Honestly, aside from the expansion symbol I'm not enthused about this product whatsoever.
Why couldn't it be "Thallids vs Thopters", "Myrs vs Mages", or "Dwarves vs Thrulls" at the very least?
Even "Chocolate vs Vanilla" would've been better!
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
Heroic, itself, seems like enough of a rewarding mechanic for things like combat tricks. How can you build on that? More things like Coordinated Assault or Triton Tactics seems too narrow, while more things for casting spells during combat seems overboard.
There's a wide variety of things they could do. Many people are predicting reworked versions of older mechanics, which probably isn't too far off the mark. Battle Cry, Exalted, Bushido, Rampage, Ninjitsu, Bloodthirst, Bloodrush, Flanking, Banding, Horsemanship (and other evasion mechanics), Provoke, Battalion and others demonstrate that there's quite a wide variety of combat-oriented mechanics out there, none of which really require casting more instants and sorceries. Also keep in mind the new block will certainly have it's own themes which will guide the directions of the mechanics in ways that are still hard to predict (as they say "Restriction breeds creativity), like how almost everybody predicted an enchantment theme for Theros but I don't think anybody predicted a reworking of Chroma.
MARO did a breakdown of all the combat mechanics in existence as of Scars block and there's quite a lot:
Haste and Flash are those mechanics which make your opponent think twice before attacking with everybody, when you have absolutely nothing on the battlefield.
When has combat not mattered? RTR block had things like Bloodrush and Battalion, Battalion being very combat matters, and Theros itself has things like Inspired, Monsterous, and Heroic Thus far, all of which typically have some connection to combat. I just don't see where you're headed with that idea? If your wincon is a creature or creatures, then Combat matters theme is all over the place.
"Combat matters" is probably not the best term for it, but an emphasis on combat tricks is probable for the next block. The heroic and inspired mechanics in Theros will almost certainly work well with the themes of the next block.
I'd say a combat-trick oriented block is what they've just done. In any case, whilst consecutive blocks always complement each other in little ways, they're more likely to flip everything in a completely different direction that continue where the last block left off - look at RTR, a multicolour block, going straight in to Theros, with devotion and its emphasis on mono-colour decks. We went from all 3C decks in Standard to largely mono overnight.
They obviously do change things from block to block but what's also important is that they put mechanics in each block that they know will work well with the next block. For example, RTR had an enchantment sub-theme and many of the cards from this sub-theme have worked very well in Theros decks. Also, they didn't exactly do a 180 from RTR by going to mono-color as there is still a very strong multicolor theme to Theros block, especially when compared to previous "mono-colored" blocks. They put an abnormal amount of multicolored cards in Theros (and Innistrad too btw) in order to increase synergy with RTR.
Long story short, combat tricks will probably show up in the next block but yes they will certainly look very different than Theros block combat tricks in order to change things up.
I'd love to be able to believe it was something more creative and more indicative of the upcoming block but it really does feel like it might be something as simple as -
Haste vs. Flash
Which would mean haste focused Red based deck vs. a flash focused probably Blue based deck (with Green as one of the more likely secondary/alternate colors).
It's also important to remember that while the duel decks do often contain new "sneak peak" cards the number of those cards included in the deck are very low (1-3 per deck low) meaning that having either of the decks entirely focused around a new mechanic is unlikely (at best we might get a card showcasing the mechanic/s like in Heroes vs. Monsters and a few other cards that while decent on their own interact well with the mechanic (IE. auras in the Heroes deck partially for their interaction with heroic)).
I can't think of any hasty, awesome mythics or chase rares to be the marquee card, so it'll probably be from Huey. However, there are plenty of possibilities for Bant Flash. Snapcaster Mage is reaching, but isn't outside the realm of possibility. Same for Restoration Angel.
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Red vs Blue seems like the most logical choices from that description. Then of I had to further break it down I would say Jund vs Esper colors for these decks. I'm guessing it'll be like aggro/midrange versus tempo/control. I wish we would've gotten a little more information.
This also leads me to believe we could be seeing some new version of Ninjutsu? Maybe it can be activated on a blocking creature or something. Warriors seem like they're definitely a tribe. This is exciting, but it's still a little vague and early to tell.
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EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
I wonder how much this will reflect the themes from the fall set. I wonder if it's color oriented, or creature type oriented...
EDIT: Turns out, there aren't as many berserkers/warriors/barbarians as I imagined; at least in mono red. I would have to assume that these decks are more color based than anything.
I'd guess RG v WU just from the description, but we don't have a lot to go on.
I really do hope there is U in this though, we so rarely get to see the martial side of blue.
We've gotten a fair amount of it in Theros thanks to Meletis, but I'd love to see it front and center.
Jund Haste deck with cards like Fires of Yavimaya and Concordant Crossroads versus Mono Blue Wizards
I think you and Jason Alt on Brainstorm Brewery are quite possibly right about Fires of Yavimaya getting yet another reprint. Although Jason's suspicion is that WotC wants to see if they can get a price of a solid utility common to be worth a penny on the secondary market. Also, I think WotC would be more inclined to print Mass Hysteria over Concordant Crossroads just because of the World supertype they no longer use.
Red gets Ball Lightning, which was already redone in the Premium Deck Series: Fire and Lightning.
Goblin Guide has been suggested because Modern, but it falls into the "casual players don't get why this is good" area of card design (but see Remand as a counterpoint).
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is certainly possible, but would they reprint a $20 card that was just reprinted last year in Modern Masters? (I'm assuming Remand is the upper limit for secondary market value WotC wants to be found in prepackaged casual products.)
Lovisa Coldeyes fits into the implied Barbarian/Warrior/Beserker tribal types you could presume are in a set called Warlords of Khanar.
Ogre Battledriver seems too recent to me to see reprinted as a marquee card already.
Splinter Twin seems really out of place for the themes most duel decks have.
Tuktuk the Explorer would be financially meh in terms of attractiveness nor is he flashy enough.
Groundbreaker is a color-shifted cards and those aren't cards they tend to gravitate towards.
Assemble the Legion, while being amazing as a pseudo 5 mana planeswalker with a single ability, seems to be a weird card to suddenly consider mythic for marketing purposes.
come on goblin guide reprint.. atleast 2!!! lightning greaves with promo art....
I'm all for a non-foil version of the Lightning Greaves promo art as well, but WotC is moving away from shroud and going towards all-upside hexproof in its place. (See Commander 2013 and Swiftfoot Boots.)
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
My apologies for the drunken Necro, but I had a hankering to speculate a little more before the initial information is revealed at SDCC next week. I suppose we have less speculate on with a title so ambiguous. Heroes VS Monsters and Izzet VS Golgari certainly left less to the imagination, but I've been surprised at the relative lack of discussion of these decks in the past few months. To be honest, I forget all about them. I'm personally predicting aggro-ish VS control decks, based on that name. I'd also like to see a non-controversial-yet-mildly-exciting reprint as the face of one of the decks, like we got with Niv Mizzet 1.0 and Sun Titan.
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Godwin's Law strikes again!
Honestly, aside from the expansion symbol I'm not enthused about this product whatsoever.
Why couldn't it be "Thallids vs Thopters", "Myrs vs Mages", or "Dwarves vs Thrulls" at the very least?
Even "Chocolate vs Vanilla" would've been better!
There's a wide variety of things they could do. Many people are predicting reworked versions of older mechanics, which probably isn't too far off the mark. Battle Cry, Exalted, Bushido, Rampage, Ninjitsu, Bloodthirst, Bloodrush, Flanking, Banding, Horsemanship (and other evasion mechanics), Provoke, Battalion and others demonstrate that there's quite a wide variety of combat-oriented mechanics out there, none of which really require casting more instants and sorceries. Also keep in mind the new block will certainly have it's own themes which will guide the directions of the mechanics in ways that are still hard to predict (as they say "Restriction breeds creativity), like how almost everybody predicted an enchantment theme for Theros but I don't think anybody predicted a reworking of Chroma.
MARO did a breakdown of all the combat mechanics in existence as of Scars block and there's quite a lot:
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/129
https://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/130
Teferi vs. Kaervek
*crosses fingers for Time Spiral 2 and/or return to Dominaria*
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Feel free to tell me yours!
GGo Elf YourselfG
WThat Cat Has A Knife!W
BUGWhip your assBUG
They obviously do change things from block to block but what's also important is that they put mechanics in each block that they know will work well with the next block. For example, RTR had an enchantment sub-theme and many of the cards from this sub-theme have worked very well in Theros decks. Also, they didn't exactly do a 180 from RTR by going to mono-color as there is still a very strong multicolor theme to Theros block, especially when compared to previous "mono-colored" blocks. They put an abnormal amount of multicolored cards in Theros (and Innistrad too btw) in order to increase synergy with RTR.
Long story short, combat tricks will probably show up in the next block but yes they will certainly look very different than Theros block combat tricks in order to change things up.
Haste vs. Flash
Which would mean haste focused Red based deck vs. a flash focused probably Blue based deck (with Green as one of the more likely secondary/alternate colors).
It's also important to remember that while the duel decks do often contain new "sneak peak" cards the number of those cards included in the deck are very low (1-3 per deck low) meaning that having either of the decks entirely focused around a new mechanic is unlikely (at best we might get a card showcasing the mechanic/s like in Heroes vs. Monsters and a few other cards that while decent on their own interact well with the mechanic (IE. auras in the Heroes deck partially for their interaction with heroic)).
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I can't think of any hasty, awesome mythics or chase rares to be the marquee card, so it'll probably be from Huey. However, there are plenty of possibilities for Bant Flash. Snapcaster Mage is reaching, but isn't outside the realm of possibility. Same for Restoration Angel.
My 720 Peasant Cube
This also leads me to believe we could be seeing some new version of Ninjutsu? Maybe it can be activated on a blocking creature or something. Warriors seem like they're definitely a tribe. This is exciting, but it's still a little vague and early to tell.
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Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
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Innistrad - The Darkest Night
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[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
EDIT: Turns out, there aren't as many berserkers/warriors/barbarians as I imagined; at least in mono red. I would have to assume that these decks are more color based than anything.
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I really do hope there is U in this though, we so rarely get to see the martial side of blue.
We've gotten a fair amount of it in Theros thanks to Meletis, but I'd love to see it front and center.
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legacy: Doomsday, Dredge, BUG (shard less and still)
modern: storm, woo dredge, U-tron
EDH: maelstrom wanderer, Gisela, krenko, lazav, sharrum, sheoldred/xiahou dun, norin the wary, Thrax, Mimeoplasm, GW legends
This.
I have copies of the promo, and it's really hard to see anything. But on gatherer, it looks way nicer (except the foiling).
Sounds to me like aggro versus control; RG vs UB.
I think you and Jason Alt on Brainstorm Brewery are quite possibly right about Fires of Yavimaya getting yet another reprint. Although Jason's suspicion is that WotC wants to see if they can get a price of a solid utility common to be worth a penny on the secondary market. Also, I think WotC would be more inclined to print Mass Hysteria over Concordant Crossroads just because of the World supertype they no longer use.
I checked into what rare haste creatures could be the marquee card for the Speed portion of the deck and the list is pretty wonky: http://magiccards.info/query?q=o:Haste (r:rare) f:modern -o:suspend&v=scan&s=color. Akroma, Angel of Wrath is a good legendary creature, but she's been in a duel deck once and was reprinted as a timeshifted card already. Blue and black's offerings just feel off as marquee cards.
Red gets Ball Lightning, which was already redone in the Premium Deck Series: Fire and Lightning.
Goblin Guide has been suggested because Modern, but it falls into the "casual players don't get why this is good" area of card design (but see Remand as a counterpoint).
Hostility was in the Jace vs. Chandra deck.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is certainly possible, but would they reprint a $20 card that was just reprinted last year in Modern Masters? (I'm assuming Remand is the upper limit for secondary market value WotC wants to be found in prepackaged casual products.)
Lovisa Coldeyes fits into the implied Barbarian/Warrior/Beserker tribal types you could presume are in a set called Warlords of Khanar.
Ogre Battledriver seems too recent to me to see reprinted as a marquee card already.
Splinter Twin seems really out of place for the themes most duel decks have.
Tuktuk the Explorer would be financially meh in terms of attractiveness nor is he flashy enough.
Groundbreaker is a color-shifted cards and those aren't cards they tend to gravitate towards.
Assemble the Legion, while being amazing as a pseudo 5 mana planeswalker with a single ability, seems to be a weird card to suddenly consider mythic for marketing purposes.
Hellkite Overlord, Horde of Notions, and Lightning Angel would all work to attract casual players to pick up the set.
I'm all for a non-foil version of the Lightning Greaves promo art as well, but WotC is moving away from shroud and going towards all-upside hexproof in its place. (See Commander 2013 and Swiftfoot Boots.)
Decks:
Standard:
Gruul aggro
Modern:
MonoG infect
Edh:
Nekusar, Too bad you have to discard your deck at the end step.
Casual:
I'm trying to make tibalt work guys!
Dimir mill
I'll have you know when I saw Phenax spoiled,
I cried for only 20 minutes.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG