"If fetch lands are reprinted I really believe they will be in allied colors (aka Onslaught fetches). If the fetch lands are reprinted you better believe that we'll all be fetching up basics. This would lead me to believe that the set after THS may have a reprint as the temples can't be fetched but it's pure speculation." - posted 03/22/2014 proved correct during Khans spoiler season.
"The set releases for fall 2015 (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and fall 2016 (Lock, Stock and Barrel). One or both of those 2 blocks (I'm betting) are going to contain either Fetch reprints or (more likely) Filter reprints. Filter lands still need a reprint. They are getting pretty high up there and it's been longer than ZEN so it makes a little more sense that Filter lands would see print earlier that fetches." - posted 03/22/2014 proved incorrect about filters coming earlier than fetches, still pending on filters in Origins block.
If it truly is like this then they need to make permanents for (G/W)(G/B)(U/R) etc... etc.. or the other gods will be garbage. So far just Phenax is going to get the "one card enabler" which is totally busted in my opinion.
I'm sticking with the either/or and when they release deets I'll either eat it like a man or (politely) revel in the glory.
We can't really assume too much about the relative power levels of the new gods, since we know next to nothing about them at this point. That having been said, you should bear in mind that not all cards in a cycle are created equal. Maybe Iroas and Phenax will be broken as hell, or perhaps it'll be the other way around. Every one of them could be horrible for all we know - but we don't know, not just yet.
We can't really assume too much about the relative power levels of the new gods, since we know next to nothing about them at this point. That having been said, you should bear in mind that not all cards in a cycle are created equal. Maybe Iroas and Phenax will be broken as hell, or perhaps it'll be the other way around. Every one of them could be horrible for all we know - but we don't know, not just yet.
As at least half (or more) of the mythic rare's in the set. You know one of them is going to be good at least...
"If fetch lands are reprinted I really believe they will be in allied colors (aka Onslaught fetches). If the fetch lands are reprinted you better believe that we'll all be fetching up basics. This would lead me to believe that the set after THS may have a reprint as the temples can't be fetched but it's pure speculation." - posted 03/22/2014 proved correct during Khans spoiler season.
"The set releases for fall 2015 (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and fall 2016 (Lock, Stock and Barrel). One or both of those 2 blocks (I'm betting) are going to contain either Fetch reprints or (more likely) Filter reprints. Filter lands still need a reprint. They are getting pretty high up there and it's been longer than ZEN so it makes a little more sense that Filter lands would see print earlier that fetches." - posted 03/22/2014 proved incorrect about filters coming earlier than fetches, still pending on filters in Origins block.
As at least half (or more) of the mythic rare's in the set. You know one of them is going to be good at least...
Good? Maybe. Probably, even. Competitive? Who knows, but that seems to be the major concern here. How many of the last set of gods do you see posting top 8 results at events, and in what numbers?
From the Comprehensive Rules:
700.5. A player's devotion to [color] is equal to the number of mana symbols of that color among the mana costs of permanents that player controls.
Devotion only cares about symbols. Boros Reckoner has three red symbols and three white symbols. Nightveil Specter has three blue and three black. Why is there any debate about this?
Devotion only cares about symbols. Boros Reckoner has three red symbols and three white symbols. Nightveil Specter has three blue and three black. Why is there any debate about this?
Dont know.
Do you guys think they would have bumped up the threshold to 7 if that would not be the case?
Devotion only cares about symbols. Boros Reckoner has three red symbols and three white symbols. Nightveil Specter has three blue and three black. Why is there any debate about this?
My prediction is that there will be a ruling about it. I would be surprised if they made it count for both, as that would likely be pretty OP. But, who knows, they make mistakes.
Devotion only cares about symbols. Boros Reckoner has three red symbols and three white symbols. Nightveil Specter has three blue and three black. Why is there any debate about this?
The thing is, Boros Reckoner doesn't have three red symbols and three white symbols, it has three red and white symbols.
A player's devotion to [color] is equal to the number of mana symbols of that color among the mana costs of permanents that player controls.
In other words: "A player's devotion to [blue and black] is equal to the number of mana symbols of those colors among the mana costs of permanents that player controls". Is a mana symbol of those colors? Of course it is! Is a mana symbol of those colors? Why yes, it is. Is two mana symbols of those colors? Uh... No, it's one mana symbol... Duh?
Shouldnt it be pretty obvious as well that ruling it any other way would be unbalanced as heck?
To everyone in denial about how Hybrid counts-
Why else would they up the devotion requirement so much?
Sure, they add one more to their own devotion,
but they would be very difficult to "turn on" *without* Hybrids.
Xenagos is going to make for one lame Party God if he has trouble getting aroused
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
To everyone in denial about how Hybrid counts-
Why else would they up the devotion requirement so much?
Sure, they add one more to their own devotion,
but they would be very difficult to "turn on" *without* Hybrids.
Very simple:
1: As a gold card they already count for 2 devotion themselves, instead of 1 as with the mono-colored gods.
2: Devotion to one color is (way) more restrictive that devotion to two colors. You can play all the sexy gold cards instead of the hybrid cards (hmm... Detention Sphere counts for 2 devotion!).
So, 7 devotion to blue and/or black on a :?mana::symu::symb: card is much easier to achieve than 5 devotion on a :?mana::symu: card.
Edit: Or, to stay with your Xenagos... Domri Rade and Xenagos the planeswalker both count for 2 devotion towards getting Xenagos the god online
If Xenagos the god is anywhere near playable in constructed expect Burning-Tree Emissary to be even more devastating.
I hope that Phenax is the card draw god. Perhaps it's the one that was hinted at in the Little Tidbit thread.
If that is phenax we will only know on spoilers cause the op don't said anything since he made the thread
Nightveil Specter + Phenax seems fun. 8 devotion to blue/black right there (3 black and 3 blue from specter, and either 1 black and 1 blue from a hybrid mana symbol on a hybrid phenax or from each colored symbol on a gold phenax)
I'm doubtful that Phenax would be card draw since that was one of Erebos' abilities. Hmmm, U/B....who's ready for some more unplayable mill effects?
The thing is, Boros Reckoner doesn't have three red symbols and three white symbols, it has three red and white symbols.
In other words: "A player's devotion to [blue and black] is equal to the number of mana symbols of those colors among the mana costs of permanents that player controls". Is a mana symbol of those colors? Of course it is! Is a mana symbol of those colors? Why yes, it is. Is two mana symbols of those colors? Uh... No, it's one mana symbol... Duh?
Shouldnt it be pretty obvious as well that ruling it any other way would be unbalanced as heck?
Problem with that is, while you have a nightveil specter on the field you have devotion to blue of three AND devotion to black of three. It doesn't matter that it only has 3 mana symbols, it still gives you 3 devotion to 2 different colors which adds up to 6 devotion. It all depends on how the ability is worded of course, and what ruling they pass down on it, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if hybrid symbols count double with the intention that the format moves on with the fall set theme pushing the strongest of the multicolor gods aside since their best enablers are gone.
The thing is, Boros Reckoner doesn't have three red symbols and three white symbols, it has three red and white symbols.
In other words: "A player's devotion to [blue and black] is equal to the number of mana symbols of those colors among the mana costs of permanents that player controls". Is a mana symbol of those colors? Of course it is! Is a mana symbol of those colors? Why yes, it is. Is two mana symbols of those colors? Uh... No, it's one mana symbol... Duh?
Shouldnt it be pretty obvious as well that ruling it any other way would be unbalanced as heck?
Unbalanced why, because there are a handful of hybrid cards in standard? We don't even know if these gods will be any good. They could be complete garbage for all we know, rendering the whole "ZOMG 2 OP cuz hybrids" argument invalid.
That having been said, you're still off base on your interpretation, considering how transparent the rules are. Hybrid symbols, for the purposes of devotion, are both colors, meaning that they do, in fact, count as two different mana. It's a semantic distinction, but there's an obvious plurality. If that doesn't make it obvious for you, consider how and when the mana symbols are counted. By all appearances, the new god, Phenax, will count each instance of blue symbols separately from each instance of black symbols. How many blue symbols does it see when calculating blue devotion if there's a Nightveil Specter in play? Three. Then, how many black symbols does it see? Three. We already have precedence for this with the current set of gods. Assuming you have all three in play, a Boros Reckoner will count towards three devotion for Heliod and three for Purphoros - six simultaneous devotion from a single hybrid card, but split amongst two different gods.
I wonder if this makes Rubblebelt Raiders playable. It likely still costs too much for what it does (nothing) but there's a chance. Time to go pick up 100 on MODO for $2.
I wonder if this makes Rubblebelt Raiders playable. It likely still costs too much for what it does (nothing) but there's a chance. Time to go pick up 100 on MODO for $2.
Xenagos, the PW, puts hasty tokens into play. What if Xenagos, the god, has a triggered ability that puts hasty tokens into play? That would be a fair amount of synergy. Perhaps something along the lines of:
Other creatures you control have haste. Whenever you cast a red or green creature spell, put a 1/1 Satyr token into play.
Xenagos, the PW, puts hasty tokens into play. What if Xenagos, the god, has a triggered ability that puts hasty tokens into play? That would be a fair amount of synergy.
Definitely. I figure it's the only card with hybrid mana that currently doesn't see any play but has a chance to do so. Are we positive that hybrid mana is going to count twice when applicable?
Definitely. I figure it's the only card with hybrid mana that currently doesn't see any play but has a chance to do so. Are we positive that hybrid mana is going to count twice when applicable?
We're not even certain about the hints, given the moderator caveat. If, however, the devotion text on the new gods is the same as the old ones, there's really no other way to interpret it. Maybe we'll find out for certain tomorrow night.
I can't believe people think that the hybrid symbols will count twice. Unless the god's have a power of 3 or lower when they become creatures, there's no way they're going to let that slip through the cracks.
I can't believe people think that the hybrid symbols will count twice. Unless the god's have a power of 3 or lower when they become creatures, there's no way they're going to let that slip through the cracks.
They might very well have that low a power. Again, we just don't know much right now.
Please, read what I posted above. Hybrid mana already counts twice with the way devotion currently works, there's no reason why the mechanic should suddenly change.
They might very well have that low a power. Again, we just don't know much right now.
Please, read what I posted above. Hybrid mana already counts twice with the way devotion currently works, there's no reason why the mechanic should suddenly change.
Until we get the precise wording on the cards there is no point even speculating. There are two ways for it to be worded. One supports hybrid counting twice, one does not.
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This... I want to build a good deck, not run Nightveil Specter, Cloudfin Raptor, Judge's Familiar and a slew of others.
Also if this is true then we'd better go bank the cards with a high devotion enabler before they go the way of MoW and Thassa.
"The set releases for fall 2015 (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and fall 2016 (Lock, Stock and Barrel). One or both of those 2 blocks (I'm betting) are going to contain either Fetch reprints or (more likely) Filter reprints. Filter lands still need a reprint. They are getting pretty high up there and it's been longer than ZEN so it makes a little more sense that Filter lands would see print earlier that fetches." - posted 03/22/2014 proved incorrect about filters coming earlier than fetches, still pending on filters in Origins block.
We can't really assume too much about the relative power levels of the new gods, since we know next to nothing about them at this point. That having been said, you should bear in mind that not all cards in a cycle are created equal. Maybe Iroas and Phenax will be broken as hell, or perhaps it'll be the other way around. Every one of them could be horrible for all we know - but we don't know, not just yet.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I bet Phenax is 5 mana.
Guarantee it that Hybrid mana only counts for one other the other, not 2.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
As at least half (or more) of the mythic rare's in the set. You know one of them is going to be good at least...
"The set releases for fall 2015 (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and fall 2016 (Lock, Stock and Barrel). One or both of those 2 blocks (I'm betting) are going to contain either Fetch reprints or (more likely) Filter reprints. Filter lands still need a reprint. They are getting pretty high up there and it's been longer than ZEN so it makes a little more sense that Filter lands would see print earlier that fetches." - posted 03/22/2014 proved incorrect about filters coming earlier than fetches, still pending on filters in Origins block.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
Why are you bringing CMC into the conversation again? Please re-read the devotion mechanic.
Good? Maybe. Probably, even. Competitive? Who knows, but that seems to be the major concern here. How many of the last set of gods do you see posting top 8 results at events, and in what numbers?
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Devotion only cares about symbols. Boros Reckoner has three red symbols and three white symbols. Nightveil Specter has three blue and three black. Why is there any debate about this?
Dont know.
Do you guys think they would have bumped up the threshold to 7 if that would not be the case?
My prediction is that there will be a ruling about it. I would be surprised if they made it count for both, as that would likely be pretty OP. But, who knows, they make mistakes.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
The thing is, Boros Reckoner doesn't have three red symbols and three white symbols, it has three red and white symbols.
In other words: "A player's devotion to [blue and black] is equal to the number of mana symbols of those colors among the mana costs of permanents that player controls". Is a mana symbol of those colors? Of course it is! Is a mana symbol of those colors? Why yes, it is. Is two mana symbols of those colors? Uh... No, it's one mana symbol... Duh?
Shouldnt it be pretty obvious as well that ruling it any other way would be unbalanced as heck?
Why else would they up the devotion requirement so much?
Sure, they add one more to their own devotion,
but they would be very difficult to "turn on" *without* Hybrids.
Xenagos is going to make for one lame Party God if he has trouble getting aroused
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Very simple:
1: As a gold card they already count for 2 devotion themselves, instead of 1 as with the mono-colored gods.
2: Devotion to one color is (way) more restrictive that devotion to two colors. You can play all the sexy gold cards instead of the hybrid cards (hmm... Detention Sphere counts for 2 devotion!).
So, 7 devotion to blue and/or black on a :?mana::symu::symb: card is much easier to achieve than 5 devotion on a :?mana::symu: card.
Edit: Or, to stay with your Xenagos... Domri Rade and Xenagos the planeswalker both count for 2 devotion towards getting Xenagos the god online
If that is phenax we will only know on spoilers cause the op don't said anything since he made the thread
I'm doubtful that Phenax would be card draw since that was one of Erebos' abilities. Hmmm, U/B....who's ready for some more unplayable mill effects?
Problem with that is, while you have a nightveil specter on the field you have devotion to blue of three AND devotion to black of three. It doesn't matter that it only has 3 mana symbols, it still gives you 3 devotion to 2 different colors which adds up to 6 devotion. It all depends on how the ability is worded of course, and what ruling they pass down on it, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if hybrid symbols count double with the intention that the format moves on with the fall set theme pushing the strongest of the multicolor gods aside since their best enablers are gone.
Unbalanced why, because there are a handful of hybrid cards in standard? We don't even know if these gods will be any good. They could be complete garbage for all we know, rendering the whole "ZOMG 2 OP cuz hybrids" argument invalid.
That having been said, you're still off base on your interpretation, considering how transparent the rules are. Hybrid symbols, for the purposes of devotion, are both colors, meaning that they do, in fact, count as two different mana. It's a semantic distinction, but there's an obvious plurality. If that doesn't make it obvious for you, consider how and when the mana symbols are counted. By all appearances, the new god, Phenax, will count each instance of blue symbols separately from each instance of black symbols. How many blue symbols does it see when calculating blue devotion if there's a Nightveil Specter in play? Three. Then, how many black symbols does it see? Three. We already have precedence for this with the current set of gods. Assuming you have all three in play, a Boros Reckoner will count towards three devotion for Heliod and three for Purphoros - six simultaneous devotion from a single hybrid card, but split amongst two different gods.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Xenagos, the PW, puts hasty tokens into play. What if Xenagos, the god, has a triggered ability that puts hasty tokens into play? That would be a fair amount of synergy. Perhaps something along the lines of:
Other creatures you control have haste. Whenever you cast a red or green creature spell, put a 1/1 Satyr token into play.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Definitely. I figure it's the only card with hybrid mana that currently doesn't see any play but has a chance to do so. Are we positive that hybrid mana is going to count twice when applicable?
We're not even certain about the hints, given the moderator caveat. If, however, the devotion text on the new gods is the same as the old ones, there's really no other way to interpret it. Maybe we'll find out for certain tomorrow night.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
They might very well have that low a power. Again, we just don't know much right now.
Please, read what I posted above. Hybrid mana already counts twice with the way devotion currently works, there's no reason why the mechanic should suddenly change.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Until we get the precise wording on the cards there is no point even speculating. There are two ways for it to be worded. One supports hybrid counting twice, one does not.