I think this card should have been costed at 3R...but that 1RRR casting cost really hinders this card
Remember they push mono-color in this block so the cost makes sense so fringe 3 color decks like Jund dont have access to it(if they even want something like this is another topic)
Yea, this is basically red Hero's Downfall. What a strange card. I'm guessing planeswalkers and Obzedat in the FFL were causing mono-red devotion problems, and they wanted to give them an out. That's the only practical application I see for this one.
Not terrible. It will almost always kill a planeswalker, since 6+ loyalty is pretty rare, it kills a lot of creatures but not very efficiently. Scry 2 is great, and the interaction with Reckoner is nice. Triple red is harsh. I'll give it a 7 out of ten, where Hero's Downfall is an 8 and Warleader's Helix is a 6.5. Killing Obzedaddy and Blood Baron, plus every standard 'walker (except Vraska) after a + is nice. DEsecration Demon and Master of Waves are about the only things it can't kill.
Edit: Scry only on your turn is a little harsh considering the mana cost.
This card is hideously bad. The intention is correct, but execution of it is terrible. That's why I always say to be wary of who's the lead developer of the set.
I don't know about you guys, but it seems that with the patterns (of hassle-free spot removal at rare) we see going forward, Lightning Bolt will be rare in the future.
RRR is such a huge turn-off. It means this card is only for RDW and probably nothing else. Not even sure if RDW wants it though.
Damage to a Planeswalker? Does that even work under the current rules? Is there going to be a rules change with the release of Born of the Gods? I'd be interested if this hit creatures or players (for that mana cost) but without the option to hit players as well, its utility is really hampered. Could still see a fair about of standard play but outside that with no "or players" clause...........meh
Damaging a Planeswalker is perfectly fine - Magmaquake already does it. Targetting a Planeswalker is perfectly fine - Hero's Downfall already does it. What's the problem?
Violent Eruption - Madness instead of "sometimes scry", can hit players, is only uncommon, damage can be divided up any way you choose. Beacon of Destruction - Doesn't require a mono-red deck, shuffles back in instead of "sometimes scry", can hit players on the dome.
I think the card could have cost RRR or 2RR very safely, and it should definitely not have been rare.
I like this card. It is a powerful removal spell that isn't super-busted because it can't just be used to burn out an opponent, yet retains the ability to be useful against heavy-control decks which use planeswalkers. It also reminds me of the Careful Consideration cycle from Time Spiral.
Ditto this. I like the modality here and I'm really interested in seeing just how many other cards in the set have it.
Obviously the spell is rare so that it doesn't screw up limited and because this kind of card selection is very good in mono-red. If it does see play, it probably won't be more than a two-of, but this combined with Magma Jet, might be just about enough scry to help a mono R deck keep it's foot on the gas into the mid game.
It's rare because it targets planeswalkers. They avoid printing planeswalker-hosers at anything lower than rare, since planeswalkers themselves are mythic rares.
I think that there are decks that will use this card, but none of them will enjoy that they have to use this card. It deals with Planeswalkers and creatures very well for a red damage spell, but it is incredibly underwhelming. I think that the ability to divide the damage would have been fair, and great.
I am more excited about the possibility that they will add he runner text to more cards. I enjoyed the Careful Consideration cycle from Time Spiral, and it would be great if they do a similar thing, adding Scry this time.
Edit: Agreed with the point Yeef made. Adding planeswalker to the card automatically makes it a rare. However, I don't think that they did enough to make it deserving of that status.
I suppose Red needed a reliable way to deal with high-loyalty planeswalkers without a two-for-one. Still, I see no reason why the Scry needed to be conditional. I really hope this isn't part of a cycle...
I actually like this, but I am a big old softy when it comes to red. Jace drops, +1s, this puts him down nice and easy and digs a little so you don't have to feel like you wasted your whole turn negating your opponent's previous turn. Fanatic of Mogis will sometimes do the same thing and leave a body behind and be easier to cast, but that's reliant on having a pretty good stable board state already, which is far from a guarantee.
Now, the issue is how often will we see Jace hit the table without mana open for a counterspell? I wish this had a "can't be countered," or even "can't be countered on your turn" clause. We'll see what kind of decks show up in BNG standard. Regardless, I like big burns and I cannot lie, so I'm not mopey about this card, even though I acknowledge it likely won't be acquiring chase status anytime soon.
It's rare because it targets planeswalkers. They avoid printing planeswalker-hosers at anything lower than rare, since planeswalkers themselves are mythic rares.
Nah, they print all sorts of commons and uncommons that destroy planeswalkers outright. Green has quite a few of them for example. Red's got a LOT of common/uncommon cards that hose planeswalkers via direct damage (just like this card). Your "rule" isn't a rule.
"deals 5 damage to target planeswalker" is strictly inferior to "deals 5 damage to target player", right?
Nah, they print all sorts of commons and uncommons that destroy planeswalkers outright. Green has quite a few of them for example. Your "rule" isn't a rule.
This is not true. MaRo has explicitly stated that any card that has the word "planeswalker" in its text will be a rare or higher. So it isn't his rule that he is saying, it's MaRo's rule.
Now they can use other mechanisms to get around saying Planeswalker and those can be at common or uncommon.
Edit: Now I agree that "5 damage to a player" is better than "5 damage to a planeswalker", but the current standard is that if it says Planeswalker it must be rare. This same issue was brought up during the discussion of Hero's Downfall, and MaRo said something to that extent on his Tumblr.
scry makes this a good top draw. its rare due to limited ( you know heroic and monstrousity) . a good card for standard making a good sideboard and even main board card in mono r agro ( being able to kill hard to kill creatures and planeswalkers is good)
I actually like this, but I am a big old softy when it comes to red. Jace drops, +1s, this puts him down nice and easy and digs a little so you don't have to feel like you wasted your whole turn negating your opponent's previous turn. Fanatic of Mogis will sometimes do the same thing and leave a body behind and be easier to cast, but that's reliant on having a pretty good stable board state already, which is far from a guarantee.
Now, the issue is how often will we see Jace hit the table without mana open for a counterspell? I wish this had a "can't be countered," or even "can't be countered on your turn" clause. We'll see what kind of decks show up in BNG standard. Regardless, I like big burns and I cannot lie, so I'm not mopey about this card, even though I acknowledge it likely won't be acquiring chase status anytime soon.
"Can't be countered on your turn" would be a really cool mechanic...
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This is not true. MaRo has explicitly stated that any card that has the word "planeswalker" in its text will be a rare or higher. So it isn't his rule that he is saying, it's MaRo's rule.
Now they can use other mechanisms to get around saying Planeswalker and those can be at common or uncommon.
So what you're saying is that if this card said "5 damage to target player" it could have been common, but because it's restricted to "planeswalker" they had to make it rare?
We're getting to the point where there's a high saturation of walker removal, probably the highest we've seen thus far. Coupled with the fact that walkers have been watered down.
I probably guess this was meant for Elspeth, and probably the "Ajani" in Journey into Nix. He must really be overpowered such that they made this on hindsight lol.
It does seem like anytime a card references planeswalkers, it's a rare. Though that's some pretty silly logic if it's intentional since all burn spells that target a player, can target a planeswalker. Not to mention cards that "destroy target permanent".
Would wager that the "scry if you played it as a sorcery" thing is a cycle.
I'd wager you're onto something.
This spell, at 4 mana, unable to target a player, definitely won't see play in any constructed monored decks I build. With 4 mana I want to destroy you and ignore the things you control. And . . .it won't see play in anything beyond a monored build in any format.
In limited, seems good, but needs a heavy red hand. But if there are other cards in the set like this being passed around for late rounds though, I'd say red might be fun in some drafting circles.
Remember they push mono-color in this block so the cost makes sense so fringe 3 color decks like Jund dont have access to it(if they even want something like this is another topic)
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A shame its not costed at 2RR
Edit: Scry only on your turn is a little harsh considering the mana cost.
I don't know about you guys, but it seems that with the patterns (of hassle-free spot removal at rare) we see going forward, Lightning Bolt will be rare in the future.
RRR is such a huge turn-off. It means this card is only for RDW and probably nothing else. Not even sure if RDW wants it though.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Damaging a Planeswalker is perfectly fine - Magmaquake already does it. Targetting a Planeswalker is perfectly fine - Hero's Downfall already does it. What's the problem?
A little more fuel for the "fire"...
Violent Eruption - Madness instead of "sometimes scry", can hit players, is only uncommon, damage can be divided up any way you choose.
Beacon of Destruction - Doesn't require a mono-red deck, shuffles back in instead of "sometimes scry", can hit players on the dome.
I think the card could have cost RRR or 2RR very safely, and it should definitely not have been rare.
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Ditto this. I like the modality here and I'm really interested in seeing just how many other cards in the set have it.
Obviously the spell is rare so that it doesn't screw up limited and because this kind of card selection is very good in mono-red. If it does see play, it probably won't be more than a two-of, but this combined with Magma Jet, might be just about enough scry to help a mono R deck keep it's foot on the gas into the mid game.
I am more excited about the possibility that they will add he runner text to more cards. I enjoyed the Careful Consideration cycle from Time Spiral, and it would be great if they do a similar thing, adding Scry this time.
Edit: Agreed with the point Yeef made. Adding planeswalker to the card automatically makes it a rare. However, I don't think that they did enough to make it deserving of that status.
Now, the issue is how often will we see Jace hit the table without mana open for a counterspell? I wish this had a "can't be countered," or even "can't be countered on your turn" clause. We'll see what kind of decks show up in BNG standard. Regardless, I like big burns and I cannot lie, so I'm not mopey about this card, even though I acknowledge it likely won't be acquiring chase status anytime soon.
Nah, they print all sorts of commons and uncommons that destroy planeswalkers outright. Green has quite a few of them for example. Red's got a LOT of common/uncommon cards that hose planeswalkers via direct damage (just like this card). Your "rule" isn't a rule.
"deals 5 damage to target planeswalker" is strictly inferior to "deals 5 damage to target player", right?
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This is not true. MaRo has explicitly stated that any card that has the word "planeswalker" in its text will be a rare or higher. So it isn't his rule that he is saying, it's MaRo's rule.
Now they can use other mechanisms to get around saying Planeswalker and those can be at common or uncommon.
Edit: Now I agree that "5 damage to a player" is better than "5 damage to a planeswalker", but the current standard is that if it says Planeswalker it must be rare. This same issue was brought up during the discussion of Hero's Downfall, and MaRo said something to that extent on his Tumblr.
"Can't be countered on your turn" would be a really cool mechanic...
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So what you're saying is that if this card said "5 damage to target player" it could have been common, but because it's restricted to "planeswalker" they had to make it rare?
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I probably guess this was meant for Elspeth, and probably the "Ajani" in Journey into Nix. He must really be overpowered such that they made this on hindsight lol.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
The art sure looks flame-y, though.
I'd wager you're onto something.
This spell, at 4 mana, unable to target a player, definitely won't see play in any constructed monored decks I build. With 4 mana I want to destroy you and ignore the things you control. And . . .it won't see play in anything beyond a monored build in any format.
In limited, seems good, but needs a heavy red hand. But if there are other cards in the set like this being passed around for late rounds though, I'd say red might be fun in some drafting circles.