Water very very useful, in a huge abundance, and sold in a bottle to people. for large profits for something that's free
Just thought I'd point out that although water is indeed everywhere around (and within!) us, clean drinking water isn't quite as plentiful, depending on where you live. I certainly can't find any free water I could drink without getting sick. Even drinking tap water costs something.
I too am not a fan of the fact that it's colored. Part of what you're paying for is the color and part is the collectors case et. It's still not $100 worth.
Why does it feature the queen when it's in dollars?
I would have preferred it if it was in sterling.
Pretty sure they are NZ dollars.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
think of it like this, you can buy a lump of silver with Mind Sculptor on it, and if the OP is right about $100, it will cost less to buy a solid silver Mind Sculptor than a cardboard one
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
As an owner of a chain of gold/silver/diamond buying stores in Cali I would say skip this. Its actual worth is about 20$ and if you wanted to sell it at a shop of mine or any other store that buys precious metals you would be offered about 10$.
Shame on you and your business for paying people HALF the value of their items! An ounce of silver, no matter what form it's in, is currently worth $20 anywhere in the world. Not $10. Not even $19. That's like paying somebody ten bucks for a twenty dollar bill. I don't know ANY scam artist who pays only 50% of PM value - that's disgusting. I have to believe that you're lying, because no real business is that corrupt. Even those crappy "cash for gold" places pay like 70% and they're known to be a scam. Anyone with an ounce of silver that doesn't want it can get 95% to 100% of spot price just by walking into any currency exchange, bullion dealer, or coin store in the world.
Not to be a total butt, but you missed something very key against your arguement.
Water very very useful, in a huge abundance, and sold in a bottle to people. for large profits for something that's free
So what's your views on this angle as I'm intrigued with what you've said so far.
Good question! I love it.
You're right that water isn't scarce. We're MADE of water, as is all life. And it's all over the place, you're right.
But small plastic drinking bottles filled with filtered drinking water aren't the same thing. That's why they have a little bit of value to them. If I handed you a puddle of water of the road, I wouldn't expect you to give me anything in return. If I hand you a 500mL bottle of glacier water, sure, I'd expect $1 or something.
It's not my logic. You're coming across much like someone who has never learned anything about physics, being confused that F=ma, and claiming "there are flaws in your logic". Not sure what to tell you, but it's clear you haven't done the first bit of research on this. No offense meant, but you're talking like you know what you mean, while those of us who really do aren't fooled.
You're quite right that the pricetag on silver and gold fluctuate a lot, far more than just based on their usefulness changing. That's because for the past several decades, the price of gold and silver bullion (physical, very limited metal) has been tied to the price of gold and silver ETFs, which are unlimited electronic funds traded on the stock exchanges. Traders treat these ETFs like stocks and the price can double in a few months, then crash. The market is heavily manipulated. Here's a 10 year gold chart. Meanwhile, people who buy or sell the actual metal have to do so at that price. It makes no sense, but that's how the banks like it. They can manipulate the price, especially in the downward direction, to keep the metal cheap. They do that because precious metal is the "canary in the coal mine" for the economy. When people see gold going up, that's the same as seeing the dollar going down. Banks/govt don't want that, they want people to hold dollars. Most of the public doesn't know this. It's no longer taught in schools. Currency is now called money, even though it isn't. We are taught to chase dollars, which are really just the shadow of a receipt of real money. You've heard about QE, right? Printing 85 billion USD every month, from thin air. That's causing inflation, which can also be called a hidden tax, because it decreases the purchasing power of every dollar you've already got. A lot of people like storing their value in something sound, something you can put in a safe and know it can't be printed off a printing press by out of control governments. Lots of people enjoy the privacy gold and silver provide. And the fact that they've always held value since we first starting using them, without a single day off, in every city in every country in the world, is attractive to some people. You could walk into any town on the planet, at any point in recorded history, with a gold coin in your hand and find a warm bed, nice dinner, and pretty much whatever else you want. Including today. People like that. No paper currency ever invented makes that claim. The USD in current form has existed for 40 years, and that's the longest any fiat currency has ever lasted. Will it keep going? For the moment, it seems so. Though I read a report from the IMF yesterday that says they expect a collapse of the Western economies, perhaps even in 2014. The USD probably won't be the world's reserve currency for much longer. China's Yuan is a candidate for the next reserve currency, as is a "basket of currencies" which would include the USD but also several others. Nobody's sure what will happen yet, of course.
But yea, the pricetag on gold and silver bullion fluctuates more than the change in their usefulness and scarcity would normally dictate, because they're tied to the pricetag of electronically traded funds. Before that was the case, gold's price was perfectly stable against the dollar for decades - didn't move a single cent. Not coincidentally, inflation was nonexistent at the time as well. It all started changing in 1913 with the birth of the Federal Reserve Bank, a private bank that isn't federal, and which has no reserves. I'll leave it there for now.
It says that because you can spend it for $2 (NZ). You wouldn't want to do that of course, but you could. Having a face value is what turns it into a coin from simply being a piece of silver with nice designs.
Why does it feature the queen when it's in dollars?
I would have preferred it if it was in sterling.
Sterling silver is 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper. It's what we've made silverware and jewelry from for centuries. Most coins through history were made of similar compositions, but usually 80% or 90% silver, not 92.5%. American coinage was 90% silver until the mid 1960s, but because of inflation the face value on the coins became worth less than the value of the silver needed to make them. Now US coinage (and all coinage in the world actually) is pretty much worthless (other than the face value of course). But yeah, they coulda put some copper into the mix and done the coin in sterling. I personally like it as is though, 99.9% pure. That's the standard for most bullion, also called 999.
It features the queen because New Zealand is part of the commonwealth of nations (along with Canada, Australia, etc). Personally I don't care for her, or any royalty, but they put her on our coins so I haven't got much of a choice!
My first thought: "What the hell is this I don't even..."
I'm glad I read more posts into the thread, though. Your post was pretty interesting, rancored_elf!
Sweet! Glad I got ya thinkin
It's a bit of a dry topic, I'll admit, but one that's quite important. It affects us all, every day of our lives, and most of us don't know the first thing about it. By design.
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws."
- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of modern banking, head of the richest family in human history
I've seen these awhile ago, but the MTG one is new to me. Given the value of 1oz "bars" I see this in the area of $100-$150, which I find funny, considering that was the price of the card not to long ago.
I've seen these awhile ago, but the MTG one is new to me. Given the value of 1oz "bars" I see this in the area of $100-$150, which I find funny, considering that was the price of the card not to long ago.
I really hope that this is not $100.00. That would be an incredible mark up on the silver and the colorized Mind Sculptor does not justify the price.
Why would we want to buy this when I can literally walk into any numismatic coin shop and buy 5 oz for the same price? Collectible coins are fun, and I have bought a few from places like the Perth Mint, but that mark up would be absurd.
712.5b The controller of another player can't make choices or decisions for that player that aren't called for by the rules or by any objects. The controller also can't make any choices or decisions for the player that would be called for by the tournament rules.
Example: The player who's being controlled still chooses whether he or she leaves to visit the restroom, trades a card to someone else, agrees to an intentional draw, or calls a judge about an error or infraction.
After hearing about this Jace coin, I made the following graph. Unfortunately, I had to chop it up because it doesn't fit on my site. But I can share the graph in all it's glory here.
LOL! That's totally not to scale, I call foul
But it's funny anyway.
As for the actual value of this coin (rectangular as it may be), I'd say $39.95 would be a reasonable-ish pricetag. The silver's worth $20 itself (and that'll likely be going up over the next couple years IMO), and it does cost something to mint a product, and the packaging is pretty nice I guess. Still, I wouldn't buy it for over $30 myself. I can go into any coin dealer or bullion shop locally and pick up similar (not Jace of course) ounces of silver for $25 or less. I love it for being a crossover between silver and Magic, two incredible things, but come on. If it's $100, they better only be minting 2000 of them or something.
That said, I like that it will increase awareness of precious metals among a demographic that sorely needs to learn more about it IMO.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I notice that the price hasn't been announced or decided upon yet, but the OP claims that it will be $100. How sure of that are you, OP? It seems inappropriate to me, and if Wizards has any sense, they'll make it more reasonable. They'll be able to produce these for about $23-$25 each in my estimation (I've looked into minting silver coins/rounds and know people who do it). If I were them I'd keep the price (even with the case and certificate of authenticity which ironically is just a piece of paper with ink on it) to $40 or $50. The only way they can justify a $100 price tag is if they produce VERY few of them. Hopefully the quoted $100 is just a rumour and won't be the price.
Amusingly 1 ounce of silver is worth about $20. 1 ounce of TMS is about $1650. I'll stick to the cardboard.
I know that was supposed to be a joke, but... why would you prefer paying 1650 rather than 20? Got too much cash?
The logic in saying you want to pay $1650 for an ounce of paper instead of $20 for an equal weight in bullion just isn't there.
First, by your definition Mtg cards (some of them) have intrinsic value. They are useful — I can use them to win a tournament. And they are scarce, especially the ones of the Reserved list. This is not simply a case of fiat value — WoTC has made no declaration that Tarmogoyf is to be worth more than Steamflogger Boss. 'goyf is worth more because of what you can do with it.
Second, while you are right that gold and silver are useful, that is not where they get most of their value. They had value long before people discovered their practical uses. And consider the big increase in the price of gold over the past decade. It's not because suddenly gold has become more useful. Rather, most of their value simply comes from people considering them to have value.
Being a sociologist with a strong interest in economic sociology and the sociology of Money, I think that your point is good but that you are missing some points.
Money is tied to power. Most peole think that Money (including metal coins) were invented so that people could trade. However a just as strong component in the promotion of basic economic systems with coins is the 'need' to collect taxes. Coins and other forms of Money makes it much more easy to collect tax (as opposed to cattle or grain). With these basic economic systems comes also the monomply to mint coins. When you colllect tax in Money you force people to go to the market and urbanise. With Money you have an easy way to buy the most important to stay in power; an army and tax collectors.
All in all - Money has a long and interesting history. And the basic demand / supply aspect is only a small part of it.
And in relation to discussion of intristic value. There is nothing in the World that has intristic value if you meaing that is prior to human invovement. But there are some Things that people think have intristic value (not only silver and gold but also humans) and that make people and the systems we have build into our cultre act as if it was there. At one level the instristic value is there because people perceive it and in another level it is not by the same reasoning = because it is there only when perceived to be. It all depends on the perspective (like when light is bith waves and particles).
Thanks for the link. One major difference here is year of mintage. In the past 2 years, that shark coin has gone "out of print" (or out of mint, heh). That tends to perk collector's interest in collectible coins. 2 years ago they might have been asking $50 for it, but as demand has increased, they may have upped it to the current $150 to avoid selling out the last of their inventory too quickly.
According to the website, 5000 of of these Magic coins will be minted (which is the same amount as the shark coin).
That's a very, very tiny mintage. Where did you get that 5000 figure, I can't find it. If that's the case, I think this Jace coin is actually going to be worth quite a bit more than $100. At that low mintage, I may consider picking up a few on speculation. Some coins with that low a mintage have appreciated upwards of $800 within a couple years, in recent memory.
This coin also had 5000 mintage (which is considered extremely low in the numismatic [coin collecting] world) and is also from Down Under like the Jace coin.
That would make this story go from "very interesting" to "extremely interesting" to me.
Jace, the Mintsculptor. The creeper in every aspect of our lives. First the Beleren font (new card frames). Now this. We might deal in Beleren currency in future.
these say to me their stance is who cares what we make, mtg is a license to print money, put it on anything and the neckbeards will buy it. its probably true. the newspaper stand apparently ran out of plastic bags and got a bunch of magic the gathering bags from a closet somewhere, and had people buying them. a plastic bag. with the magic logo. magic nerds paid money for it. A PLASTIC BAG.
i hate that they used resources to design and produce these things when there are so many other issues they should be spending time with.
I'm glad I read more posts into the thread, though. Your post was pretty interesting, rancored_elf!
Just thought I'd point out that although water is indeed everywhere around (and within!) us, clean drinking water isn't quite as plentiful, depending on where you live. I certainly can't find any free water I could drink without getting sick. Even drinking tap water costs something.
I would have preferred it if it was in sterling.
Silver is actually an industrial metal, so it does have a use and people would buy it for that.
Pretty sure they are NZ dollars.
Shame on you and your business for paying people HALF the value of their items! An ounce of silver, no matter what form it's in, is currently worth $20 anywhere in the world. Not $10. Not even $19. That's like paying somebody ten bucks for a twenty dollar bill. I don't know ANY scam artist who pays only 50% of PM value - that's disgusting. I have to believe that you're lying, because no real business is that corrupt. Even those crappy "cash for gold" places pay like 70% and they're known to be a scam. Anyone with an ounce of silver that doesn't want it can get 95% to 100% of spot price just by walking into any currency exchange, bullion dealer, or coin store in the world.
Good question! I love it.
You're right that water isn't scarce. We're MADE of water, as is all life. And it's all over the place, you're right.
But small plastic drinking bottles filled with filtered drinking water aren't the same thing. That's why they have a little bit of value to them. If I handed you a puddle of water of the road, I wouldn't expect you to give me anything in return. If I hand you a 500mL bottle of glacier water, sure, I'd expect $1 or something.
It's not my logic. You're coming across much like someone who has never learned anything about physics, being confused that F=ma, and claiming "there are flaws in your logic". Not sure what to tell you, but it's clear you haven't done the first bit of research on this. No offense meant, but you're talking like you know what you mean, while those of us who really do aren't fooled.
You're quite right that the pricetag on silver and gold fluctuate a lot, far more than just based on their usefulness changing. That's because for the past several decades, the price of gold and silver bullion (physical, very limited metal) has been tied to the price of gold and silver ETFs, which are unlimited electronic funds traded on the stock exchanges. Traders treat these ETFs like stocks and the price can double in a few months, then crash. The market is heavily manipulated. Here's a 10 year gold chart. Meanwhile, people who buy or sell the actual metal have to do so at that price. It makes no sense, but that's how the banks like it. They can manipulate the price, especially in the downward direction, to keep the metal cheap. They do that because precious metal is the "canary in the coal mine" for the economy. When people see gold going up, that's the same as seeing the dollar going down. Banks/govt don't want that, they want people to hold dollars. Most of the public doesn't know this. It's no longer taught in schools. Currency is now called money, even though it isn't. We are taught to chase dollars, which are really just the shadow of a receipt of real money. You've heard about QE, right? Printing 85 billion USD every month, from thin air. That's causing inflation, which can also be called a hidden tax, because it decreases the purchasing power of every dollar you've already got. A lot of people like storing their value in something sound, something you can put in a safe and know it can't be printed off a printing press by out of control governments. Lots of people enjoy the privacy gold and silver provide. And the fact that they've always held value since we first starting using them, without a single day off, in every city in every country in the world, is attractive to some people. You could walk into any town on the planet, at any point in recorded history, with a gold coin in your hand and find a warm bed, nice dinner, and pretty much whatever else you want. Including today. People like that. No paper currency ever invented makes that claim. The USD in current form has existed for 40 years, and that's the longest any fiat currency has ever lasted. Will it keep going? For the moment, it seems so. Though I read a report from the IMF yesterday that says they expect a collapse of the Western economies, perhaps even in 2014. The USD probably won't be the world's reserve currency for much longer. China's Yuan is a candidate for the next reserve currency, as is a "basket of currencies" which would include the USD but also several others. Nobody's sure what will happen yet, of course.
But yea, the pricetag on gold and silver bullion fluctuates more than the change in their usefulness and scarcity would normally dictate, because they're tied to the pricetag of electronically traded funds. Before that was the case, gold's price was perfectly stable against the dollar for decades - didn't move a single cent. Not coincidentally, inflation was nonexistent at the time as well. It all started changing in 1913 with the birth of the Federal Reserve Bank, a private bank that isn't federal, and which has no reserves. I'll leave it there for now.
It says that because you can spend it for $2 (NZ). You wouldn't want to do that of course, but you could. Having a face value is what turns it into a coin from simply being a piece of silver with nice designs.
Sterling silver is 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper. It's what we've made silverware and jewelry from for centuries. Most coins through history were made of similar compositions, but usually 80% or 90% silver, not 92.5%. American coinage was 90% silver until the mid 1960s, but because of inflation the face value on the coins became worth less than the value of the silver needed to make them. Now US coinage (and all coinage in the world actually) is pretty much worthless (other than the face value of course). But yeah, they coulda put some copper into the mix and done the coin in sterling. I personally like it as is though, 99.9% pure. That's the standard for most bullion, also called 999.
It features the queen because New Zealand is part of the commonwealth of nations (along with Canada, Australia, etc). Personally I don't care for her, or any royalty, but they put her on our coins so I haven't got much of a choice!
Sweet! Glad I got ya thinkin
It's a bit of a dry topic, I'll admit, but one that's quite important. It affects us all, every day of our lives, and most of us don't know the first thing about it. By design.
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws."
- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of modern banking, head of the richest family in human history
.
http://www.nzmint.com/coins/shop-online
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
I really hope that this is not $100.00. That would be an incredible mark up on the silver and the colorized Mind Sculptor does not justify the price.
Why would we want to buy this when I can literally walk into any numismatic coin shop and buy 5 oz for the same price? Collectible coins are fun, and I have bought a few from places like the Perth Mint, but that mark up would be absurd.
Modern ~ GR Tron
Example: The player who's being controlled still chooses whether he or she leaves to visit the restroom, trades a card to someone else, agrees to an intentional draw, or calls a judge about an error or infraction.
How about this?
A comic about the world's most addictive game, Magic: The Gathering.
But it's funny anyway.
As for the actual value of this coin (rectangular as it may be), I'd say $39.95 would be a reasonable-ish pricetag. The silver's worth $20 itself (and that'll likely be going up over the next couple years IMO), and it does cost something to mint a product, and the packaging is pretty nice I guess. Still, I wouldn't buy it for over $30 myself. I can go into any coin dealer or bullion shop locally and pick up similar (not Jace of course) ounces of silver for $25 or less. I love it for being a crossover between silver and Magic, two incredible things, but come on. If it's $100, they better only be minting 2000 of them or something.
That said, I like that it will increase awareness of precious metals among a demographic that sorely needs to learn more about it IMO.
.
if not, then its less use to me than a darksteel relic
RU: Rusty_Brain
GB: Worm Paint
WUR: Zedruu EHD
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
I know that was supposed to be a joke, but... why would you prefer paying 1650 rather than 20? Got too much cash?
The logic in saying you want to pay $1650 for an ounce of paper instead of $20 for an equal weight in bullion just isn't there.
.
Being a sociologist with a strong interest in economic sociology and the sociology of Money, I think that your point is good but that you are missing some points.
Money is tied to power. Most peole think that Money (including metal coins) were invented so that people could trade. However a just as strong component in the promotion of basic economic systems with coins is the 'need' to collect taxes. Coins and other forms of Money makes it much more easy to collect tax (as opposed to cattle or grain). With these basic economic systems comes also the monomply to mint coins. When you colllect tax in Money you force people to go to the market and urbanise. With Money you have an easy way to buy the most important to stay in power; an army and tax collectors.
All in all - Money has a long and interesting history. And the basic demand / supply aspect is only a small part of it.
And in relation to discussion of intristic value. There is nothing in the World that has intristic value if you meaing that is prior to human invovement. But there are some Things that people think have intristic value (not only silver and gold but also humans) and that make people and the systems we have build into our cultre act as if it was there. At one level the instristic value is there because people perceive it and in another level it is not by the same reasoning = because it is there only when perceived to be. It all depends on the perspective (like when light is bith waves and particles).
/Cheers
Thanks for the link. One major difference here is year of mintage. In the past 2 years, that shark coin has gone "out of print" (or out of mint, heh). That tends to perk collector's interest in collectible coins. 2 years ago they might have been asking $50 for it, but as demand has increased, they may have upped it to the current $150 to avoid selling out the last of their inventory too quickly.
That's a very, very tiny mintage. Where did you get that 5000 figure, I can't find it. If that's the case, I think this Jace coin is actually going to be worth quite a bit more than $100. At that low mintage, I may consider picking up a few on speculation. Some coins with that low a mintage have appreciated upwards of $800 within a couple years, in recent memory.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-RED-BACK-SPIDER-Tuvalu-Perth-Mint-999-Silver-Coin-/181287290327
This coin also had 5000 mintage (which is considered extremely low in the numismatic [coin collecting] world) and is also from Down Under like the Jace coin.
That would make this story go from "very interesting" to "extremely interesting" to me.
.
and greed. Mostly, greed.
Jace, the Mintsculptor. The creeper in every aspect of our lives. First the Beleren font (new card frames). Now this. We might deal in Beleren currency in future.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
You don't consider a two dollar coin with Berelen on it to be "Berelen currency"?
.
i hate that they used resources to design and produce these things when there are so many other issues they should be spending time with.
Who would buy this crap?
Yay, overpriced coins you can't even flip.
Someone at Hasbro must have a kid looking to make a buck or something.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
There are plenty of people who collect coins and WotC thinks some of them play MtG
Why am I not surprised that so many users on this forum this it's stupid just because they themselves have no interest in it
Oh noes! There are some individuals on this planet who who enjoy collection coins! They must be idiots!