Heh I don't need anything Silver for Jace, when we had our son, we named him Jayce. Ok technically not after Jace, but it's funny when he runs around in his Jace T-shirt. Should I get him a Silver piece with Jace on it? Jace if I know. Jace...
Very interesting development. I've got a lot to say about it, and I've only just glanced at the announcement.
First off, silver is real money. Gold is real money. Dollars are NOT money - they're currency. Money is something that has all the properties of currency plus one more: it is a store of intrinsic (contained within) value. Silver and gold have been money since the beginning of recorded time. Dollars (and other fiat - or "by decree" - currencies) are just receipts printed on paper (or computer screens) for the real thing, which is precious metal. Most people don't know that, and for good reason. If we realized that, the entire economy would collapse overnight. Faith in the dollar is the only thing keeping it from having value. It isn't backed by anything, like it was until 1971 when Nixon took the world off the gold standard. If you're skeptical about what I'm saying, please, run a few searches.
Next, I want to say that I've been aware of a LARGE crossover between Magic and precious metals for years now. I myself am quite the precious metals advocate, researcher, and more. I'm not quite ready to reveal to what extent, but I do intend to at some point. I think people who know me will be quite interested/shocked when that happens.
It somehow never occurred to me that coins could be rectangular. It's ridiculous, but I find the idea a little unnerving - like finding a cubic apple or hexagonal bird.
Heheh. Well, coins have been almost any shape you can think of, including rectangular. What makes something a coin is that it's a small physical object and has a face value (in this case, 2 New Zealand dollars) stamped on it. Some coins are just currency (some have been made out of plastic, wood, steel, or other materials with little/no intrinsic value) but many (especially pre 2000) were made from metals with value, like copper, nickel, silver, and gold. Those are coins that are not just currency, but also money.
This seems like some attempt to cash in on the bitcoin craziness from last year.
Bitcoin's craze is going to be THIS year.
But no, I don't think this has anything to do with bitcoin. They're milking the fact that many Magic players are also silver stackers. Bitcoin is a currency with no physical form. This is money with a physical form.
Also this will be ridiculously expensive. Their coins are over 100$ each, this is bigger then a coin.
Yes, definitely overpriced. Silver's currently at $20 per troy ounce, and this is a troy ounce, so there's $20 worth of silver in there. Most coins like it have a small "premium" (cost above the spot price of the metal contained), which covers the cost of minting it. 1oz .999 Silver Eagle coins (the US bullion coin) tend to have a premium of about $2. You can get them for $22.50 or so. Canadian Maples are slightly higher quality and have a premium of $3 or $4. Very few 1oz silver coins sell for much more than $5 or maybe $10 over spot price, unless they're incredibly low mintage (like 1000), or very rare.
But then, there are collectibles. With a limited print run, and some rabid fanboys out there, a mint can charge whatever the market will bear, regardless of the cost of the metal. So even if these are overpriced at $100, there's a chance that they'll be worth even more once the mint stops minting them, assuming there's still demand. It might be an investment to look into. Primary factor though will be how many they're making. If they mint more than demanded, they could end up in the "bulk silver coin" bin at your local coin shop or bullion dealer, along with all kinds of other coins and rounds that were minted in large quantity. Generally, they sell for less than $1 over the spot price of the metal contained. You can get 1oz silver rounds (or rectangles lol) just like this one (but obviously not with Jace on them) for $21 currently.
Now, regarding the colorization. Many stackers including myself won't touch colorized metal. Hides the beauty of the metal, and besides, it just looks campy and cheezy. That factor combined with the price tag means I won't get any, but if they were cheaper (or not colorized) I'd be interested.
As is, I'm still VERY interested due to the fact that this is silver bullion and Magic, meeting at last.
if the $100 pricetag is true, I find it extremely humorous that a Jace on cardboard is worth more than one on silver.
LOL! Yup. Paper rectangles with certain ink patterns on them can be worth $100 and up..... make it out of an ounce of real money and they're the same price?!
It has always fascinated me how Magic cards are essentially just currency. Created the same way - my putting ink on peices of paper. Magic cards are fiat, they're only worth something because supply and demand says so. If a Chinese company starts printing Magic cards that look realistic, every Magic card out there is suddenly worth 5 cents. If Wizards cares about the secondary market (and they say they don't), they'd better find a way to stop that.
Perhaps every Magic card will be printed on a thin sheet of silver from now on? Mythics out of gold? Perhaps $1 worth of silver for uncommons and rares, and $5 worth of gold for mythics.... heheeh kidding of course. But interesting thought experiment.
First off, silver is real money. Gold is real money. Dollars are NOT money - they're currency. Money is something that has all the properties of currency plus one more: it is a store of intrinsic (contained within) value. Silver and gold have been money since the beginning of recorded time. Dollars (and other fiat - or "by decree" - currencies) are just receipts printed on paper (or computer screens) for the real thing, which is precious metal. Most people don't know that, and for good reason. If we realized that, the entire economy would collapse overnight. Faith in the dollar is the only thing keeping it from having value. It isn't backed by anything, like it was until 1971 when Nixon took the world off the gold standard. If you're skeptical about what I'm saying, please, run a few searches.
Precious metals have no more intrinsic value than scraps of paper. Silver and gold have value because people think they do.
It somehow never occurred to me that coins could be rectangular. It's ridiculous, but I find the idea a little unnerving - like finding a cubic apple or hexagonal bird.
actually i liked the idea of other forms of coin.
whould love if i get
somthing like this:
circular smal 1¢
smal square 5¢
small square witl a hole 10¢
circular with a hole 25¢
circular normal 50¢
rectangular coin1$
___________________________________________
this product is meant for collectors so don't be upset by don't have money or don t wanting to pay $ 150+ for it .
I ll not have it . i want it . but i m ok with this
I thought they would be some kind of official coins to use within the game (as someone asked in the last Comic-Con), but I don't know what is this for.
Precious metals have no more intrinsic value than scraps of paper. Silver and gold have value because people think they do.
Your computer (and entire life) would be gone without both gold and silver. Oops.
Paper "money" literally grows on trees in an unlimited fasion. Silver and gold are formed in the center of supernova explosions, and nowhere else.
Do a bit of reading, you'll be amazed.
Krark gives this a thumb's DOWN. Then casts Mana Clash.
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that's not what happened at all. kamahl stabbed phage, akroma, and some old lady and they became korona. then korona got stabbed by her "prophets" and kamahl got drunk with a mutant centaur
Next, I want to say that I've been aware of a LARGE crossover between Magic and precious metals for years now. I myself am quite the precious metals advocate, researcher, and more. I'm not quite ready to reveal to what extent, but I do intend to at some point. I think people who know me will be quite interested/shocked when that happens.
Elf, I wasnt the least bit interested in these Jace coins until I read your post. Now I gotta say my interest is piqued a little.
Can you elaborate a bit more on the crossover you refer to? Or was that the main point of your previous post?
Your computer (and entire life) would be gone without both gold and silver. Oops.
Do a bit of reading, you'll be amazed.
And civilization wouldn't exist in any recognizable form without paper. So what?
Of all the materials with practical applications in modern civilization, what makes precious metals special?
Paper "money" literally grows on trees in an unlimited fasion. Silver and gold are formed in the center of supernova explosions, and nowhere else.
Essentially having a limited supply does not give something intrinsic value. If it did, the Reserve List would give all the cards on it intrinsic value.
Elf, I wasnt the least bit interested in these Jace coins until I read your post. Now I gotta say my interest is piqued a little.
Can you elaborate a bit more on the crossover you refer to? Or was that the main point of your previous post?
I'd be happy to discuss or answer any questions people have on the topic of precious metals. Not prepared to go into the details of my involvement at the moment, other than to say I've been researching this for several years now, and teaching it to others for a few. At some point I plan to "merge" rancored_elf with that other side of me, but not right now. As for the crossover, I was referring to just how many silver (and gold) advocates/stackers/buyers/collectors/etc are into Magic, and how many Magic players are into precious metals. In my other adventures, many times the topic of Magic has come up, and I've always bit my tongue... but this is the first time gold/silver have come into the Magic world. It has fascinated me (as someone heavily into both sides) for years now, and I could probably talk about it for days. The parallels (and perpendiculars) between Magic and PMs are astounding. One could write a book. Perhaps I will.
Of particular interest, especially for the topic of this thread, are the concepts of supply & demand, and the concept of fiat value versus intrinsic value. Boring crap for a lot of people, but I bet you anyone who, like myself, is well versed in Magic as well as PMs would just gobble this stuff up.
I'm quite involved in the Magic secondary market, so this stuff comes up a lot in the Market Street forum that I frequent. Investing is another common thread between these two worlds.
I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, so if I do, sorry. I really don't know much about anything.... except these two topics. Perfect intersection of things I'm interested/knowledgeable in.
You stated that gold and silver have no more intrinsic value than paper, that's what.
Paper grows on trees. Gold and silver come from supernovae (the next in our part of the universe is billions of years from now).
What gives something value to humans is two things. Usefulness and scarcity. The more of each, the more value.
Air is very useful to us, but not scarce. So you can't bottle air and make much of a profit.
Aardvark toenails aren't very useful, but they're scarce. Not much value.
Paper is very useful, but not scarce. Not much value.
Gold is moderately useful, and very scarce. Huge value.
Silver is incredibly useful, and moderately scarce. Lots of value (but not as much as gold currently).
Here is a cool video with some good knowledge. Episode 4 is also amazing, but the whole series (5 so far) is excellent.
As an owner of a chain of gold/silver/diamond buying stores in Cali I would say skip this. Its actual worth is about 20$ and if you wanted to sell it at a shop of mine or any other store that buys precious metals you would be offered about 10$. Now if they limit these to 50 then it will have some value more then the 20$ but you would have to sell it to a magic collector.
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You stated that gold and silver have no more intrinsic value than paper, that's what.
Paper grows on trees. Gold and silver come from supernovae (the next in our part of the universe is billions of years from now).
What gives something value to humans is two things. Usefulness and scarcity. The more of each, the more value.
Air is very useful to us, but not scarce. So you can't bottle air and make much of a profit.
Aardvark toenails aren't very useful, but they're scarce. Not much value.
Paper is very useful, not not scarce. Not much value.
Gold is moderately useful, and very scarce. Huge value.
Silver is incredibly useful, and moderately scarce. Lots of value (but not as much as gold currently).
Here is a cool video with some good knowledge. Episode 4 is also amazing, but the whole series (5 so far) is excellent.
Not to be a total butt, but you missed something very key against your arguement.
Water very very useful, in a huge abundance, and sold in a bottle to people. for large profits for something that's free
So what's your views on this angle as I'm intrigued with what you've said so far.
You stated that gold and silver have no more intrinsic value than paper, that's what.
Paper grows on trees. Gold and silver come from supernovae (the next in our part of the universe is billions of years from now).
What gives something value to humans is two things. Usefulness and scarcity. The more of each, the more value.
Air is very useful to us, but not scarce. So you can't bottle air and make much of a profit.
Aardvark toenails aren't very useful, but they're scarce. Not much value.
Paper is very useful, not not scarce. Not much value.
Gold is moderately useful, and very scarce. Huge value.
Silver is incredibly useful, and moderately scarce. Lots of value (but not as much as gold currently).
Here is a cool video with some good knowledge. Episode 4 is also amazing, but the whole series (5 so far) is excellent.
There are two main flaws in your logic.
First, by your definition Mtg cards (some of them) have intrinsic value. They are useful — I can use them to win a tournament. And they are scarce, especially the ones of the Reserved list. This is not simply a case of fiat value — WoTC has made no declaration that Tarmogoyf is to be worth more than Steamflogger Boss. 'goyf is worth more because of what you can do with it.
Second, while you are right that gold and silver are useful, that is not where they get most of their value. They had value long before people discovered their practical uses. And consider the big increase in the price of gold over the past decade. It's not because suddenly gold has become more useful. Rather, most of their value simply comes from people considering them to have value.
Would you care to elaborate how a physical, silver coin has any relation to digital currency?
Also, if the $100 pricetag is true, I find it extremely humorous that a Jace on cardboard is worth more than one on silver.
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Now it's simply JTMS being advertisement for a regular sheet of silver.
Had they molded JTMS and mass-produced it, at least they could attempt to take over the silver market with JTMS.
Very interesting development. I've got a lot to say about it, and I've only just glanced at the announcement.
First off, silver is real money. Gold is real money. Dollars are NOT money - they're currency. Money is something that has all the properties of currency plus one more: it is a store of intrinsic (contained within) value. Silver and gold have been money since the beginning of recorded time. Dollars (and other fiat - or "by decree" - currencies) are just receipts printed on paper (or computer screens) for the real thing, which is precious metal. Most people don't know that, and for good reason. If we realized that, the entire economy would collapse overnight. Faith in the dollar is the only thing keeping it from having value. It isn't backed by anything, like it was until 1971 when Nixon took the world off the gold standard. If you're skeptical about what I'm saying, please, run a few searches.
Next, I want to say that I've been aware of a LARGE crossover between Magic and precious metals for years now. I myself am quite the precious metals advocate, researcher, and more. I'm not quite ready to reveal to what extent, but I do intend to at some point. I think people who know me will be quite interested/shocked when that happens.
Heheh. Well, coins have been almost any shape you can think of, including rectangular. What makes something a coin is that it's a small physical object and has a face value (in this case, 2 New Zealand dollars) stamped on it. Some coins are just currency (some have been made out of plastic, wood, steel, or other materials with little/no intrinsic value) but many (especially pre 2000) were made from metals with value, like copper, nickel, silver, and gold. Those are coins that are not just currency, but also money.
Bitcoin's craze is going to be THIS year.
But no, I don't think this has anything to do with bitcoin. They're milking the fact that many Magic players are also silver stackers. Bitcoin is a currency with no physical form. This is money with a physical form.
If it's got a face value on it, it's a coin. And it does.
Yes, definitely overpriced. Silver's currently at $20 per troy ounce, and this is a troy ounce, so there's $20 worth of silver in there. Most coins like it have a small "premium" (cost above the spot price of the metal contained), which covers the cost of minting it. 1oz .999 Silver Eagle coins (the US bullion coin) tend to have a premium of about $2. You can get them for $22.50 or so. Canadian Maples are slightly higher quality and have a premium of $3 or $4. Very few 1oz silver coins sell for much more than $5 or maybe $10 over spot price, unless they're incredibly low mintage (like 1000), or very rare.
But then, there are collectibles. With a limited print run, and some rabid fanboys out there, a mint can charge whatever the market will bear, regardless of the cost of the metal. So even if these are overpriced at $100, there's a chance that they'll be worth even more once the mint stops minting them, assuming there's still demand. It might be an investment to look into. Primary factor though will be how many they're making. If they mint more than demanded, they could end up in the "bulk silver coin" bin at your local coin shop or bullion dealer, along with all kinds of other coins and rounds that were minted in large quantity. Generally, they sell for less than $1 over the spot price of the metal contained. You can get 1oz silver rounds (or rectangles lol) just like this one (but obviously not with Jace on them) for $21 currently.
Now, regarding the colorization. Many stackers including myself won't touch colorized metal. Hides the beauty of the metal, and besides, it just looks campy and cheezy. That factor combined with the price tag means I won't get any, but if they were cheaper (or not colorized) I'd be interested.
As is, I'm still VERY interested due to the fact that this is silver bullion and Magic, meeting at last.
LOL! Yup. Paper rectangles with certain ink patterns on them can be worth $100 and up..... make it out of an ounce of real money and they're the same price?!
It has always fascinated me how Magic cards are essentially just currency. Created the same way - my putting ink on peices of paper. Magic cards are fiat, they're only worth something because supply and demand says so. If a Chinese company starts printing Magic cards that look realistic, every Magic card out there is suddenly worth 5 cents. If Wizards cares about the secondary market (and they say they don't), they'd better find a way to stop that.
Perhaps every Magic card will be printed on a thin sheet of silver from now on? Mythics out of gold? Perhaps $1 worth of silver for uncommons and rares, and $5 worth of gold for mythics.... heheeh kidding of course. But interesting thought experiment.
.
yeah this silver stuff is for chumps.
Precious metals have no more intrinsic value than scraps of paper. Silver and gold have value because people think they do.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
actually i liked the idea of other forms of coin.
whould love if i get
somthing like this:
circular smal 1¢
smal square 5¢
small square witl a hole 10¢
circular with a hole 25¢
circular normal 50¢
rectangular coin1$
___________________________________________
this product is meant for collectors so don't be upset by don't have money or don t wanting to pay $ 150+ for it .
I ll not have it . i want it . but i m ok with this
Conductivity and electrical resistivity.
The actual practical value of precious metals is really small compared with the value they gain because people think they have value.
Besides, paper has practical uses too, so that still doesn't explain how precious metals somehow have intrinsic value while paper doesn't.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Your computer (and entire life) would be gone without both gold and silver. Oops.
Paper "money" literally grows on trees in an unlimited fasion. Silver and gold are formed in the center of supernova explosions, and nowhere else.
Do a bit of reading, you'll be amazed.
.
Elf, I wasnt the least bit interested in these Jace coins until I read your post. Now I gotta say my interest is piqued a little.
Can you elaborate a bit more on the crossover you refer to? Or was that the main point of your previous post?
And civilization wouldn't exist in any recognizable form without paper. So what?
Of all the materials with practical applications in modern civilization, what makes precious metals special?
Essentially having a limited supply does not give something intrinsic value. If it did, the Reserve List would give all the cards on it intrinsic value.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
I'd be happy to discuss or answer any questions people have on the topic of precious metals. Not prepared to go into the details of my involvement at the moment, other than to say I've been researching this for several years now, and teaching it to others for a few. At some point I plan to "merge" rancored_elf with that other side of me, but not right now. As for the crossover, I was referring to just how many silver (and gold) advocates/stackers/buyers/collectors/etc are into Magic, and how many Magic players are into precious metals. In my other adventures, many times the topic of Magic has come up, and I've always bit my tongue... but this is the first time gold/silver have come into the Magic world. It has fascinated me (as someone heavily into both sides) for years now, and I could probably talk about it for days. The parallels (and perpendiculars) between Magic and PMs are astounding. One could write a book. Perhaps I will.
Of particular interest, especially for the topic of this thread, are the concepts of supply & demand, and the concept of fiat value versus intrinsic value. Boring crap for a lot of people, but I bet you anyone who, like myself, is well versed in Magic as well as PMs would just gobble this stuff up.
I'm quite involved in the Magic secondary market, so this stuff comes up a lot in the Market Street forum that I frequent. Investing is another common thread between these two worlds.
I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, so if I do, sorry. I really don't know much about anything.... except these two topics. Perfect intersection of things I'm interested/knowledgeable in.
You stated that gold and silver have no more intrinsic value than paper, that's what.
Paper grows on trees. Gold and silver come from supernovae (the next in our part of the universe is billions of years from now).
What gives something value to humans is two things. Usefulness and scarcity. The more of each, the more value.
Air is very useful to us, but not scarce. So you can't bottle air and make much of a profit.
Aardvark toenails aren't very useful, but they're scarce. Not much value.
Paper is very useful, but not scarce. Not much value.
Gold is moderately useful, and very scarce. Huge value.
Silver is incredibly useful, and moderately scarce. Lots of value (but not as much as gold currently).
Here is a cool video with some good knowledge. Episode 4 is also amazing, but the whole series (5 so far) is excellent.
.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
1043 W Collins Ave
Orange, Ca 92867
Not to be a total butt, but you missed something very key against your arguement.
Water very very useful, in a huge abundance, and sold in a bottle to people. for large profits for something that's free
So what's your views on this angle as I'm intrigued with what you've said so far.
There are two main flaws in your logic.
First, by your definition Mtg cards (some of them) have intrinsic value. They are useful — I can use them to win a tournament. And they are scarce, especially the ones of the Reserved list. This is not simply a case of fiat value — WoTC has made no declaration that Tarmogoyf is to be worth more than Steamflogger Boss. 'goyf is worth more because of what you can do with it.
Second, while you are right that gold and silver are useful, that is not where they get most of their value. They had value long before people discovered their practical uses. And consider the big increase in the price of gold over the past decade. It's not because suddenly gold has become more useful. Rather, most of their value simply comes from people considering them to have value.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1988614295/worlds-finest-mtg-pewter-life-spinner-is-about-to?ref=category
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=16581
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH_UXXKRzlM
Pay 8x market value on silver to have jace printed on it and it's "collectible". Really, do not buy this piece of junk.