"Dies to removal" is the new catchphrase, dontchaknow? Of course, that's what removal is for, so I'm not sure why people are surprised by it.
The fact that he dies to removal isn't what makes him unplayable. The fact that he dies to removal AND doesn't affect the game in any meaningful way makes him unplayable.
If I'm paying 7 mana for a creature in constructed, I want it to do something bonkers when it comes into play or leaves play or I want it to have some kind of synergy with the rest of my deck that makes it unkillable, lets me cheat it in, etc.
Um, thats when all instant speed removal is used anyway.
End of Turn so your mana is still up after their turn is over?
Being outside of Sorcery speed removal, and requiring combat investment to even attempt it opens you up for this not working and backfiring spectacularly.
It's not a Spike card, this is very much Timmy with a hint of Johnny for cruel sadistic glee. But if you're a Timmy with a Sadistic Johnny glee? You'll have fun with this.
First lets be honest they have the same converted casting cost because you never play Aetherling without protection.
Second Tromokratis does pretty much exactly what Aetherling does for less mana.
The blink ability is the only thing putting Aetherling in front of this guy.
As to how his ability is worded, yes WotC has said that's not what we meant a few times but more often that not it is what they meant.
Some of you may think that you have made great mistakes in your lives, and perhaps you have. But let me ask you this.... did you ever play strip poker with two fat chicks and win?
And where did I say anything about control? Why would you pay this over Aetherling, Sylvan, or Zegana in ramp deck? That would be stupid.
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Yeah, c'mon you guys, why would you be so stupid as to play this over Sylvan Primordial or Zegana? They have hexproof and situational unblockable, too! </SARCASM>
And where did I say anything about control? Why would you pay this over Aetherling, Sylvan, or Zegana in ramp deck? That would be stupid.
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Yeah, c'mon you guys, why would you be so stupid as to play this over Sylvan Primordial or Zegana? They have hexproof and situational unblockable, too! </SARCASM>
Those two actually do something to effect the game when they enter play. If you think a random 8/8 that is only relevant during combat (which is coincidentally when it can be killed) is better than that you should rethink you card evaluation skills.
I like this guy. He will see constructed play (he might have to wait till block) but the thing i don't get, is why isn't he mythic? isn't creatures like this the reason there's a mythic rarity in the first place?
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Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
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First lets be honest they have the same converted casting cost because you never play Aetherling without protection.
Second Tromokratis does pretty much exactly what Aetherling does for less mana.
The blink ability is the only thing putting Aetherling in front of this guy.
As to how his ability is worded, yes WotC has said that's not what we meant a few times but more often that not it is what they meant.
I'm not sure I buy your argument.
Self Protection:
Against mass removal, Aetherling flickers and dodges, while this just dies.
Against sorcery speed spot removal, both dodge
Against instant speed spot removal, Aethering flickers and dodges while this gets caught with its pants down mid-combat
Clock:
Both swing for 8
Aetherling is unblockable
This can be blocked, albeit with some amount of difficulty
Defense:
Aetherling can attack, flicker, block
This can't block if you attacked. It stops them from swinging if they want to block, but that's not the same.
So Aetherling is a more protected wincon, a harder to stop wincon, and a harder to race wincon. The only thing this has is a lack of further mana investment required.
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I love the clarifying text on the second ability. It's absurdly easy to understand in the first place and the clarification isn't worded any more clearly.
So Aetherling is a more protected wincon, a harder to stop wincon, and a harder to race wincon. The only thing this has is a lack of further mana investment required.
Which isn't even particularly important for control. He's definitely not on the same level as Aetherling, although maybe he'll be a new win-con post rotation.
That said, I don't think you accurately described their protection or mana cost. Against some decks, people generally won't run out Aetherling with only one blue mana up so he often costs 8 total. Plus, while not usually an issue, Aetherling generally requires 3-4 blue sources while this only requires 2. Aetherling generally costs 4UUU or 4UUUU while this always costs 5UU. I have seen plenty of WUR and esper deck games where the player couldn't actually cast Aetherling and leave up U because of his lands. Also, while it's usually better to dodge 1-2 instances of any type of removal, sometimes dodging extra sorcery speed removal spells will be better - particularly if someone's running Chained to the Rocks and/or Detention Sphere. Finally, even though he dies to instant speed removal when he attacks, you've at least gotten to untap and now have all of your mana free to protect him, so it's not that much of a weakness. He's only really vulnerable in the decks that will run him to instant speed if you have to block his first turn or sweepers. He's worse than Aetherling, but better than you described.
Another boring card. Is it me or Born of the Gods is shaping up to be a bad set so far? The most interesting card so far is an uncommon, and the gods are subpar. From all the rares we've seen so far, none looks playable in Standard except maybe Pain Seer. Hopefully they stop showing limited fodder soon enough.
Self Protection:
Against mass removal, Aetherling flickers and dodges, while this just dies.
Against sorcery speed spot removal, both dodge
Against instant speed spot removal, Aethering flickers and dodges while this gets caught with its pants down mid-combat
Clock:
Both swing for 8
Aetherling is unblockable
This can be blocked, albeit with some amount of difficulty
Defense:
Aetherling can attack, flicker, block
This can't block if you attacked. It stops them from swinging if they want to block, but that's not the same.
So Aetherling is a more protected wincon, a harder to stop wincon, and a harder to race wincon. The only thing this has is a lack of further mana investment required.
You obviously missed where I said the blink ability of Aetherling is what makes it better than Tromokratis and the only reason.
Some of you may think that you have made great mistakes in your lives, and perhaps you have. But let me ask you this.... did you ever play strip poker with two fat chicks and win?
That unlockable text seems odd.
So just to clarify if I have a tapped mana dork but a lot of other untapped dudes I can't block it because it doesn't say the " if able" line.
That's a cute design,
but I'm not sure what format this is for (maybe casual?)-
It's probably not the type of thing I would play in EDH despite it looking kinda fun.
Also, the art looks *so much* like much older MtG art.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
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The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
You obviously missed where I said the blink ability of Aetherling is what makes it better than Tromokratis and the only reason.
A) That's a pretty huge reason
and
B) It's not the only reason, since they DO have the option to block Tromo, while they don't have that option for Aetherling.
Example: You're facing down a Xenagos, the Reveler, the player has no other creatures out. He uses his +0 and passes. He can now stop your 8/8.
Against Aetherling, he doesn't have that option. AND the Aetherling can block the token if you flicker it.
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Nope. Creatures that are unable to block don't count for these kinds of abilities.
Then read the reminder... don't miss-inform people when you can't read the card properly. ALL is ALL this time cuz there is no "CARDNAME can't be blocked unless all creatures ABLE to block it defending player controls block it."
If there was the word ABLE, then you would, be right.
You obviously missed where I said the blink ability of Aetherling is what makes it better than Tromokratis and the only reason.
Being able to flicker your Aetherling, cast a Supreme Verdict and then have a powerful beater once the board is clear is also why this creature is so great.
Wh... no. No it is not. Punisher mechanics allow your opponent to choose the between effects. This ability only takes away choices the opponent would normally have.
Yup, you are right. I misread the card, have been looking at a lot of punisher mechanic discussion and am just generally tired. I still say that this is a disappointing card however. It has protection from sorcery speed targeted removal, which is totally irrelevant. It also has not quite unblockable. Stormtide Leviathan saw no competitive play and had more upside than this. I will add the caveat that this is a different Standard and it is possible the ways to cheat out a big blue thing like this (Arbiter of the Ideal, for example) may turn out better.
End of Turn so your mana is still up after their turn is over?
Being outside of Sorcery speed removal, and requiring combat investment to even attempt it opens you up for this not working and backfiring spectacularly.
It's not a Spike card, this is very much Timmy with a hint of Johnny for cruel sadistic glee. But if you're a Timmy with a Sadistic Johnny glee? You'll have fun with this.
Agreed, except i'd like to bring up that there is a fourth player type, and we've always been around, just becoming a bit more common these days. We have Timmy, Johnny, Spike, and may i announce; Rogue! The Rogue is a player with a sprinkling of each, loves combo enablers, and builds decks with spike cards to back up their timmy/johnny masterplan. A player who dislikes playing the established lists, but will use them as templates to plug in a supporting combo or timmy bomb. Will agree that aethering could be better, but doesnt mind playing the second best "aetherling", in the name of Rogue deckbuilding Science! Im a Rogue, and proud of it!
Agreed, except i'd like to bring up that there is a fourth player type, and we've always been around, just becoming a bit more common these days. We have Timmy, Johnny, Spike, and may i announce; Rogue! The Rogue is a player with a sprinkling of each, loves combo enablers, and builds decks with spike cards to back up their timmy/johnny masterplan. A player who dislikes playing the established lists, but will use them as templates to plug in a supporting combo or timmy bomb. Will agree that aethering could be better, but doesnt mind playing the second best "aetherling", in the name of Rogue deckbuilding Science! Im a Rogue, and proud of it!
Rogue isn't a personality trope, it is a deckbuilding trope. A "rogue" would still fall under the Johnny/Timmy/Spike psychological profiles.
A) That's a pretty huge reason
and
B) It's not the only reason, since they DO have the option to block Tromo, while they don't have that option for Aetherling.
It is the only reason because if it didn't have the blink ability the fact it can become unblockable wouldn't matter.
Some of you may think that you have made great mistakes in your lives, and perhaps you have. But let me ask you this.... did you ever play strip poker with two fat chicks and win?
Those two actually do something to effect the game when they enter play. If you think a random 8/8 that is only relevant during combat (which is coincidentally when it can be killed) is better than that you should rethink you card evaluation skills.
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By the time he swings, you should have plenty of options for protection (counters, etc) Zegana and Sylvan are extremely fragile during your opponent's next turn, so you're normally only going to be getting the secondary benefits of the creature card, not the creature card itself. As a creature that is meant to attack and win games, Tomokratis is better.
Thanks for the personal attack, by the way.
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Legacy
UR Dracoplosion
Modern
R Goblins
G Combo Elves
EDH
RKrenko, Mob Boss
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XKarn, Silver Golem
RZirilan of the Claw
The fact that he dies to removal isn't what makes him unplayable. The fact that he dies to removal AND doesn't affect the game in any meaningful way makes him unplayable.
If I'm paying 7 mana for a creature in constructed, I want it to do something bonkers when it comes into play or leaves play or I want it to have some kind of synergy with the rest of my deck that makes it unkillable, lets me cheat it in, etc.
Standard:
GU Prophet
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Trades
End of Turn so your mana is still up after their turn is over?
Being outside of Sorcery speed removal, and requiring combat investment to even attempt it opens you up for this not working and backfiring spectacularly.
It's not a Spike card, this is very much Timmy with a hint of Johnny for cruel sadistic glee. But if you're a Timmy with a Sadistic Johnny glee? You'll have fun with this.
Second Tromokratis does pretty much exactly what Aetherling does for less mana.
The blink ability is the only thing putting Aetherling in front of this guy.
As to how his ability is worded, yes WotC has said that's not what we meant a few times but more often that not it is what they meant.
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Karrthus, Tyrant of Dragons
Some of you may think that you have made great mistakes in your lives, and perhaps you have. But let me ask you this.... did you ever play strip poker with two fat chicks and win?
Cockatrice name: Ninja Nate
Dies to removal is always a relevant argument when you've spent 7 mana and got nothing but a body out of it.
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How is it that no one mention giving it flying in limited? Put a Nimbus Naid on it and 2 swings. Voila.
Or Heliod's Emissary. That said, it's pretty big on its own.
Of the C and U removal, currently only Divine Verdict or Lash of the Whip with chumpers stops it dead.
This looks more like a "fair" Invisible Stalker, possibly one that majority would accept and not feel too peeved about.
Lastly, terrible art.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Yeah, c'mon you guys, why would you be so stupid as to play this over Sylvan Primordial or Zegana? They have hexproof and situational unblockable, too! </SARCASM>
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Those two actually do something to effect the game when they enter play. If you think a random 8/8 that is only relevant during combat (which is coincidentally when it can be killed) is better than that you should rethink you card evaluation skills.
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Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
I'm not sure I buy your argument.
Self Protection:
Against mass removal, Aetherling flickers and dodges, while this just dies.
Against sorcery speed spot removal, both dodge
Against instant speed spot removal, Aethering flickers and dodges while this gets caught with its pants down mid-combat
Clock:
Both swing for 8
Aetherling is unblockable
This can be blocked, albeit with some amount of difficulty
Defense:
Aetherling can attack, flicker, block
This can't block if you attacked. It stops them from swinging if they want to block, but that's not the same.
So Aetherling is a more protected wincon, a harder to stop wincon, and a harder to race wincon. The only thing this has is a lack of further mana investment required.
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Which isn't even particularly important for control. He's definitely not on the same level as Aetherling, although maybe he'll be a new win-con post rotation.
That said, I don't think you accurately described their protection or mana cost. Against some decks, people generally won't run out Aetherling with only one blue mana up so he often costs 8 total. Plus, while not usually an issue, Aetherling generally requires 3-4 blue sources while this only requires 2. Aetherling generally costs 4UUU or 4UUUU while this always costs 5UU. I have seen plenty of WUR and esper deck games where the player couldn't actually cast Aetherling and leave up U because of his lands. Also, while it's usually better to dodge 1-2 instances of any type of removal, sometimes dodging extra sorcery speed removal spells will be better - particularly if someone's running Chained to the Rocks and/or Detention Sphere. Finally, even though he dies to instant speed removal when he attacks, you've at least gotten to untap and now have all of your mana free to protect him, so it's not that much of a weakness. He's only really vulnerable in the decks that will run him to instant speed if you have to block his first turn or sweepers. He's worse than Aetherling, but better than you described.
The idea is that he's deep down in the ocean, so can't be targeted. When he comes up to attack, he's briefly vulnerable to attack.
You obviously missed where I said the blink ability of Aetherling is what makes it better than Tromokratis and the only reason.
Currently playing
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Karrthus, Tyrant of Dragons
Some of you may think that you have made great mistakes in your lives, and perhaps you have. But let me ask you this.... did you ever play strip poker with two fat chicks and win?
Cockatrice name: Ninja Nate
So just to clarify if I have a tapped mana dork but a lot of other untapped dudes I can't block it because it doesn't say the " if able" line.
but I'm not sure what format this is for (maybe casual?)-
It's probably not the type of thing I would play in EDH despite it looking kinda fun.
Also, the art looks *so much* like much older MtG art.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
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Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
A) That's a pretty huge reason
and
B) It's not the only reason, since they DO have the option to block Tromo, while they don't have that option for Aetherling.
Example: You're facing down a Xenagos, the Reveler, the player has no other creatures out. He uses his +0 and passes. He can now stop your 8/8.
Against Aetherling, he doesn't have that option. AND the Aetherling can block the token if you flicker it.
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Then read the reminder... don't miss-inform people when you can't read the card properly. ALL is ALL this time cuz there is no "CARDNAME can't be blocked unless all creatures ABLE to block it defending player controls block it."
If there was the word ABLE, then you would, be right.
Being able to flicker your Aetherling, cast a Supreme Verdict and then have a powerful beater once the board is clear is also why this creature is so great.
Yup, you are right. I misread the card, have been looking at a lot of punisher mechanic discussion and am just generally tired. I still say that this is a disappointing card however. It has protection from sorcery speed targeted removal, which is totally irrelevant. It also has not quite unblockable. Stormtide Leviathan saw no competitive play and had more upside than this. I will add the caveat that this is a different Standard and it is possible the ways to cheat out a big blue thing like this (Arbiter of the Ideal, for example) may turn out better.
Agreed, except i'd like to bring up that there is a fourth player type, and we've always been around, just becoming a bit more common these days. We have Timmy, Johnny, Spike, and may i announce; Rogue! The Rogue is a player with a sprinkling of each, loves combo enablers, and builds decks with spike cards to back up their timmy/johnny masterplan. A player who dislikes playing the established lists, but will use them as templates to plug in a supporting combo or timmy bomb. Will agree that aethering could be better, but doesnt mind playing the second best "aetherling", in the name of Rogue deckbuilding Science! Im a Rogue, and proud of it!
Rogue isn't a personality trope, it is a deckbuilding trope. A "rogue" would still fall under the Johnny/Timmy/Spike psychological profiles.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
It is the only reason because if it didn't have the blink ability the fact it can become unblockable wouldn't matter.
Currently playing
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Night Shift
Karrthus, Tyrant of Dragons
Some of you may think that you have made great mistakes in your lives, and perhaps you have. But let me ask you this.... did you ever play strip poker with two fat chicks and win?
Cockatrice name: Ninja Nate
By the time he swings, you should have plenty of options for protection (counters, etc) Zegana and Sylvan are extremely fragile during your opponent's next turn, so you're normally only going to be getting the secondary benefits of the creature card, not the creature card itself. As a creature that is meant to attack and win games, Tomokratis is better.
Thanks for the personal attack, by the way.