Everyone is talking about this card as if it's going to be cast when you're up against a control deck and they've got cards in hand as well as untapped lands. Yes, it will be hard to find a good opportunity to play this card when up against control, which is why I'd say run no more than 1 in the mainboard, and maybe another one or two in the sideboard.
If you can pull this off though, it's very worth it. Gives your creature Trample to help get damage through, gives it +3/+3 for that extra oomph, and card advantage which green doesn't get enough of. I'd say on average, when you pull it off, this card is drawing you ~4 cards, which means ~4 damage, which is a good deal.
Edit: This card would probably work best in some sort of Selesnya or Naya deck with Silence, Voice of Resurgence and Witch Stalker to help get Hunter's Prowess through along side a bunch of some cheaper, quality creatures, like Fleecemane Lion, Banisher Priest, Boon Satyr, Firefist Striker, Loxodon Smiter, and others.
It costs 5 thats simply a lot and it fails so hard against removal.
However, if you are in a race with another player and you connect with this, you probably draw a **** ton of cards, which isnt bad.
So it means you really want to be in a creature heavy mirror that hopefully doesnt have instant removal against you (or mass removal).
If you have any reasonable creature, this is "overkill" and if its too small of a creature, you might not get throu to hit.
Its extremly situnational card, but again, its super strong in Limited, where you will hit players offguard with this, i mean you cant really plan that the opponent is going to cast this turn 5 and keep removal for it all the time.
Lots of rares in this set are like that, they are pretty ****ty in constructed, but somehow still fairly usefull as "surprise" Limited cards.
Why is one leg as big as the whole body? What's that thing in the bottom right corner supposed to be? Why do the legs look so frail when the chest and arms are so muscular? What's going on with that belt? Why is she rocking a scimitar when this set is supposed to be roman/greek? Does the helmet have a hole on the back? Because the hair makes no sense either...
Other than that, I like the card
The sword is a falcata, not a scimitar. The belt and hair are lifted to show that she's moving downwards and forward as part of a jump, and the front leg is closer, makng it larger.
Another (extremely simplified) way of looking at is this:
You play Polukranos on turn four.
You cast this on turn five. Now, if your opponent has removal, you were already going to get one-for-one. If they have removal, it's a two-for-one, yeah, okay. That means your opponent has a net card advantage of one.
But if they don't, then you get to draw potentially eight cards. That's a net card advantage of seven for you.
Say that happens only 20% of the time; the other four times out of five your opponent has the Doom Blade or whatever. So, four times out of five you lose a card in advantage by casting this (that's a total of -4, we'll say). The fifth time you gain seven cards by casting this (that's a +7).
That means that the average card advantage from casting Hunter's Prowess on Polukranos on turn five would be three cards (7 - 4 = 3).
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I feel that that is an overly pessimistic scenario, even, because the odds of your opponent having the removal available AND the mana open are going to be much, much lower than 80% of the time. I could spend an hour and calculate the exact averages, including potential blockers, but I think my example makes my point very clear.
I think the point the above poster unintentionally made is that you have to lose 4 out of 5 games with this card just to win the 5th by a landslide. Virtual advantages acquired by casting a card in future games in no way or shape offset the loss of a current game by giving up a 2 for 1.
I don't hate this card and in a format where Shrine to Nyx is a thing the manacost is not quite the limiting factor it could be in other standard seasons. Even with that being the case, I can't help but believe this is a 'win more' card. If you're already heaping large chunks of damage onto your opponents head you're probably going to win the duel regardless of extra cards you could possibly have drawn because of it.
You guys need to deal with the fact that most cards are made for limited. It's pretty clearly made for that format.
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“A man's at odds to know his mind cause his mind is aught he has to know it with. He can know his heart, but he dont want to. Rightly so. Best not to look in there. It aint the heart of a creature that is bound in the way that God has set for it. You can find meanness in the least of creatures, but when God made man the devil was at his elbow. A creature that can do anything. Make a machine. And a machine to make the machine. And evil that can run itself a thousand years, no need to tend it.”
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
I think the point the above poster unintentionally made is that you have to lose 4 out of 5 games with this card just to win the 5th by a landslide. Virtual advantages acquired by casting a card in future games in no way or shape offset the loss of a current game by giving up a 2 for 1.
I don't hate this card and in a format where Shrine to Nyx is a thing the manacost is not quite the limiting factor it could be in other standard seasons. Even with that being the case, I can't help but believe this is a 'win more' card. If you're already heaping large chunks of damage onto your opponents head you're probably going to win the duel regardless of extra cards you could possibly have drawn because of it.
Against decks like mono blue/black who have good card draw/manipulation, this may not be a win more, but a I actually win card. Card advantage is massive against mono black or blue. So much so that if a black player thoughtsiezes, garruk and domri are instant picks, and thats even if they don't have the kill spell for the more immediate threats in your hand.
Every time this is played the opponent will have a hand full of removal and several untapped lands. Might as well just throw away the whole pack if you crack it and see this garbage.
That's like the opposite of Magic-Christmasland. That's like Magic Hell.
Thinking that way means no card ever will be playable if by default your opponent can just beat it.
To me this feels like kind of a win-more card, but being able to either force them into gangblocking or drawing a bunch of cards will net you a ton of advantage.
And let's be real: Even if it's an instant, they can just doom blade on attack step anyway. It doesn't change what they have or what they can cast.
I'll be trying to make it work in Standard. It seems like it has potential, especially since it gives trample in Xenagos Gruul decks.
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I didn't choose the RUG life the RUG life chose me.
I think the point the above poster unintentionally made is that you have to lose 4 out of 5 games with this card just to win the 5th by a landslide. Virtual advantages acquired by casting a card in future games in no way or shape offset the loss of a current game by giving up a 2 for 1.
I don't hate this card and in a format where Shrine to Nyx is a thing the manacost is not quite the limiting factor it could be in other standard seasons. Even with that being the case, I can't help but believe this is a 'win more' card. If you're already heaping large chunks of damage onto your opponents head you're probably going to win the duel regardless of extra cards you could possibly have drawn because of it.
i agree. if you are using a sorcery speed pump spell and swinging for 5-8 then you should already be ahead. requiring a 6-10 mana investment over multiple turns that is answered by a 2-3 mana instant isn't very compelling.
however i could see it as a sideboard option against control for card advantage. it makes your elvish mystics post wrath look less pitiful. not a staple of the format to be sure, but maybe some fringe applications.
Okay, the previous example I gave wasn't clear, so... here's another scenario, one that many of you have seen in the current Standard, and one that I believe is a more realistic example of what I'm getting at:
Green player went first. It's now turn four, and green has a good eight power on the board - pretty likely for green. They pass the turn with four mana open.
As a control player, you're facing a tough decision. If you Supreme Verdict and tap out, you leave yourself open to Boon Satyr EoT or Advent of the Wurm EoT - getting hit for four or five next turn would suck, but you have a Doom Blade in hand so you can kill it the turn after, and you'd still be ahead on card advantage. If you instead choose to not Verdict, because you want to Doom Blade a critter on the green player's turn, then you're still going to get hit for eight. The right play here usually is to Verdict; it's the safest bet.
Now, imagine that scenario... but with Hunter's Prowess in the mix. Now, if you Verdict, the green player could be hitting you for seven or even eight the next turn - and they would be refilling their entire hand with you unable to do ANYTHING about it. That would pretty much be game over for you right there, because that is a huge card advantage swing for green. However, if you don't Verdict, then you're guaranteed dead in a turn or two, without the green player having to even cast anything. So, game over that way as well. You're screwed either way, honestly.
Do you guys see now? The mere existence of Hunter's Prowess means that control is going to have to make some very radical changes to how they play, at least in the current Standard, because the existing approach is going to get them killed.
If I'm correct about all this, then Notion Thief is going to see some significant sideboard play. Also, it would explain a lot about the existence of Fate Unraveler and Spirit of the Labyrinth.
Okay, the previous example I gave wasn't clear, so... here's another scenario, one that many of you have seen in the current Standard, and one that I believe is a more realistic example of what I'm getting at:
Green player went first. It's now turn four, and green has a good eight power on the board - pretty likely for green. They pass the turn with four mana open.
As a control player, you're facing a tough decision. If you Supreme Verdict and tap out, you leave yourself open to Boon Satyr EoT or Advent of the Wurm EoT - getting hit for four or five next turn would suck, but you have a Doom Blade in hand so you can kill it the turn after, and you'd still be ahead on card advantage. If you instead choose to not Verdict, because you want to Doom Blade a critter on the green player's turn, then you're still going to get hit for eight. The right play here usually is to Verdict; it's the safest bet.
Now, imagine that scenario... but with Hunter's Prowess in the mix. Now, if you Verdict, the green player could be hitting you for seven or even eight the next turn - and they would be refilling their entire hand with you unable to do ANYTHING about it. That would pretty much be game over for you right there, because that is a huge card advantage swing for green. However, if you don't Verdict, then you're guaranteed dead in a turn or two, without the green player having to even cast anything. So, game over that way as well. You're screwed either way, honestly.
Do you guys see now? The mere existence of Hunter's Prowess means that control is going to have to make some very radical changes to how they play, at least in the current Standard, because the existing approach is going to get them killed.
If I'm correct about all this, then Notion Thief is going to see some significant sideboard play. Also, it would explain a lot about the existence of Fate Unraveler and Spirit of the Labyrinth.
So basically, when a green monsters deck is positioned well against a control deck, this is a great card. I feel like there are other cards that they could be playing that could do better if their position was this on the board.
So basically, when a green monsters deck is positioned well against a control deck, this is a great card. I feel like there are other cards that they could be playing that could do better if their position was this on the board.
I would hardly consider losing all of your creatures to a Supreme Verdict and a Doom Blade being "positioned well." Especially when you're pretty much out of gas at that point, and the control player is about to crush your face in.
But, okay, tell me: What card could a green-based aggro deck cast on turn 5 in that scenario that would do better after a board wipe than Hunter's Prowess? I'd love to hear this.
Isn't part of the answer to throw this on something other than your Big Threat? Forcing them to not use an answer on a card they really need to answer works out well.
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Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
I just noticed this card, and it seems like everyone either loves it or hates it.
It seems like it could be a very interesting sideboard card in GW, which seems desperate for card draw. The key will be making sure not to make dumb mistakes with it.
Voice of Resurgence is the only thing that could make this card viable. In a scenario where there is an open board, Annihilating Fire, Last Breath and Selesnya Charm are the only instant speed exile cards. Azorious Charm is also dangerous. Those cards exist, but it does narrow down your opponents options.
If they use a Doomblade, shock, lightning strike etc it will kill the voice and fizzle the spell. Yet, you still pick up two tokens. Even if they kill your voice you still get a +1 card advantage, and they just spent removal.
If your opponent Supreme Verdicts your voice of resurgence and runs out of mana, that harmless 1/1 elemental will swing for 4 on an open board and restock your hand.
Trample also seems nice in a world destined for Brimazes.
It costs 5 thats simply a lot and it fails so hard against removal.
However, if you are in a race with another player and you connect with this, you probably draw a **** ton of cards, which isnt bad.
So it means you really want to be in a creature heavy mirror that hopefully doesnt have instant removal against you (or mass removal).
If you have any reasonable creature, this is "overkill" and if its too small of a creature, you might not get throu to hit.
Its extremly situnational card, but again, its super strong in Limited, where you will hit players offguard with this, i mean you cant really plan that the opponent is going to cast this turn 5 and keep removal for it all the time.
Lots of rares in this set are like that, they are pretty ****ty in constructed, but somehow still fairly usefull as "surprise" Limited cards.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
The sword is a falcata, not a scimitar. The belt and hair are lifted to show that she's moving downwards and forward as part of a jump, and the front leg is closer, makng it larger.
You play Polukranos on turn four.
You cast this on turn five. Now, if your opponent has removal, you were already going to get one-for-one. If they have removal, it's a two-for-one, yeah, okay. That means your opponent has a net card advantage of one.
But if they don't, then you get to draw potentially eight cards. That's a net card advantage of seven for you.
Say that happens only 20% of the time; the other four times out of five your opponent has the Doom Blade or whatever. So, four times out of five you lose a card in advantage by casting this (that's a total of -4, we'll say). The fifth time you gain seven cards by casting this (that's a +7).
That means that the average card advantage from casting Hunter's Prowess on Polukranos on turn five would be three cards (7 - 4 = 3).
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I feel that that is an overly pessimistic scenario, even, because the odds of your opponent having the removal available AND the mana open are going to be much, much lower than 80% of the time. I could spend an hour and calculate the exact averages, including potential blockers, but I think my example makes my point very clear.
WotC, please hire me already.
I don't hate this card and in a format where Shrine to Nyx is a thing the manacost is not quite the limiting factor it could be in other standard seasons. Even with that being the case, I can't help but believe this is a 'win more' card. If you're already heaping large chunks of damage onto your opponents head you're probably going to win the duel regardless of extra cards you could possibly have drawn because of it.
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
Against decks like mono blue/black who have good card draw/manipulation, this may not be a win more, but a I actually win card. Card advantage is massive against mono black or blue. So much so that if a black player thoughtsiezes, garruk and domri are instant picks, and thats even if they don't have the kill spell for the more immediate threats in your hand.
That's like the opposite of Magic-Christmasland. That's like Magic Hell.
Thinking that way means no card ever will be playable if by default your opponent can just beat it.
To me this feels like kind of a win-more card, but being able to either force them into gangblocking or drawing a bunch of cards will net you a ton of advantage.
And let's be real: Even if it's an instant, they can just doom blade on attack step anyway. It doesn't change what they have or what they can cast.
I'll be trying to make it work in Standard. It seems like it has potential, especially since it gives trample in Xenagos Gruul decks.
i agree. if you are using a sorcery speed pump spell and swinging for 5-8 then you should already be ahead. requiring a 6-10 mana investment over multiple turns that is answered by a 2-3 mana instant isn't very compelling.
however i could see it as a sideboard option against control for card advantage. it makes your elvish mystics post wrath look less pitiful. not a staple of the format to be sure, but maybe some fringe applications.
Green player went first. It's now turn four, and green has a good eight power on the board - pretty likely for green. They pass the turn with four mana open.
As a control player, you're facing a tough decision. If you Supreme Verdict and tap out, you leave yourself open to Boon Satyr EoT or Advent of the Wurm EoT - getting hit for four or five next turn would suck, but you have a Doom Blade in hand so you can kill it the turn after, and you'd still be ahead on card advantage. If you instead choose to not Verdict, because you want to Doom Blade a critter on the green player's turn, then you're still going to get hit for eight. The right play here usually is to Verdict; it's the safest bet.
Now, imagine that scenario... but with Hunter's Prowess in the mix. Now, if you Verdict, the green player could be hitting you for seven or even eight the next turn - and they would be refilling their entire hand with you unable to do ANYTHING about it. That would pretty much be game over for you right there, because that is a huge card advantage swing for green. However, if you don't Verdict, then you're guaranteed dead in a turn or two, without the green player having to even cast anything. So, game over that way as well. You're screwed either way, honestly.
Do you guys see now? The mere existence of Hunter's Prowess means that control is going to have to make some very radical changes to how they play, at least in the current Standard, because the existing approach is going to get them killed.
WotC, please hire me already.
So basically, when a green monsters deck is positioned well against a control deck, this is a great card. I feel like there are other cards that they could be playing that could do better if their position was this on the board.
I would hardly consider losing all of your creatures to a Supreme Verdict and a Doom Blade being "positioned well." Especially when you're pretty much out of gas at that point, and the control player is about to crush your face in.
But, okay, tell me: What card could a green-based aggro deck cast on turn 5 in that scenario that would do better after a board wipe than Hunter's Prowess? I'd love to hear this.
WotC, please hire me already.
It seems like it could be a very interesting sideboard card in GW, which seems desperate for card draw. The key will be making sure not to make dumb mistakes with it.
Voice of Resurgence is the only thing that could make this card viable. In a scenario where there is an open board, Annihilating Fire, Last Breath and Selesnya Charm are the only instant speed exile cards. Azorious Charm is also dangerous. Those cards exist, but it does narrow down your opponents options.
If they use a Doomblade, shock, lightning strike etc it will kill the voice and fizzle the spell. Yet, you still pick up two tokens. Even if they kill your voice you still get a +1 card advantage, and they just spent removal.
If your opponent Supreme Verdicts your voice of resurgence and runs out of mana, that harmless 1/1 elemental will swing for 4 on an open board and restock your hand.
Trample also seems nice in a world destined for Brimazes.
Feel free to tell me yours!