the time. Like Zendikar limited showed, sometimes a bad Healing Salve can actually be pretty sweet. Change is good because otherwise Magic might not be so much fun if it was always the same.
Yeah, decks sometimes side in otherwise terrible lifegain cards against mono red (and all-in aggro decks), where the extra life either gives you enough breathing room to overwhelm otherwise underpowered cards or outright counters multiple burn spells. This is how Dragon's Claw, Rest for the Weary, the staff, and, yes, Heroes' Reunion have managed to see the light of day. Outside of this corner case, however, these cards are unplayable for exactly the reasons the post you quoted laid out.
If a card shows up as a four-of in a first place finishing deck, shouldn't that ruin your objective label of "terrible"? The only argument I can see for labeling a card as "terrible" is if there is a card that performs the same function but arguably more efficiently in the same format (like if Insatiable Harpy and Vampire Nighthawk were in the same format.)
Having a place in the format is not the same as being a good card. See: One with Nothing, a sideboard card against Owling Mine. By focusing on individual metagames, you're moving further away from the original point, which was that, as a component of an overall strategy, pure lifegain cards suck and always have, making another hypothetical printing of Heroes' Reunion rather undesirable.
Again, you're oversimplifying the situation. Having a place in the format is exactly what defines a good card. That's why when Desecration Demon and Nightveil Spector came out everyone lamented how bad they were...until they were in virtually every top 10 list for months. Now people can't get enough of those cards. This situation has repeated itself countless times over Magic's history: a new card comes out, people say it sucks, then the card finds a place in a deck archetype and everyone changes their minds. The term "overall strategy" is a rather vague and un-useful term. "Pure lifegain cards suck and always have." People said the same thing about cards that give your opponent a choice until Desecration Demon came along. Now I'm not saying pure lifegain cards have proven to be the strongest cards out there, but they serve a purpose. That's why I don't get the whining over Heroes' Reunion.
Again, you're oversimplifying the situation. Having a place in the format is exactly what defines a good card. That's why when Desecration Demon and Nightveil Spector came out everyone lamented how bad they were...until they were in virtually every top 10 list for months. Now people can't get enough of those cards. This situation has repeated itself countless times over Magic's history: a new card comes out, people say it sucks, then the card finds a place in a deck archetype and everyone changes their minds. The term "overall strategy" is a rather vague and un-useful term. "Pure lifegain cards suck and always have." People said the same thing about cards that give your opponent a choice until Desecration Demon came along. Now I'm not saying pure lifegain cards have proven to be the strongest cards out there, but they serve a purpose. That's why I don't get the whining over Heroes' Reunion.
"I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity; in our common stupidity."
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
ok so i've been thinking about the card art......
posted them in this imgur gallery- http://imgur.com/a/6PK1V
the one w/ heliod I think is
Divinity of Heliod
as for the Kruphix above the temple on the waterfall... Dawn / Dawning of Kruphix?
the gs one is obviously Godsend , my guess is legendary weapon artifact
the ajani/elspeth one i can see as Strength of Heroes ..maybe something like the mechanic is "tokens you control get + x/x where x is the # of planeswalker you control"
One With Nothing is a terrible card except for when the meta makes it no longer terrible (Owling Mine), similarly Pure Lifegain sucks until the game is a race with damage. Right now, there is no RDW/Blitz Aggro deck running around making pure lifegain valuable. The example with a Staff of the Lucky Charms was due to sideboards against faster decks, if I remember right. Which lets the game slow down enough to win. Which is one place lifegain works.
But there are very few cards in the game that are, 100% certainly, bad. The same way there are no cards that are with 100% certainty good, there are cards that get very close to that label, but none that reach it.
the ajani/elspeth one i can see as Strength of Heroes ..maybe something like the mechanic is "tokens you control get + x/x where x is the # of planeswalker you control"
I doubt that, but I hope you're right-
My 5 color Superfriends deck would *love* that!
I also need a variant of Collective Restraint that mentions Planeswalkers
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Right now, there is no RDW/Blitz Aggro deck running around making pure lifegain valuable. The example with a Staff of the Lucky Charms was due to sideboards against faster decks, if I remember right.
Uhh, R/W Burn? That was 100% the reason the staff became a thing.
Right now, there is no RDW/Blitz Aggro deck running around making pure lifegain valuable. The example with a Staff of the Lucky Charms was due to sideboards against faster decks, if I remember right.
Uhh, R/W Burn? That was 100% the reason the staff became a thing.
I forgot Boros Burn had upticked lately. BUT, and here's the thing about Hero's Reunion, GW isn't anywhere on the meta's table right now. Which brings us to the other reliance of a niche card like these, it has to function with a meta as it will exist. So until we see Greenjani make GW a force to fight against, that kind of lifegain would be worthless.
@Rakath: I disagree that some cards aren't inherently "good" or "bad" - regardless of meta.
A card like Black Lotus or Skullclamp will always be inherently good, while a card like Wood Elemental is (almost) always awful - and yes, those are extreme outliners, but there are a ton of cards that are barely playable in Limited (Boulderfall) while others are a complete house, even in Construted (Sphinx's Revelation).
Selesnya Aggro might sideboard Reunion, simply for the earlier turn pop to offset burn/aggro damage. Since Unflinching requires a creature and Trostani is T4. But yes, it wouldn't be mainboard.
I wasn't considering cards banned/restricted in various formats, because they are universally good to the point of obscenity. But cards like Sphinx's Revelation which is a house in Standard, wouldn't be if the meta in standard were focused differently. Wood Elemental, admittedly, would require a meta where a dedicated combo would make it work, and Boulderfall requires a meta so slow it died of boredom. So there are rare examples of cards being out and out bad but only at the absolute furthest edges of reason.
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~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
Again, you're oversimplifying the situation. Having a place in the format is exactly what defines a good card. That's why when Desecration Demon and Nightveil Spector came out everyone lamented how bad they were...until they were in virtually every top 10 list for months. Now people can't get enough of those cards. This situation has repeated itself countless times over Magic's history: a new card comes out, people say it sucks, then the card finds a place in a deck archetype and everyone changes their minds. The term "overall strategy" is a rather vague and un-useful term. "Pure lifegain cards suck and always have." People said the same thing about cards that give your opponent a choice until Desecration Demon came along. Now I'm not saying pure lifegain cards have proven to be the strongest cards out there, but they serve a purpose. That's why I don't get the whining over Heroes' Reunion.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
posted them in this imgur gallery-
http://imgur.com/a/6PK1V
the one w/ heliod I think is
Divinity of Heliod
as for the Kruphix above the temple on the waterfall... Dawn / Dawning of Kruphix?
the gs one is obviously Godsend , my guess is legendary weapon artifact
the ajani/elspeth one i can see as Strength of Heroes ..maybe something like the mechanic is "tokens you control get + x/x where x is the # of planeswalker you control"
But there are very few cards in the game that are, 100% certainly, bad. The same way there are no cards that are with 100% certainty good, there are cards that get very close to that label, but none that reach it.
I doubt that, but I hope you're right-
My 5 color Superfriends deck would *love* that!
I also need a variant of Collective Restraint that mentions Planeswalkers
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Uhh, R/W Burn? That was 100% the reason the staff became a thing.
I forgot Boros Burn had upticked lately. BUT, and here's the thing about Hero's Reunion, GW isn't anywhere on the meta's table right now. Which brings us to the other reliance of a niche card like these, it has to function with a meta as it will exist. So until we see Greenjani make GW a force to fight against, that kind of lifegain would be worthless.
Selesnya Aggro might sideboard Reunion, simply for the earlier turn pop to offset burn/aggro damage. Since Unflinching requires a creature and Trostani is T4. But yes, it wouldn't be mainboard.
I wasn't considering cards banned/restricted in various formats, because they are universally good to the point of obscenity. But cards like Sphinx's Revelation which is a house in Standard, wouldn't be if the meta in standard were focused differently. Wood Elemental, admittedly, would require a meta where a dedicated combo would make it work, and Boulderfall requires a meta so slow it died of boredom. So there are rare examples of cards being out and out bad but only at the absolute furthest edges of reason.